people renting segways the wrong way? -bad for us? - Page 5

hubbahbubbah · 05-28-2003, 03:31 AM

Larry, it sounds like you thought things out carefully and acted likewise. I'm in agreement with your post -- good luck!!!

pt, I think you're overreacting. I think Larry had a good point that people are getting upset because they are seeing more Segways -- not because they are being rented. If they saw owners gliding around the parks, I think they would be just as upset. Though really -- I don't even believe they're upset, local TV news is worthless and I wouldn't listen to them.

Importantly, I think we need to realize that Segways do not have one particular purpose in life. pt, you've been a model Segway-er, but I don't think you can tell people what to do with it. You can show them, but you can't ask them to use it like you do. Some people will use it for their commute, some for fun, some as a mobility aid, some for dancing (yes, there are those who dance with it.)

What makes one use more valid than the other, pt? I just don't see an answer to that question. Technologies have a life of their own.

I think we should sit back and let the Segway carve out its own niche, let users discovers unique uses for themselves. Let's trust people! Let's see where this thing goes.

Hubbah

p.s. And one more thing -- to address the question posed in the title of this thread. I think Segway rentals are great for us, if we want Segway LLC to sell a lot of these things. People who go on test drives at car dealerships are very likely to buy. People who have actually tried this $5,000 gizmo will be a lot more likely to purchase, than those who've merely seen them. Segway rental stations may well turn out to be Segway sales booths in disguise!

::: http://stinkyshorts.blogspot.com :::

pt · 05-28-2003, 03:34 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by bicycledriver What are the specific interactions between Segway renters and other park users that has raised objections to Segway use? How are these different from bicycle use or skate use?

steve- i bike, jog and skate at the park. the park officials feel that only human powered means should be allowed and the law as it's written allows them to do just that (and they did). it might be a simple matter of the rental company -not- working with them as larry in spokane did and when 10 hts rolled in, they freaked.

"(c) A state agency or local government may regulate the operation of an EPAMD within the boundaries of any area used for recreation, open space, habitat, trails, or conservation purposes. +}"

it's very common for human powered means to zip past people at well over 25 mph in the park, it's not about safety-- if it was, they wouldn't allow most of the things around the park, it's more about human powered vs. other powered, right or wrong that's what it is.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

pt · 05-28-2003, 03:43 AM

i don't see any problems with what larry's endeavor. and if i did it doesn't matter because it's not up to me, nor should it be. but-- i can and will post my experiences (good and bad) here, you're free to skip over them. in the last 24 hours i've seen more bad press about the ht in my area than the last 6 months, all because of rentals, specifically how one place approached renting hts. i'm willing to bet my commute tommorrow will be the first time i get a negative comment in my 6 months / 850 miles. i've had a good run, maybe it's time i get a few :-]

as far as telling others what to do, i'm pointing out what rentals did in my community, people are free to figure out what that means to them and form their own opinions.

here's what i think, if a biz in your community doesn't approach rentals in the way larry did, bans-ville, population you.

if dancing hts are what it's going to be, great...but i refuse to -not- express my thoughts and i'm not going to sit back. it works both ways :-]

cheers,
pt

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by hubbahbubbah Larry, it sounds like you thought things out carefully and acted likewise. I'm in agreement with your post -- good luck!!!

pt, I think you're overreacting. I think Larry had a good point that people are getting upset because they are seeing more Segways -- not because they are being rented. If they saw owners gliding around the parks, I think they would be just as upset. Though really -- I don't even believe they're upset, local TV news is worthless and I wouldn't listen to them.

Importantly, I think we need to realize that Segways do not have one particular purpose in life. pt, you've been a model Segway-er, but I don't think you can tell people what to do with it. You can show them, but you can't ask them to use it like you do. Some people will use it for their commute, some for fun, some as a mobility aid, some for dancing (yes, there are those who dance with it.)

What makes one use more valid than the other, pt? I just don't see an answer to that question. Technologies have a life of their own.

I think we should sit back and let the Segway carve out its own niche, let users discovers unique uses for themselves. Let's trust people! Let's see where this thing goes.

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

hubbahbubbah · 05-28-2003, 03:51 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by pt

as far as telling others what to do, i'm pointing out what rentals did in my community, people are free to figure out what that means to them and form their own opinions.

[...]

if dancing hts are what it's going to be, great...but i refuse to -not- express my thoughts and i'm not going to sit back. it works both ways :-]

cheers,
pt

Hey pt,

I'm not suggesting that you sit back and do nothing, nor that you stop letting people know what you think the best way to use the ht is. Either of those suggestions would be quite naive of me...

What I am saying is that different uses of the HT are inevitable. Thus, I think campaigning for a particular way of using the HT is somewhat of a thankless job. Trying to find the common thread among the different uses -- namely that the HT is cool and quite harmless -- may be better (for everyone), than trying to find the 'right' use and discouraging the 'wrong' ones.

Hubbah

::: http://stinkyshorts.blogspot.com :::

billc · 05-28-2003, 03:53 AM

IMHO the exposure that Segway will get will in the longer term be a good thing. I would like to see an innovative approach to distribution. This is an entitrely new technology and asking people to pay 5K to just try it is a risky business startegy. The rental may work and then spin to sales....It 's not much different to the "RollerBlade" expoerience of the late eighties where that company put ythere product at Venice beach and such places and maximiwed it's exposure...yes and with major safety risks.

Nots syaing that what's happening is ideal. In fact the rental issue is always complicated regardless of the device,BUT add the training that is given for Segway and there are a few more potholes.
(Yes I know it sounds a bit like I'm sitting on the fence!)

Basically - I think it's a good thing! (yes I've tried a Segway and I would love to try it some more)

The bad press is a good indicator of it's success!!!

Why?? Well that's the way the press works! Would you buy or read an article that says that someonne had a Segway and was happy with it and had or caused no problems??? - No....so there has to be an angle...no point using the kiddie dying of cancer or other well worn angles on stories so have to do the old "while everyone believes this is good it is actually insipid or evil"......
(so it has to be good in the first place)

..others are:
Milk causes cancer
Internet triggers serial killer
Mobile phones give you tumours
TV damaging children's IQ
Segways are really very dangerous
etc..
(please feel free to list)

Bill Contoyannis
Manager / Rehabilitation Engineer, REHAB Tech
Centre for Biomedical Engineering - Monash University

pt · 05-28-2003, 04:03 AM

well-- it's interesting, when i started bookofseg.com and when i started posted here i never wanted to be thanked for anything (still don't) so i don't mind promoting what i think helps current and future segway owners the most.

i don't believe in right and wrong (in the scenario) only what consequences are of people's actions.

today, there were lots of consequences of a biz in seattle that rents segway hts. were those consequences helpful or harmful for owners in my area? that's up to them to figure out.

what's going to happen next? i'm not entirely sure, for now the city is posting signs in the park.

no segways allowed.

this wasn't because of a private owner, it was because of a rental company.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

toybuilder · 05-28-2003, 04:19 AM

We are in an early period of the technology, when both the legal and social framework for Segways are still immature. If you look at the early literature on cars, the same thing happened -- there were people driving cars on the boardwalks to avoid getting stuck in the mud, and those drivers would inevitably have people scream at them to get a horse.

It took a while for a nationally organized system of car operation to form.

pt's point is very valid, though -- California apparently was threatened enough by motorized skateboards to pass a Motorized Skateboard prohibition (vc 21968) with an urgency clause. This probably happened because there was a mushrooming of motorized skateboards in many hands of young owners.

Still, given that Segways are priced a bit out of reach of Joe Average, I don't think Segway ownership will be looked upon as reaching epdemic proportions.

For now, it might be good to let the early users (even including rental users) make some mistakes and build up a collective knowledge of the right way to ride Segways. In the long term, society will have to adjust and develop the right set of legal and social rules.

http://www.pasadenasegway.com

LarryL · 05-28-2003, 05:03 AM

Once again, I have to say that it isn't the renters; in this case it is sounds like it was the rental company. If they didn't go to the city and park board first they caused the problem, not the renters or the ability to rent or the training or anything really to do with the Segway. This is why the industry needs regulation and needs to go through a central agency to make sure we don't cause these problems for everyone else. It doesn't sound like they did any homework on this at all. I don't know anything about them or their operation even though we are in the same state. I will try to find out though. This hurts everyone.

I have worked for over a year to put this company and the processes together and make sure it is done right and now it is paying off. We have been operating for a month now with no problem and have Segways all over the park every weekend. The people love it. The park officials love it. There are no problems. Not one old lady or child has been run over. It will, more than likely, happen at some point. But things happen with everything. I had to call 911 for a bike accident in the park on Saturday where two bikes crashed and one guy ended up with a head injury. But it doesn't always mean it was the fault of the bike, skateboard or Segway. Not even the rider in some cases. Things just happen with anything. We just have to be sure we do all we can do to properly work with cities and make sure people are trained as well as possible before riding or renting anywhere.

I want Segways to be the new means of transportation. Not just for rental, even though I have a lot invested in the industry that I am helping to create. I think it is a fantastic invention and I love riding mine for transportation needs as well as pleasure.

One other way we are trying to ensure people don't cause problems is a Segway Friendly Building sticker that businesses will put in their store window by the door so we know if they will allow us to bring them into their stores or not. Every business within a 1 mile radius of our rental centers gets a letter letting them know what we are doing and what to watch out for. They also have a direct number to the owner of that rental center to notify them if they seen anyone not being safe. We want to enhance the cities not hurt them.

I know I'm rambling, but this is serious to everyone, not just my rental company and everyone needs to understand that more than likely the problems in Seattle could have been avoided had the right steps been taken.

Larry

toybuilder · 05-28-2003, 05:13 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by LarryL

Every business within a 1 mile radius of our rental centers gets a letter letting them know what we are doing and what to watch out for. They also have a direct number to the owner of that rental center to notify them if they seen anyone not being safe. We want to enhance the cities not hurt them.

Bravo! I'm standing up as I type this.

http://www.pasadenasegway.com

pt · 05-28-2003, 05:35 AM

well said larry, i'm really glad you're leading the way and *hopefully* this seattle thing will quickly get resolved.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

05-28-2003, 03:31 AM	#41
hubbahbubbah Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA, . Posts: 313	Larry, it sounds like you thought things out carefully and acted likewise. I'm in agreement with your post -- good luck!!! pt, I think you're overreacting. I think Larry had a good point that people are getting upset because they are seeing more Segways -- not because they are being rented. If they saw owners gliding around the parks, I think they would be just as upset. Though really -- I don't even believe they're upset, local TV news is worthless and I wouldn't listen to them. Importantly, I think we need to realize that Segways do not have one particular purpose in life. pt, you've been a model Segway-er, but I don't think you can tell people what to do with it. You can show them, but you can't ask them to use it like you do. Some people will use it for their commute, some for fun, some as a mobility aid, some for dancing (yes, there are those who dance with it.) What makes one use more valid than the other, pt? I just don't see an answer to that question. Technologies have a life of their own. I think we should sit back and let the Segway carve out its own niche, let users discovers unique uses for themselves. Let's trust people! Let's see where this thing goes. Hubbah p.s. And one more thing -- to address the question posed in the title of this thread. I think Segway rentals are great for us, if we want Segway LLC to sell a lot of these things. People who go on test drives at car dealerships are very likely to buy. People who have actually tried this $5,000 gizmo will be a lot more likely to purchase, than those who've merely seen them. Segway rental stations may well turn out to be Segway sales booths in disguise! ::: http://stinkyshorts.blogspot.com :::

05-28-2003, 03:53 AM	#45
billc Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Melbourne, , Australia. Posts: 92	IMHO the exposure that Segway will get will in the longer term be a good thing. I would like to see an innovative approach to distribution. This is an entitrely new technology and asking people to pay 5K to just try it is a risky business startegy. The rental may work and then spin to sales....It 's not much different to the "RollerBlade" expoerience of the late eighties where that company put ythere product at Venice beach and such places and maximiwed it's exposure...yes and with major safety risks. Nots syaing that what's happening is ideal. In fact the rental issue is always complicated regardless of the device,BUT add the training that is given for Segway and there are a few more potholes. (Yes I know it sounds a bit like I'm sitting on the fence!) Basically - I think it's a good thing! (yes I've tried a Segway and I would love to try it some more) The bad press is a good indicator of it's success!!! Why?? Well that's the way the press works! Would you buy or read an article that says that someonne had a Segway and was happy with it and had or caused no problems??? - No....so there has to be an angle...no point using the kiddie dying of cancer or other well worn angles on stories so have to do the old "while everyone believes this is good it is actually insipid or evil"...... (so it has to be good in the first place) ..others are: Milk causes cancer Internet triggers serial killer Mobile phones give you tumours TV damaging children's IQ Segways are really very dangerous etc.. (please feel free to list) Bill Contoyannis Manager / Rehabilitation Engineer, REHAB Tech Centre for Biomedical Engineering - Monash University

05-28-2003, 04:03 AM	#46
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	well-- it's interesting, when i started bookofseg.com and when i started posted here i never wanted to be thanked for anything (still don't) so i don't mind promoting what i think helps current and future segway owners the most. i don't believe in right and wrong (in the scenario) only what consequences are of people's actions. today, there were lots of consequences of a biz in seattle that rents segway hts. were those consequences helpful or harmful for owners in my area? that's up to them to figure out. what's going to happen next? i'm not entirely sure, for now the city is posting signs in the park. no segways allowed. this wasn't because of a private owner, it was because of a rental company. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

05-28-2003, 04:19 AM	#47
toybuilder Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pasadena, CA, . Posts: 935	We are in an early period of the technology, when both the legal and social framework for Segways are still immature. If you look at the early literature on cars, the same thing happened -- there were people driving cars on the boardwalks to avoid getting stuck in the mud, and those drivers would inevitably have people scream at them to get a horse. It took a while for a nationally organized system of car operation to form. pt's point is very valid, though -- California apparently was threatened enough by motorized skateboards to pass a Motorized Skateboard prohibition (vc 21968) with an urgency clause. This probably happened because there was a mushrooming of motorized skateboards in many hands of young owners. Still, given that Segways are priced a bit out of reach of Joe Average, I don't think Segway ownership will be looked upon as reaching epdemic proportions. For now, it might be good to let the early users (even including rental users) make some mistakes and build up a collective knowledge of the right way to ride Segways. In the long term, society will have to adjust and develop the right set of legal and social rules. http://www.pasadenasegway.com

05-28-2003, 05:03 AM	#48
LarryL Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Spokane, WA, . Posts: 132	Once again, I have to say that it isn't the renters; in this case it is sounds like it was the rental company. If they didn't go to the city and park board first they caused the problem, not the renters or the ability to rent or the training or anything really to do with the Segway. This is why the industry needs regulation and needs to go through a central agency to make sure we don't cause these problems for everyone else. It doesn't sound like they did any homework on this at all. I don't know anything about them or their operation even though we are in the same state. I will try to find out though. This hurts everyone. I have worked for over a year to put this company and the processes together and make sure it is done right and now it is paying off. We have been operating for a month now with no problem and have Segways all over the park every weekend. The people love it. The park officials love it. There are no problems. Not one old lady or child has been run over. It will, more than likely, happen at some point. But things happen with everything. I had to call 911 for a bike accident in the park on Saturday where two bikes crashed and one guy ended up with a head injury. But it doesn't always mean it was the fault of the bike, skateboard or Segway. Not even the rider in some cases. Things just happen with anything. We just have to be sure we do all we can do to properly work with cities and make sure people are trained as well as possible before riding or renting anywhere. I want Segways to be the new means of transportation. Not just for rental, even though I have a lot invested in the industry that I am helping to create. I think it is a fantastic invention and I love riding mine for transportation needs as well as pleasure. One other way we are trying to ensure people don't cause problems is a Segway Friendly Building sticker that businesses will put in their store window by the door so we know if they will allow us to bring them into their stores or not. Every business within a 1 mile radius of our rental centers gets a letter letting them know what we are doing and what to watch out for. They also have a direct number to the owner of that rental center to notify them if they seen anyone not being safe. We want to enhance the cities not hurt them. I know I'm rambling, but this is serious to everyone, not just my rental company and everyone needs to understand that more than likely the problems in Seattle could have been avoided had the right steps been taken. Larry

05-28-2003, 05:35 AM	#50
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	well said larry, i'm really glad you're leading the way and hopefully this seattle thing will quickly get resolved. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

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