Situation in Israel

[ZoliHonig]

I was just curious what everyone was thinking about the current situation that is going on in Israel/ Lebanon/ Gaza....

[pam]

I'm praying for everyone caught up as innocent bystanders in the situation, Zoli. Or are you asking if I have a judgment about who is right and who is wrong?

I have some disconnected thoughts... Those who live by the sword, die by the sword - I think truer words were probably never written.

I know that I don't understand whole cultures that base their behaviors on some slight they perceived, possibly generations ago, and are willing to kill for it, rather than find some way to work together. In my book, killing doesn't achieve anything, except incite the other side to more killing until one side or the other is blasted off the face of the earth.

Nor do I understand politicians who use that kind of "nationalism" or "religion" to whip young members into killing behaviors for political reasons.

My God requires compassion and love, not death and destruction, so I have to admit, I don't understand it.

I'm just praying we don't end up with a conflagration that spreads across the region.

Pam

[Desert_Seg]

Couple of points:

1. Thanks to the various messages I have gotten regarding my well being. Well appreciated but....Beirut is a little over 3.5 hours away BY AIR from where I sit right now, so no, I'm not in danger.

2. Beirut is a beautiful city and Lebanon is a wonderful country. Have visited both many times and love both. In fact, my last girlfriend and the last bottle of wine I opened were both Lebanese!

3. It hurts to know that all the work that had gone into redeveloping the BCD (Beirut Central District), to redeveloping Hamra and Verdan (home of the region's (if not the world's) busiest Starbucks), to redeveloping the Beirut Tourism Industry, is now being destroyed, all over a stupid act.

4. Israel is also a beautiful country and has some beautiful cities, including Haifa, Jerusalem, and Tel Aviv all of which I've visited more than once. I have also had Israeli wine but have yet to have an Israeli girlfriend.

5. It is very bothersome is that these two countries, whose people most definitely want to live in peace, with others and with each other, are being used as pawns by the Hezbollah in a battle that has no end and no winner.

6. Unfortunately, I was in Haifa the last time it got shelled, and, also unfortunatley, the last time I was in Tel Aviv, as I was walking to a mall (less than 5 minutes away) when a suicide bomber detonated himself, causing countless deaths and grieveous damage.

So, while I deplore the damage that is being wrought upon Lebanon and the Lebanese people, I also understand the actions taken by Israel. No, I don't think they are excessive, they are the actions needed in order to ensure that the Hezbollah understands that for every action there is an equal but quite possibly much graver reaction.

Hezbollah made a grievous mistake in kidnapping those two soldiers, an act they said they had been plannig for 5 months. Unfortunately, it is time to pay the piper and the people of Lebanon are suffering.

Having traveled throughout Lebanont, including the Bekka Valley, and having many friends who currently live in Lebanon, in Beirut, and even in Tripoli (the one in Lebanon, not Libya), I am regularly seeking information on them.

Having many Lebanese friends whose parents are still in Lebanon, I'm constantly trying to help them find out their status.

But, more importnatnly, knowing how much Israelis and Lebanese so much want peace, so much want to live together, so much want to
end this madness, I'm constantly in dialogue with many individuals who all believe as I do.

This tit for tat has to stop, but when and how is not anticipated soon.

As an Arabist this pains me because the Arab people are being tarred with a brush they don't deserve. As a humanist, I only wish we could find a way to eradicate this extremism.

As Mahatma Ghandi said "An Eye for and Eye and the world will soon be blind". Unfortunately, both sides are going to exact their pound of flesh and I don't soon see an end to this sad mark on our history.

Steven

[Sal]

Originally Posted by Desert_Seg

As Mahatma Ghandi said "An Eye for and Eye and the world will soon be blind". Unfortunately, both sides are going to exact their pound of flesh and I don't soon see an end to this sad mark on our history.

Steven

Amen to that. Gandhi is a hero of mine. Not only was I born in his country, but I also admire the work that his family and his supporters did for freedom, and development in India.

I hope that peace finds it's way into the Middle East as well as the rest of the world.

He also said the following:

"As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world - that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves. "

-Sal

[GyroGo]

Originally Posted by Sal

Gandhi is a hero of mine.

Gandhi is a hero to me, too. The Palestinians made more progress gaining Gaza and the West Bank with hopes of peace than will ever be gained through terror and force. It is ignorant and short-sighted to think that terror will accomplish the desired political goals, rather than further entrench Israelis in their resentment and fear, even if you discount the lack of honor, morality, and ethics in each attack that is without regard to civilian casualty. Abbas could have accomplished more than a thousand Hezbollah missles hitting civilian areas in Israel.

Hamas and the Hezbollah are not very concerned with selecting military targets and operating under the conventional moral and ethical rules of military engagement. Israel's military certainly presents enough visible targets but it is easier to target civilians. Kidnaping soldiers in "peace time" is certainly not acceptable and clearly a provocation of war.

It seems clear to most Americans that Israel is acting within her rights of self-defense. There are horrible human tragedies that are the result of even the most competently calculated and executed military actions, especially when the enemy combatants mix themselves in civilian populations. While there are undoubtedly painful tragedies resulting from Israel’s military actions, it does appear that Israel makes a conscientious effort to select military targets and minimize "collateral" damage.

In a perfect world we would all live together in peace with respect and trust for one another (because "love" is just WAY TOO PERFECT to ask for). But, sadly, this does not seem to be a dream with a basis in reality. It appears inevitable that countries like Iran will eventually have nuclear weapons. Stephen Hawking says we need to colonize space to help ensure the survival of our species. I fear that he is right.

[Desert_Seg]

I'd like to add one thing to this topic.

In almost every discussion I have had with Arabs, including many of Lebanese and Palestinian descent, the great majority have blamed Hezbollah, hope that Israel won't stop until they reach the Syrian border in the North / West and the Hezbollah are routed.

Intersting the "reception" that the Hezbollah is receiving here!

Steven

[GyroGo]

I'm really no scholar of the region, but it does appear that the Lebanese people would be a beneficiary of a weaker Hezbollah.

[Sal]

Originally Posted by Desert_Seg

I'd like to add one thing to this topic.

In almost every discussion I have had with Arabs, including many of Lebanese and Palestinian descent, the great majority have blamed Hezbollah, hope that Israel won't stop until they reach the Syrian border in the North / West and the Hezbollah are routed.

Intersting the "reception" that the Hezbollah is receiving here!

Steven

This is not the perception that is put forth by the media / current administration. This administration (or the media's spin) wants to make it seem like it's Arab vs. Israel / West, which I know is not the case.

My mother and father have plenty of friends in the Middle East both Jewish and Muslim, on both sides, and Steven you're right on. The majority of folks are merely caught in the middle of extremist fighting, that is the real story which needs to be told.

-Sal

[pam]

What I recently heard (whether it is true or not, I don't know... we can't trust what we hear on the news anymore) - is that Hezbollah took the soldiers so that they would have someone to trade for prisoners currently held by Israel, and Israel finally said, "enough." -

It's a very convoluted poltical situation there, and with Newt Gingrich running around calling it WWIII, it's not making me breathe a little easier.

Pam

[Sal]

Originally Posted by pam

What I recently heard (whether it is true or not, I don't know... we can't trust what we hear on the news anymore) - is that Hezbollah took the soldiers so that they would have someone to trade for prisoners currently held by Israel, and Israel finally said, "enough." -

It's a very convoluted poltical situation there, and with Newt Gingrich running around calling it WWIII, it's not making me breathe a little easier.

Pam

I read that... for all who missed it: All the relevant links are in this post:

http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/53048

-Sal