SegwayChat
Home . Old Gallery

Go Back   SegwayChat > Other Topics > Science and Technology

Notices

Science and Technology Science & technology discussions not related to the Segway. This includes discussion of Segway knockoffs and clones.

Old 06-11-2006, 10:54 PM   #1
bystander
Senior Member
bystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern California, USA.
Posts: 1,921
5 yr Member
Default Another Wacky idea?

(Originally filed OT as it doesn't fit in any other category. Moderators, please relocate if/as you see fit)

Since a number of indicators have shown that the p-series is due to be discontinued, how about a wish-list of ideas to be put into a revised design?

Not all these ideas are practical, so please bear with me. Also, market conditions have shown the existing very practical p-series was not widely adopted, so doesn't one has to push the limits of practicality for a successor?

Specifications:
Passenger weight/cargo capacity:
Similar to existing p-series spec.
Battery:
One set of removable packs built into the platform, range 5 miles (real-world conditions, not promised. If you want to promise something, promise 8 miles.)

A receiver is built onto the base of the control shaft to attach additional packs to increase range up to 10, 15, & 20 miles. The packs would nest into each other and be supported by the control shaft. The shape of the packs stacked up on the CS wouldn't necessarily be the same as the packs under the platform. The HT would detect the number of stacks connected and adjust it's balance point accordingly. (see caveat #3 about the battery below)

If stacking batteries up the CS turns out not to be practical, additional packs could be placed over the fenders (the fenders turn out to be much lower in this design, as is explained below).

It would be better if the battery(ies) charged in an hour, instead of overnight. Existing inexpensive, high-current batteries don't quite do this, but there are some batteries utilizing nano-materials that may make it into commercial products in the next decade.

Weight:
Target = 20-25 lbs. (lowest range mode - no extra packs) Unrealistic perhaps, but it will have to be that light to really get into public transport situations. (busses, trains, taxis).

Each set of additional battery backs stacked onto the control shaft will increase the weight. The Saphions on the i-series weigh upwards of 24 pounds, so lets target the weight of each additional set of packs to 6 pounds. 25 + 18 = 43 lbs, kind of heavy for some to be lifting into a bus tho.

(Here's where I'm going to loose your attention and respect, if you've even read this far!)

Wheel configuration:
Four oversized in-line skate wheels (4 to 6 inches in diameter), two on either side. There are still two gearboxes, but instead of directly driving one large wheel apiece, belts or gears deliver the torque to a front and rear wheel at the end of two arms, each arm longer than the radius of the wheels.

The arms are suspended on springs. A position sensor measures how far the arms are deflected and tells the CPUs in the platform how much weight is sitting on either "axle" (gearbox output) at any given time. This can be uses as a basis for traction control, that is, not spinning the wheels up when there isn't any weight on them.

When tilting side to side, the inverted "V" made by the arms on the side with more weight will become flatter, spreading the wheels apart slightly. The inverted "V" on the other side will become narrower, those wheels coming closer together.



Legend:
Green - gearbox
Cyan - platform, control shaft
Red - wheel
Dark Blue - suspension arm
Magenta - motion of arms/wheels
Not pictured: details of fenders, springs, drive belts or gears

Both the front and back wheel on either one of the sides will always turn in the same direction, at the same rate as each other. The "pair" of wheels on the left and right will turn independently, as do the wheels on existing HTs.

What you're loosing:
1. Doesn't look like the other 2-wheel Segway models.
2. Won't power-assist up staircases, will have to be carried. (but it's lighter, remember?)

What you're not loosing:
1. Configuration is still somewhat unstable, and still requires dynamic stabilization to maintain balance.
2. "Leaning" would still control forward motion/braking.
3. Ground clearance would be similar to existing p-series, might be tweak-able for more.

What you're gaining:
1. A suspension.
2. Traction detection, allowing traction control. (safer)
3. Narrower footprint. (hopefully, but after drawing it, I'm not so sure. I suppose the wheels could be "to the inside" of the suspension arms, with cutouts into the platform area to allow for wheel/suspension movement.)
4. Side-to-side tilting in high-speed turns.
5. Lower side fenders, more room for cargo and/or batteries.
6. Will remain standing when powered off - no kickstand necessary. (Well, maybe, it depends whether the extra batteries on the control shaft make it tip forward or not)
Price:
Target = $1000 - $1500 SRP for base model(see below). Additional packs would be $400 SRP per pair. And dealer overhead must be considered, (the dealer network turned out to be more important than originally considered, the HT doesn't "sell itself") so manufacturing costs of the base unit+1 set of packs must be $600 to $800 (if not less). If the plan doesn't consider this sort of thing, it might as well be a "no-go".

The price is more of an opinion on my part as I don't have a strong "cost of manufacturing" background. I would not be surprised if this low a mfg. cost is not possible.
---------------------

Caveats:
1. Manufacturing costs to build such a thing might be way to high to support what the retail market is willing to pay.

2. May be rejected as a real "HT" because it doesn't have the conventional two wheels.

3. While 1/4 of a existing Saphion i-series battery may have enough energy stored to propel an HT for 5 miles, it doesn't have enough instantaneous "current on demand" to keep a heavy load balanced safely. Another improvement in battery technology is needed to provide a cell that is lightweight, not too expensive and has a high "C" discharge rate (and maybe a high "C" charge rate too.)

--------------------

Now, much of this is opinion on my part of what would be sellable features. But I'm not the one who's going to be selling it. I invite anyone in a sales capacity to explain what they think would help sell a p-series type HT and their supporting reasons.
bystander is offline  
Old 06-13-2006, 10:03 AM   #2
GyroGo
Member
GyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to all
 
GyroGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago, IL, USA.
Posts: 1,136
5 yr Member
Default cool

I'm not sure of the feasibility or marketability, but I'm clicking you reputation points for very interesting ideas.
__________________
Gary
GyroGo is offline  
Old 06-13-2006, 11:04 AM   #3
MagiMike
Member
MagiMike is a jewel in the roughMagiMike is a jewel in the roughMagiMike is a jewel in the roughMagiMike is a jewel in the rough
 
MagiMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston, TX, USA.
Posts: 701
5 yr Member SegwayFest Attendee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GyroGo
I'm clicking you reputation points for very interesting ideas.
And a point for you too Gary- you glorious beacon of light you !!!!




Click on GyroGo's reputation symbol to see what I'm talking about.
__________________
Mike in Houston TX.

"I'm virtually certain that my avatar is real or really certain that it's virtual.... Or vice versa,"
MagiMike is offline  
Old 06-13-2006, 11:47 PM   #4
Sal
Enjoys a well balanced glide
Sal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond repute
 
Sal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,422
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner SegwayFest Attendee
Default I don't think it's a wacky idea...

... at all... in fact, I think it'd be perfect for an XT, mainly because the tilt would compensate for the "shin claustrophobia" when leaning into turns, BRAVO!

I think your idea(s) can be modified to an actuated active suspension / tilt system for two wheels, in between the gearbox and platform, or the gearbox and wheel...

Keep those ideas coming!

Points to you!

-Sal
__________________
If every value is negotiable upon circumstance, we have no true values. (Anon?)
Sal is offline  
Old 06-14-2006, 12:49 AM   #5
bystander
Senior Member
bystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to allbystander is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern California, USA.
Posts: 1,921
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal
... at all... in fact, I think it'd be perfect for an XT, mainly because the tilt would compensate for the "shin claustrophobia" when leaning into turns, BRAVO!

I think your idea(s) can be modified to an actuated active suspension / tilt system for two wheels, in between the gearbox and platform, or the gearbox and wheel...

Keep those ideas coming!

Points to you!

-Sal
Well, yes, if one insists on only two wheels, you could place the motor/gearbox at the front or rear edge of the platform, instead of were it is now on the i-series (the center). Then the suspension arm with the belt or gears would go from the gearbox back to the center side of the platform.

Maybe the gear reduction could be done with gears or belts in the interior of the suspension arm, relocating the reduction gears, so to speak, and eliminating the gearbox.

Running gears or belts inside of a suspension arm might get a little complicated and undependable though. To simplify, perhaps hub-motor technology has advanced to the point where the motors would be eliminated from the platform and make the gearbox unnecessary.

I was thinking four wheels could make the overall HT design smaller and lighter. If one wants to scale-up instead, I would propose that "Landmaster" type tri-wheels would be awesome for off road.

Landmaster wheels are so called because of the movie prop made for the movie "Damnation Alley". I had posted about it once, but that post occurred during the time the board went down, and it didn't make it onto the backup tape.


I would think three seven-to-nine-inch wheels in the "tri-" arraignment on either side of a XT would let it climb over all sorts of things, even stairs (if they were of the proper dimensions). Almost a kind of "poor mans" i-bot! But then again, you'd be loosing the "two, non-tandem wheels" concept and using three or four wheels at a time (out of a total of six) with the dual tri-wheels.
bystander is offline  
Old 06-14-2006, 10:09 AM   #6
GyroGo
Member
GyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to allGyroGo is a name known to all
 
GyroGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago, IL, USA.
Posts: 1,136
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiMike
And a point for you too Gary- you glorious beacon of light you !!!!
Thank you, MagiMike, jewel in the rough.




bystander, send your resume to INC.
GyroGo is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:10 AM.
Copyright © 2002-2023 SegwayChat.org.
All rights reserved. Not affiliated with Segway Inc.

FreshBlue vBulletin skin by
VayaDesign
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SegwayChat Archive