Vehicles like Segway

runway10 · 08-09-2007, 05:34 AM

Does anybody know about ANY other vehicle that has electric brakes only? Most EV-bikes, mopeds, scooters and cars have discbrakes as well... I've found lots of those but none without...

Brandis · 08-09-2007, 06:45 AM

For most vehicles there is no need for electric brakes only. The Segway couldn't use mechanical brakes, as this would result in a faceplant.

Marc

Stan671 · 08-09-2007, 07:50 AM

Most sophisticated electric vehicles will use regenerative braking to some extent. This works by using the the motor to act like a generator to recharge the batteries when slowing down. But his is just not enough stopping force for these vehicles and therefore there are regular brakes also.

The Segway takes the regenerative braking one step further and the electronic controls not only pull power from the motors to charge the batteries, but will also provide a reverse current to the motors when needed to provide a stronger braking effect.

As someone else mentioned, this is the only way the Segway can do it without falling over. A mechanical braking system would not be able to be so fast acting and precisely controlled by the computers as the regenerative and reverse current braking system can be. The computers in the Segway need absolute control over even the tiniest movement of the wheels (motors) in order to keep the machine upright.

runway10 · 08-09-2007, 08:16 AM

The reason for my question is the legislation process. If we can find another vehicle that only has electric brakes the chances for approval will improve. It seems some countries legislagtion require some sort of mechanical brakes . Another approved vehicle without mechanical brakes would be a good reference. A rumor is an older generation of Mercedes E-Klasse only has it, lots of problems too. Is this true?

KSagal · 08-09-2007, 09:16 AM

Interesting that you went to Germany for that Mercedes E Class...

I do not know of a vehicle, but one of my professional responsibilities over the past 12 years include being a representiative for the manufacturer of German paper handling equiptment. The Bowe paper cutter (A large high speed device that takes those huge rolls of paper printed on commercial printers, and cuts them into the 8.5 x 11 paper we expect to see in our bank statements and phone bills) uses a DC stepper motor that starts and stops thousands of times per hour, and it has electric only brakes, and incredible accuracy.

So, while I cannot offer up a vehicle, the technology has been used in other applications for some time now. I am sure there are other applications out there with similar stories...

seglander · 08-09-2007, 11:16 AM

I am not 100% sure but you might want to look at some hydraulic drives in industrial machinery such as excavators, florklifts, cranes, crawlers etc. I imagine that they will have some sort of mechanical brake also to prevent rolling when turned off but in regular operation they may not use it.

Drewi216 · 08-09-2007, 11:33 AM

My dad owns a large sized landscaping company and we have several excavators and crawlers, but the way the break system works on the excavator is just the lack of movement in the hydraulic fluid. Since the fluid doesnt compress like air would, nothing in the machine would move.

Sharkie · 08-09-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runway10

Does anybody know about ANY other vehicle that has electric brakes only? Most EV-bikes, mopeds, scooters and cars have discbrakes as well... I've found lots of those but none without...

Well, my old mobility scooter had only electric brakes, although I'm not sure I'd call it a vehicle, more of a frustration generator! :-)

Jim

dexter · 08-09-2007, 08:10 PM

Many modern rollercoasters and pittfall-type amusement rides use only magnetic brakes.

Kingda-Ka at Six Flags Great Adventure for example has a hydraulic propulsion system and magnetic braking. Some launched coasters use magnets for propulsion and braking.

AFAIK the magnetic brakes on these rides are the "final word" i.e. they are used to brake the train at the end of the ride AND are used for emergency stopping should a failure occur... there are no "mechanical" brakes in place at all on these rides... again AFAIK.

guyler · 08-09-2007, 08:53 PM

The maglev (magnetic levitation) trains are propelled and braked by electrical magnetic force. They have wheels--which are used prior to levitation--which do not have brakes. These trains can be found in Germany, China, and Japan.

Comparing a Segway with a maglev train may be a stretch, but what do I know?

08-09-2007, 05:34 AM	#1
runway10 New Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7	Vehicles like Segway Does anybody know about ANY other vehicle that has electric brakes only? Most EV-bikes, mopeds, scooters and cars have discbrakes as well... I've found lots of those but none without...

08-09-2007, 07:50 AM	#3
Stan671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rutherford, NJ, USA. Posts: 2,331	Most sophisticated electric vehicles will use regenerative braking to some extent. This works by using the the motor to act like a generator to recharge the batteries when slowing down. But his is just not enough stopping force for these vehicles and therefore there are regular brakes also. The Segway takes the regenerative braking one step further and the electronic controls not only pull power from the motors to charge the batteries, but will also provide a reverse current to the motors when needed to provide a stronger braking effect. As someone else mentioned, this is the only way the Segway can do it without falling over. A mechanical braking system would not be able to be so fast acting and precisely controlled by the computers as the regenerative and reverse current braking system can be. The computers in the Segway need absolute control over even the tiniest movement of the wheels (motors) in order to keep the machine upright. __________________ Stan Dobrowski

08-09-2007, 08:16 AM	#4
runway10 New Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7	Reason The reason for my question is the legislation process. If we can find another vehicle that only has electric brakes the chances for approval will improve. It seems some countries legislagtion require some sort of mechanical brakes . Another approved vehicle without mechanical brakes would be a good reference. A rumor is an older generation of Mercedes E-Klasse only has it, lots of problems too. Is this true?

08-09-2007, 09:16 AM	#5
KSagal Glides a lot, talks more... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pelham, NH, USA. Posts: 10,356	Interesting that you went to Germany for that Mercedes E Class... I do not know of a vehicle, but one of my professional responsibilities over the past 12 years include being a representiative for the manufacturer of German paper handling equiptment. The Bowe paper cutter (A large high speed device that takes those huge rolls of paper printed on commercial printers, and cuts them into the 8.5 x 11 paper we expect to see in our bank statements and phone bills) uses a DC stepper motor that starts and stops thousands of times per hour, and it has electric only brakes, and incredible accuracy. So, while I cannot offer up a vehicle, the technology has been used in other applications for some time now. I am sure there are other applications out there with similar stories... __________________ Karl Ian Sagal To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin) Bene factum melior bene dictum Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.

08-09-2007, 11:16 AM	#6
seglander Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 109	Hydraulic drives?? I am not 100% sure but you might want to look at some hydraulic drives in industrial machinery such as excavators, florklifts, cranes, crawlers etc. I imagine that they will have some sort of mechanical brake also to prevent rolling when turned off but in regular operation they may not use it. __________________ Martin

08-09-2007, 06:45 AM	#2
Brandis Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Zurich, , Switzerland. Posts: 170	For most vehicles there is no need for electric brakes only. The Segway couldn't use mechanical brakes, as this would result in a faceplant. Marc

08-09-2007, 11:33 AM	#7
Drewi216 New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 14	My dad owns a large sized landscaping company and we have several excavators and crawlers, but the way the break system works on the excavator is just the lack of movement in the hydraulic fluid. Since the fluid doesnt compress like air would, nothing in the machine would move.

08-09-2007, 08:10 PM	#9
dexter Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Linden, NJ, USA. Posts: 466	Many modern rollercoasters and pittfall-type amusement rides use only magnetic brakes. Kingda-Ka at Six Flags Great Adventure for example has a hydraulic propulsion system and magnetic braking. Some launched coasters use magnets for propulsion and braking. AFAIK the magnetic brakes on these rides are the "final word" i.e. they are used to brake the train at the end of the ride AND are used for emergency stopping should a failure occur... there are no "mechanical" brakes in place at all on these rides... again AFAIK. __________________ Dave C. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-09-2007, 08:53 PM	#10
guyler Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Florida Posts: 52	Electrically braked vehicles. The maglev (magnetic levitation) trains are propelled and braked by electrical magnetic force. They have wheels--which are used prior to levitation--which do not have brakes. These trains can be found in Germany, China, and Japan. Comparing a Segway with a maglev train may be a stretch, but what do I know? __________________ Guyler Magruder The reason a redneck murder is so hard to solve is because all the DNA is the same and there are no dental records.

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