Got an i167 working, then it stopped.

[miginage]

I picked up an i167 from 2003 in perfect condition (probably saw 25 miles in its life) but the owner couldn't get it working. It had the typical red flashing light with a wrench. I swapped the batteries, unplugged/replugged the cables at the cs assembly, charged it over night and it was running. It has the NiMH batteries and when tested each side of both battery shows over 40v. After I got it running, I tried to drain the battery completely by taking a few short trips and leaving it powered on, but the battery wouldn't drain.

So of course I take it to a parking garage and start ripping around at 13mph. After about 10 minutes of this, it shows an error code and I can't get it to turn on again. Back to the flashing red with a wrench. I can't find the exact error code I saw when riding on it in the manual that has been uploaded here. It was either red/orange with a frowning face and then to the left, two verticle bars that would alternate back and forth. The charger and batteries seem to be working just fine.

I pulled the shaft out from the handlebars and noticed the coiled wires had become shredded due to age I assume, so there were exposed foil wrapped wires. I thought maybe this was shorting it out so I taped them up. I didn't do a full repair, just where it looked bad, so maybe there is still a short in there. Retaping the wires in full may be my next step, but I thought I would ask here first. Thanks for all your help.

[bottleworks]

For checking out what's going on with the batteries, check out:

https://github.com/martinbogo/i2-battery-diagnostics
https://github.com/martinbogo/i2-bat...stics/issues/5

At this point, risk of corrosion for the BMS in older LifePo4 batteries is very real. For the even older NiMH batteries, I would be amazed if there is no damage.
Do you have a set of known good batteries or any thing else?

[miginage]

Thanks for the links. The arduino is a bit over my head, but I'll look into it. I'm still thinking this is not a battery problem however. The NiMH batteries have two 36v packs on each side of both batteries. I'm reading each side of them at over 40v and they hold a strong charge. I've read the Canlas trickle charge method that was uploaded here, but the batteries are fully charged (I believe) and I don't believe there would be any room for more charge. Where it states the batteries wont charge if they dip under 42v it is referring to the lithium packs. But the NiMH have two sides of 36v each and again, they are reading at over 40v per side. I think it's more wires or something on the board, but I'm very new to this.

[mattk]

Congrats on picking up the OG machine.

The frayed cables sitting in the control shaft base is a very common problem, it is due to the wires getting pinched when folks slide the control shaft down. At one point Segway started to address this issue with more robust connectors, but that was not until maybe 2005? You can see the more robust connectors in this photo- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Segway-HT-i...oAAOSwfvRfHaC3

Anyway, this is almost certainly your issue. My recommendation would be to buy a new set of CS wires that fit your machine if you can find them. They might be super hard to find at this point because many of them became broken and were replaced by the new design.

If you have the cash your best bet may be to buy a used handlebar and matching control shaft base.

Handlebar - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Segway-HT-i...oAAOSwfvRfHaC3

Control Shaft Base: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Segway-HT-i...QAAOSwF8JfHZW6

[miginage]

Thanks for the thought on the new connectors/handlebars/base. I just pulled all of the old shredded rubber off the wires and electrical taped all parts of the wires fresh. Then secured everything together with zip ties. I'm very certain the foil covered wires are no longer exposed. I'm still getting the blinking red wrench.

I haven't pulled the control shaft base yet to see how those wires look, but given that they are in a stable part, I'm doubting much fraying would be going on. Any thoughts on other places to check wires? Or maybe look at the motherboard at this point? Or maybe it is a battery problem after all, but like I mentioned it was running well and holding a strong charge.

[dgbint]

Originally Posted by miginage

I'm still getting the blinking red wrench.

Sorry to be the bearer of sad news.

As I understand it;

1
If the mesh of those cables touches the inside of the tube, the Segway registers this as a serious error.

2
The Segway will remember this serious error.
It will not start again until the 'error latch' is cleared.
Simply removing the cause of the error, will not clear that 'error latch'.

3
It used to be a simple matter to clear that 'error latch'.
Most dealers could do it.
However Segway in their wisdom discontinued support of Gen-1 machines, thus it is no long easy to clear that 'error latch'.

4
I am unaware of any to assist you.
Sadly.

Michael

[miginage]

I was considering it would be along these lines of a 'critical error'. Some code built into it to self protect. But if the dealers were able to fix this 'error latch' at some point, there must be a solution, no? Somebody must know. I'm thinking that maybe there is a battery on the motherboard that could be pulled off to release memory of the error mentality. I did notice the other day, which I noticed just before I got it working again, is that when I put the key in, it just beeped once, no display on the circular readout. It did that for a few key prints, and went back to the wrench. It's almost as if it is a software problem.

[bottleworks]

Originally Posted by miginage

It had the typical red flashing light with a wrench.

I've sent you a PM of the contact into for a person who I believe can reset your machine. Good luck and please let me know if there is success.

[miginage]

I may try the NiMH battery swap first. Given the packs are 17 years old and seems to have never been used much, they likely are drained. Eventhough they test at 40v per side with a multimeter, and it did somehow turn on at one point recently for a few days.

Just for others' future reference, when plugged in for days and charging, I would get the red wrench when the keys were introduced. When I pulled the charging cable, it immediately went to a single beep with no display readout. When I plug in the charging cable, unplug/plug the stem cables, it goes red wrench again.

Anybody in Chicago with working NiMH packs for a i167?

[Philip]

I've attached a jpg from a Segway HT service manual that shows 4 of the error displays in conjunction with the Wrench symbol.

Is your i167 telling you that you have a Platform Fault, an Unknown Fault, or a Front/Rear Battery Fault?

If the problem is an Unknown Fault then it is one of the following possibilities, and you can track it down and resolve it by swapping on known-good parts:

(a) a faulty Handlebar
(b) faulty Handlebar cables between the handlebar and yellow & black plugs, or faulty plugs
(c) faulty CSB
(d) faulty cables cables or plugs (yellow and black) rising up out of the CSB
(e) faulty battery pack(s) - where the fault is of a different type than indicated in the attached file

If it is an Unknown Fault then this is good news. It means that your PowerBase (i.e. platform) is still OK, and all you need to do is swap on the appropriate known-good part(s) to make your i167 fully operational again.

If it is a Platform Fault then I am sorry to say the news is not good. Your i167 probably encountered a fault that it has determined is sufficiently serious that the device needs to be serviced by a Technician, as was the philosophy in the early-2000's. We called this a "latch fault" in that the unit won't start until the fault logs are cleared. If there is someone out there who can "unlatch" your PowerBase then you have a chance of fixing it (depending on the cause of the fault or upon what component is faulty).

I no longer have the ability to unlatch Gen 1 PowerBases, and do not know how it can be done anymore. But I'd be interested in finding out!

My guess is that when you were riding hard on weak battery packs this caused a condition that was logged as a "latch fault". Did it happen when you hit a big bump, putting the machine under heavy load? I remember this happening to me back in the days of dodgy NiMH packs. Simply by unlatching, the machine would then work fine again (with good battery packs).

Unfortunately, on Gen 1 just about every Platform fault would cause the machine to latch. It wasn't really designed for in-field service, unfortunately. Whereas on Gen 2, a smaller percentage of faults would cause a latch, enabling certain faults to be resolved simply by swapping faulty components for good ones.

Philip