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Old 08-25-2013, 08:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
Bicycles are hear to stay. They are very effective means of transportation for a great many people around the world, in a great many variations.

I myself ride one regularly. I would ride more and want to, time permitting.

As to your points...
I do believe that bikes are longer than segways, but narrower. Overall footprint is bigger for a bike than segway, but not outrageously so. I had an apartment downtown Boston in my days before owning a segway, and I used to wheel it up onto its rear wheel, and balance it like that in the elevator to my room. It took more effort but I do not believe it took too too much more space than my segway. Maybe a bit. And I got more headaches from that, as I was supposed to use the freight elevator, than I get from having my segway in an elevator.

Bikes are not very stable at low speeds, but most of us can drop our feet to the ground in one manner or another to not have a problem with this. Any low speed failure against the segway is compensated for by being able to go much faster than a segway.

I agree that they are not much protection from an impact with a car. Of course, some of us can hit cars with our segways as well, so I don't see how this is much of a point. I believe that if you have a collision with a car when on your bike, you will loose. I further believe that if you have a collision with a car on your segway, you will also loose. I do not know that one is better to collide with cars with than the other.

Bicycles do not run on electricity, that is true for many, but there are also a great many electric bikes, and electric assist bikes, and more. Being on a bicycle does not exclude the use of electricity any more. However, if the point is that bikes use human propulsion instead of electric, I agree for the most part. There are advantages and sweaty disadvantages here.

To conclude they are too dangerous for NYC streets is comical, since they were there before cars, there are hundreds of thousands of them or more in NYC, and they are not likely to go away. I agree they are not designed for, nor should they ride on the sidewalk. AND there are dangers involved, as I am sure there are many collisions with the bikes every day, against cars, pedestrians, and a whole host of other objects. But then there are also collisions amongst the cars, amongst the pedestrians, and I am sure an occasional horse bumps into someone or something from time to time.

Most of your segway comments are okay by me. You post the things you like, and I will not argue against any of them, but I might have used different examples.

I personally do not think this is an us or them kind of thing. I do not see that trying to diminish the bicycle will make the segway user any more accepted. I see that they two items are different, and do some similar and some different things, and even the similar tasks are done differently. It is like trying to say an orange is better because an apple bruises easier. I see them as very different fruit, and hammering the apple does not improve the orange.
My point about a car collisions was that, if a car were to hit most parts of a Segway at low speed, it would maybe knock the rider off or even just fall over, whereas on a bicycle, it may lead to more serious injuries.

I'm not saying bicycles are bad by any means, and of course, there are also road bikes, and as you pointed out, electric bikes.

I also forgot to mention, both are exposed to the elements, and therefore may not be suited for ice or snow.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritium View Post
My point about a car collisions was that, if a car were to hit most parts of a Segway at low speed, it would maybe knock the rider off or even just fall over, whereas on a bicycle, it may lead to more serious injuries.

...
Do you have any stats or facts? Or is this just speculation based on your opinion? (If it is your opinion, that does not mean it is not accurate, I just want to know how you came to this decision)

I have many, many years on bikes, and many tens of thousands of miles on them mostly on roads. My opinion is not that a bike is any more dangerous when in a car accident, than a segway. I have no stats other than my own personal experience.

I was once hit head on by a car in the wrong travel lane (he was passing another car) and I was high enough on my Italia that I was able effectively vault over the car. I got hurt pretty bad, but head on at 50 mph (his speed and mine) and I survived it. My bike not only went thru his radiator, but into the block of his engine.

I cannot imagine that same accident being survivable on a segway.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
Do you have any stats or facts? Or is this just speculation based on your opinion? (If it is your opinion, that does not mean it is not accurate, I just want to know how you came to this decision)

I have many, many years on bikes, and many tens of thousands of miles on them mostly on roads. My opinion is not that a bike is any more dangerous when in a car accident, than a segway. I have no stats other than my own personal experience.

I was once hit head on by a car in the wrong travel lane (he was passing another car) and I was high enough on my Italia that I was able effectively vault over the car. I got hurt pretty bad, but head on at 50 mph (his speed and mine) and I survived it. My bike not only went thru his radiator, but into the block of his engine.

I cannot imagine that same accident being survivable on a segway.
You're right, it's not proven, it's just from my experience.

I've been hurt badly on both.

You're lucky to be alive, also, that's one tank of a bicycle!
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:43 PM   #14
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You're right, it's not proven, it's just from my experience.

I've been hurt badly on both.

You're lucky to be alive, also, that's one tank of a bicycle!
Actually, it was a racer, very light. Handlebar and front fork disentegrated at the head tube, and the top tube (connects head tube to seat tube) was just at the right angle to spear thru the radiator, into the water pump and into the block of the engine.

Much of the bike was simply gone, unfindable. It acted much more like a missile than a tank.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:12 AM   #15
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Another difference is that Segways don't have the oily chain, chainrings, spokes, and other sharp or pinching parts bikes have that can cause problems in an encounter with a pedestrian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritium View Post
Bicycles have these points:

1. They're large/bulky/get in the way.
2. They're not very stable at low speeds.
3. They are not protected from a car merging into you.
4. They don't run on electricity, which means you never have to recharge.


Conclusion:
They are way too dangerous on NYC streets and sidewalks, and along with being bulky and not protected, a bicycle is just too unsafe for NYC.


Segways have these points:

1.Small foorprint, can easily go through almost any doors, get through back alleys.
2. Nimble, can easily make a 180 in its own space and can swerve to avoid obstacles.
3. Speed restricted, at its max speed, the Segway PT can get up to 12.5MPH, which however is unsafe for sidewalks, but still, limited, unlike a bicycle.
Also, when they are legalised, a speed law can be set in place for a maximum of 4MPH on sidewalks.
4. Compact, no need for big space to store your PT, it takes up approximately the same space as a single stroller.
5. Safe, with added visibility to see over cars and be seen by them, the Segway PT is optimised for cities.

What would you choose?

Please feel free to add or correct any mistakes I have made.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:29 AM   #16
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Tritiom,
Your conclusions are exactly those expressed by Dean Kamen in 2002.
Later Kamen looked to Transportation Alternatives (the biggest public transit, pedestrian & bicycle advocacy group in NYC) for Segway support and was given the cold shoulder. T.A. went on to nurture the Segway unfriendly atmosphere in NYC.

Give it up. You're just shooting yourself in the foot.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
Tritiom,
Your conclusions are exactly those expressed by Dean Kamen in 2002.
Later Kamen looked to Transportation Alternatives (the biggest public transit, pedestrian & bicycle advocacy group in NYC) for Segway support and was given the cold shoulder. T.A. went on to nurture the Segway unfriendly atmosphere in NYC.

Give it up. You're just shooting yourself in the foot.
I might be doing so, however I'd rather express my opinions than keep them held within forever.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terryp View Post
Another difference is that Segways don't have the oily chain, chainrings, spokes, and other sharp or pinching parts bikes have that can cause problems in an encounter with a pedestrian.
You're right, forgot to mention that, thanks!
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:21 AM   #19
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Yes, lobbying and politics. The International Bicycle Conspiracy strikes again!

...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
Tritiom,
Your conclusions are exactly those expressed by Dean Kamen in 2002.
Later Kamen looked to Transportation Alternatives (the biggest public transit, pedestrian & bicycle advocacy group in NYC) for Segway support and was given the cold shoulder. T.A. went on to nurture the Segway unfriendly atmosphere in NYC.

Give it up. You're just shooting yourself in the foot.
JohnM,

I am surprised at you. In the first quoted post above, you were clearly making a snide remark about my saying the segway problem in NYC was political and not merit based.

In the 2nd quoted post, you admit exactly what I said. It is about territory and politics, not about the merits of the individual conveyances.

You must be slipping. You don't usually step on your own junk so quickly.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:05 AM   #20
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lilnyc,

I'll second that. The CitiBikes' racks are really big (dozens of bikes wide) and when I see them I think "why don't we have the same thing for Segways?" The racks even have charging built into them, presumably for charging the blinking headlights/taillights.

With thousands of people riding bikes in Manhattan's "lanes are just recommendations" traffic, sans helmets, Segways seem like a no-brainer alternative.

I do see people riding Segway PTs every once in a while in the city, but it makes me sad to leave mine at home

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