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Old 08-24-2013, 07:55 PM   #1
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Default Citibikes? No Fair

I am a bit envious of all of the catering to bicyclists in NYC, especially with this new Citibike program.

Citibike has bike stands with a row of bikes for the public. You rent it, then once at your destination, you leave it at another Citibike stand.

Each time I am standing at the bus stop (because NYC is not Segway friendly), I think, "What about Segways?"

I don't think public rentals of Segways would be wise, but I am referring to the city not legalizing the use of them while further catering to an influx of bikers.

These riders are everyday people in business clothes without helmets (usually) nor safety gear in city traffic -- not on bike trails nor in bike lanes. So how is that safe? Why can't I glide to work without worrying about getting a ticket?

It's unfair in my opinion.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:25 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilnyc View Post
I am a bit envious of all of the catering to bicyclists in NYC, especially with this new Citibike program.
As at April 2013, there were 535 bike sharing programs worldwide, in 49 countries. The total fleet comprised 517,000 bicycles.
Be envious. Be very envious.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:52 AM   #3
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It is all about lobbying and politics. Has very little to do with merit. Not to say there is no merit here, just that it is not a factor in the legality part...
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:50 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
As at April 2013, there were 535 bike sharing programs worldwide, in 49 countries. The total fleet comprised 517,000 bicycles.
Be envious. Be very envious.
Oh, I am. Because in NYC, there are bike trails for them, signs over bike racks that specify "bikes only," and bike parking at my job that won't allow my Segway although it won't impose.

And don't get me started on the pedicabs, food vendors who transport their carts in traffic by foot and delivery men with modified electric bikes -- which by the rules fall into the same category as the Segway.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:54 PM   #5
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It is all about lobbying and politics. Has very little to do with merit. Not to say there is no merit here, just that it is not a factor in the legality part...
I agree.

And I know I have been whining about this for years, but seeing the Citibikes zoom by while I am waiting for a bus (when I shouldn't have to) just rubs it in my face a bit.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:28 PM   #6
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Yes, lobbying and politics. The International Bicycle Conspiracy strikes again!

Want to talk merits:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/tran...hare_part1.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/tran...hare_part2.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/tran...hare_part3.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/tran...hare_part4.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/tran...hare_part5.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/tran...hare_part6.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/tran...hare_part7.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/tran...hare_part8.pdf
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:42 PM   #7
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In all fairness, writing a state EPAMD law that exempted cities with populations greater than one million was wrong.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:44 PM   #8
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Bicycles have these points:

1. They're large/bulky/get in the way.
2. They're not very stable at low speeds.
3. They are not protected from a car merging into you.
4. They don't run on electricity, which means you never have to recharge.


Conclusion:
They are way too dangerous on NYC streets and sidewalks, and along with being bulky and not protected, a bicycle is just too unsafe for NYC.


Segways have these points:

1.Small foorprint, can easily go through almost any doors, get through back alleys.
2. Nimble, can easily make a 180 in its own space and can swerve to avoid obstacles.
3. Speed restricted, at its max speed, the Segway PT can get up to 12.5MPH, which however is unsafe for sidewalks, but still, limited, unlike a bicycle.
Also, when they are legalised, a speed law can be set in place for a maximum of 4MPH on sidewalks.
4. Compact, no need for big space to store your PT, it takes up approximately the same space as a single stroller.
5. Safe, with added visibility to see over cars and be seen by them, the Segway PT is optimised for cities.

What would you choose?

Please feel free to add or correct any mistakes I have made.
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
Yes, lobbying and politics. The International Bicycle Conspiracy strikes again!

Want to talk merits: No, I don't. And I said so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
In all fairness, writing a state EPAMD law that exempted cities with populations greater than one million was wrong.
JohnM,

Your pro bike positions are well expressed, even when the distinctions between electric bikes and segways are not significant. If it looks enough like a bike and not like a segway, it is protected, even if it has no pedals and works more like a segway and less like a bike. (electric motors for motion, etc)

But, and it is a big but, I did not say there was no merit in allowing bicycles. I specifically said that this project (the rent a bike program she was talking about) was not without merit. My point was not about merit or not having merit. And you know that, despite your politically self serving response.

The bicycle lobby is very powerful, and very organized, and good at getting its point out, and is fiercely defensive of any rights or privileges it sees that it has. It will not share any of its gains for fear of loosing its political impact. And that fear is relatively well placed, as there are many who would want some of the rights that bicycles have. Segway users are among those who would want to share the road/path/converted rail bed/shoulder of the road.

One does not have to think there is an international Bicycle conspiracy to think there is an active and effective bicycle rights and access lobby. Your over reaction is noted, but it diminishes your point, on this SEGWAY forum.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritium View Post
Bicycles have these points:

1. They're large/bulky/get in the way.
2. They're not very stable at low speeds.
3. They are not protected from a car merging into you.
4. They don't run on electricity, which means you never have to recharge.


Conclusion:
They are way too dangerous on NYC streets and sidewalks, and along with being bulky and not protected, a bicycle is just too unsafe for NYC.


Segways have these points:

1.Small foorprint, can easily go through almost any doors, get through back alleys.
2. Nimble, can easily make a 180 in its own space and can swerve to avoid obstacles.
3. Speed restricted, at its max speed, the Segway PT can get up to 12.5MPH, which however is unsafe for sidewalks, but still, limited, unlike a bicycle.
Also, when they are legalised, a speed law can be set in place for a maximum of 4MPH on sidewalks.
4. Compact, no need for big space to store your PT, it takes up approximately the same space as a single stroller.
5. Safe, with added visibility to see over cars and be seen by them, the Segway PT is optimised for cities.

What would you choose?

Please feel free to add or correct any mistakes I have made.
Bicycles are hear to stay. They are very effective means of transportation for a great many people around the world, in a great many variations.

I myself ride one regularly. I would ride more and want to, time permitting.

As to your points...
I do believe that bikes are longer than segways, but narrower. Overall footprint is bigger for a bike than segway, but not outrageously so. I had an apartment downtown Boston in my days before owning a segway, and I used to wheel it up onto its rear wheel, and balance it like that in the elevator to my room. It took more effort but I do not believe it took too too much more space than my segway. Maybe a bit. And I got more headaches from that, as I was supposed to use the freight elevator, than I get from having my segway in an elevator.

Bikes are not very stable at low speeds, but most of us can drop our feet to the ground in one manner or another to not have a problem with this. Any low speed failure against the segway is compensated for by being able to go much faster than a segway.

I agree that they are not much protection from an impact with a car. Of course, some of us can hit cars with our segways as well, so I don't see how this is much of a point. I believe that if you have a collision with a car when on your bike, you will loose. I further believe that if you have a collision with a car on your segway, you will also loose. I do not know that one is better to collide with cars with than the other.

Bicycles do not run on electricity, that is true for many, but there are also a great many electric bikes, and electric assist bikes, and more. Being on a bicycle does not exclude the use of electricity any more. However, if the point is that bikes use human propulsion instead of electric, I agree for the most part. There are advantages and sweaty disadvantages here.

To conclude they are too dangerous for NYC streets is comical, since they were there before cars, there are hundreds of thousands of them or more in NYC, and they are not likely to go away. I agree they are not designed for, nor should they ride on the sidewalk. AND there are dangers involved, as I am sure there are many collisions with the bikes every day, against cars, pedestrians, and a whole host of other objects. But then there are also collisions amongst the cars, amongst the pedestrians, and I am sure an occasional horse bumps into someone or something from time to time.

Most of your segway comments are okay by me. You post the things you like, and I will not argue against any of them, but I might have used different examples.

I personally do not think this is an us or them kind of thing. I do not see that trying to diminish the bicycle will make the segway user any more accepted. I see that they two items are different, and do some similar and some different things, and even the similar tasks are done differently. It is like trying to say an orange is better because an apple bruises easier. I see them as very different fruit, and hammering the apple does not improve the orange.
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