SUGGESTED CHANGES TO i2 SEGWAY - Page 5

cruiter · 03-05-2007, 10:28 AM

Pretty Kool
With the bars off as pictured, couldn't you back it up the ramps in riderless balance mode then shut it down with info key when at top of ramp? That's sort of how I do mine when loading it into the RX300. The top of the LSF just touches the frame of the lift gate so I'm careful and just lay it down at that point to avoid scratching the car. But if you put yours in backwards (I've done it), all you'd have to do is pull it back up the trunk ramp then power it up to get it down outside ramps. Does that make any sense?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAY-NER

The first test was made today and it was a success. I easily removed the i2 singlehandedly from the interior of my Honda CRX-2. It's still very tricky to get it into the trunk, but if SEGWAY INC. can reverse the motors for loading purposes, all problems would be solved. RAY-NER

hellphish · 03-05-2007, 03:08 PM

Reversing the motor direction would be catastrophic, I'll try to show you why.

Imagine you are standing infront of your i2. The i2 is level.

You gently tilt the handlebars toward you, and the i2's wheels go backwards.

You haven't moved yet, but the segway is starting to go backwards, away from you. Since you haven't moved and are still holding the handlebars, the tilting angle will increase.

The tilting angle increases, and the wheels spin backwards even faster. The segway is getting away from you. Holding on to the handlebar will only make it worse.

To stop the wheels from spinning, you need to get the segway level again somehow. You would have to chase the segway down. Obviously this is less than ideal.

cruiter · 03-05-2007, 03:56 PM

Doesn't work that way for me or I'm having a tough time trying to understand just what you're trying to explan. Any chance you could shoot another photo and post it of what you are describing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellphish

Reversing the motor direction would be catastrophic, I'll try to show you why.

Imagine you are standing infront of your i2. The i2 is level.

You gently tilt the handlebars toward you, and the i2's wheels go backwards.

You haven't moved yet, but the segway is starting to go backwards, away from you. Since you haven't moved and are still holding the handlebars, the tilting angle will increase.

The tilting angle increases, and the wheels spin backwards even faster. The segway is getting away from you. Holding on to the handlebar will only make it worse.

To stop the wheels from spinning, you need to get the segway level again somehow. You would have to chase the segway down. Obviously this is less than ideal.

RAY-NER · 03-05-2007, 06:08 PM

The genious that can possibly analyze this situation at SEGWAY, INC. will conclude that for the purpose of moving an i2 up a 45 degree loading ramp, only a constant low speed of two or three inches per second is the only rate that the wheels need to turn. In that scenario, the angle of the stick would not alter the speed whatsoever. In addition, the left/right movement of the stick as the i2 creeps up the ramp is cancelled so that no possible movement of the stick could take place that would place the tires outside of the width of the ramp. While holding the infokey in hand during the loading process, the i2 is powered off as it reaches 3/4 of the way down the interior ramp. The rest is a short distance to its final resting at the bottom of the ramp.
To unload, simply pull back on the stick causing the i2 to roll up the ramp and walk slowly backwards as you control the downward movement on the outside ramp. Powering on then cancels the reverse motor condition and you are ready to step on the i2 in balance mode.
RAY-NER

KSagal · 03-05-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellphish

Reversing the motor direction would be catastrophic, I'll try to show you why.

Imagine you are standing infront of your i2. The i2 is level.

You gently tilt the handlebars toward you, and the i2's wheels go backwards.

You haven't moved yet, but the segway is starting to go backwards, away from you. Since you haven't moved and are still holding the handlebars, the tilting angle will increase.

The tilting angle increases, and the wheels spin backwards even faster. The segway is getting away from you. Holding on to the handlebar will only make it worse.

To stop the wheels from spinning, you need to get the segway level again somehow. You would have to chase the segway down. Obviously this is less than ideal.

You just invented segway brakes! As it continues to run away, you fall flat on your face, and your lower lip collects gravel, and as it pushes more and more earth, the braking affect is in full swing...

(this is just a joke. I do not endorse any person using a reverse motor controlled segway as a tow machine to allow body surfing on gravel... That should only be done in loose sand or on wet grass.... No, wait,,, err... Nevermind. Do not try this at home... or anywhere else...)

hellphish · 03-06-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruiter

Doesn't work that way for me or I'm having a tough time trying to understand just what you're trying to explan. Any chance you could shoot another photo and post it of what you are describing?

Originally Posted by hellphish
"Reversing the motor direction would be catastrophic, I'll try to show you why."

It was a hypothetical scenario.

ryan_walters · 03-06-2007, 01:58 AM

I also think having motor drive direction reversed would be catastrophic.

Think about how it works now.

While in RBM, you lean it forward a little. The motors drive forward, resulting in a DEcrease in platform angle. This brings the motors to a stop again. Leading the handlebars around, forward / backward, and left / right causes it to follow you around like an obedient puppy. The motors movement caused by the angle in the platform cancels out the angle. Very controllable.

Now if a slight angle caused the wheels to go backwards to how they normally go, that movement would cause an even GREATER angle, which would put even MORE power to the wheels, which would increase the speed at which the angle is increasing, even more power, speed, etc, etc.. (sort of like audio feedback with mic and speaker)

I've loaded my i2 into and out of my vehicle quite a number of times. I don't have to take the LSF off at all as long as I 'back' the seg up. Front of the seg facing me as I lean it backwards to get it to 'backup' the ramps. Also, you NEED steering control available when doing this to make sure it gets in right. I've seen an I2 loaded into a suv that was quite high off the ground. The ramps were at well over 45 deg, probably more like 60 deg. It climbed them just fine.

RAY-NER · 03-06-2007, 02:18 AM

I thought my last post detailed three major points. (A) In the motor reverse mode, the max. speed is two to three inches per second regardless of the angle of the stick. (B) The stick's position left or right does not alter the direction. (C) Upon shutoff using the infokey, (A) and (B) above are cancelled, reverting back to normal startup next time. I foresee no catastrophe here! RAY-NER

hellphish · 03-06-2007, 02:41 AM

I think you are definintely on to something there with the limited speed.

ryan_walters · 03-06-2007, 02:47 AM

If it has to move at a certain speed, regarless of incline of slope, then it has to blindly put out potentially an unlimited amount of power (within operating limits of motors). I could see this causing accidents where too puch power it delivered to the wheels to maintain 3 inches per second, even though it's hit something / someone. I hear cries of "it ran me over at 3 inches per second, and there was nothing I could do about it". Normal RBM, that just can't happen.

I still disagree about steering. You need to be able to make small corrections as you're going up the ramp.

03-05-2007, 03:08 PM	#42
hellphish Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Silentville Posts: 1,122	Reversing the motor direction would be catastrophic, I'll try to show you why. Imagine you are standing infront of your i2. The i2 is level. You gently tilt the handlebars toward you, and the i2's wheels go backwards. You haven't moved yet, but the segway is starting to go backwards, away from you. Since you haven't moved and are still holding the handlebars, the tilting angle will increase. The tilting angle increases, and the wheels spin backwards even faster. The segway is getting away from you. Holding on to the handlebar will only make it worse. To stop the wheels from spinning, you need to get the segway level again somehow. You would have to chase the segway down. Obviously this is less than ideal.

03-06-2007, 01:58 AM	#47
ryan_walters Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 347	I also think having motor drive direction reversed would be catastrophic. Think about how it works now. While in RBM, you lean it forward a little. The motors drive forward, resulting in a DEcrease in platform angle. This brings the motors to a stop again. Leading the handlebars around, forward / backward, and left / right causes it to follow you around like an obedient puppy. The motors movement caused by the angle in the platform cancels out the angle. Very controllable. Now if a slight angle caused the wheels to go backwards to how they normally go, that movement would cause an even GREATER angle, which would put even MORE power to the wheels, which would increase the speed at which the angle is increasing, even more power, speed, etc, etc.. (sort of like audio feedback with mic and speaker) I've loaded my i2 into and out of my vehicle quite a number of times. I don't have to take the LSF off at all as long as I 'back' the seg up. Front of the seg facing me as I lean it backwards to get it to 'backup' the ramps. Also, you NEED steering control available when doing this to make sure it gets in right. I've seen an I2 loaded into a suv that was quite high off the ground. The ramps were at well over 45 deg, probably more like 60 deg. It climbed them just fine.

03-06-2007, 02:18 AM	#48
RAY-NER Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TAMPA, FLORIDA Posts: 120	I thought my last post detailed three major points. (A) In the motor reverse mode, the max. speed is two to three inches per second regardless of the angle of the stick. (B) The stick's position left or right does not alter the direction. (C) Upon shutoff using the infokey, (A) and (B) above are cancelled, reverting back to normal startup next time. I foresee no catastrophe here! RAY-NER

03-06-2007, 02:41 AM	#49
hellphish Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Silentville Posts: 1,122	I think you are definintely on to something there with the limited speed.

03-06-2007, 02:47 AM	#50
ryan_walters Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 347	If it has to move at a certain speed, regarless of incline of slope, then it has to blindly put out potentially an unlimited amount of power (within operating limits of motors). I could see this causing accidents where too puch power it delivered to the wheels to maintain 3 inches per second, even though it's hit something / someone. I hear cries of "it ran me over at 3 inches per second, and there was nothing I could do about it". Normal RBM, that just can't happen. I still disagree about steering. You need to be able to make small corrections as you're going up the ramp.

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