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Old 01-30-2008, 06:14 PM   #1
quade
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Default Acceptable usage of language

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellphish View Post
I'll link it[/URL] instead of putting it inline incase anyone is offended at the word "godd***"
I think I need to break this post out for a side bar.

Lemme give you a piece of background material first so you can see where this particular piece of self censorship caught my eye.

I play a popular video game; a lot. In fact I run a small group of about 40ish people that play the game which consists of about 10 million players world-wide. So yeah, I get it -- we can see a lot of people from different backgrounds. The game is a fantasy game and essentially about killing your opponents. We stab them with swords, use dark magic and in my particular case I control demons that fight along side of me. People die, we laugh at them. Good times.

To coordinate all this, we use a VOIP system so we can all talk, listen and joke about various aspects of the game. Occasionally a profanity is spoken; "F***, did you see that guy get ****ed up the *** when we came around the corner?" Anyone that is concerned at all about this language spilling over into earshot of their family generally wears headphones.

Recently, we had a guy that we had been leveling up and working with to make him better, leave our group due to language issues. Not the F-bomb or anything you normally wouldn't hear on TV, but rather the phrase "g-- damn" (which the FCC takes no opinion on and is frequently used on TV with no issues whatsoever [unless you're Sally Fields]).

Now, I could see this if we were in church or even a openly public setting where an (in my opinion) conservative person might not want to be exposed to things like that, but remember the circumstances here. He was offended that we were using the "lord's name in vain". So, just to contrast, while in hellphish's quote he has written "godd***", I've written "g-- damn", which brings me back to what triggered this off-topic post to begin with. BTW, yes, I am sensitive to certain religious teachings in which the name of the deity can't be written on anything non-permanent which is why I generally use my version if I'm concerned at all.

Comments?

Is the guy nuts to expect people to conform to his standards or are we insensitive for using the phrase under these circumstances?
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Last edited by quade; 01-30-2008 at 06:39 PM..
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:37 PM   #2
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I do not believe in censoring the word god! That goes against freedom of speech. Any political view that is for censoring the word god is also for abolishing the freedom of speech. Allowing people to use the word god is much different than preaching. I do not believe in people randomly preaching god.

But preaching and saying the name are two diferent things. I think preaching is disrespectful. I do believe you can share your views without preaching. As far as the word god goes I have no problem with someone substituting the word god for say Allah or Buddha or any other higher being.

But to say that we have to refrain from saying something just because some odd person could be offended because of their own ignorance is not an idea I agree with. Swearing should be monitored because there are young people around. Saying god or Allah, or whatever should not be monitored.

There is a major difference between saying something offensive and saying something that could offend someone. I am against saying something offensive on this forum or anywhere else (although we all do it occasionally), I am not against saying something that could offend someone.

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Old 01-30-2008, 07:22 PM   #3
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Freedom of speech is all well and good, however, since you are on a private system, you must abide by the rules of those that are in control. Freedom of speech is a much overused phrase, just like another one I was chastised for using just recently. Having freedom of speech does NOT entitle one to say whatever they want, where ever they want to. Just as one example, try yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre, and see what happens to you. Since this is a private forum, you are obligated to follow the rules that are set out. If you don't wish to follow the rules, then take your language or whatever elsewhere, as you won't be welcomed here.

Years ago when I helped run a Bulletin Board System, we had people trying to claim they had a "right" to be on the system. They quickly found out that they had NO rights at all, and the same would apply here. You are a guest here.

If you were to come into my house and use language that I deemed inappropriate, you would rapidly find yourself on the other side of the door, and most likely without much care being taken to ensure that you feel welcome to return.

Jim
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Old 01-30-2008, 07:47 PM   #4
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Default the F bomb and other nuclear weapons

Being from Brooklyn, NY "F***" isnt a curse, its a comma.
Personally My feeling is they are just words, and words cannot hurt.
If you're offended by words, then you have bigger issues to deal with.

now get the **** off this ****ing system, and get a G*d D*MM Life!
(grin)

Have a nice day

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Old 01-30-2008, 07:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkie View Post
Freedom of speech... blah blah... blah blah... blah blah...
All your points are valid, Jim, about this being a private board, etc., etc., etc.

Except, of course, it's not YOUR private board and, therefore, not up to you to set the rules.

When Pam, or John, or one of the other owner/moderators feels the need to chastise someone for content and/or language in their postings, I'm sure they'll make their displeasure known at that time.

Until that time... if you see a word, or a phrase, or something that disturbs your sensibilities... see that little "x" up in the right hand corner of your screen?

Click it.

Last edited by Outside2; 01-30-2008 at 08:01 PM..
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkie View Post
If you were to come into my house and use language that I deemed inappropriate, . . .
I think you missed the point.

We didn't go into the player's house, he came into ours.

(Well, ok, technically nobody went anywhere, but he joined our VOIP server.)
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkie View Post
Freedom of speech is all well and good, however, since you are on a private system, you must abide by the rules of those that are in control. Freedom of speech is a much overused phrase, just like another one I was chastised for using just recently. Having freedom of speech does NOT entitle one to say whatever they want, where ever they want to. Just as one example, try yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre, and see what happens to you. Since this is a private forum, you are obligated to follow the rules that are set out. If you don't wish to follow the rules, then take your language or whatever elsewhere, as you won't be welcomed here.

Years ago when I helped run a Bulletin Board System, we had people trying to claim they had a "right" to be on the system. They quickly found out that they had NO rights at all, and the same would apply here. You are a guest here.

If you were to come into my house and use language that I deemed inappropriate, you would rapidly find yourself on the other side of the door, and most likely without much care being taken to ensure that you feel welcome to return.

Jim
I apologize I was speaking more in general. As Eric said, however, it is not you or anyone elses (except the mods/owners) say as to what can be said and can't. I am not aware of any rule that prohibits the word god. Now let's use a common example.

This is one we can all agree with. I am going to use the example of homosexuals. Many homosexuals feel that they can not express their sexuality for fear of offending others and getting violently attacked. This is what causes some to stay in "the closet" and they cannot be fee to be themselves.

Eric, I have to say, I commend you for coming out and being so open about your sexuality. I appreciate that you are brave enough to clearly say that you are gay and proud! My mom has to keep it secret. If people where she lives found out she would be lynched (and I'm being serious the previous town her house got burned down we think it was a hate crime but the police never caught who did it).

But my example, getting back on topic, is how homosexuals should not need to hide their true colors just because some ignorant bafoon may get offended. Now if they are going to the Bush residence and expect a warm welcome it is difference. They should be able to be openly passionate with each other in public though and those ignorant biggots who find it offending should keep their mouths shut and hands in their pocket!

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Old 01-30-2008, 09:21 PM   #8
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This is an interesting thread... And I have to be transparent to say that I have a personal sensibility and offense-o-meter that is quite liberal (in addition to other liberal sensibilities). Regardless of my sensibilities, Pam, John and I often receive private messages / reported posts from folks who are offended at things being said on the forums, many times (more often than not), no "offensive" words are used, and quite frankly - again - our interpretation of the offending post was obviously different than the one who took offense.

So what we do is to pool our collective brains, look at the big picture and take action.

I think the overarching theme in all this is for all of us to continue to behave like adults and use acceptable language. My rule of thumb is this (and it has been worded many other ways in many contexts): if you wouldn't say it in the company of people you didn't know well, don't say it here. The "it" can be words, phrases, etc.

Its all about civility.

There was a string of months mid to late last year when Pam, John and I were busier than ever putting out fires, and preventing a lot more than we had to put out, but hopefully those days are over...

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Old 01-30-2008, 09:37 PM   #9
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Personally, I have found that swearing / profanity is not necessary. One can express oneself without it. GENERALLY I have found that the more educated person swears less than one who is not as educated.

Since we get used to what is "appropriate" in our native area it can offend someone who is not used to it. For example - I grew up not eating monkey brains for dinner. Serving it would probably make me ill. However if that is what you grew up around you would not be offended.

Hence the "New Yorkers" saying that they are not offended. The problem is that in this world that is "shrinking" in size because we can all be a "family" without being near each other one needs to be aware of things that might ofend others and determine - what is the necessity of swearing.

If that is the only way to play the game then this person did what they needed to do. Their gain or loss. You decided NOT to censor your language even though it might cause you to lose this player.

Personally - when i am around people that swear a lot I usually leave as well. If they pass gas regularly - same thing. Belch - same thing. I usually choose more "pleasant" places to frequent.
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:02 PM   #10
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A couple reflections.

On the OP question, I believe that as moderator of that group, you get to set the tone for that group, and set the rules of behaviour. You set them, and enforced them.

If a person is offended by you guys breaking one of the commandments, that is his right. If he chooses to be offended and still stay, that is his right as well, as long as he does not choose to break the rules of the group, which apparently do not include the commandments.

I do not think he was right or wrong, but simply exercising his rights of free association. I believe that the same document that guarentees all United States citizens the right to free speach also guarentees them the right to associate with whom they please.

If you tried to convince him that he should tolerate what he did not like, or he tried to censure your expression, while not being a moderator, then who is right or wrong would be a more valid topic.

With regard to whether a person feels it is more offensive to hear the f bomb, or the lords name in vane, or being called a coward, or any number of other things, that evaluation has got to be done by the person themselves, and they need to decide if it is worth the abuse.

I know of men here who were sexually harrassed by another man and the moderators took no action. I fully believe that the exact same words used against a woman would have been expunged. I know of people who have been verbally assaulted here, and no one in authority chose to act, and other times where a far lesser insult (in my opinion, of course) were acted upon right away, with a heavy hand!

The other thing to consider is that most of the moderators here are volunteers (to the best of my knowledge) and some things just get missed, and some people engender more of a protective reacton from the moderators than others... Remember, the moderators are just people as well, and things can rub them the wrong way as much as anyone else, so regardless of how much they want to be objective, that simply does not exist.

To use the analogy that this is like being in someone's house is valid. In my home, some things are tollerated, and some are not. On some days, I can be pushed further than on other days. My family and in-laws have different rules (actually same rules differently enforced, due to the fact that afterwards I have to live with my wife) and friends are on a different set as well... I suspect that if one of my wife's ex boyfirends came by, we would see a whole new set of behaviour guidelines, and I cannot imagine the rules my daughter's first date will be forced to tollerate...

All I am saying is that while consistancy is nice, it is hard, and this is not a public place, but a private one.

I find ad hominem attacks more offensive than vulgar adjectives. Each of us is different.
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