rentals and "andrew the segway monster" video - Page 3

pt · 05-30-2003, 04:44 PM

andrew-

it was jack's choice to not show you a safety video or instruct you properly. he didn't like the outcome and asked you take a video down? that doesn't sound right to me.

i can tell you how jack would know if the ht would shut down...being a proper trainer. he's not, or at least not in this case.

you didn't do anything wrong in fact, you did what the instructor told you to.

jack didn't do the right thing here (maybe he did, but it doesn't seem so)...and i really want to make sure he doesn't get them banned in canada or encourage bans in the usa.

this is a big issue for everyone.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

ftropea · 05-30-2003, 04:47 PM

Actually CLM, I disagree with that..

At training, the only extreme a good trainer wants you to experience is "speed limiter". You should never hang over the handle bars..

One thing I remember a Segway trainer telling our class was that if you feel the speed limiter engaging, you shouldn't continue to lean forward.

Also, about "blame" : There is "fault" on many levels here...

- poor training.

- intent to push limits.

- renter's mentality (it's not their Seg - they don't have $5K vested - they may, or may not care, about the interests of Seg owners. For what it's worth, Andrew says he cares.. ) - they have to squeeze in a lifetime's worth of experience in the 20 minute window.. maximize it.. supersize it..

You say: "The idea is to do it now in a low risk environment rather than have it happen on the road later."

So let me understand.. Do you think we should all go out into a controlled environment, have someone spot us and "try" to face plant on a Seg? Would you please elaborate?

When you push the limits on things - what happens if you're successful? You realize those limits. I'm not sure this is the best way to experience a Seg.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

pt · 05-30-2003, 04:55 PM

clm-

this isn't what i would call "training" it's in a parking lot, the people never got to see a safety video. low risk enviroment? that parking lot most likely wasn't even jack's property.

yikes.

here's what i call it-

the quickest way for the rental place to get their money from people.

you are right, andrew was not a victim (he's lucky) he could have got hurt. jack can get a national ban on the ht before it's even sold because of these rental practices.

that's the big deal. yah, hts will fall over. that's not the issue here any longer.

cheers,
pt

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by clm

Folks, just a word of moderation before we get the cremation fires burning too bright.

What happened with Andrew happened in training - off the road and under controled conditions. We might not like it, but many, many people consider it quite proper behavior to explore limits of an activity in training, and consider it ok to crash in training.

The idea is to do it now in a low risk environment rather than have it happen on the road later.

Andrew said "I am use to falling down" and accepted the risks. He is not a victim here. (Other than this quote I'll let Andrew as a member speak for himself. Welcome to the board, Andrew)

I do realize our concern here is not to scare the fearful banner type petty officials. But not all Americans are freedom loving and thus we will have to deal with them. This concern I share, but we can't pretend that Segways do not fall over and get away with it forever. They do, and so what?

Chris

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

vpv · 05-30-2003, 10:31 PM

Renting the Segways has nothing to do with bannings!! What happened to Andrew could have happened to PT or any other owners who tries to "find the limit." Little or no trainings on Segways has nothing to do with Segways being banned either. Banning for banning's sake is the greater issue than renting Segways and I suggest that we concentrate our efforts on these.

I asked a certified Segway trainer during my training whether mandatory training will be required in the future if these become commonplace. He indicated that it will not be.

So non-training or Renting is a NON-issue here..

pt · 05-30-2003, 10:40 PM

vpv-

but rentals -do- have something to do with bannings. in fact, in my city a rental company caused a ban in a park.

you are correct, what andrew did could have happened to anyone. but, andrew never got to see the safety video, a properly trained person would (rental or owner). little or no training -does- have something to do with bannings, the more people with little or no training will have a higher rate of incidents, want an example, watch the video called "andrew the segway monster". the trainer did a poor job, didn't show the video. if you were a town official would you be okay with that?

banning for banning's sake is a big issue, it's a little easier to defend when people are getting proper training and there is no accidents, it gets harder when people who are training people properly or working with the city are causing incidents and bannings in parks.

at some point training might not be mandatory, but until that happens it's a rumor. we need to deal with the current issues.

it is an issue, there's a big big picture here that includes renting -and- bannings and everything else. i've been working with many people and my city...the rental issues are the quickest way to a ban, you don't need to agree with me, the facts can and will speak for themselves.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

mzokc · 05-30-2003, 10:59 PM

Andrew, Thanks for joining and sharing. It's good to know the limits of the HT, and your video shows it clearly.

It's critical that anyone crossing the road double checks for cars. Your sudden forward-backward could occur if a car appears from no where.

May all your future glides be safe ones!

Mark

toybuilder · 05-31-2003, 10:57 PM

Andrew -- I'd love to find out what you had intended to do in that stop. Were you trying to keep your body in one place? Or trying to stop in the shortest distance possible? As you were at the peak of your stopping and were leaning back quite a ways, were you then trying to shift your body forward to be upright again? It's had to tell just looking at the frame-by-frame, and what better than to ask the man?

Thanks!

http://www.pasadenasegway.com/
A bicycle in 1897 cost $25 ($2,200 today adjusted for inflation).
A Ford Model-T cost $850 in 1908 ($75,000 today adjusted for inflation).

vpv · 06-01-2003, 02:00 AM

PT.. it is utterly absurd to blame the ban on Segway users Period!(whether bought or rented or provided from/by LLC or some other biz). You know as well as every other Segway users here know that all bans were initiated by misinformed complainers or anti-seggers and were enacted by misinformed lawmakers who based their decisions on misunderstanding, fear and mistrust.. All these discussions in this board revolved around reversing all these unfair activities of bannings (email, showup on city councils meetings, etc). It seems like your opinion about renting Segways just shows the opposite of what everyone here wants to accomplish in allowing Segways where pedestrians are allowed. It's just mind boggling to see a double standard here in this forum..

pt · 06-01-2003, 02:17 AM

vpv-

you're 100% wrong, this ban was because the park make a -smart- decision that even i agree with, i think it's safe to say i'm informed about the segway.

bans are not going to be reversed, that seldomly if ever happens. all we can do is hope rentals do not cause -more- bans. read my posts, the park department added more restrictions (sidewalks near the park).

you need to look at the facts. as per the park department, this rental company -caused- a ban. whether it's a right or wrong in your eyes, it is what happened.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

PoloAk · 06-01-2003, 02:29 AM

Children, quite bickering. SF didn't ban Segways for the same reason that the park in WA banned them. It's incredibly subjective why anything is banned.

Kelsey

05-30-2003, 04:44 PM	#21
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	andrew- it was jack's choice to not show you a safety video or instruct you properly. he didn't like the outcome and asked you take a video down? that doesn't sound right to me. i can tell you how jack would know if the ht would shut down...being a proper trainer. he's not, or at least not in this case. you didn't do anything wrong in fact, you did what the instructor told you to. jack didn't do the right thing here (maybe he did, but it doesn't seem so)...and i really want to make sure he doesn't get them banned in canada or encourage bans in the usa. this is a big issue for everyone. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

05-30-2003, 04:47 PM	#22
ftropea Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA. Posts: 1,778	Actually CLM, I disagree with that.. At training, the only extreme a good trainer wants you to experience is "speed limiter". You should never hang over the handle bars.. One thing I remember a Segway trainer telling our class was that if you feel the speed limiter engaging, you shouldn't continue to lean forward. Also, about "blame" : There is "fault" on many levels here... - poor training. - intent to push limits. - renter's mentality (it's not their Seg - they don't have $5K vested - they may, or may not care, about the interests of Seg owners. For what it's worth, Andrew says he cares.. ) - they have to squeeze in a lifetime's worth of experience in the 20 minute window.. maximize it.. supersize it.. You say: "The idea is to do it now in a low risk environment rather than have it happen on the road later." So let me understand.. Do you think we should all go out into a controlled environment, have someone spot us and "try" to face plant on a Seg? Would you please elaborate? When you push the limits on things - what happens if you're successful? You realize those limits. I'm not sure this is the best way to experience a Seg. Regards, Frank A. Tropea Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

05-30-2003, 10:31 PM	#24
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	Renting the Segways has nothing to do with bannings!! What happened to Andrew could have happened to PT or any other owners who tries to "find the limit." Little or no trainings on Segways has nothing to do with Segways being banned either. Banning for banning's sake is the greater issue than renting Segways and I suggest that we concentrate our efforts on these. I asked a certified Segway trainer during my training whether mandatory training will be required in the future if these become commonplace. He indicated that it will not be. So non-training or Renting is a NON-issue here..

05-30-2003, 10:40 PM	#25
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	vpv- but rentals -do- have something to do with bannings. in fact, in my city a rental company caused a ban in a park. you are correct, what andrew did could have happened to anyone. but, andrew never got to see the safety video, a properly trained person would (rental or owner). little or no training -does- have something to do with bannings, the more people with little or no training will have a higher rate of incidents, want an example, watch the video called "andrew the segway monster". the trainer did a poor job, didn't show the video. if you were a town official would you be okay with that? banning for banning's sake is a big issue, it's a little easier to defend when people are getting proper training and there is no accidents, it gets harder when people who are training people properly or working with the city are causing incidents and bannings in parks. at some point training might not be mandatory, but until that happens it's a rumor. we need to deal with the current issues. it is an issue, there's a big big picture here that includes renting -and- bannings and everything else. i've been working with many people and my city...the rental issues are the quickest way to a ban, you don't need to agree with me, the facts can and will speak for themselves. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

05-30-2003, 10:59 PM	#26
mzokc Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 1,198	Andrew, Thanks for joining and sharing. It's good to know the limits of the HT, and your video shows it clearly. It's critical that anyone crossing the road double checks for cars. Your sudden forward-backward could occur if a car appears from no where. May all your future glides be safe ones! Mark

05-31-2003, 10:57 PM	#27
toybuilder Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pasadena, CA, . Posts: 935	Andrew -- I'd love to find out what you had intended to do in that stop. Were you trying to keep your body in one place? Or trying to stop in the shortest distance possible? As you were at the peak of your stopping and were leaning back quite a ways, were you then trying to shift your body forward to be upright again? It's had to tell just looking at the frame-by-frame, and what better than to ask the man? Thanks! http://www.pasadenasegway.com/ A bicycle in 1897 cost $25 ($2,200 today adjusted for inflation). A Ford Model-T cost $850 in 1908 ($75,000 today adjusted for inflation).

06-01-2003, 02:00 AM	#28
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	PT.. it is utterly absurd to blame the ban on Segway users Period!(whether bought or rented or provided from/by LLC or some other biz). You know as well as every other Segway users here know that all bans were initiated by misinformed complainers or anti-seggers and were enacted by misinformed lawmakers who based their decisions on misunderstanding, fear and mistrust.. All these discussions in this board revolved around reversing all these unfair activities of bannings (email, showup on city councils meetings, etc). It seems like your opinion about renting Segways just shows the opposite of what everyone here wants to accomplish in allowing Segways where pedestrians are allowed. It's just mind boggling to see a double standard here in this forum..

06-01-2003, 02:17 AM	#29
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	vpv- you're 100% wrong, this ban was because the park make a -smart- decision that even i agree with, i think it's safe to say i'm informed about the segway. bans are not going to be reversed, that seldomly if ever happens. all we can do is hope rentals do not cause -more- bans. read my posts, the park department added more restrictions (sidewalks near the park). you need to look at the facts. as per the park department, this rental company -caused- a ban. whether it's a right or wrong in your eyes, it is what happened. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 02:29 AM	#30
PoloAk Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Anchorage, AK, . Posts: 566	Children, quite bickering. SF didn't ban Segways for the same reason that the park in WA banned them. It's incredibly subjective why anything is banned. Kelsey

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