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Old 05-28-2003, 12:48 AM   #21
pt
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another station picked up the "no segways allowed" story because of the rentals.

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stori....5f6054ad.html

so that's the 2 big newspapers and the 2 big local networks here. the last time all these media outlets did a story on the ht was when it was about a guy who gave up a car (me) now it's a story about banning them around the recreational park.

..the people who are renting these according to the article says it's doing everything it can to work with city officials.

wouldn't this be what you'd find out before you bought 10 hts and started renting them?

the greenlake park has a big circle around a lake...so, ht owners would ride around in circles while 99% of the other folks use the park for cycling, jogging, etc...? i jog and cycle there, i'm not sure why anyone would want to go around in circles on a ht. i'm pretty sure the folks renting are going to get hassled.

i'm recording the stories that should be on in an hour or so.

cheers,
pt



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Old 05-28-2003, 01:24 AM   #22
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pt -

I share your concerns. Any new technology has a certain time to be accepted...or discredited. We live in an age when "spin" is everything.

As it happens, I live a few blocks from the park pt talks about, and am probably the only daily Segway user in the local area. I've talked to dozens of people in the neighborhood, and feel like I've made a personal investment in this new technology.

The Segway rental business is a quick-buck operation, IMO. It isn't about exploring transportation alternatives (as with the Keolis group in France). It seems to be about using the "wow" factor to make a short-term profit.

I would urge the members of this mailing list to remember that we have a unique opportunity to fix the image of an important and innovative transportation technology in the public mind.

Let's not throw it away.

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Old 05-28-2003, 01:42 AM   #23
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sfh1790-

i'm waiting to see the news coverage tonight, i might contact you and the other seattle / wa owners to see what we can do if action is needed. i also plan to visit these folks this weekend and say hi, i want to make sure i have all the facts.

cheers,
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:52 AM   #24
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I have to admit I had thoughts about a rental business before training last December. Those thoughts quickly disappeared after learning how to ride. I can't imagine letting people loose in public after only 30 minutes of orientation. In an enclosed area it might not be a bad idea, and I've heard there's a company doing this. Maybe rental companies could require 2 hours of 'supervised' rentals before allowing renters to go off on their own?

PS. I feel sorry for you PT. No problems here back East in NH.
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Old 05-28-2003, 02:05 AM   #25
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jwood-

i think most people who use a ht for any amount of time agree with what you posted (i do). i'n not sure why folks think renting hts is a good idea (but i plan to chat with some soon). i suppose the market will quickly decide what makes sense, so far this place at greenlake can't have their renters go to the place they planned to.

i'm not not worried about it- this is likely to end quickly with some strict rules about parks (which make sense) but i think the last 6 months of amazing gliding to and from work is about to change a bit and us segway ht commuters in seattle are about to have some work to do to rebuild some perceptions.

cheers,
pt



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Old 05-28-2003, 02:08 AM   #26
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Most Seg owners agree there are at least 3 or 4 different stages a new rider goes through...

1 - Initial unsteadiness - first learning how to orient yourself to the machine.

2 - Cautious and slightly confident - rider can control forward/back movement and turn.

3 - Overconfidence - rider zips around a lot quicker but is prone to put him/herself into a unstable position by turning incorrectly or encountering an obstacle/unexpected condition.

4 - Cautious yet confident - rider has a good understanding of Seg's capabilities and has mastered the black (beginners) key.


So I guess my question is, how long does it take the average rider to get to stage 4? I've given over 1,000 demos and most people I've taught to ride walk away with some proficiency at stage 2. I estimate based on my experience that it would take me about an hour to one hour and a half to get someone proficient - to stage 4 - where I would trust them around other people on their own (using black key).

I also think, from what I've heard about these 1/2 hr rental trainings, that people are walking away before they experience stage 3 - overconfidence. It may be that due to the nature of the rental time frame, Seg renting customers may not experience obstacles/unexpected conditions until they start Segging in the "real world" - and it also sounds like this is happening around pedestrians (woman/children/elderly) which is the last place you want to "practice" on your Seg.. especially in the beginning.

What do you think?

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Old 05-28-2003, 02:11 AM   #27
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i would never let anyone use my ht alone no matter how much i trained them to glide around the areas that the rental place in greenlake is letting folks. i might let someone glide around in a controlled closed off area after 2 hours of training, but i'd need to be there at all times and i'd also need to know the person fairly well.

cheers,
pt




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Old 05-28-2003, 02:36 AM   #28
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PT:

Now is the best time to do that survey/petition that we talked about a while ago before it's too late. Now that this issue of banning has come up in your own backyard.

Don't be fearful. You have everyone here backing you up.

Just give the freedom to anyone who is willing to use the Segway via purchase or rental. This is America you know, land of the free.
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Old 05-28-2003, 02:38 AM   #29
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I let close friends glide up and down an empty block on black key after they've been under my direct supervision for 15-20 minutes, but only if I'm comfortable that I've put the fear of Seg in them about overconfidence.

It sounds like these guys hosed themselves when it comes to finding a place where they could rent Segs. They'll probably lose some hefty money relocating because they didn't get clearance before they started. They sound fly-by-night, or at least naiive.

On the flip side of the issue, local businesses whose livelihood depends on Segways being allowed in areas can do all Segwayers some good, as they have the ear of politicians. I feel like small-business owners have more of a say with the current administration than clean-air commuters.





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Old 05-28-2003, 02:42 AM   #30
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My two cents. This is all too bad. It bums me out that the renters are there to make a quick buck. That said... it also bums me out that there is a hard and fast rule/law that only people using the park for jogging/cycling are entitled to do so. Why shouldn't someone who wanted to glide around it be able to? Something that, yes, I love to do for pure fun. Not all of us bought our Segways to commute to and from work. Some of us did buy it for (shocker) pure pleasure. That it has been more than I hoped, that it has replaced my car on short trips, is a great bonus. That I worry about my right to use it being taken away from me is something I didn't consider before purchasing.

As PT did on his original post, I'm typing this without really thinking out all the issues. It does seem to me that the renters in the park just sped up a process that will inevitably happen as more Segways are purchased. People WILL go out searching for interesting places to ride just for the fun of it. The fact that some use it mainly to commute does not make their right to glide any more important than anyone else's, again in my opinion. This may be a hard fact to digest. It seems that a few want to say, "hey, I'm using this for a good reason, and you're just getting your jollies. You need to give up your right, so I can have mine." Is this where we're headed? I hope not. I hope that there's room out there for all of us. Okay, forgive the stream-of-consciousness. I'm tired and cranky.
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