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Old 08-10-2007, 01:31 AM   #11
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What makes a Segway different is that the same mechanism that does the braking, also keeps the machine from falling over in normal operation. This means that it is impossible to operate a Segway with faulty brakes. This is the kernel of the issue and it is the point that the legislators miss. Any other vehicle with electric brakes can still go without it's braking system functional (even if just rolling downhill) so they need a backup mechanical braking system. If your segway brakes have failed, you will know it immediately by the sound of skin scraping on pavement
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:00 AM   #12
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I agree with this latest area of consideration and go one further... It will not only not work if the brakes don't work, but it is one of the only transportation devices that simply cannot coast...

When I have mentioned this in the past, I get a lot of raised eyebrows, and scratched heads...

The machine cannot coast at all. It powers up and down hills, or it would not be able to stand upright, so it not only will not work if the brakes go out, it cannot even roll down a hill, and therefore it needs no friction brakes to stop the coasting...
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isidore View Post
If your segway brakes have failed, you will know it immediately by the sound of skin scraping on pavement
I don't disagree with you, but I don't think that explanation would encourage them to see the unit as particularly safe.
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Old 08-10-2007, 07:19 AM   #14
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Default handbrake or physical brake controller

One issue is parking. Once the power is off there is no braking unless the machine is in alarm mode. A handbrake would solve things. Again, only a stupid person would leave his Seg on a slope... well...

I suspect the lack of a pedal or grip contributes to the fear of acceptance...

One technical solution to that is to introduce a handle that simply trims the horizontal plane so the machine tilts backwards and brakes... It is of course against the dynamic principle of braking with a Segway and the basic idea. Technically its something that only Segway can do... But if that is what it takes to pass the machine, that is probably what Segway will do in the future.

Thanks Dexter and Guyler. Clever, clever! Thanks everbody else too. Keep coming with good ideas. Brings us hope.
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Old 08-10-2007, 07:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
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If your segway brakes have failed, you will know it immediately by the sound of skin scraping on pavement
For those posters who implied on the "perceived lack of safety" of the Segway due to the lack of brakes. I think the gap in legislators deeming the Segway unfit for use because it doesn't have a brake doesn't rest with having Segway make any changes to the machine (many have been suggested herein), instead we should encourage the election of better-informed legislators, or educate those currently in office.

Getting back to the topic at hand: I think Karl said it best when he mentioned "the machine does not coast at all." That is exactly how I describe the machine to folks when they ask me how it works, and ask me if the machine has brakes... I never say that the machine doesn't have brakes, I say the machine does not coast, it's motors are always active in maintaining speed and stability no matter the situation.

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Old 08-10-2007, 10:42 AM   #16
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My wife's Ford Escape hybrid has 100% electric braking and steering systems (as opposed to hydraulic) however I don't think that's really what you mean as they still rely on calipers pressing against a moving disc. I'm not sure about the braking on my Honda Civic hybrid although it does have regenerative brakings systems which activate both when actively braking as well as when coasting or decelerating. Same with the Ford.
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Old 08-10-2007, 03:00 PM   #17
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My understanding is that brakes on electrics / hybrids are both mechanical and regenerative.

When gently braking, both sets of brakes are engaged simultaneously. When the system determines that the regenerative circuit is in fact functioning and drawing power, the mechanical brakes are eased off, and the regenerative system takes up the full load. If the brakes are "stomped on" the mechanical system is kept engaged at all times.

If the mechanical system only kicked in _after_ a fault was detected in the regenerative system, an unsafe braking distance would result.

If the mechanical system operated at all times, in tandem with the regenerative system, the regenerative system would not be as effective.

So it's a compromise, in order to keep things safe.
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Old 08-10-2007, 03:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
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My understanding is that brakes on electrics / hybrids are both mechanical and regenerative.

When gently braking, both sets of brakes are engaged simultaneously. When the system determines that the regenerative circuit is in fact functioning and drawing power, the mechanical brakes are eased off, and the regenerative system takes up the full load. If the brakes are "stomped on" the mechanical system is kept engaged at all times.

If the mechanical system only kicked in _after_ a fault was detected in the regenerative system, an unsafe braking distance would result.

If the mechanical system operated at all times, in tandem with the regenerative system, the regenerative system would not be as effective.

So it's a compromise, in order to keep things safe.
I wonder what happens when your battery is fully charged and you brake heavily. Someday a straight-faced winky will appear on my dashboard in bumber to bumber traffic and the steering wheel will start shaking...

Anyone know about the Tesla braking system? Probably the same as a hybrid but its the only "pure electric" I'm aware of besides those little ones that look like smart cars.
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:11 AM   #19
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I used to carry a small 5 pound boat anchor with me. If people got to the point where they really wanted to see the brakes, I could throw it out...

I threatened to throw it many times but only did one time... THat day I had a cord tied to it and to my beltloop...

I now have electronic brakes... So I carry an old computer monitor to toss... LOL... Actually this last entry is not true...
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
I used to carry a small 5 pound boat anchor with me. If people got to the point where they really wanted to see the brakes, I could throw it out...

I threatened to throw it many times but only did one time... THat day I had a cord tied to it and to my beltloop...

I now have electronic brakes... So I carry an old computer monitor to toss... LOL... Actually this last entry is not true...
the visual image of you going down the road with a 5lb anchor in one hand and a foam brick in the other ...
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