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Old 11-14-2017, 10:32 AM   #191
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Default Green Light / Red Light / Green Light . . .

As of late when Trigger is plugged in the rear light will go green at initial plugin, then at some later time the rear goes red. Unplug/replug, green; however, later it goes red again. Unplug/replug, green light then red. Repeat.

Contacted MTO and Lorie said:
"The battery that is doing this is likely to be a Rev.A4 or early version of Rev.AF. Segway had some BMS within these revisions that would do this at the very end of charge instead of the normal blinking lights. We have noticed this occur within our facility sometimes and is certainly unpredictable when or if it will occur. You are correct, the charging cycle is not effected and as long as you are using a timer you should not experience any negative experience from it. If you would ever plug it in directly (without the timer) you would be at risk of the battery over discharging as it is not charging once the light goes red. Long story short, keep it on the timer and you should be good to go. Have a great day."

Good news for Trigger as Li-Ions are expensive. MTO rebuilds are better! Nonetheless, as an additional check, I decided to switch front to rear, rear to front to see if it made any difference. It had been six (6) months since the last switch anyway and I think the switch is proper maintenance to maximize long term battery viability. So far after the switch, no red light. My conclusion is that the problem is probably local to the battery electronics (rev. A4 or AF as MTO referenced) and not Trigger. And, if I use the timer, no long term repercussions should occur as the charging cycle is restarted every few hours according to MTO's recommendation. So far, performance/distance does not appear to have been reduced with this green / red / green issue. But it remains a concern.

Has anyone else had this issue or information about it?

Last edited by Seginaway; 11-14-2017 at 11:07 AM.. Reason: added kudos to MTO for quality re-built Li-IOns
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:14 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seginaway View Post
As of late when Trigger is plugged in the rear light will go green at initial plugin, then at some later time the rear goes red. Unplug/replug, green; however, later it goes red again. Unplug/replug, green light then red. Repeat.

....

Has anyone else had this issue or information about it?
Yes, I have the same issue with one of my X2s, and I got the same advice. My experience agrees with yours, and I do use a timer (daily cycle).
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:21 AM   #193
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Default Green Light / Red Light / Green Light . . .

see above!

Last edited by Seginaway; 11-14-2017 at 11:37 AM.. Reason: incorrect usage of SegChat
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:36 AM   #194
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Default Green Light / Red Light / Green Light . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by dale@thecoys.net View Post
Yes, I have the same issue with one of my X2s, and I got the same advice. My experience agrees with yours, and I do use a timer (daily cycle).

Have you seen any performance reduction? Does it change if you switch the batteries front to rear, etc.?
Today 10:14 AM
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:38 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Seginaway View Post
Have you seen any performance reduction? Does it change if you switch the batteries front to rear, etc.?
Today 10:14 AM
Have not seen any performance reduction. And I haven't (yet) switched the batteries.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:55 PM   #196
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Default Battery Revisions . . .

If one has A4's or AF's (X2); can they be, should they be or do they need to be upgraded to a newer revision of the battery software?
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:24 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seginaway View Post

Contacted MTO and Lorie said:
"The battery that is doing this is likely to be a Rev.A4 or early version of Rev.AF. Segway had some BMS within these revisions that would do this at the very end of charge instead of the normal blinking lights. We have noticed this occur within our facility sometimes and is certainly unpredictable when or if it will occur. You are correct, the charging cycle is not effected and as long as you are using a timer you should not experience any negative experience from it. If you would ever plug it in directly (without the timer) you would be at risk of the battery over discharging as it is not charging once the light goes red. Long story short, keep it on the timer and you should be good to go. Have a great day."
I should also mention that, in my experience, using a timer, occasionally the battery that "goes red at the end of the charging cycle" decides to behave normally, and go blinking-green for a few day cycles.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:01 PM   #198
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Hi

I was a Segway dealer many years ago.

As I recall, with an early batch of batteries there was a marginal sensor within the BMS that falsely reported a fault, and it was usually a low temperature issue.

Again, as I recall, Segway decided not to bother changing / servicing / fixing those early batteries, as they were indeed functional.

There was a Service Bulletin about it, that I can probably dig up, if anybody really wants to see it.

I 'guess' that if MTO replaces cells in such a battery, that sensor issue will remain.

Cheers
Michael
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:12 PM   #199
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Default Temperature . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbint View Post
Hi

I was a Segway dealer many years ago.

As I recall, with an early batch of batteries there was a marginal sensor within the BMS that falsely reported a fault, and it was usually a low temperature issue. . .

Cheers
Michael
Did the service bulletin offer any corrective actions?

Trigger was a very "early" X2 (Nov. 2016). Rev. A4 & AF batteries that are MTO rebuilds with 3,500 miles since rebuild along with Triggers total 11,000+ miles.

If it is a "low temperature (sensor) issue", my next action is to increase the garage temperature from current 60F to 65F (step up as necessary).

Another MTO response which may be pertinent:
It could mean that the one output on your charger is slightly higher than the other side. If the tolerances are opposing between the BMS and the charger I suppose it would be possible for the error to go away by switching. By opposing tolerances I mean if the over charge voltage setting in the BMS is set to 80V and your one charger side is putting out 80.1V the red light could occur. It is also quite possible that the red light will re-occur either way as we have definitely seen our fair share of it in the past with those revisions. Regardless of the source of the issue, I would still recommend rotating the batteries and to continue using the timer. . .

I've switched the batteries front to back, back to front and after a few days the Red light has again re-appeared.

Again, as long as I unplug/replug the Red light goes away (for a while) and I haven't seen any degradation in gliding performance. I'm ok with the unplug/replug while the timer accomplishes the same, but I still have concerns and am worried about the long term viability of a very integral and expensive item(s).

Thanks for the info everybody. Glide on!!!!!
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Old 12-27-2017, 02:34 AM   #200
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One of my favorite Segway things:

https://youtu.be/vLtTaQnVv8U

It's on the way to the Camarillo Farmer's Market- reminds me of a Disneyland ride!
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