The devolution of Segway Chat

[Desert_Seg]

When SegwayChat was first launched it was a haven for Segway enthusiasts, a great place to gather, share ideas, share experiences, and to make new friends.

Over time it evolved into a community of like-minded individuals, individuals who regardless of their opinion of the Segway liked to discuss topics associated with this great device. It was a great place to hang out and discover ways of making your glide more enjoyable, a place to have fun, a place to learn more.

Unfortunately, it has now evolved into another phase of its lfe, one that seems to be based on one-sided viewpoints, argumentative posts, and rapidly devolving threads. It really isn't as fun as it was and the negativity that emanates from some posts is disappointing to say the least.

Many of us are guilty, even if we don't want to admit it, and I, for one, think that it really does need to stop. We either bring back the fun, whether it be the fun of pimping, the fun of gliding, the fun polo, or any other fun you can think of, or we just continue to devolve into another loss to the community.

If you look at the number of active members you will quickly see that they can now be easily identified and counted. Two years ago that wasn't the case. I'm sure some have left due to other reasons but I do know of a few (much more than a handful) who have left, or rarely post, due to the negativity on this site.

Let's try to get back to the basics, let's try to get back to being Segway Enthusiasts who can have a level multi-sided discussion about the pros and cons of having / using a Segway. To do that we need to leave the negative comments, the attacks (both public and private) and the vitriol off this board.

I don't think it is that hard to do, so let's all try to take a step up and "clean up".

Steven

[JohnG]

I don't quite see it that way. We have always had people who like to push the envelope in putting forward their point of view. As long as they do so respectfully and rationally, SC is and always has been open to all points of view on the Segway. SC has never allowed ad hominen or personal attacks and removes all such posts or threads once we become aware of them.

SC remains, and will likely always remain, the most pro-Segway community online today. No other community sports nearly as many enthusiastic owners and supporters of this technology.

But as you say, it's ultimately up to each member here to discuss issues in a way that encourages others to join in on the conversation. Some people are better than others in doing that, certainly...

John

[SEGsby]

Devolution to some, is revolution to others...

SEGsby

[KSagal]

I agree with John on this one. This site has always had spiritied debate, over and over.

I understand where Steven is comming from on this as well, but see it differently.

I have been on this site for many years, and for a long time, segways into the society were new, and segways into our own lives was new, and no one really knew that much about anything.

Because of this, people came here and other places to find out the answers to many questions that intriqued them. And there were very few places to get good information. To this day, every day, we see news reports on more topics than just segways, that are very much wrong technically, and often attitudinally. THis site provide a great service to help disburse the technical and societal new information.

All the while, there were opinionated people who also spouted off. And were spouted back at...

Now, the segway is several years old, there is a much better website at Inc. (it too has evolved in many ways) and years of other lesser sources of information that is available, not the least of which is the dealer network itself. There are now professional people out there you can ask your questions to, where years ago, they just did not exist!

SO, you take the 'new' away. And you take the lack of information away, with other sources of good information. What you mostly have left is the spouting off.

I agree that as a site, it is important to rein in some of the ad hominim attacks. But for most of us, that is an easy task to find the culprit. For most of us, that person is at our keyboards now! Like any worthwile change or evolution, the solution starts at home... If I want this site to be a 'nicer' place to visit, I have to make it so. And the next guy as well. It is more important to change ourselves than it is to propose others do it.

The big question for me is, "do I take the bait?" I have a tendency to react to the cellar dwellers who like to hit and run. My biggest challenge is to overcome that. Others may have a different challenge. It is up to each individual here to decide how much good or damage they want to inflict.

I do appreciate Steven's desire for a less acrimonious site. I just wonder if it is possible...

[Metal Whiskers]

Originally Posted by Desert_Seg

Unfortunately, it has now evolved into another phase of its lfe, one that seems to be based on one-sided viewpoints, argumentative posts, and rapidly devolving threads. It really isn't as fun as it was and the negativity that emanates from some posts is disappointing to say the least.

As a Segway outsider I will say that this forum is better behaved than most of its type although there is always room for improvement. It doesn't hurt to periodically remind people to be civil and to keep the noise down. As is common on the internet there are some snarky posts and a few "professional posters" who should restrain themselves but overall the discussions are worthwhile and informative. This forum is a valuable tool for dealing with the interesting challenges facing the Segway.

[quade]

Chat forums in general are positive feedback loops.

People with similar viewpoints tend to be attracted to sites that share their views. This has a tendency to make the site and the people it attracts more and more one sided. Eventually, sites tend to become so one sided that any normal person that wanders into it is seen as having a contrary view point.

This is among the reasons it's important to be able to express different opinions without fear of reprisal. To do otherwise is to invite, and in fact promote, extremism.

Originally Posted by Desert_Seg

... Unfortunately, it has now evolved into another phase of its lfe, one that seems to be based on one-sided viewpoints, argumentative posts, and rapidly devolving threads. It really isn't as fun as it was and the negativity that emanates from some posts is disappointing to say the least.

Many of us are guilty, even if we don't want to admit it, and I, for one, think that it really does need to stop. We either bring back the fun, whether it be the fun of pimping, the fun of gliding, the fun polo, or any other fun you can think of, or we just continue to devolve into another loss to the community.

I'm a "newcomer" to SC, with less than a year's membership. I am also a 48 year old, extremely outspoken person. I won't say I was raised so much to "question authority" as I was to recognize when something being done/said doesn't really make a lot of sense, and to question that.

Literally, from minute one, I've questioned our government's response to, and information released in re: September 11, 2001. In fact, if one wishes to search Google News, I posted an opinion piece in several UseNet Newsgroups on September 12, 2001, at roughly 9:00 AM entitled "24 Hours Later - Long, but I Needed an Outlet". No, I am not a "conspiracy" lunatic who believes our own government staged 9/11... but there were some serious questions I had, that, to date, have yet to be answered.

(If you're interested: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...68c44b13724f9d)

Steven, we have diametrically opposing thoughts on a private company's right to allow Segways in a certain situation. We always will. But that willingness to oppose is one of the basic tenets of the freedoms and liberties for which this country is renowned. And while we may, as a society, occasionally call for the censorship of opposing ideas - even those times when such censorship has been imposed, that imposition is almost always very quickly removed. In few instances has the censorship remained in place longer than a year.

But in the last decade, though primarily in the last five years, I've witnessed something I never expected to see: People, through inaction, willingly giving away those rights, obligations and privileges provided us simply for political expediency. As a consequence, there are now power brokers, at all levels of society, who believe they set the rules, period... and when questioned on authority to do so, they huff, and they puff, and they blow smoke.

Notice how none of the respondents to your "we're all being uncivil" post questioned what you were talking about? We all know why, or have our hypothesis. My guess would be you might be feeling "jumped on" concerning your pro-private business stance on allowing Segways as mobility devices.

Have their been any real "below the belt" punches thrown your way? The only one that I think could be pointed to as such is one I made, but it wasn't intended to be construed in that manner.

I was born with a bad heart, but I was also raised by two people who, literally, rammed into my brain that I shouldn't keep myself from doing (or attempting to do) anything I wanted to do, solely because other people think doing that would be unsafe for me. To not limit myself just because other people thought I was limited. And that's how I've lived my life. So I just have no experience with, and nothing to compare to, a father who would further restrict their "differently-enabled" child's already limited choices in life.

But I have yet to see anyone simply "flame", or anyone go "trolling." I've seen discussion - a mutual exchanging of ideas. If anyone, on either side of the argument, has persuaded anyone else to take a stance, then the discussion has served a purpose, and should not be stifled.

But that's just my opinion.

[Sal]

Originally Posted by Metal Whiskers

... It doesn't hurt to periodically remind people to be civil and to keep the noise down. ...

Thanks to the members civility of late as well as the work of Pam, John, and those who started this site in a manner we should all be proud of as well.

Although, sometimes... we have to step in... and even then we understand that we can't please all of the people all of the time.

-S

[RAG1247]

when this chat was first formed, the majority of early members were interested in the segway technology and most of us had very few details. then we ordered almost sight unseen from amazon and awaited. I, along with Brooster was fortunate enough to attend the first training group in New Hampshire and we were all like little kids. Nobody really knew much so there were constant questions or comments on every aspect of a segway. In the beginning there were no segway lights so many of us tried various types to see what worked best and communicated such info through segwaychat. at the first segwayfest we got to meet many of those people we had basically corresponded with and in many cases those friendships continue through today. But at some time you reach a point where there is very little new about segways. in the beginning there was little talk of how to use or where to use a segway, but dealt with just using and enjoying the segway.

I think many people continue to view segwaychat but there is little to say and at times there seems to be more discussions about religion and politics. There is more to life than segways

hopefully the segway technology will continue to evolve and maybe even new units will be offered. that will get more people involved.

there are also those who like reading their own words continuously (and like to increase their post count). Quantity is not quality!

to the future!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JohnG]

Agreed, Richard.

It's sort of the same old, same old for older owners, outside of the occasional mod or new accessory to add. For new owners (or potential owners), it becomes a great place to ask questions about the product, but at the end of the day, most questions have been asked and answered 20 times over...

I think there will always be places for enthusiasts' groups like this one (since there are for every transportation device out there). It's just that if people are looking for something new, they're not going to find a whole lot new in the world of Segway.

I'm looking forward to the Segway Social website, as it'll finally allow owners to connect up with one another without someone having to go to the trouble of organizing a formal local group to do so.

John