Quote:
Originally Posted by SegNerd
Really? Value and the labor theory of value were fundamental aspects of Marxism.
But this has gotten too far off-topic for a Segway forum, so I think I'm just going to let other folks debate this one... |
I don't think either of us are trying to debate socialism, but since you've clarified your intent, I can clarify a bit as a result.
First, let me note that Marxism and Socialism are not one and the same. Socialism is a much broader category, generally defined by the concept of "social ownership".
But the Labor Theory of Value is hardly a defining characteristic of either socialism nor Marxism. It was first proposed by Adam Smith, in
The Wealth of Nations! Yes, it is an important concept, and yes, it was important to Karl Marx's philosophy...
But it also isn't what you described, though I can see now that it was your intent. Let me see if I can capture your intent: Marxism would require payment based on the amount of labor, rather than a price set by fiat or negotiation, and in a currency whose value itself is determined by labor.
The problem is, we don't have any such currency, certainly not USD. Barter would be your only option. This undermined your attempt at injecting the issue of profit -- which indeed, would be important to distinguishing between socialism and capitalism.
I don't think you can teach economic or political philosophy in a lesson like this; I think the lesson is more foundational. You can't really grasp the labor theory of value (let alone more nuanced notions of value) unless you appreciate the value of labor!
I think, though, he
did teach about the problem of dogmatism, just by the struggle to work out what was fair!
So what would be a "fair price" for Segways under such a system? Is there a difference in the value of skilled vs unskilled labor? Focused vs lackadaisical labor? Labor performed by the young and physically fit vs old and infirm? Does it matter if the labor is being performed by people living in an environment requiring 90% of their waking hours just to eke out survival against the environment?
But even in the simplest model -- how many man-hours go into producing a Segway? You have to include a pro-rated (how?) share of the man-hours producing the machinery, transport of materials, even mining. How do you set the value of that ore, in finite supply? By the labor price of substituting some renewable material?
I'm pretty certain that Segways would not exist under a Marxist world order, but whether they COULD exist if the pricing were based purely on hours of labor, monitized, is much less clear to me.
Anyway, thank you Rolacoy, for an interesting story, and SegNerd, for bringing up interesting points.