Trolls, identified and deleted

W9GFO · 08-21-2003, 04:05 PM

Two trolls today, promptly deleted from existence.

Not sure how I feel about that. Maybe a bit too much moderation going on if those posts just vanish. They could be of value, perhaps move them to off-topic and lock them or at least announce that they have been caught and dealt with.

Rich H

ftropea · 08-21-2003, 04:09 PM

They weren't deleted.. just moved off to the side. If it turns out these posters are legit, the posts will be moved back into this forum.

I'm sorry if every action isn't documented. These two actions were noticeable.. but plenty aren't. It's a resource and time issue.. We have limited resources and little time.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

W9GFO · 08-21-2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ftropea

They weren't deleted.. just moved off to the side. If it turns out these posters are legit, the posts will be moved back into this forum.

Well, I am legit, and I have been effectively silenced. Many people, I think, consider this forum to be like a group of friends talking about common interests. I don't think it's fair that I, or anyone else, is "moved off to the side".

I respond to posts for a variety of reasons, one of which is that I like to research issues and post my findings. Discovering that Dr Martino Cortez was in fact trolling seemed to me to be a good find. I doubt that no more than two people were able to read my post before it was gone. That, to me is censorship.

Quote:

quote:
I'm sorry if every action isn't documented. These two actions were noticeable.. but plenty aren't.

Is it unreasonable to just lock the topic with a simple explanation?
That way those of us who did respond, even if it was a troll, won't feel censored.

I think actions that effectively remove what someone has posted deserve an explanation.

Rich H

ftropea · 08-21-2003, 05:26 PM

Well, I'll probably end up deleting the original posts by the trolls. There isn't a mechanism to delete the originating post and save the replies. What I can do, as an alternative, is copy and paste replies to a new thread. It's more "cleanup" work but I'm willing to do it if it'll assuage the perception of censorship.

If it makes sense, I'll create another public forum - and call it something like "trolls & flames" and recategorize posts to that location. That way we could preserve everyone's well thought out responses.

I won't leave these in the main forum. As far as I'm concerned, and unless the other moderators feel differently, leaving the garbage out in the living area - even if it's in a sealed bag - is not only unsightly, but is capable of stinking up the place.

As a side note - I do apologize for not sharing the mechanisms we have in place to identify troublemakers. Some of these mechanisms are only accessible by the admins.. and some by the moderators. This is proprietary info and I'm inclined to keep it that way. In the past, I haven't posted *how* we do it - but I assure you, we've been consistent and fair.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

W9GFO · 08-21-2003, 05:53 PM

Copying and pasting is too much work, why delete the original post? It just shows how quickly, politely and effectively trolls are dealt with. Of course, if they are belligerent or overly offensive then trashing them would be in order, there would be no value in keeping them. The two trolls today were relatively benign.

The initial trolls could be considered garbage, but after locking the thread it will soon pass out of sight and only be available to those that search for it. The replies made by the members are a testament to the helpfulness and resourcefulness of this group.

I've heard that going through one's garbage can yield clues as to how they live.

Rich H

ftropea · 08-21-2003, 06:03 PM

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The original posts were not deleted.

So I offered a solution in my previous post. Would that be acceptable?

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

W9GFO · 08-21-2003, 06:25 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ftropea

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The original posts were not deleted.

So I offered a solution in my previous post. Would that be acceptable?

You said;

Quote:

quote:
Well, I'll probably end up deleting the original posts by the trolls. There isn't a mechanism to delete the originating post and save the replies.

I interpreted that you intended to delete the original post made by the troll.

I don't think you should have to cut and paste. Without the originating post the replies are meaningless.

I think that you should leave the post as it is until it is identified as a troll. Then, lock it with the last post explaining why it has been locked. If no-one has relpied then just delete it.

If you have to, then move it to a troll/flame forum. Since it is locked and no-one can perpetuate the thread I don't see the harm in leaving it where it is. I would not be against moving it to a separate forum if that is what you need to do.

Rich H

pam · 08-25-2003, 08:02 AM

I personally think that giving tolls a place on this forum would simply open it up to more trolls.. and more discomfort. Why should we want to see people telling us we're idiots and the thing that we use and admire is idiotical?

And then we're going to have arguments among ourselves about whether a person is really a troll or just lacks knowledge about the product.

And then we'll have to open the board up to "flaming" behaviors on other threads because we've allowed it in that forum. Or we'll have people saying that person wasn't *really* flaming, just asserting their feelings.

As a forum member, not as a moderator, I vote for NOT running a troll/flame forum, and continuing to move the troll thread as Frank has done in the past. I'm here because I enjoy being in a flame-free environment.

I don't mind a certain amount of censorship, TBH, because it's a reality of life. Life censors us. Our jobs censor us. Our churches censor us, our government censors us, our very own sense of standards censors us. We hate it (unless we're doing the self-censoring, and sometimes we even hate that <G&gt

because we think that once we get to be adults we have the right to do basically what we want.

I think it's artifical to think we can construct a totally censor-free environment and still maintain a set of standards. If trolls realize their words will not be given a forum to voice their vitriol, I think they'll be more likely to stop.

That said, I'm sorry you felt cut off WFGO. *I* read your comments about the research you did to determine if that person was legit or not - a couple of times, as a matter of fact, as I checked in before the thread was moved. (But then, that said, I usually check the list several times a day).

JMHO
Pam

technonerd · 12-12-2003, 10:51 PM

I need to know something before I spend any more time on this site. Is Segwaychat only for people who approve of Segways anywhere and everywhere? Is anything else a troll?

Blinky · 12-12-2003, 11:07 PM

No.

08-21-2003, 04:05 PM	#1
W9GFO Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 758	Trolls, identified and deleted Two trolls today, promptly deleted from existence. Not sure how I feel about that. Maybe a bit too much moderation going on if those posts just vanish. They could be of value, perhaps move them to off-topic and lock them or at least announce that they have been caught and dealt with. Rich H

08-21-2003, 04:09 PM	#2
ftropea Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA. Posts: 1,778	They weren't deleted.. just moved off to the side. If it turns out these posters are legit, the posts will be moved back into this forum. I'm sorry if every action isn't documented. These two actions were noticeable.. but plenty aren't. It's a resource and time issue.. We have limited resources and little time. Regards, Frank A. Tropea Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

08-21-2003, 05:26 PM	#4
ftropea Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA. Posts: 1,778	Well, I'll probably end up deleting the original posts by the trolls. There isn't a mechanism to delete the originating post and save the replies. What I can do, as an alternative, is copy and paste replies to a new thread. It's more "cleanup" work but I'm willing to do it if it'll assuage the perception of censorship. If it makes sense, I'll create another public forum - and call it something like "trolls & flames" and recategorize posts to that location. That way we could preserve everyone's well thought out responses. I won't leave these in the main forum. As far as I'm concerned, and unless the other moderators feel differently, leaving the garbage out in the living area - even if it's in a sealed bag - is not only unsightly, but is capable of stinking up the place. As a side note - I do apologize for not sharing the mechanisms we have in place to identify troublemakers. Some of these mechanisms are only accessible by the admins.. and some by the moderators. This is proprietary info and I'm inclined to keep it that way. In the past, I haven't posted how we do it - but I assure you, we've been consistent and fair. Regards, Frank A. Tropea Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

08-21-2003, 05:53 PM	#5
W9GFO Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 758	Copying and pasting is too much work, why delete the original post? It just shows how quickly, politely and effectively trolls are dealt with. Of course, if they are belligerent or overly offensive then trashing them would be in order, there would be no value in keeping them. The two trolls today were relatively benign. The initial trolls could be considered garbage, but after locking the thread it will soon pass out of sight and only be available to those that search for it. The replies made by the members are a testament to the helpfulness and resourcefulness of this group. I've heard that going through one's garbage can yield clues as to how they live. Rich H

08-21-2003, 06:03 PM	#6
ftropea Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA. Posts: 1,778	Perhaps I wasn't clear. The original posts were not deleted. So I offered a solution in my previous post. Would that be acceptable? Regards, Frank A. Tropea Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

08-25-2003, 08:02 AM	#8
pam Last of the Early 30 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Yelm, WA Posts: 4,679	I personally think that giving tolls a place on this forum would simply open it up to more trolls.. and more discomfort. Why should we want to see people telling us we're idiots and the thing that we use and admire is idiotical? And then we're going to have arguments among ourselves about whether a person is really a troll or just lacks knowledge about the product. And then we'll have to open the board up to "flaming" behaviors on other threads because we've allowed it in that forum. Or we'll have people saying that person wasn't really flaming, just asserting their feelings. As a forum member, not as a moderator, I vote for NOT running a troll/flame forum, and continuing to move the troll thread as Frank has done in the past. I'm here because I enjoy being in a flame-free environment. I don't mind a certain amount of censorship, TBH, because it's a reality of life. Life censors us. Our jobs censor us. Our churches censor us, our government censors us, our very own sense of standards censors us. We hate it (unless we're doing the self-censoring, and sometimes we even hate that <G&gt because we think that once we get to be adults we have the right to do basically what we want. I think it's artifical to think we can construct a totally censor-free environment and still maintain a set of standards. If trolls realize their words will not be given a forum to voice their vitriol, I think they'll be more likely to stop. That said, I'm sorry you felt cut off WFGO. I read your comments about the research you did to determine if that person was legit or not - a couple of times, as a matter of fact, as I checked in before the thread was moved. (But then, that said, I usually check the list several times a day). JMHO Pam

12-12-2003, 10:51 PM	#9
technonerd Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: , , . Posts: 35	I need to know something before I spend any more time on this site. Is Segwaychat only for people who approve of Segways anywhere and everywhere? Is anything else a troll?

12-12-2003, 11:07 PM	#10
Blinky Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Matawan, New Jersey Posts: 2,114	No.

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