people renting segways the wrong way? -bad for us? - Page 4

pt · 05-28-2003, 02:43 AM

no fear here-- in fact, here comes something. i don't agree with a petition / survey approach, sorry. and if i was going to do one, it would to prohibit the rental of segway hts in my area.

cheers,
pt

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by vpv PT:

Now is the best time to do that survey/petition that we talked about a while ago before it's too late. Now that this issue of banning has come up in your own backyard.

Don't be fearful. You have everyone here backing you up.

Just give the freedom to anyone who is willing to use the Segway via purchase or rental. This is America you know, land of the free.

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

LarryL · 05-28-2003, 02:50 AM

I have been away from the computer all day so I am just now seeing this. I am amazed at what I’m reading. Are these comments against renting Segways being rented really here – and posted by Segway owners?

As one of the owners of the largest fleet of Segways for rent in the country at Fun Transport in Spokane, I have to get my two cents in here and perhaps let you in on a little more of what is going on with the industry.

First, let’s clear up that if there were no Segway Rental Centers around at all and instead sales were considerably higher, as we all had thought and hoped for, you would see more Segways around in the parks and other public places than you do with rental companies. The same people complaining now would be complain and trying to get the Segways banned. It really has NOTHING to do with the Rental of Segways. Remember, San Francisco banned them before they were even available to purchase!

Second, anyone who went to the regular Segway training must admit that it wasn’t much of a preparation for riding in the real world. I went to the Seattle training and watched a video, took at test that they didn’t even grade, got 15 minutes of one on one training on how to start and stop, do a figure 8 and go around a few cones. I was then let go with no other training. Off to wait for a week before my Segway got to me and had to then learn it all over again on my own.

At Fun Transport training, you are required to watch the Safety section of the Segway training video then go through a very through training on maneuvering around not only a cone course, but how to navigate up inclines, curbs (which are not covered anywhere in the training from Segway) as well as power stops. Very good control is what is always looked for and if you can’t pass, you can’t rent. Renters are then, in my opinion, more trained than I was when I left training. Not renters are allowed to go out on a smooth trail environment, on the black key only, and they have a ball. They are safe and they can come back and talk to us about the experience, ask more questions, get more training, and go out more if they wish. As they progress by renting more they are allowed to move up to the yellow key. In the park environment they would not be allowed beyond the yellow key unless they are on our Glided Tour© where we have them in our control. These people are much safer than I was when I got my Segway. We have had hundreds of them rented out now in the park and have not had one complaint to the park, city, police or to us.

While we are talking about training let’s comparing it to other things, let’s look at what it takes to rent a snowmobile, speed boat, Sea Doo or many other very fast and potentially dangerous vehicles. NO TRAINING is done in most cases. They ask you a few questions, show you a few things and you’re off on your own. I even rented a tractor one time that was large enough for my family of 4 to sit in the enclosed cab and I had less than 5 minutes of training on it and had never touched on in my life. Was that safe?

Safety MUST BE the primary aspect of renting a Segway. Yes, it is very different than anything else we have ever tried, but we all know it is very easy to learn. You don’t have to master it to ride it and enjoy it.

My partner and I had dinner with Dean Kamen on Friday night in Berkeley because of our Rental business and our plans. Safety was also the biggest thing he stressed. We talked for a long time about our training and our safety issues. He was very pleased to hear all that we do and require.

Like it or not, Segway rentals are here and here to stay. Just like bike rentals, when they first started in Riverfront Park and on the Centennial Trail, they had lots of complaints and everyone was up in arms about them because they were so fast and caused so many problems. Now those people, who worked hard to finally be allowed to enjoy these areas the way they wanted to enjoy them, must allow the Segway as well. I would venture to say this same sort of situation happened in almost every park setting that has a lot of people on any type of trails or walkways. The walkers don’t like the runners. The runners don’t like the bikers and now none of them like the Segways We are all here to enjoy these areas and we all pay our taxes to do so in our own way. There will always be less Segways in these areas than there are bikers, walkers and joggers. Just because one group of people doesn’t like what a new group does, they do not have the right to get them banned.

Riverfront Park had the same restrictions as you are talking about in Seattle and most other large parks – no motorized vehicles – we worked with the city and made sure that the law really didn’t apply to a Segway before doing anything. We worked with the city and the park board to ensure that we met all their safety requirements. We worked with the police department to make sure they knew what we were doing. It’s important to do it right and that is a big concern with people opening rental agencies and having no control or regulations.

At this time, Fun Transport is working with over 20 people to open rental centers around the country and more are being added every day. We are working our very strict regulations on what must be done in a city before we will even look at them for a rental center. We will also be very picky about who the owners are to ensure they will adhere to our regulations. The Fun Transport Segway Training and Rental Centers will be a chain that holds to strict safety standards and issues a Gliders License that will be accepted at all Fun Transport offices. There is also a National database of renters through Fun Transport so that any office can look up the history of a rider just like the DMV before renting. Fun Transport will be working closely with the Segway legislative teams to ensure we are doing everything right in every city and with the other Segway teams to make sure we are always current on the newest ways to be safe. This is the only way we can be assured that this industry can be regulated and safe for everyone. There are a lot of plans in the works for the industry as it starts to grow that can only benefit everyone involved. But it MUST be regulated, and that’s where we hope to fit in.

I apologize for my ramblings here, but I think it is important to know that these problems are not the cause of rental companies, but because the Segways are new, unknown and therefore not wanted. But just like the bike and rollerblades, once people get used them they will be just another fixture in the parks with well trained renters and owners gliding together with the walkers, joggers, bikers, rollerbladers, skateboarders, and who knows what will be next.

OH, I just looked to see another post about this being a “Quick-Buck Operation.” Don’t believe it. We are in this for the long haul. We have invested lots of money, time and effort into making this a very viable, long term investment into the future. AND since you are bringing up France – NO TRAINING REQUIRED that I can see – to rent from the Keolis group. Insert your credit card, take out your Segway, look over the short explanation on the wall and off you go. We are also setting this type of system up in NY, Chicago and several other large cities and will REQUIRE the EVERYONE be trained. If I was in it for the quick buck, I would have rented to the guy who called me today wanting one for a week for a convention in Denver, but I didn’t because I couldn’t train him. It was good money that was turned down due to SAFETY!

Larry

Private Pile · 05-28-2003, 02:56 AM

Awesome, Larry! Sounds like you are class all the way and I commend you.

pt · 05-28-2003, 03:01 AM

larry-

just to be clear, i think rentals might be bad for current owners. and right now i'm only looking at the greenlake rental biz. i hope to learn more, but in the last 24 hours there has been more negative press about the ht than the last 6 months here in seattle, all around rentals.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

pt · 05-28-2003, 03:02 AM

the theme of the q13 broadcast was "the segway is expensive, now you can rent one...but you can't use it here..."

here are some quotes that i jotted down.

"...one the most popular parks may be swarming with the segway super scooters"

"..beware you can't ride them everywhere".

craig vinton rents them out for $45 per hour.

but don't use them on the trail, it'll cost you $500 if you're caught.

sarah powers rents them $40.

the city "isn't buying it"....

human powered and artificially powered are not to be mixed...

"...kinda stupid, i want to exercise" says one walker.

there was a woman from the city that seemed really mad about the hts doing most of the quotes from the city.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

vpv · 05-28-2003, 03:07 AM

Larry:

I second the motion.. excellent point..
Segway is here to stay whether it is rented or purchased.
So.. to all Segway users.. let's all get along and be more cohesive and organized.. We have a greater enemy out there to tackle (anti-seggers) than our petty bickering among ourselves..

BruceWright · 05-28-2003, 03:24 AM

I think Larry's doing it the right way. The company in Seattle's doing it the wrong way.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

pt · 05-28-2003, 03:24 AM

larry, i sent you a private note-- it sounds to me like you're taking a serious approach on this and that's really good. i need to look at what happened today and form an opinion, what you posted is very helpful.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by LarryL Are these comments against renting Segways being rented really here – and posted by Segway owners?

owner's opinions are pretty valued i would think? right?

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by LarryL First, let’s clear up that if there were no Segway Rental Centers around at all and instead sales were considerably higher, as we all had thought and hoped for, you would see more Segways around in the parks and other public places than you do with rental companies.

i wasn't hoping for more sales, this is month 2 of a consumer release. most of the owners i know, stay out of parks. having 10 segway hts in a park will (and did) cause the city i live in to take some quick actions. if this was a private owner, you might have a warning or action on a case by case issue, but now...every newspaper and tv station ran a story about banning the ht because of rentals.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by LarryL The same people complaining now would be complain and trying to get the Segways banned. It really has NOTHING to do with the Rental of Segways. Remember, San Francisco banned them before they were even available to purchase!

i think it's safe to say i really like the segway ht. but opening a rental business and having people glide in parks, to me, isn't helpful to current owners. my evidence is the 2 major papers and the 2 tv stations here covering the "ban" in the park.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by LarryL Second, anyone who went to the regular Segway training must admit that it wasn’t much of a preparation for riding in the real world. I went to the Seattle training and watched a video, took at test that they didn’t even grade, got 15 minutes of one on one training on how to start and stop, do a figure 8 and go around a few cones. I was then let go with no other training. Off to wait for a week before my Segway got to me and had to then learn it all over again on my own.

i sat in seattle class, it was much longer than that. while you waited that week you had the video, the manual and the investment. then when you got your ht, it wasn't in the middle of greenlake park or in the town, it was at your house and in your area.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by LarryL At Fun Transport training, you are required to watch the Safety section of the Segway training video then go through a very through training on maneuvering around not only a cone course, but how to navigate up inclines, curbs (which are not covered anywhere in the training from Segway) as well as power stops. Very good control is what is always looked for and if you can’t pass, you can’t rent. Renters are then, in my opinion, more trained than I was when I left training. Not renters are allowed to go out on a smooth trail environment, on the black key only, and they have a ball. They are safe and they can come back and talk to us about the experience, ask more questions, get more training, and go out more if they wish. As they progress by renting more they are allowed to move up to the yellow key. In the park environment they would not be allowed beyond the yellow key unless they are on our Glided Tour© where we have them in our control. These people are much safer than I was when I got my Segway. We have had hundreds of them rented out now in the park and have not had one complaint to the park, city, police or to us.

this is great to hear and i'm also sure you worked closely with the town, etc..? this sounds like a great approach, in fact all the press i read about fun transport has been 100% positive. i'm not sure the folks in seattle worked with the city as you did, but i'll find out when i chat with them.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by LarryL Like it or not, Segway rentals are here and here to stay. Just like bike rentals, when they first started in Riverfront Park and on the Centennial Trail, they had lots of complaints and everyone was up in arms about them because they were so fast and caused so many problems. Now those people, who worked hard to finally be allowed to enjoy these areas the way they wanted to enjoy them, must allow the Segway as well. I would venture to say this same sort of situation happened in almost every park setting that has a lot of people on any type of trails or walkways. The walkers don’t like the runners. The runners don’t like the bikers and now none of them like the Segways We are all here to enjoy these areas and we all pay our taxes to do so in our own way. There will always be less Segways in these areas than there are bikers, walkers and joggers. Just because one group of people doesn’t like what a new group does, they do not have the right to get them banned. .

that sounds great but...the hts are not allowed at greenlake and the state law says the parks -can- regulate the ht use all they want (and they did). if rentals cause me not to be able to use my ht like i have for the last 6 months, i'll do what i can to make sure my rights are protected too.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by LarryL Riverfront Park had the same restrictions as you are talking about in Seattle and most other large parks – no motorized vehicles – we worked with the city and made sure that the law really didn’t apply to a Segway before doing anything. We worked with the city and the park board to ensure that we met all their safety requirements. We worked with the police department to make sure they knew what we were doing. It’s important to do it right and that is a big concern with people opening rental agencies and having no control or regulations.

this sounds like the proper approach, to me it doesn't seem possible that the folks at greenlake did, otherwise there wouldn't be this action from the city.

thanks again for this post larry, it seems there are ways to rent hts and there are other ways to rent hts.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

bicycledriver · 05-28-2003, 03:27 AM

What are the specific interactions between Segway renters and other park users that has raised objections to Segway use? How are these different from bicycle use or skate use?

pt · 05-28-2003, 03:27 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by BruceWrightI think Larry's doing it the right way. The company in Seattle's doing it the wrong way.

that's where i think i'll end up. i want to chat with the seattle folks and see what the deal is.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

05-28-2003, 02:50 AM	#32
LarryL Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Spokane, WA, . Posts: 132	I have been away from the computer all day so I am just now seeing this. I am amazed at what I’m reading. Are these comments against renting Segways being rented really here – and posted by Segway owners? As one of the owners of the largest fleet of Segways for rent in the country at Fun Transport in Spokane, I have to get my two cents in here and perhaps let you in on a little more of what is going on with the industry. First, let’s clear up that if there were no Segway Rental Centers around at all and instead sales were considerably higher, as we all had thought and hoped for, you would see more Segways around in the parks and other public places than you do with rental companies. The same people complaining now would be complain and trying to get the Segways banned. It really has NOTHING to do with the Rental of Segways. Remember, San Francisco banned them before they were even available to purchase! Second, anyone who went to the regular Segway training must admit that it wasn’t much of a preparation for riding in the real world. I went to the Seattle training and watched a video, took at test that they didn’t even grade, got 15 minutes of one on one training on how to start and stop, do a figure 8 and go around a few cones. I was then let go with no other training. Off to wait for a week before my Segway got to me and had to then learn it all over again on my own. At Fun Transport training, you are required to watch the Safety section of the Segway training video then go through a very through training on maneuvering around not only a cone course, but how to navigate up inclines, curbs (which are not covered anywhere in the training from Segway) as well as power stops. Very good control is what is always looked for and if you can’t pass, you can’t rent. Renters are then, in my opinion, more trained than I was when I left training. Not renters are allowed to go out on a smooth trail environment, on the black key only, and they have a ball. They are safe and they can come back and talk to us about the experience, ask more questions, get more training, and go out more if they wish. As they progress by renting more they are allowed to move up to the yellow key. In the park environment they would not be allowed beyond the yellow key unless they are on our Glided Tour© where we have them in our control. These people are much safer than I was when I got my Segway. We have had hundreds of them rented out now in the park and have not had one complaint to the park, city, police or to us. While we are talking about training let’s comparing it to other things, let’s look at what it takes to rent a snowmobile, speed boat, Sea Doo or many other very fast and potentially dangerous vehicles. NO TRAINING is done in most cases. They ask you a few questions, show you a few things and you’re off on your own. I even rented a tractor one time that was large enough for my family of 4 to sit in the enclosed cab and I had less than 5 minutes of training on it and had never touched on in my life. Was that safe? Safety MUST BE the primary aspect of renting a Segway. Yes, it is very different than anything else we have ever tried, but we all know it is very easy to learn. You don’t have to master it to ride it and enjoy it. My partner and I had dinner with Dean Kamen on Friday night in Berkeley because of our Rental business and our plans. Safety was also the biggest thing he stressed. We talked for a long time about our training and our safety issues. He was very pleased to hear all that we do and require. Like it or not, Segway rentals are here and here to stay. Just like bike rentals, when they first started in Riverfront Park and on the Centennial Trail, they had lots of complaints and everyone was up in arms about them because they were so fast and caused so many problems. Now those people, who worked hard to finally be allowed to enjoy these areas the way they wanted to enjoy them, must allow the Segway as well. I would venture to say this same sort of situation happened in almost every park setting that has a lot of people on any type of trails or walkways. The walkers don’t like the runners. The runners don’t like the bikers and now none of them like the Segways We are all here to enjoy these areas and we all pay our taxes to do so in our own way. There will always be less Segways in these areas than there are bikers, walkers and joggers. Just because one group of people doesn’t like what a new group does, they do not have the right to get them banned. Riverfront Park had the same restrictions as you are talking about in Seattle and most other large parks – no motorized vehicles – we worked with the city and made sure that the law really didn’t apply to a Segway before doing anything. We worked with the city and the park board to ensure that we met all their safety requirements. We worked with the police department to make sure they knew what we were doing. It’s important to do it right and that is a big concern with people opening rental agencies and having no control or regulations. At this time, Fun Transport is working with over 20 people to open rental centers around the country and more are being added every day. We are working our very strict regulations on what must be done in a city before we will even look at them for a rental center. We will also be very picky about who the owners are to ensure they will adhere to our regulations. The Fun Transport Segway Training and Rental Centers will be a chain that holds to strict safety standards and issues a Gliders License that will be accepted at all Fun Transport offices. There is also a National database of renters through Fun Transport so that any office can look up the history of a rider just like the DMV before renting. Fun Transport will be working closely with the Segway legislative teams to ensure we are doing everything right in every city and with the other Segway teams to make sure we are always current on the newest ways to be safe. This is the only way we can be assured that this industry can be regulated and safe for everyone. There are a lot of plans in the works for the industry as it starts to grow that can only benefit everyone involved. But it MUST be regulated, and that’s where we hope to fit in. I apologize for my ramblings here, but I think it is important to know that these problems are not the cause of rental companies, but because the Segways are new, unknown and therefore not wanted. But just like the bike and rollerblades, once people get used them they will be just another fixture in the parks with well trained renters and owners gliding together with the walkers, joggers, bikers, rollerbladers, skateboarders, and who knows what will be next. OH, I just looked to see another post about this being a “Quick-Buck Operation.” Don’t believe it. We are in this for the long haul. We have invested lots of money, time and effort into making this a very viable, long term investment into the future. AND since you are bringing up France – NO TRAINING REQUIRED that I can see – to rent from the Keolis group. Insert your credit card, take out your Segway, look over the short explanation on the wall and off you go. We are also setting this type of system up in NY, Chicago and several other large cities and will REQUIRE the EVERYONE be trained. If I was in it for the quick buck, I would have rented to the guy who called me today wanting one for a week for a convention in Denver, but I didn’t because I couldn’t train him. It was good money that was turned down due to SAFETY! Larry

05-28-2003, 02:56 AM	#33
Private Pile Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California, . Posts: 154	Awesome, Larry! Sounds like you are class all the way and I commend you.

05-28-2003, 03:01 AM	#34
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	larry- just to be clear, i think rentals might be bad for current owners. and right now i'm only looking at the greenlake rental biz. i hope to learn more, but in the last 24 hours there has been more negative press about the ht than the last 6 months here in seattle, all around rentals. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

05-28-2003, 03:02 AM	#35
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	the theme of the q13 broadcast was "the segway is expensive, now you can rent one...but you can't use it here..." here are some quotes that i jotted down. "...one the most popular parks may be swarming with the segway super scooters" "..beware you can't ride them everywhere". craig vinton rents them out for $45 per hour. but don't use them on the trail, it'll cost you $500 if you're caught. sarah powers rents them $40. the city "isn't buying it".... human powered and artificially powered are not to be mixed... "...kinda stupid, i want to exercise" says one walker. there was a woman from the city that seemed really mad about the hts doing most of the quotes from the city. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

05-28-2003, 03:07 AM	#36
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	Larry: I second the motion.. excellent point.. Segway is here to stay whether it is rented or purchased. So.. to all Segway users.. let's all get along and be more cohesive and organized.. We have a greater enemy out there to tackle (anti-seggers) than our petty bickering among ourselves..

05-28-2003, 03:24 AM	#37
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	I think Larry's doing it the right way. The company in Seattle's doing it the wrong way. -Bruce Wright Segway: Vehicle of Dream

05-28-2003, 03:27 AM	#39
bicycledriver Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: , , . Posts: 513	What are the specific interactions between Segway renters and other park users that has raised objections to Segway use? How are these different from bicycle use or skate use?

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