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Old 06-10-2012, 03:33 PM   #11
Bob.Kerns
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My mother's been there. See this thread:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/archive...p/t-24668.html

I hope she'll jump in with more current information.

File a complaint.
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Obviously, we can't have infinite voltage, or the universe would tear itself to shreds, and we wouldn't be discussing Segways.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns View Post
My mother's been there. See this thread:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/archive...p/t-24668.html

I hope she'll jump in with more current information.

File a complaint.
Gladly--and yes, file a complaint--on both of them! I have not been back to Silver Dollar City since then (much too expensive for my retirement budget) but maybe I need to! Anyone going to Branson? Let me know and we'll test it out together!

Let me tell you my story. I was there. I encountered only two problems-- first it was a "handicapped" restroom where there was room for the Seg--but not me. I was new enough to the whole thing that I didn't really realize that I should have complained to someone besides the attendant near by.

The second problem happened when --remember I was still pretty new to this-- I let one wheel run up over the 3-4" rocks that bordered a path and it flipped me. I got a scratch, the seg did not run into anyone else in the crowd. Someone called the medics, filled out reports, etc. so they should have a record of the incident.

This would have been three years ago--but I don't recall the exact date. The hills were not a problem at all. The crowd was not a problem--and has never been a problem anywhere I have used it (more on that in another post in a minute.)

If they are using this as an example of Segways being unsafe in a crowd, I will gladly testify to the DOJ that Silver Dollar City does not have a Segway crowd problem--they have a safety liability problem. Anyone could have stepped on one of those rocks in avoiding the crowd and broken an ankle. If I had known then what I know now, I would have pursued that point!

I had just heard a rumor that they were not letting Segs in--sorry to have it confirmed! If anyone needs my testimony to include with your complaint, you may contact me or copy this note.

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Last edited by Lily Kerns; 06-11-2012 at 01:28 AM..
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:18 AM   #13
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We were welcomed at Swope Park Zoo in Kansas City and it was a great glide. We had no trouble, the crowd was light. The terrain was sometimes slightly rough sometimes. After we left the soo we were told that Segways were not allowed. It seems that they had Segway rentals at one time. That must have been fun to watch. It seems that everyone is afraid of a Segway, but not golf carts, powered wheelchairs, etc.

Here are my questions:
• Has anyone filed a complaint against the Swope Park Zoo or Silver dollar City?
• Have any of you been at either one of these places?
I have not been to the KC zoo, but I have had dealings with the Springfield MO zoo. It started with the City Park board who asked me to do a ride through with the zoo director before they acknowledged the use of a Segway on city trails (This was before ADA 2010 but with MO EPAMD law in effect.) No problem.

I had more fun watching him in his golf cart watching me follow him. The areas of his concern: a place where the path sloped a bit sideways; a board walk bridge; a hill with switchbacks and a very steep hill which could be avoided by wheelchairs, but he asked if I would take it. I sailed up, swirled at the top, came half way down, backed up a ways and came on down--I know, showing off! <G> The crowning area of concern, however, was a spot with a steep drop off where they were worried that I might fall over the railing. Now on the Seg I am about 6' 5". I told him that and asked if they planned to ban all basketball players.....

If anyone has trouble with a zoo refer them to this news item.
http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/...ws_7m1zoo.html

It deals with liability waivers, not Segways, but shows what can be accomplished. ADA Lawsuit with San Diego Zoo Settled
Rick and Gladys Celebrate. San Diego Zoological Society Settles Case Alleging Discriminatory Entrance Policy for People with Mobility Disabilities at the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park
SAN DIEGO (NOVEMBER 29, 2006)
The article also refers to hills--if they claim that as a problem, refer to them to the YouTube video of a Segway going up the steepest street in
the world.

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Old 06-11-2012, 08:54 AM   #14
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I did not have my Segway with me at the gate. I asked if I could use it in the park, I was told flat out NO. Later in the morning I saw a man who looked "important" so I asked him why. He was off duty, his daughter was getting married in the park that day. While we were talking a security man came by, age probably 60, I figured he had some rank, the man passed the question to him. I got somewhat conflicting answers from them, but they told me to go to the security office near the front gate.

I did not go, I was with my wife, her sister and her husband. My wife does not like to ride her Segway, her sister has tried and is scared of them. Her and I had had several "discussions" about the safety of Segways, during the time we were in the place and I might point out that my wife and I were staying at their house. My broth-in-law does like to ride, but was intent on showing us Silver Dollar City. I did not want to walk back to security and then rejoin them. I could have stopped at security as we left, but my rear was dragging, all I wanted was a nap.

Swope Park greeted us with open arms when we arrived. It was only when I got back to my wife's sister's house that my brother-in-law was told by someone in the park office that Segways were not allowed in the park. What happened, it's more complicated than I first wrote, I wanted to write a more detailed account of the whole trip in another thread and just ask a couple of simple questions here. My brother-in-law and I went to Swope Park, our wives went shopping. We met up later, he stayed with the wives and I went to their house for a nap.

I could not find my wallet, I called Lost-and-Found at Swop Park, then when they finished shopping he went back to Swope Park to see if Lost-and-found had recovered the wallet. They had not, they were very friendly and helpful and during the conversation that he had with them they told him that Segways were not allowed.

I realize these two experiences do not further the goal of being able to use Segways everyplace. It seems like filing a complaint needs to be a planned thing where you are prepared to get names, dates and statements. This was a family outing with people who were not sympathetic to the Segway Cause. Or patient with me if I wanted to create a fuss, they would have told me to go by myself.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:52 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=Rolacoy;221425]

I realize these two experiences do not further the goal of being able to use Segways everyplace. It seems like filing a complaint needs to be a planned thing where you are prepared to get names, dates and statements.[\ QUOTE]

This is one of the things that--as of now--one does need to be prepared for. I carry in a plastic holder along with my disability card, 3 or 4 two page printouts of relevant segway law, both title II and III. I make sure that I have a pen and a place to make a note of relevant names and dates. TIP: Take a look at the complaint form provided and know what kind of information you will need.

I now have the DOJ help line number programmed into my cell phone and would ask the question and then ask them to explain it again to the person I am dealing with. I am also prepared to call 911 to request the assistance of a police officer with ADA knowledge. And now <G> that I have a lawyer (almost) in the family, I can always mention that these ADA issues can result in lawsuits.

Having said all that does not mean that I am a raving revolutionist looking for any opportunity to make a fuss. I simply have encountered enough of this kind of ignorance in the last three years to know what I will probably need to deal with it...if and when it happens.

Simply letting someone know that I know the law and that I know I have these options can sometimes make the difference.

A couple warnings though. I would not offer to call the DOJ unless I already know the answer. It is possible to get someone there who doesn't have a clue--they are human too. I usually say at the beginning of the call that I want to talk to someone knowledgeable about segway issues. If I think a certain question might arise, I may have made such a call ahead of time so I already know what the answer should/could be. It is also possible to ask to talk to a supervisor--although I got a royal brush-off once from a supervisor--and no answer at all that time. I think they simply didn't know the answer...

Calling 911 is, in my opinion, a last resort, because in most cases this would simply not be an emergency. There are times however, when this would be the only way to get the support you need to deal with a situation.

Above all though, always keep a good store of courtesy, patience and smiles to help defuse the situation. Then file a complaint immediately if this doesn't work. Failure to do so is a dis-service to everyone involved, including the party you are dealing with... the next person may be looking for an excuse for a lawsuit!
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:29 AM   #16
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In most cases I doubt that I would consider filing a complaint. The reasons would be if in these cases I was a long way from home. If I had to return to the location for some reason to follow up on the complaint it would not be worth the time and money. Both of these places are places in which I will never return.

If the place I really wanted to visit on a repeat basis on my Segway was local I probably would press the issue. I did press and was allowed to use my Segway at Canton, Texas for the swap meet and another time at the Tyler, Texas zoo. If they would have flat refused I don't know if I would have filed a complaint, because I have no interest in returning to either place. The manager of the zoo did tell me as I was leaving to call before I returned. He was indicating that I might not be allowed to return with my Segway. I have not called, because I am not interested in returning. I guess in most cases once I see a place I have little interest in returning.

If someone else wanted to ride a segway there for disability reasons I would join them in the issue. My wife and I both have handicap stickers and both have have Segways. She does not like riding her Segway and would never press the issue if someone told her no.

Also in most cases I can manage with a cane. Fortunately I do not have a severe enough disability at this stage in my life to have to have some type of mechanized devise to get around. For instance I go to Lowes quite a bit, I manage very well by pushing a shopping cart. It would be more trouble to load and unload the Segway than it would be worth.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:57 AM   #17
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Default Substantial Limitation

In order to be regarded as having a disability and being protected under the ADA one must have a substantial limitation in their ability to walk.

Last week at the National ADA Symposium attended by state, local, and federal government officials, ADA coordinators and disability advocates, I presented the session to explain and assist in implementing policies which would comply with the new United States Department of Justice regulations pertaining to other power driven mobility devices. This included the presentation of policies in existence today which did and did not comply with the new regulations and an explanation of why.


Substantial limitation is quite clear for many of us, less so for others.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:18 AM   #18
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I am 72 and have had two back surgeries fusing about 10 of my back bones. Walking any distance is the problem that I have and some back pain. If I ride my Segway it makes me stand up straight. I can not do that for any distance. I can use a cane or push a shopping cart. If I try to walk, say 100 feet, at the end I am bent over to nearly 45 degrees. However, the disability cards are prescribed by a doctor, I may not meet your "substantial Limitation". You can not just go into a store and buy one.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:38 AM   #19
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Default Substantial Limitation-Low Threshold

The term "substantial limitation" is intended to be a lower threshold.

In actuality obtaining a disability parking permit is quite easy and one of the most abused and fraudulently utilized tools benefiting people with disabilities.

I did not intend to nor will I enter into a debate about whether you have a "substantial limitation" or not. I do read every single post on this forum that appears in Special Needs, Mobility and Disabled Use.

What I meant when I said "substantial limitation is quite clear for many of us, less so for others." Is that for many the option of arriving at the gate without a Segway or a wheelchair or a scooter is not viable. We simply don't have that choice.

I've read every single post which you have submitted over the last couple of years.

On the one hand you say "if I try to walk, say 100 feet, at the end I am bent over to nearly 45°" and on the other you say "I do not have a severe enough disability at this stage my life to have to have some type of mechanized device to get me around"

That doesn't mean you do not have a "substantial limitation" it just subjects you to greater suspicion.

One of the greatest challenges we've had since embarking upon this endeavor eight years ago was the concern about those using Segways fraudulently representing themselves as disabled.

If you have a substantial limitation then you must file a complaint otherwise you're squandering the work that dozens of others have done over the last eight years.

Change does not come easily, but one person can make a difference in the world. Every act that we perform helps or hinders the progress of the world. They alone may not be the final determining factor but they certainly add weight to one side… Or the other.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:41 AM   #20
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Default ADA complaint

I filed an email complaint with the ADA. After submitting the complaint I received a automated reply that they received the complaint. That was over a month ago. I have not heard anything else from them. Do I need to contact them about this issue or does it just take a while to get my complaint processed.
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