Here's one for the silent majority.

[Five-Flags]

Originally Posted by quade

... The article in question would pretty much never hold up as actionable in a Court of Military Justice.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I was not saying that that article was contemptuous, I merely referred to her as an example of a retired officer who would still be subject to the UCMJ and who could be prosecuted thereunder, rather than in civilian courts.

[KSagal]

I am impressed with the expert analysis of the UCMJ. I did not know we have a military legal eagle among us. Regardless of that, Military folks and she is one, do not have the same constitutional protections that civilians have, but other ones as specified in the UCMJ. I is a common mistake to confuse the two, as common knowledge about constitutional issues which are often wrong, are even more often wrong when mistakenly applied to those under the UCMJ.

As far as Starship Troopers being a favorite film of anyone, I am sorry, but that is a sad statement. There really are far better films out there. Just check out any high school AV team.

On the issue of military service being required for citizenship... It is clearly not. I have posted several times in this thread that I believe that everyone should contribute, but there are many ways to do so, and military service is but one choice. I believe it to be a good one, but I did list other ones...

Now, all you folks on the left side of everything, hold you hats...

I believe that the country would be better with 100% conscription. THat is a manditory draft. Every person, after high school, before anything else. maybe 18 months.

If a person does not want to serve in the military, for personal reasons, that is fine, work in a hospital, or in a federal park, or any number of other institutions that better the country. I believe if more people invested thier own time and effort into this country, then it would be a place more folks would invest their efforts in later as well. We would have more people vote, more people get into local service organizations who help the society to prosper, and those who have challenges that have overwhelmed them.

One of our biggest problems in this country, in my opinion, is the monday morning quarterbacking. Everyone has an opinion, and a reason why this person or that did it wrong. What we need more are people who take the time to demonstrate how to do it better.

[quade]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I am impressed with the expert analysis of the UCMJ. I did not know we have a military legal eagle among us.

By design, it's pretty basic stuff and simply written so that just about anyone, from fresh recruit to Commander in Chief, can understand it. There aren't supposed to be any "gotchas" in it. It's not a "tricky" document. It certainly doesn't take a legal expert to see the article in question just doesn't apply to the passage quoted by Five-Flags.

No. I'm certainly not a legal expert on the UCMJ, but this also isn't my first exposure to the document by any means.

[quade]

I've broken this part out separately because, well . . . I find it hilarious.

Originally Posted by KSagal

Now, all you folks on the left side of everything, hold you hats...

I believe that the country would be better with 100% conscription. THat is a manditory draft. Every person, after high school, before anything else. maybe 18 months.

Then later he writes . . .

One of our biggest problems in this country, in my opinion, is the monday morning quarterbacking.

Hehe . . . Karl, ya crack me up.

Ya can't have it both ways. Ya can't tell people they live in the land of the free and then have conscription when the country isn't actually at war.

Further, it's hilarious that you point out that there's too much "monday morning quarterbacking" when in fact, that's just what you did in the same post.

[macgeek]

I posted a long missive, were I kinda went off on Karl,
The admins here removed it (rightly so) and asked me to "cool my jets"

That said



Karl. All of a sudden we are the "left" which means you are "Right"
I think you need to check your constituency.

You are CONSTANTLY telling us all who have an opinion that does not agree with YOUR
beliefs to "stop attacking you", Because your opinion is so very "right". and we are So
very wrong... (or very left, I am not sure)

That "S" word has been bandied about lately quite alot,
and to paraphrase Alanis morissette when I think of that word your face pops
into my mind with a Vengeance...

your losing the tiny respect I still have for you, please stop.. please.

Jonathan

Originally Posted by KSagal

... (a)s far as Starship Troopers being a favorite film of anyone, I am sorry, but that is a sad statement....

Ah, but some of our other favorite films might make our selection of this one a little more clear:

Plan 9 from Outer Space
Deep Impact
Groundhog Day
Spaceballs
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
Superman III: The One with Richard Pryor
Legally Blonde 2: Red, White and Blonde

Beginning to see a trend? We enjoy really bad films that everyone making the film just couldn't see how bad it was, focusing instead on their projected royalties.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by quade

I've broken this part out separately because, well . . . I find it hilarious.



Then later he writes . . .



Hehe . . . Karl, ya crack me up.

Ya can't have it both ways. Ya can't tell people they live in the land of the free and then have conscription when the country isn't actually at war.

Further, it's hilarious that you point out that there's too much "monday morning quarterbacking" when in fact, that's just what you did in the same post.

I suppose for those who understand the language and certain phrases differently than I, I will define what I mean by Monday morning quarterbacking...

First off, I need to remind anyone who cares, that I did not suggest anything that I did not do. I would not suggest something is good for others to do, if I had not thought it was good enough for me to do.

I taught skydiving for over a decade. If someone asks my opinion on a skydive, it is not monday morning quarterbacking. It is sharing my experience. My personal experience.

Now, for my understanding of monday morning quarterbacking... I believe it refers to people who sit and watch something happening on Sunday ( in this example, a football game on television) and then the next day, they tell their friends and workmates what the quarterback should have done. They speak from the experience level of having WATCHED several football games.

If a person who knows something or has done something speaks of their experience, it is different. If a person is talking to Terry Bradshaw, or Fran Tarkenten, or Joe Nameth, they are not monday morning quarterbacking, but sharing their experiences with you...

Personally, I vote, I have served in the military, I am active in town government, I am active in my son's school, and many other aspects of my children's lives, and the community at large.

If I offer my experiences, it is not monday morning quarterbacking. If I offer suggestions on what President Bush should have said in last year's state of the union address, or what Jon should have done the last time he was ticketed for segging in NYC, that might be better examples of monday morning quarterbacking. (Unless opinions are solicited)

Originally Posted by macgeek

I posted a long missive, were I kinda went off on Karl,
The admins here removed it (rightly so) and asked me to "cool my jets"

That said



Karl. All of a sudden we are the "left" which means you are "Right"
I think you need to check your constituency. I never said anything of the sort. If you feel you are the "left", good for you. Feel secure in your beliefs, do not feel threated by the term.

You are CONSTANTLY telling us all who have an opinion that does not agree with YOUR
beliefs to "stop attacking you", Because your opinion is so very "right". and we are So
very wrong... (or very left, I am not sure) This of course, not true. I tell people who attack me they are attacking me. I tell people who do not aggree with me that they do not aggree. IT is not the same thing. I will put two people on the spot. Eric and Jeremy rarely agree with me, yet do not attack me. Just because we often do not see the world the same way, does not mean that we have to be rude to eachother, and we are not.

Hiding a rude behaviour behind the false assertion that by disagreeing I am considering it an attack is disengenous.

Any one who feels this applies to them is welcome to.

That "S" word has been bandied about lately quite alot,
and to paraphrase Alanis morissette when I think of that word your face pops
into my mind with a Vengeance...

your losing the tiny respect I still have for you, please stop.. please.

Jonathan

It surprises me that you feel I want your respect, or care about it at all. Your opinion about me and everything I do or say is clear. So are your many mischaracterations, which you know to be false, yet present them anyway.

There are some people on this forum that i know, it does not matter what i say. I am the bad guy, or the wrong guy. I understand that some people feel this way, and i am cool with it. I have no illusion that everyone here has an ear for what I have to say.

I could list those who I do not care or understand that anything I say is wasted. Most often I don't bother to respond to them. Sometimes I do not have that personal discipline. I know there are both those who have a value for what I say, and those who don't and those who wish I just went away. Sorry Charlie!

[quade]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I taught skydiving for over a decade. If someone asks my opinion on a skydive, it is not monday morning quarterbacking. It is sharing my experience. My personal experience.

Does your experience include you being involved with major revisions to the US Constitution, because certainly that is what mandatory conscription would mean.

Face it Karl, just about everybody feels at one point or another that they have a better idea. There's nothing wrong with voicing it. I just find it hilarious that you chastise others just for presenting ideas you don't personally agree with and yet somehow hold yourself above scrutiny on the subject.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by quade

Does your experience include you being involved with major revisions to the US Constitution, because certainly that is what mandatory conscription would mean.

Face it Karl, just about everybody feels at one point or another that they have a better idea. There's nothing wrong with voicing it. I just find it hilarious that you chastise others just for presenting ideas you don't personally agree with and yet somehow hold yourself above scrutiny on the subject.

I fear I am likely wasting my time trying to respond to this line of thought. So be it.

I am unaware of a constitutional change the last time there was a draft. Please educate me.

[quade]

The SCOTUS has said that a military draft in a time of war is allowable and is not in violation of the 13th Amendment and I think that would generally fly with the majority of the populace as well. However, what you have suggested, certainly does cross the line and clearly violates the 13th in that what you've proposed goes well outside the boundaries of military service during a time of war.

The 13th, ya know, the one about slavery and involuntary servitude.

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.