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Old 11-28-2007, 12:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by bentbiker View Post
I wonder if something could be wrong with your base. That is, err, your Segway's base.
I have a near 100% confidence the unit is operating as designed.

That said, I don't think the designers either imagined or took in account 100% of all curb cuts that exist in the "real world".

The issue that I believe exists is when the sidewalk is high enough, the ramp is steep enough, the road is crowned enough and the unit rolls on the roll axis enough that it sets up a brief yaw oscillation. I am nearly 100% convinced that at the right speeds the device is simply given enough conflicting information and tries to over correct for one thing just slightly after the next that it is enough to throw the rider. My belief is that the LSF is actually the culprit here and that if the device was not getting the "back and forth" information provided from it the condition wouldn't exist.

This exact same curb cut would be trivial for a bicycle to negotiate.

If you'd like to test it out, I've included one that I now know can be a problem and it's a fairly repeatable test too!
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File Type: zip Try this heading east.zip (850 Bytes, 20 views)
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quade View Post
I have a near 100% confidence the unit is operating as designed.
It seems you think it was designed to tackle any obstacle you can throw at it. It isn't.

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Originally Posted by quade View Post
That said, I don't think the designers either imagined or took in account 100% of all curb cuts that exist in the "real world".
No, you're right. They only took into account 100% of some curb cuts, not all of them.

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Originally Posted by quade View Post
The issue that I believe exists is when the sidewalk is high enough, the ramp is steep enough, the road is crowned enough and the unit rolls on the roll axis enough that it sets up a brief yaw oscillation. I am nearly 100% convinced that at the right speeds the device is simply given enough conflicting information and tries to over correct for one thing just slightly after the next that it is enough to throw the rider. My belief is that the LSF is actually the culprit here and that if the device was not getting the "back and forth" information provided from it the condition wouldn't exist.
Ok, stop right here. Quade, you're doin' it wrong! First of all, you need to slow down. The LeanSteer system isn't designed to let you hit all bumps at whichever angle and speed you please. It is designed to turn the machine and to take into account variations in terrain. A side effect is that it lets the tires stay on the ground more often than on a gen1 machine. Second, you need to keep the LeanSteer assembly parallel to your body. If you are doing this properly, there isn't any turning information applied and thus zero yaw. You say you hit a curb cut with a steep ramp at near full speed, I'm not surprised you flew off either. Slow down and watch your safety DVD again.

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This exact same curb cut would be trivial for a bicycle to negotiate.
Irrelevant. A freaking set of stairs is trivial for a mountain bike to ACSEND. All you are saying is that a bike is different than a Segway. Thanks, Sherlock. Strange that you imply they should have the same abilities. I can ride a wheelie on my bike for about 200 feet. I can't ride on one wheel on my segway for more than a few feet, because holy crap, they are different devices.

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Originally Posted by quade View Post
If you'd like to test it out, I've included one that I now know can be a problem and it's a fairly repeatable test too!
You don't need to zip a .kmz file. KMZ is already a zipped .kml file, and by zipping it again you are making the file bigger because of the extra overhead of the ZIP format, and you are potentially exposing the userbase to viruses. Cut it out. Just attach the .KMZ.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:23 PM   #13
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You don't need to zip a .kmz file. KMZ is already a zipped .kml file, and by zipping it again you are making the file bigger because of the extra overhead of the ZIP format, and you are potentially exposing the userbase to viruses. Cut it out. Just attach the .KMZ.
For whatever reason . . . Segway Chat won't let me attach a .kmz file to a post. It says the file type is not allowed. Maybe you can show me how it's done?

See attachment to see what I see as far as file types go. Nowhere in the list does it have .kmz as an acceptable file type nor does it appear to ever want to let me upload one.
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File Type: jpg FileTypes.jpg (47.8 KB, 10 views)
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Last edited by quade; 11-28-2007 at 03:48 PM..
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:26 PM   #14
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The LeanSteer system isn't designed to let you hit all bumps at whichever angle and speed you please. It is designed to turn the machine and to take into account variations in terrain.
(bolding mine for emphasis)

Yes. I also maintain that is part of the problem.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:34 PM   #15
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Quade...

Why do you have a Segway, since you apparently dislike them so much? In all your postings, recently, it seems to be negative toward either the disabled using Segways in crowded area, since the Segway isn't to be trusted... or your Segway doesn't do/isn't performing in some situation exactly how you want it to do/perform.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:47 PM   #16
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Quade...

Why do you have a Segway, since you apparently dislike them so much?
Obviously because I fit into one of the two groups I previously mentioned . . . perhaps with a bit of overlap between the sets.


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In all your postings, recently, it seems to be negative toward either the disabled using Segways in crowded area, since the Segway isn't to be trusted...
Ever see "The Point"? In it there is a character that makes a fairly wise observation, "You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear." YOU have taken the position that I am against yours. Because of that, YOU see in my posts only the things YOU think are negative or against it. I can't really help that except to point out that you're simply wrong. I have recent posts about; a get together this weekend in OC, a question about the absolute duration of the device while in idle and another talking about a distance record.


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or your Segway doesn't do/isn't performing in some situation exactly how you want it to do/perform.
My Segway performs exactly the way it was designed. Nothing more, nothing less. I've observed and have written about one particular thing that I believe is a design flaw; the way the LSF gives inputs to the system in certain ways that can cause it to go into yaw oscillation. That doesn't stop me from enjoying the device. Nor is this a zero sum game or in black and white. I can like the device except for a few idiosyncratic items. I can be against the device in certain situations and still appreciate the fact that you are simply trying to get along with life. I don't hate you because you're trying to use it. I wish you could separate your hate from me simply because I'm trying to point out why I don't think that's a good idea in every situation.
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Last edited by quade; 11-28-2007 at 04:01 PM..
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:11 PM   #17
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Ur doin it wrong.

Please take some danged pictures of the curb cut in question, from as many angles as you can. Until then, everyone can safely assume you just don't know what you are doing when you're on the platform.
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quade View Post
The issue that I believe exists is when the sidewalk is high enough, the ramp is steep enough, the road is crowned enough and the unit rolls on the roll axis enough that it sets up a brief yaw oscillation. I am nearly 100% convinced that at the right speeds the device is simply given enough conflicting information and tries to over correct for one thing just slightly after the next that it is enough to throw the rider. My belief is that the LSF is actually the culprit here and that if the device was not getting the "back and forth" information provided from it the condition wouldn't exist.

This exact same curb cut would be trivial for a bicycle to negotiate.

If you'd like to test it out, I've included one that I now know can be a problem and it's a fairly repeatable test too!
I was misunderstanding the challenge. I thought your concern was while traversing a sidewalk mid-block with curb cuts for driveways, so that the wheel closer to the road would drop more than the wheel farthest from the road. Your example is actually going down a ramp while turning first right and then left and then abruptly rising once in the street because of the crown. I can't say I take those at 10 mph; whenever street entry is involved, I admit I usually slow significantly.

Judge, I withdraw my objection and request a continuance to allow evaluation of the new evidence.
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:52 AM   #19
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I wonder if something could be wrong with your base. That is, err, your Segway's base. Like Pete, I am impressed at how well mine handles curb cuts at 8-10 mph. As long as I maintain the same angle on the LSF with respect to gravity as I had before the cut, it immediately senses that the angle of the LSF to the platform is only because of the equal angle of the platform with respect to level, and provides no added steering input. Like magic.
John's post exactly echos my experience with lean steer. I've gone through transitions with the i2 that would have thrown me off the i180. It is as close to magic as machines get.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:00 AM   #20
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Hehe . . . I gotta take you on a tour of Santa Ana and Tustin.
I used to live in Santa Ana. I just came back from a long weekend with the i2 in San Diego. I took a long glide through North Park on Saturday night to see friends, going over buckled sidewalks and sketchy curb cuts that made Santa Ana look like Beverly Hills by comparison. Not a single moment of bad behavior or instability from the i2. It was one of the more memorable and satisfying glides I've had in a while, as I felt it really proved the merit of the lean steer design.

I really don't understand what you're referring to....
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