Please File Your ADA Violation Complaints
 

It's important that anyone who has their civil rights violated under Title III file an ADA Complaint. I am not naive or believe that these complaints are followed up on an individual basis, but the violations have to be a matter of record and numbers can't hurt.

http://www.ada.gov/t3compfm.htm

This will be of great importance as the DOJ reviews the issue.
Please pass this info along anyone you know that uses a Segway as a mobility aid.

Be Big,
AMAC

A couple weeks ago I filed a Missouri Human Rights complaint and an ADA complaint against the Missouri Department of Conservation. They had no policy in place last Feb when I first raised the question and have only now formed a committe to study the matter. I think it will meet in a day or two...

Their latest solution was a plan to to set up a permit system for using a Segway as an EPAMD and it sounded like they did not want to include nature trails or anything except areas already meeting ADA accessible standards. And there are all too few of those considering the size of this state...especially if you are not a hunter or fisherman.

I have no compaint with the local officials but their hands have been tied...

I tried to get it worked out without going formal but my 180 day window for filing was rapidly disappearing....

I thought these did get considered or maybe they are not all considered significant enough to deal with at least in a newsworthy fashion.... guess I am naive. The Missouri Human Rights complaint warned that it would be several months before you hear anything--and please don't call us in the meantime!

I'm going to enjoy this...
 

The national gallery of art is first on my list. You hear that ladies and gentlement, that's the sound of thousands of pens, pencils, computers, and all manner of writing accoutrements in working in unison. I love that sound, sounds like victory.:cool:
-segsurfer

My Bad !
 

Lily,

I should not have implied that the complaints go without consideration, poor choice of words on my part. The complaints get read but government moves at it's own pace...

It's still important that you filed your complaint. In the end numbers count.

Be Big,
AMAC

To ease the process of filling a complaint you can now do so on the new DRAFT website:

http://www.draft.org/DisabilityRights.aspx

Remember you do not have to be denied access at the door, denial over the phone, email etc. is the same as at the door.

Be Big,
AMAC

Hey Everyone
 

I'm David from the CO High Country. I'm disabled with a mobility disability.
I don't have my Seg yet but hope to get mine soon! And engage in your forums here about learning more and hope to help make the Segway considered a recognised mobility device for Seniors and the Disabled. It is working for Disabled Vets now and If we work at it..I think we can get them listed!

You'll see me chime in from time to time...glad to be a part of this...cant wait to Glide the Rockies!

Dave

You will love it if you get one
 

You will love it if you get one. I bought my i2 about 3 years ago and use it everyday now. I walk, but very badly due to a spinal cord injury. It totally altered my way of thinking when it comes to trips to the store, parking, etc, etc. Still there are some barriers, but if you are extra courteous people will let you use them just about anywhere. I figure they are kind of startling the first time people see them, but if you give a good impression they will like you and have no reason to complain. Greg

this is for vets olny right

No, it's for anyone who uses a Segway for a mobility aide. The ADA is part of federal civil rights law for all American citizens.

Jim

We were at Silver Dollar City in Branson, MO last Thursday morning. I asked if I could us my Segway and was told NO !! I was told that they are too dangerous. They gave nothing specific, except that there were too many people in the park. I used my cane to walk the park and it wore me out. I must admit that it would have been a challenge, not because of the crowd, but the terrain. All of the walkways are very smooth, but un-level and hilly.

I could have navigated it without much trouble, but carefully. Someone with more experience would have little trouble. Someone new to Segway would have a run-a-way. The crowd would have been little problem. We arrived about 8:30am, by 1:00pm the crowd had picked up quite a bit but still manageable. By then there were too many people in the park for me to enjoy the experience. I have no interest in being anyplace where it is "bumper to bumper" people, with or without the Segway.

We were welcomed at Swope Park Zoo in Kansas City and it was a great glide. We had no trouble, the crowd was light. The terrain was sometimes slightly rough sometimes. After we left the soo we were told that Segways were not allowed. It seems that they had Segway rentals at one time. That must have been fun to watch. It seems that everyone is afraid of a Segway, but not golf carts, powered wheelchairs, etc.

Here are my questions:

• Has anyone filed a complaint against the Swope Park Zoo or Silver dollar City?
• Have any of you been at either one of these places?

I will go into more detail in the topic, "Trip to Kansas City", in a couple of days. We had a great time with the Segways.

My mother's been there. See this thread:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/archive...p/t-24668.html

I hope she'll jump in with more current information.

File a complaint.

Gladly--and yes, file a complaint--on both of them! I have not been back to Silver Dollar City since then (much too expensive for my retirement budget) but maybe I need to! Anyone going to Branson? Let me know and we'll test it out together!

Let me tell you my story. I was there. I encountered only two problems-- first it was a "handicapped" restroom where there was room for the Seg--but not me. I was new enough to the whole thing that I didn't really realize that I should have complained to someone besides the attendant near by.

The second problem happened when --remember I was still pretty new to this-- I let one wheel run up over the 3-4" rocks that bordered a path and it flipped me. I got a scratch, the seg did not run into anyone else in the crowd. Someone called the medics, filled out reports, etc. so they should have a record of the incident.

This would have been three years ago--but I don't recall the exact date. The hills were not a problem at all. The crowd was not a problem--and has never been a problem anywhere I have used it (more on that in another post in a minute.)

If they are using this as an example of Segways being unsafe in a crowd, I will gladly testify to the DOJ that Silver Dollar City does not have a Segway crowd problem--they have a safety liability problem. Anyone could have stepped on one of those rocks in avoiding the crowd and broken an ankle. If I had known then what I know now, I would have pursued that point!

I had just heard a rumor that they were not letting Segs in--sorry to have it confirmed! If anyone needs my testimony to include with your complaint, you may contact me or copy this note.

Lily Kerns

RE: Kansas City Zoo
 

I have not been to the KC zoo, but I have had dealings with the Springfield MO zoo. It started with the City Park board who asked me to do a ride through with the zoo director before they acknowledged the use of a Segway on city trails (This was before ADA 2010 but with MO EPAMD law in effect.) No problem.

I had more fun watching him in his golf cart watching me follow him. The areas of his concern: a place where the path sloped a bit sideways; a board walk bridge; a hill with switchbacks and a very steep hill which could be avoided by wheelchairs, but he asked if I would take it. I sailed up, swirled at the top, came half way down, backed up a ways and came on down--I know, showing off! <G> The crowning area of concern, however, was a spot with a steep drop off where they were worried that I might fall over the railing. Now on the Seg I am about 6' 5". I told him that and asked if they planned to ban all basketball players.....

If anyone has trouble with a zoo refer them to this news item.
http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/...ws_7m1zoo.html

It deals with liability waivers, not Segways, but shows what can be accomplished. ADA Lawsuit with San Diego Zoo Settled
Rick and Gladys Celebrate. San Diego Zoological Society Settles Case Alleging Discriminatory Entrance Policy for People with Mobility Disabilities at the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park
SAN DIEGO (NOVEMBER 29, 2006)
The article also refers to hills--if they claim that as a problem, refer to them to the YouTube video of a Segway going up the steepest street in
the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYKUk0XVeTQ

I did not have my Segway with me at the gate. I asked if I could use it in the park, I was told flat out NO. Later in the morning I saw a man who looked "important" so I asked him why. He was off duty, his daughter was getting married in the park that day. While we were talking a security man came by, age probably 60, I figured he had some rank, the man passed the question to him. I got somewhat conflicting answers from them, but they told me to go to the security office near the front gate.

I did not go, I was with my wife, her sister and her husband. My wife does not like to ride her Segway, her sister has tried and is scared of them. Her and I had had several "discussions" about the safety of Segways, during the time we were in the place and I might point out that my wife and I were staying at their house. My broth-in-law does like to ride, but was intent on showing us Silver Dollar City. I did not want to walk back to security and then rejoin them. I could have stopped at security as we left, but my rear was dragging, all I wanted was a nap.

Swope Park greeted us with open arms when we arrived. It was only when I got back to my wife's sister's house that my brother-in-law was told by someone in the park office that Segways were not allowed in the park. What happened, it's more complicated than I first wrote, I wanted to write a more detailed account of the whole trip in another thread and just ask a couple of simple questions here. My brother-in-law and I went to Swope Park, our wives went shopping. We met up later, he stayed with the wives and I went to their house for a nap.

I could not find my wallet, I called Lost-and-Found at Swop Park, then when they finished shopping he went back to Swope Park to see if Lost-and-found had recovered the wallet. They had not, they were very friendly and helpful and during the conversation that he had with them they told him that Segways were not allowed.

I realize these two experiences do not further the goal of being able to use Segways everyplace. It seems like filing a complaint needs to be a planned thing where you are prepared to get names, dates and statements. This was a family outing with people who were not sympathetic to the Segway Cause. Or patient with me if I wanted to create a fuss, they would have told me to go by myself.

[QUOTE=Rolacoy;221425]

I realize these two experiences do not further the goal of being able to use Segways everyplace. It seems like filing a complaint needs to be a planned thing where you are prepared to get names, dates and statements.[\ QUOTE]

This is one of the things that--as of now--one does need to be prepared for. I carry in a plastic holder along with my disability card, 3 or 4 two page printouts of relevant segway law, both title II and III. I make sure that I have a pen and a place to make a note of relevant names and dates. TIP: Take a look at the complaint form provided and know what kind of information you will need.

I now have the DOJ help line number programmed into my cell phone and would ask the question and then ask them to explain it again to the person I am dealing with. I am also prepared to call 911 to request the assistance of a police officer with ADA knowledge. And now <G> that I have a lawyer (almost) in the family, I can always mention that these ADA issues can result in lawsuits.

Having said all that does not mean that I am a raving revolutionist looking for any opportunity to make a fuss. I simply have encountered enough of this kind of ignorance in the last three years to know what I will probably need to deal with it...if and when it happens.

Simply letting someone know that I know the law and that I know I have these options can sometimes make the difference.

A couple warnings though. I would not offer to call the DOJ unless I already know the answer. It is possible to get someone there who doesn't have a clue--they are human too. I usually say at the beginning of the call that I want to talk to someone knowledgeable about segway issues. If I think a certain question might arise, I may have made such a call ahead of time so I already know what the answer should/could be. It is also possible to ask to talk to a supervisor--although I got a royal brush-off once from a supervisor--and no answer at all that time. I think they simply didn't know the answer...

Calling 911 is, in my opinion, a last resort, because in most cases this would simply not be an emergency. There are times however, when this would be the only way to get the support you need to deal with a situation.

Above all though, always keep a good store of courtesy, patience and smiles to help defuse the situation. Then file a complaint immediately if this doesn't work. Failure to do so is a dis-service to everyone involved, including the party you are dealing with... the next person may be looking for an excuse for a lawsuit!

In most cases I doubt that I would consider filing a complaint. The reasons would be if in these cases I was a long way from home. If I had to return to the location for some reason to follow up on the complaint it would not be worth the time and money. Both of these places are places in which I will never return.

If the place I really wanted to visit on a repeat basis on my Segway was local I probably would press the issue. I did press and was allowed to use my Segway at Canton, Texas for the swap meet and another time at the Tyler, Texas zoo. If they would have flat refused I don't know if I would have filed a complaint, because I have no interest in returning to either place. The manager of the zoo did tell me as I was leaving to call before I returned. He was indicating that I might not be allowed to return with my Segway. I have not called, because I am not interested in returning. I guess in most cases once I see a place I have little interest in returning.

If someone else wanted to ride a segway there for disability reasons I would join them in the issue. My wife and I both have handicap stickers and both have have Segways. She does not like riding her Segway and would never press the issue if someone told her no.

Also in most cases I can manage with a cane. Fortunately I do not have a severe enough disability at this stage in my life to have to have some type of mechanized devise to get around. For instance I go to Lowes quite a bit, I manage very well by pushing a shopping cart. It would be more trouble to load and unload the Segway than it would be worth.

Substantial Limitation
 

In order to be regarded as having a disability and being protected under the ADA one must have a substantial limitation in their ability to walk.

Last week at the National ADA Symposium attended by state, local, and federal government officials, ADA coordinators and disability advocates, I presented the session to explain and assist in implementing policies which would comply with the new United States Department of Justice regulations pertaining to other power driven mobility devices. This included the presentation of policies in existence today which did and did not comply with the new regulations and an explanation of why.

Substantial limitation is quite clear for many of us, less so for others.

I am 72 and have had two back surgeries fusing about 10 of my back bones. Walking any distance is the problem that I have and some back pain. If I ride my Segway it makes me stand up straight. I can not do that for any distance. I can use a cane or push a shopping cart. If I try to walk, say 100 feet, at the end I am bent over to nearly 45 degrees. However, the disability cards are prescribed by a doctor, I may not meet your "substantial Limitation". You can not just go into a store and buy one.

Substantial Limitation-Low Threshold
 

The term "substantial limitation" is intended to be a lower threshold.

In actuality obtaining a disability parking permit is quite easy and one of the most abused and fraudulently utilized tools benefiting people with disabilities.

I did not intend to nor will I enter into a debate about whether you have a "substantial limitation" or not. I do read every single post on this forum that appears in Special Needs, Mobility and Disabled Use.

What I meant when I said "substantial limitation is quite clear for many of us, less so for others." Is that for many the option of arriving at the gate without a Segway or a wheelchair or a scooter is not viable. We simply don't have that choice.

I've read every single post which you have submitted over the last couple of years.

On the one hand you say "if I try to walk, say 100 feet, at the end I am bent over to nearly 45°" and on the other you say "I do not have a severe enough disability at this stage my life to have to have some type of mechanized device to get me around"

That doesn't mean you do not have a "substantial limitation" it just subjects you to greater suspicion.

One of the greatest challenges we've had since embarking upon this endeavor eight years ago was the concern about those using Segways fraudulently representing themselves as disabled.

If you have a substantial limitation then you must file a complaint otherwise you're squandering the work that dozens of others have done over the last eight years.

Change does not come easily, but one person can make a difference in the world. Every act that we perform helps or hinders the progress of the world. They alone may not be the final determining factor but they certainly add weight to one side… Or the other.

ADA complaint
 

I filed an email complaint with the ADA. After submitting the complaint I received a automated reply that they received the complaint. That was over a month ago. I have not heard anything else from them. Do I need to contact them about this issue or does it just take a while to get my complaint processed.

The wheels of justice grind very, very slowly.....
I suspect that the magnitude of your complaint may make a small difference. Did it tell you that if you have not heard in 6 weeks or so to check with them? Then you can expect another 3-6 months or even longer. At least this has been my experience.

The important thing is whether they grind finely.

Very interesting thread.
@QuadSquad

"In order to be regarded as having a disability and being protected under the ADA one must have a substantial limitation in their ability to walk."

I am mobility impaired to the degree that I have to avoid any activity that involves walking more than a short distance. I have never had anyone question my disability, and would be offended if anyone would. It is a matter between me and my doctor. I am well aware of the apparent abuse of disabled parking permits, but question how such misuse could be policed. Isn't there protections in the ADA against challenges regarding the severity of a person's handicap? The more basic question is, what is the larger problem, abuse of disability status or denial of the right of access for disabled folks.

Under ADA 2010 the only question anyone can ask about your disability is if you have one. They must take your permit card as sufficient proof. If you do not have one, then they must take your word for it unless there is visible evidence to the contrary. Not all disabilities are visible, but if you are turning cartwheels in the parking lot, they might have reason to question your status. That one of course has the potential for a problem...

As for which abuse of ADA is the bigger problem, that's a judgement call... They both create a problem for the disabled.

As for abuse of handicap spaces, that one is another sticky one. I've been told that the store has no power in the matter even if it is solely their parking lot...and I've never seen city police checking for that kind of violation.

why last post 2014
 

Why is the last post from 2014 ?
I just experience a very humiliating moment in San Diego CA,
when I tried gently to inform the young lady about ADA , this brushed me even more so,
I always ask, so I specd a restaurant where there is room to park without troubling anyone then ask if OK to leave it there during my meal,
Oh my gosh, I pretty much got kicked out of there eventhough there was virtully nobody in the place, so my guests (Non ADA ) and I left, this just happened 20160427 7.30pm in San Diego Gaslight District,
unbelievable , a young lady refusing to hear why she was exposing the owner of the establishment to potential legal problems,
try to be gentle, next time, I will call the police and be done with the nonsense of ignorants deciding to stay that way,

I have all my paperwork in my backpack and I also keep DOJ phone number in my cell phone.....
You may want to due the same.....I have a service dog and I keep all his info on him.....people just dont get it!

ADA & Segways in 2018
 

Many more facilities are updating their accessibility guidelines to include Segways. The ADA regulations covers all 50 states and includes "Wheelchairs, Mobility Aids, and Other Power-Driven Mobility Devices" It considers Segways as OPDMD – Other Power-Driven Mobility Devices just like motorized wheelchairs and mobility scooters.

However, you can ONLY ride if you have a state issued Handicapped Parking Permit (like the one that hangs from you car’s rear view mirror). NOTE: I have a Segway MiniPRO with handlebar that has a scaled down copy of my Handicapped Permit in a special holder I made attached to it. (I tried to post a photo but coudn't get it small enough. If you PM me, I'll send it to you).

For all of you who have encountered problems in the past I hope you've seen changes for the better. Here are several situations I encountered in the past year:

1) I checked the New York City Parks Dept. website and found the name of their Accessibility Coordinator. He confirmed all NYC Parks are fully ADA compliant including use of OPDMD's. The next week I went riding in Central Park and got waves and thumbs ups from the NYC Police and park dept. employees.

2) I read that OPDMD's are allowed on paved paths in many NY State Parks. I spoke to their State ADA Coordinator who confirmed use of OPDMD's but suggested I speak to the specific park manager about which paths would be best. I did that and have ridden many times in Roosevelt State Park with no problems.

3) We are members of the New York Botanical Garden which is a 250 acre facility with mostly paved sidewalks and roads. I called and spoke with their Security Director, sent him ADA information and got a letter back from their Accessibility Director advising me that OPDMD's were fine except inside the main greenhouse where it can be wet and the paths are narrow & crowded. They let me park inside the building at the security desk. Their latest brochure covers all disability issues including OPDMD's.

4) Went to southern Florida on vacation and rode everywhere with no problem. Even rode through a glass exhibit at the Boca Museum of Art. I thought the Security Guards eyes were going to pop out of their heads!

5) I made a full-scale presentation to my local Parks Advisory Committee about Segway use on mixed-use paved pedestrian and bicycle paths for general non-handicapped purposes. They decided to keep their policy to not allow motorized vehicles including motorized wheelchairs. By working through the county's office for disabilities services and providing a copy of the ADA requirement, I was able to get them to change their policy.

For us older folks, the key here is to get a Handicapped Parking Permit. It gives us leverage through the ADA. I do sometimes carry a copy with me if I'm going into unfamiliar territory. Be proactive and don't take no for an answer!

I always carry a copy of the letter from my doctor.

You don't have to be severely disabled to use an assistive device if it helps you, just like those who use cane can not be restricted if they have a valid need.

But by law, you DO NOT need any letter from anyone.....Just carry the law with you!.....Its NO ONES business if your hurt, sick or disabled!...

Segway miniPro/miniLITE/Ninebot S as an assistive mobility device what should I carry
 

What should I or others who I work with from our area Light EV group, carry when using a Segway, or a HoverKart, or escooter, as an assistive mobility device?

We had NO problem using a HoverKart, a kit that adds a 3rd wheel and a seat to a HoverBoard, in and around Raleigh and other cities in Central NC. BUT when a friend and I went to a Central NC museum, I had an obvious knee brace and after brief discussion with a manager, I was able to take my Ninebot S into the museum.

My friend who is walking unsteadily with a cane, was not able to take his miniLITE into the museum, so once inside we took turns. He actually needs the mobility device more than I did.

What should we carry with us to minimize complaints? A copy of a handicapped parking permit for a car? (We did have one of those for my friend.)

Mobility scooters are wonderful. But friends who have tried our Light EV club's HoverKarts, of if they can stand, a miniPro/miniLITE/Ninebot S with a handlebar replacing the knee controls, find the Segway/HoverKart much more flexible and a lot more fun!

Thank you for all these stories of what to do to complain about lack of ADA compliance. For Segways or HoverKarts as replacements for mobility scooters what do we need to carry as proof that this is the reason for accepting these as Light EV Assistive Devices?

ADA Complaint Concerns
 

Thank you so much for providing a starting point where mobility concerns can formally be addressed i.e. ADA.GOV here in the US.

I have met with resistance and invited the individual / security attendant to show me the posting of prohibited devices. That's where I proceeded with entry. Upon review of the ADA.GOV Website I feel better about entry into locations with out scrutiny.

Regards
Loomo Advocate.:D

"I've been enjoying using my Segway, model i2, for about 3 years now." Walking has been impacted by a spinal injury that has affected my walking, and it has changed everything. Everyday tasks such as shopping and parking are easier. Some barriers persist, but showing courtesy goes a long way. People may be initially intrigued, but a good impression matters greatly.- Greg Congratulations to Greg.

Your experience demonstrates the importance of knowing our rights under ADA.GOV. When faced with resistance, standing firm and respectfully referencing the law can make a difference. "Have you encountered similarly conditioned situations and found it helpful to educate others about accessibility rights?"