Diff between gen 1 and 2

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

Nice picture and demonstration.

It's not quite true that the Segway tries to stay level, though that's a good starting model. In fact, the faster you go, the more it tips back (speed limiter). Pushing the handlebars forward won't make it go, either, if you're standing on it. It'll end up making you lean back.

I've been trying to figure out a good way of describing it. The best I've come up with is that it tries to maintain a particular angle, depending on speed. That captures the immediate Segway part of it.

But when you add the human into the equation, it gets more subtle. Because as I said, if you push on the handlebars, it tips forward a bit, you tip back a bit. And then, it moves forward a bit, moving you back even more. And all you did was move forward a few inches and come to a stop, with a different weight distribution (more spread out), but still aligned with your CG over the contact patches.

Actually moving forward involves pushing back with your feet to rotate your weight forward. It's a lot like trying to describe how you enter a spin or a jump in figure skating, actually. In both cases, it's not that you just rotate. In order to rotate, you have to do a sequence of actions, with different moments of inertia. We do this so instinctively while walking or segging that it's really hard to think about what we do.

In fact, I'm not entirely sure exactly how we do it. I understand the space of possible ways, but what we specifically do is subtle. Walking is a LOT more complicated than it looks from a physics standpoint, too. In fact, it's more complicated than anything we've discussed here so far.

Or standing. Since my legs don't work well, I do most of my balancing with my upper body, which is how you learn to do it as a skater. But rotating around any axis is not a simple action. It's a sequence of actions that result in a change of position. You can't just create angular momentum.

Bob, you are a much nicer person than I am...

I am constantly amazed at just how small the world is... I have good leg strength, but due do a reconstruction of my right knee from an army injury, I have very little latteral stability in my right leg, for the last 30 years...

As a result, I have learned to walk and balance very differently than a person who does not have this particular issue... I frequently find myself using my upper body movements for balance, and of course, cannot pivot well on my feet or use the geometry and mechanics I was born with...

And just to prove how dense I am, I plan to lean forward as I walk to my car when I leave work in a little while.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by KSagal

Bob, you are a much nicer person than I am...

Not sure what prompted that, but thanks. I think?

Originally Posted by KSagal

And just to prove how dense I am, I plan to lean forward as I walk to my car when I leave work in a little while.

When you get back, tell us how you did it. How the forces all worked -- to keep you upright, and to move you forward.

I could do the analysis, given motion capture data, but I couldn't begin to capture the experience of walking, let alone translate it to words. Math, yes.

I haven't measured your density, but I do know you're complicated!

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

Not sure what prompted that, but thanks. I think?

When you get back, tell us how you did it. How the forces all worked -- to keep you upright, and to move you forward.

I could do the analysis, given motion capture data, but I couldn't begin to capture the experience of walking, let alone translate it to words. Math, yes.

I haven't measured your density, but I do know you're complicated!

I took the walk with no problem... Two people asked me if I hurt my back

It is kind of like running down hill. You just lean forward and then try to keep your feet under you...

As far as my density, I was referring to my stubbornness, but I am rather thick on several levels...

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I took the walk with no problem... Two people asked me if I hurt my back

It is kind of like running down hill. You just lean forward and then try to keep your feet under you...

As far as my density, I was referring to my stubbornness, but I am rather thick on several levels...

Oh! Are you OK?

You know,when you're walking, you're continually alternating between being off-balance one way or the other. It all has to average out...

I'm sure you've seen some toddlers who can't seem to walk at all -- just stand, or run, nothing in between. Sometimes it's harder to walk than run.

[wweens]

Thanks for all the information. From what I've been able to tell I'm not sure that anything less than the X2 would fit my needs. I have a large backyard with a very steep hill. It's all I can do to get my 21 HP Troybilt up it, altho it's a little weak in that it doesn't have a gearshift so won't pull hills like geared lawn-tractors do. The pathway up the hill is decomposed granite so it can be a little 'slippery'. I need to try some Segways, and I may try to locate one in the subdivision I live in (Pecan Plantation in Granbury, Texas) and try it on my hill. I think I'll pass on the guy's HT for $2200 because I don't know enough to make even that big of an investment. I'll keep researching, and I really appreciate the help I've received here. No PM have been sent to my email address. It may be that I haven't posted enough to be able to have that option.
Louis