Key Copies and Custom Keys -- DIY cheap! - Page 4

GyroGo · 05-10-2003, 07:59 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by momentone

An interesting quote from HowStuffWorks.com:

Security: The Segway uses an electronic key system. The key, which looks something like a car lighter, stores a 128-bit encrypted digital code.

From a previous post by the Segway webmaster, this is not technically accurate. The keys are "encoded", not "encrypted".

. . SegCenter.com . .
StirlingInfo StirlingChat

terryp · 05-10-2003, 10:17 AM

Further word from Segway on the subject...
---
Terry,

For added clarification your warranty is not voided--this cannot damage your
machine. However, if a key malfunctions and you return it for warranty
coverage, and we discover it has been mis-programmed, we may not cover
replacement of the key under warranty. Please recognize that you are
experimenting with parameters that are not currently intended for customer
modification. You should do so with the understanding that it is at your
own risk, and that your machine may behave in ways that are not intended by
Segway engineering.

Please be careful.
---

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

pam · 05-10-2003, 12:09 PM

You know, the feeling I get from this is not a "bad boy, trying to do something we didn't design" kind of thing, but a "we care for you, please be careful" kind of thing.
Pam

terryp · 05-10-2003, 01:36 PM

Exactly, Pam. I'd summarize their comments as follows:

1) We'd prefer that you purchase duplicate keys from us so you don't risk compromising your key code.

2) If you're hoping to increase the top speed, don't waste your time.

3) If you damage a key trying to copy or reprogram it, don't expect us to replace it under warranty.

4) We haven't tried all possible combinations, so some may not be useful or safe.

5) You won't void your warranty by trying different combinations, but please be careful.

Sounds pretty fair to me.

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

lipinsky · 05-12-2003, 02:18 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by segwayowner

how do you mount the ibutton on the fob ro other holder?
doesit latter what side of the key it is?

DES: Segway owner

Only one way to do it. Small lip keeps it in place. Heating the fob with hot water expands the opening enough to make this easier.

lipinsky · 05-12-2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Jeff Allen

Several questions regarding keys:

1. Are the keys affected by magnetism? I frequently have magnets in my pockets along with my keys. (No, I'm not a total freak - I sell custom-made neodymium magnets).

2. Can you program in a slow turn without having to twist the grip at all. (I'm thinking about an exhibit where the HT spins around ever so slowly without me having to tape or jam something into the turning grip).

3. Can you disable the stick-shake limiter when going backwards? (okay, I am a total freak).

4. What does "DIY cheap" mean?

Onward!
Jeff Allen

1. Not that I have found -- and I have tested this. I did have to do a reset after trying to start after sticking a strong magnet to a key. I can't reporduce this and I am not sure that there is a causal relationship. Takes a strong magnet to get it to stick though.

2. No and yes. I can turn by leaning but that is not your question.

3. Not that I am aware and have not tried (and don't plan to). Why would you want to?

4. Answered.

Deviant · 05-12-2003, 03:30 PM

I have never heated my fobs, but merely apply pressure (and slightly bending the fob) to click the button in. I have read that heating does help if you wished to remove a button from a fob, but have yet to try that.

I read long ago that if you start up an HT with the handle grip turned, that it will think that is the "zero position," so releasing from there will cause it to think the grip is being turned.

I know many think the backwards speed limiter is set too low, but we have not seen a changeable number for that in the key codes.

Your times on ordering equipment and buttons vary tremendously. Sometimes orders can take just a week while other times it can take over a month, even if the website claims one week.

Deviant · 05-12-2003, 03:37 PM

I haven't looked at lipinsky's work on calculating the CRC16, but here's a site I used to use before writing my own program to reduce my work time.

http://www.gpfn.sk.ca/~rhg/csc8550s02/crc.html
On this website, click "CRC-16", fill in the "Final XOR value (hex)" with FFFF, and (here's the work) in the "Input data sequence" is where the stream of bytes go (all bytes from the key except the first two, which are the CRC). The "work" is that the input data sequence expects ASCII characters, so you need to precede each byte (double hex digit) with a percent sign (%), and also make sure there are no spaces in the entire string. (i.e. "B4 A3" -> "%B4%A3" , with no quotation marks of course)

In order to ensure you use the program correctly, simply use the key string from an existing key (skipping the CRC), and the program will generate the CRC which you can match with that of the key. If they are different, you missed something (CRC16, FFFF, %, no blanks).

Jeff Allen · 05-12-2003, 04:20 PM

Quote:

quote: Can you disable the stick-shake limiter when going backwards?

Not that I am aware and have not tried (and don't plan to). Why would you want to?

To be able to go a little faster when I am going backwards. A sweeping backwards turn is fun to do.

Thanks for the answers!

Onward!
Jeff Allen

lipinsky · 05-12-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Deviant

I have never heated my fobs, but merely apply pressure (and slightly bending the fob) to click the button in. I have read that heating does help if you wished to remove a button from a fob, but have yet to try that.

I read long ago that if you start up an HT with the handle grip turned, that it will think that is the "zero position," so releasing from there will cause it to think the grip is being turned.

I know many think the backwards speed limiter is set too low, but we have not seen a changeable number for that in the key codes.

Your times on ordering equipment and buttons vary tremendously. Sometimes orders can take just a week while other times it can take over a month, even if the website claims one week.

I found the heating just makes it easier -- not required.

Tried the twist and start when I first received my machine and my Segway only gives me an error message. Always runs straight no matter how I adjust the grip as I power on.

Yes, the Dallas Semi ordering system is the worst. I have had many problems with them and a very broad experience in delivery times.

05-10-2003, 10:17 AM	#32
terryp Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Kenmore, WA, USA. Posts: 2,097	Further word from Segway on the subject... --- Terry, For added clarification your warranty is not voided--this cannot damage your machine. However, if a key malfunctions and you return it for warranty coverage, and we discover it has been mis-programmed, we may not cover replacement of the key under warranty. Please recognize that you are experimenting with parameters that are not currently intended for customer modification. You should do so with the understanding that it is at your own risk, and that your machine may behave in ways that are not intended by Segway engineering. Please be careful. --- Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

05-10-2003, 12:09 PM	#33
pam Last of the Early 30 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Yelm, WA Posts: 4,679	You know, the feeling I get from this is not a "bad boy, trying to do something we didn't design" kind of thing, but a "we care for you, please be careful" kind of thing. Pam

05-10-2003, 01:36 PM	#34
terryp Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Kenmore, WA, USA. Posts: 2,097	Exactly, Pam. I'd summarize their comments as follows: 1) We'd prefer that you purchase duplicate keys from us so you don't risk compromising your key code. 2) If you're hoping to increase the top speed, don't waste your time. 3) If you damage a key trying to copy or reprogram it, don't expect us to replace it under warranty. 4) We haven't tried all possible combinations, so some may not be useful or safe. 5) You won't void your warranty by trying different combinations, but please be careful. Sounds pretty fair to me. Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

05-12-2003, 03:30 PM	#37
Deviant Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston, TX, USA. Posts: 732	I have never heated my fobs, but merely apply pressure (and slightly bending the fob) to click the button in. I have read that heating does help if you wished to remove a button from a fob, but have yet to try that. I read long ago that if you start up an HT with the handle grip turned, that it will think that is the "zero position," so releasing from there will cause it to think the grip is being turned. I know many think the backwards speed limiter is set too low, but we have not seen a changeable number for that in the key codes. Your times on ordering equipment and buttons vary tremendously. Sometimes orders can take just a week while other times it can take over a month, even if the website claims one week.

05-12-2003, 03:37 PM	#38
Deviant Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston, TX, USA. Posts: 732	I haven't looked at lipinsky's work on calculating the CRC16, but here's a site I used to use before writing my own program to reduce my work time. http://www.gpfn.sk.ca/~rhg/csc8550s02/crc.html On this website, click "CRC-16", fill in the "Final XOR value (hex)" with FFFF, and (here's the work) in the "Input data sequence" is where the stream of bytes go (all bytes from the key except the first two, which are the CRC). The "work" is that the input data sequence expects ASCII characters, so you need to precede each byte (double hex digit) with a percent sign (%), and also make sure there are no spaces in the entire string. (i.e. "B4 A3" -> "%B4%A3" , with no quotation marks of course) In order to ensure you use the program correctly, simply use the key string from an existing key (skipping the CRC), and the program will generate the CRC which you can match with that of the key. If they are different, you missed something (CRC16, FFFF, %, no blanks).

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