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Why don't REALLY send a Segway on the Moon?
Months ago I've made an image of a "Segway on the Moon" that is available on my website (with three other images of Segway) here www.gaetanomarano.it/segway/segway.html
In last months I've published some pages about Space like... The CREWLESS Space Shuttle http://www.gaetanomarano.it/spaceShu...ceshuttle.html And VME - Vision for Moonrovers' Exploration www.gaetanomarano.it/moonrovers/moonrovers.html Since to-day's rockets launch prices are affordable for little-mid companies, I propose a "Moonrovers' Prize Competition" www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html I think that Segway, with its GREAT experience of robotics, may be one of Moonrovers' Race Competitors or one of its Sponsors! Build a "moonrover" is NOT so complex as may appear, it only need to be made for lunar reduced gravity and lunar temperatures using military-grade parts (that costs more than commercial parts but NOT so much). Other Competitors or Sponsors may be the same of Segway (Apple, Microsoft, Amazon) or other companies like Ford, Coca Cola, Dell, etc. I think that a "privates' moon-race" may be VERY interesting and exciting! |
One thing that would have to be changed to make a moon-roving segway possible is the tires/wheels. The air-filled tires would literally explode in the vacuum of space.
Tweels may be perfect for this application! David Sterrett, N1DAS Nashua, NH Midnight Blue i170 |
Don't forget that those green circuit boards have a nasty tendancy to outgas to the point of nonexistance in the vacuum of space.
-- swiftly flying |
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The difference in pressure from the Earth (sea level) to the Moon is about 14.7 psi. So that much more force would be pushing out on the tires while on the moon - since it isn't countered by any atmospheric pressure. However, in the extreme cold of space the tires' air pressure would be significantly reduced. 18 psi in the tire on earth would be equal to 32.7 psi on the Moon - before taking into account the colder temperature. I wonder how those silicone tires and plastic wheels would hold up in the coldness of space... Yeah, I think something like tweels would be better. Rich H The Un-Official Segway Battery FAQ http://www.spinfoot.com/SegwayBatteryFAQ.html |
Let us also not neglect that the moon is made of cheese. You will probably want slightly salty tires with a tread textured like crackers. Be that as it may, there is evidence that the Segway company has already begun working toward the space-travel market. For example, the 25.0 luggage bag is truly ideal for low-gravity environments - where it incurs less wheel drag.
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also, the better design fo a MoonSegway, may be the four wheel Centaur I think that the most interesting part of Segway's technology (very good for moonrovers!) is its gyroscope based self-balancing, because it may give to moonrovers the ability to run in an unknown surface and RESUME from difficult situation thanks to its ability to move with four or only two wheels Segway may design a moonrover able to meet the unknown lunar surface! |
Although the Cheese factor is undeniable, I always thought of it as having a surface more like grated Parmasian. Instead of cracker textured tires, I would think cheese grater textured tires may do a better job.
I'm fairly sure that the seg will work fine. I would be more conserned with the extra bling that NASA would undoubtedly ask Jonathan and I to add to the MT (Moon Transporter) Can anyone tell me how blinking multicolored chinese LEDs that are designed for the automotive aftermarket work in the vaccuum of space? Karl Ian Sagal Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass. |
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weight is very important in space travels and the weight of four moon-Centaurs may be less than of the two "LunarSuv" planned for each mission |
A simple rover may have difficulties to resume a situation like in fig.1, and may REMAIN on the lunar crater border, while, a Centaur-based moonrover, can simply rise two of its wheels, fig.2, and turn back to continue moon exploration. [img.nr]http://www.gaetanomarano.it/roverexample.jpg[/img.nr] |
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Given the success of the two Mars rovers, I'd say this is a non-problem. JohnM Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours. RUSA #235 |
"...One can always imagine obstacles that any one particular rover design might not be able to handle..."
All mars rovers' movements must be "planned" for days due to earth-mars radio delay. Moonrovers, thanks to "one-second" only radio-delay, can be driven in real-time. This is a GIANT advantage (for space/time moon exploration) of moonrovers vs. mars rovers but may increase the problems that a rovers may have during moon travel. A Segway-based design may help if some unexpected problems will happen. ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
Segway technology is very interesting to build a moonrover but there are two other aspects of my idea that may be VERY GOOD for Segway company and Segway communities: 1. Segway can't build and launch 200+ moonrovers for a complete moon exploration (as explained in the "Vision for Moonrovers' Exploration" on my website), but, if Segway's moonrovers' technology will works well, Segway can sell it to other companies and labs that can simply add their own instruments to a "base-rover" to meet their planned exploration's targets! 2. Thanks to Segway's moonrovers, Segway technology and Segway products may become MUCH MORE known and popular than now, so, Segway LLC will sell MUCH MORE Segways and, thanks to scale-economy, its unit price will finally FALL VERY MUCH to become affordable for a larger number of users! I hope that at Segway LLC some will read this post and follow my suggestion! ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
Any way you slice it, and especially for all those spandex wearing bicycle enthusiasts that are so frequently bashing segs, I don't know what the rover will look like but I feel it will surely not be a bicycle! (Unless, of course, someone comes up with a spandex spacesuit!)
Karl Ian Sagal Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass. |
Rumor has it that the next generation of lunar rovers will be built by Mattel.
JohnM Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours. RUSA #235 |
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A "1st generation" moonrover (travels and 3D images only) may be VERY SIMPLE and made with: - movable 3D camera with 8 Mpixels' "eyes" - litium batteries - solar panels - four/six metallic wheels - four/six stepper motors - little parabolic antenna - digital radio TX/RX - control computer - gyroscopic system (for Segway version) all running controls and image memory may be on earth and don't need to be on the rover, so, its weight may be only around 200 lbs.! of course, all rovers' parts may be "military-grade" (made for very high and low temperatures and better MTBF), but the moonrovers' unit cost may be less than $500,000 each! the real high cost is the rocket to launch it that, to-day, starts from $15 million of a 1000 lbs. payload Pegasus to $20-30 million of 2-3 tons payload launchers that price are TOO MUCH for me (and probably for you) but NOT for THOUSANDS little-mid companies around the world! BIG COMPANIES SPEND MUCH MORE THAN $20 BILLION PER WEEK ONLY FOR ADVERTISING! ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
In my moonprize's webpage I've added an image of a "private moonrover" with a possible (well known) Sponsor www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html Of course, since the cost of a moonrover will be low and its prestige very high, many big and mid Companies may send on the moon their own rovers with their own Logos and Colors... Coca Cola, Pepsi, McDonald's, Microsoft, Virgin, Segway, Oracle, Lufthansa, BMW, etc. ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
before we put segway on the moon, we might want to put a few more on EARTH!
....for as long as I can STAND.... |
Uhhh.....guys.....I think he's serious........wow.
Wayne (who definetly doesn't have THAT much time on his hands) Segway of Alberta - Calgary www.mysegway.ca |
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also, in next weeks, I will design the moonrovers' prize RULES (1.0) and (probably in january 2006) I will propose (and publish on my website) some ideas about a possible moonrover design and mission steps ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
I think anyone would'd by happy enough just to get anything into space. Let alone land a moonrover on the Moon.
-Tanner ---------------- Tanner S. |
Sounds so simple !
When you build stuff that has to be reliable, it costs a whole lot more. Aircraft grade stuff costs many times normal consumer grade prices. The consequences of gear not working are so dramatic. Well space grade stuff it even more so ! How much would it cost to send a service technician to the moon ?? I guess that the real numbers would be prohibitive. My 2c worth anyway. Michael |
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the most important part of each mission will be the earth to orbit flight, but it is "included in the price" of all rockets... you give the "box" and they will launch it to the orbit you want the launch from earth orbit to moon may be easy with the same low cost engines and technology used with hundreds geostationary comm satellites the lunar landing will need some research but an airbag-like landing may be simple and low cost about moon repair... the strategy of my idea of VME (see its page on my website) is completely different from past rovers' strategy NOT a few, very high priced, "perfect" rovers, but, HUNDREDS reliable and very low cost rovers! if we send four $100 million each "perfect" rovers, they MUST work! but, if rovers will cost $500,000 each, we can send dozens rovers with each rocket, so, if 30% of them will fail, the 70% that work well may explore the entire moon surface about moonrovers' prize competition... I think that the "first prize competition" may need only a "safe moon landing and a few days of 3D images", we can't want too much from first missions next, when we will have more experience, more complex competitions can be made ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
The original moonrover tires were spun or woven out of stainless steel piano wire . The tweel technology is awsome
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if you are really trying to put a segway on the moon, then it better be a XT... love them XT's
....for as long as I can STAND.... |
As I understand it, there's already a fairly well-established relationship between DEKA/Segway and NASA. I'm sure NASA is well aware of Segway's products and capabilities ... those both released to the public and yet to be revealed. If there's a way that Segway technology could be used in future moon missions, I'm sure that's already been considered.
Brooster |
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however, I hope that Segway will offer its technology and experience also to universities and private companies to send HUNDREDS exploration rovers on the moon, not only half dozen! ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
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only big companies and space agencies like NASA may have the funds and experience to develop and use things like it I hope that Segway will develop and sell a simple Segway-based technology devoted only to easy and safe moving on the unknown moon surface to avoid obstacles and solve traveling problems, so, little companies and universities may use that technology as a reliable base for simple and complex moonrovers ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
Just some anecdotal evidence of a "relationship" between DEKA and NASA. On the first page of this old (2000) WIRED article, you'll see who one of Dean's houseguests was ... [now former] NASA Administrator Dan Goldin. NASA's former top man, and longest-serving administrator. Good article if you've not seen it.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.09/kamen.html Brooster |
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about Segway/NASA... apparently the only cooperation is the the NASA's "humanoid" with Segway wheels... no other projects known but I found interesting the "Segway Mobility Platform" www.segway.com/segway/rmp/ unfortunately it is only for earth use I hope that Segway will design a moon version that space researchers can buy and use at a reasonable price ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
You're welcome. I just hope that Segway does whatever it needs to do to stay in business here on Earth.
Brooster |
I'm all for advancement of technology, and maybe (hopefully) I'm missing something in this whole concept, but it strikes me that what you're talking about here is a potential global investment of many billions of dollars, including an R&D investment on Segway's part of, at the very least, many millions of dollars on little more than the pure speculation that other firms will;
1.- be interested enough to commit many millions of their own dollars in sponsorship funds, or 2.- dedicate huge resources to develop a program to launch a lunar mission 3.- follow through with said lunar mission, deal with the huge logistics issues, the politics (equally huge), the press, both positive and negative and actually go ahead and send a mission up...to test what, exactly? That it can be done? it would be little more than repeating something that has already been done, decades ago, and the folks that did it have not seen sufficient reasons since to repeat the exercise. I'm certianly not a rocket scientist and wouldn't want to speculate as to the reasons they haven't, but they are (rocket scientists, that is) and I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with both money and bang for their buck. What you're talking about is a staggering investment of time, energy, money and brainpower effectively re-inventing the wheel, and one that already made a good many revolutions at that. In a perfect world, what a cool idea. Unfortunately, our world is far from perfect, and I don't think I'll be donating much of my own money to the project, for much the same reasons that NASA hasn't. Maybe we'd be better served if we spent even a wee small bit of that money, energy, time and thought on first making some realistic gains in the way we treat the place we live (good old Mother Earth), than engaging in a competition to see whole can put together the biggest glide in space. Once we've dealt with some of the more immediate issues we have here on our home planet, what the heck, let's go after making a whole ton of XT tracks on the Moon, or Mars for that matter. I think I'd kind of prefer to see Segway spend that money improving the terrestial versions that we're all so passionate about, improving the acceptance and use of Segways and other energy efficient, environmentally friendly tools. Maybe, if they did something like that first, there may come a day where the first Lunar Segfest becomes a reality. just my 2 cents Canadian (1.6 cents American...the Canuck buck's getting stronger!) Wayne Segway of Alberta - Calgary www.mysegway.ca |
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I think that spend money for space is NOT a waste, you can agree that space has many usefull applications (weather sat, comm, etc.) but we can't have only good things, final applications is also a result of many mistakes about moonrovers... they don't need BILLIONS... NASA has a plan to send a few rovers in 2010-2015 to search land sites for new manned missions... well... the total NASA budget for that plan will be around $400 million! consider that NASA has high prices, high specs, heavy vehicles, army of scientists and engineers to pay, infrastructures, expensive rockets, etc. a private (single and very litte) moonrover may need a few millions to develop, a few (companies or universities) engineers and a $20 million "commercial" rocket to launch (many countries and space companies sell them including launch support) about the "unperfect world"... I think that a private moon race may happen JUST because we are in an unperfect world where 90% of money is not spend for research but for useless things and for "image", prestige, games, advertising, etc. (the money to launch a rover on the moon may be LESS than ONE superbowl TV commercial...) with my prize I want to demonstrate that launch a rover on the moon may be easy also for privates and at low cost, but the effort will be NOT only for advertising and prestige, in fact, one of the rules will be that winners must share and give FREE rovers' knowlendge, moon images and moon exploration time to the world's scientific community the final purpose of the prize is NOT only "advertising" and "prestige" but... MORE space, MORE science, MORE exploration, MORE konwlendge ---------------------------------------------- Moonrovers' Prize Competition www.gaetanomarano.it/moonprize/moonprize.html |
I agree on some level with both Dragan and SpaceBatMan.
I have always been mystified with the fanatic support for some things on earth (Sports figures earning millions of dollars) and not enough support for other things (Teachers and firemen and policemen not getting nearly a comparable wage). Regardless of my confusion, it still is the reality. I believe that space exploration has several values. There is value in learning anything new. There is value in learning how to do things differently (In vaccuum, less gravity, etc) and then applying that back home. There is value in getting technologists all fired up creating new technologies, many of the near misses being very useful as well. To only work for today's problems is short sighted. It is like spending all your effort to build a fire and gather wood to feed it, and not building a good shelter. You have to prepare for the future as well as fix the present, and new technologies and creative attitudes do help the future. You also must not loose sight of the current issues. It also makes no sense to spend all your efforts building a shelter for next year, and ignore the fire today, if you get so cold that you get sick and die... I often use an old saying that I think applies here. Anyone who truely wants to beat a forest fire needs to have as many people cutting down trees as those he has tossing buckets of water. That balance is a difficult one to maintain, but well worth the effort... Karl Ian Sagal Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass. |
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Now, making a working segway, with interactive balance technology, using mechanical relays, weights, pulleys, cables and pendulums... That would be an invention...
Karl Ian Sagal Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass. |
Don't misunderstand what I was getting at spacebatman...first of all, I am decidedly a Techie...most Segway dealers actually do fall into that category. Nor am I a fool; I fully understand and appreciate the benefits we have gained from space exploration, and will continue to gain from it. That said, the computer, LCD's, pacemakers, MP3, etc. of the world don't owe their entire existance to the space program, nor does the Segway, I assure you.
My point was more based in the legitimacy of the proposal, and what significant steps forward would be potentially gained by entering into obstensibly a contest to put a quantity of rovers on the moon. Would there be some technical benefits, perhaps breakthroughs? Maybe...I don't know, and I stated that. I deferred to the experts, who do know far better than you or I and they are not intent of pursueing the idea with the vigor they once did. Some of that is certainly political will or lack thereof. Some of it truly comes down to bang for the buck. Karl's absolutely right, there is a point of balance, and it's difficult to maintain it. What I was suggesting is that tipping the balance point even by the paltry sum of 400 million is still tipping the balance. Is it worth it? At this point in history, my sense it that it probably isn't high enough on the list of global priorities to invest that kind of resource. But that's just my opinion, and opinions are like belly-buttons; everyone has one. The bottom line always comes down to a finite resource; money. The trick we all face is how best to utilize that money to better our lives, our environment and our future. Continuing with the exploration of space is something that I believe in just as strongly as you do, believe it or not. I think where we don't share the same opinion is where to spend some of that finite resource, and how. Wayne Segway of Alberta - Calgary www.mysegway.ca |
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