CSBs burned on my Segways
 

Hi,
I bought 3 used Segways 1st generation some days ago, and since then I'm trying to make them work.
The guy that sold them to me told me that the only problem are the batteries.
But in at least two of them the CSB were burned. I have only the NiMH batteries for p133 available and the LiFePo4 set for the XT. I'm missing the batteries for the i180.

The CSB of the p133 doesn't light up at all. I manage to run the p133 by opening the batteries and charging every cell separately. P133 run as normal although the Ni-Mh couldn't hold much energy...
The CSB though is burned. I opened the CSB from XT and connected it to p133. This CSB is exactly the same model but it is blinking red lights on both batteries. Opened the CSB and investigated the circuit. In both CSBs were burned components, most of them the same on both boards. I bought the components and replaced them but absolutely no luck. I'm completely stuck...

The third segway without batteries and when plugged to mains shows both LEDs stable red. Is this the expected behavior? I'm afraid to use that CSB too, i don't want to burn that too...

What is the default behavior of a CSB that is not connected to anything but the mains? Should light both LEDs stable RED?

Has anybody repaired succesfully this CSB (see attached photos)? If yes or if someone has a schematic please share.

Do you know the pinout/signal description of the connectors coming out of the CSB?

In photos in green area are included the components that were burned. 3 SMD resistors, one high voltage MOSFET and a 1W resistor. I replaced all of them but no luck...

Csb's are renowned for being fragile..

They come up on eBay from time to time.

They are really only 2x 100v 600mA power supplies, switched on or off by signals from the bms boards.

Was going to design a replacement but I don't think there is enough interest now as Segway declare them end of life. I have 12 gen 1 machines..lol

Hi dorrington,

you are the first person to reply to me and I'm thankful for that.
I'm an electroniker and I'm really trying hard to fix these two burned CSBs. My two segways are useless without them.
I have replaced several burned components including the Mosfet P9NB50, and some resistors connected to it but in my first attempt to power it up it blew up again.
Have you ever done a successful repair? What components need to be replaced. Some of the components were burned so I couldn't check their values so there was some lucky guess. Could anyone help me on this?

What is the normal behavior of a CSB unconnected from the mainboards? Should it light stable red? Is it ok to power it up with no load?

Does anybody know the pinout of the two connectors coming out of it?

The default behaviour of a CSB with no battery packs fitted is two red LEDs.

The little clear plastic oval window has 'F' on the left for the Front battery, and 'R' on the right for the Rear battery. There is a lot of bleed between these two LEDs, so it can be a bit confusing if one LED is not lit at all (faulty) while the other is glowing.

Your third CSB is possibly ok, with its two sold red LEDs. Simply attach a pair of battery packs and see what happens. Since your NiMH's are end-of-life (ie hold very little capacity), try charging the Lithium packs with it. The i180 and XT use the same Lithium packs, so you can put those packs onto either machine.

Ideally, 5-10 seconds after applying mains power to the PT with your (hopefully good) CSB and Lithium packs attached you'll see two solid green LEDs. The LEDs will stay solid green until the packs are mostly recharged (this could take up to 8 hours, but best to leave them attached for 12 hours). After the primary charging phase has completed (solid green), the LEDs will begin to blink quickly (cell-balancing phase) for an hour or two, then shift to slow-blink (trickle charge).

If you have a device that measures watts (or amps) flowing from the mains socket to the CSB, this can provide useful information....

Finally, I'd suggest repacking your NiMH battery packs with modern cells...you'll have yourself a fantastic little p133 to zip around on. Perhaps contact Jason at MTO Battery, he can probably help you out with this.

While the i180 and XT are both much more capable machines in just about every respect, the p-Series delivers a surprising amount of fun - and convenience - for shorter commutes. It really is engaging to ride, and with new NiMH's it will be surprisingly perky!

Riding the p-Series' with its relatively light weight and smaller size reveals a true gap that has existed in the market since its demise. It was a product before it's time, really. I've always argued it was a fatal error to have not had the p-Series make the jump to Lithium and LeanSteer in 2006/7.....Years later, the Ninebot PTR (C and E variants) were pretty much exactly the same dimensions of the p-Series, and pre-merger there was intended to be a T ("Turbo") variant with full redundant sub-systems....you can even see space inside the casting for the redundancy components.

Hi Philip,
initially I didn't want to attach the working CSB on batteries that I didn't know if they had healthy circuits, in order to avoid burning that csb too.
After I checked the csb on the I180 with good batteries (from a friend) I connected it finally to the p133 with the Ni-Mh batteries, which I had opened and charged manually in advance. The charging works but the batteries don't hold much. I didn't know about the different charging phases so I was unplugging it when the LEDS had become solid green. I'll let it now plugged to see if there will be any balancing, though I'm not sure in the case of p133 if it works that way. Currently after half an hour the LEDs are still solid green. I think in Ni-Mh no balancing takes place (I know that balancing is for Li-Ion but these batteries have 6 different groups inside, so I thought balancing could be applicable between these groups)

I appriciate the portability of the P133 too, so I'll try to convert it to Lithium batteries. Does anybody have done the same?
I build batteries myself so I'll try to do it myself. The problem is that every battery has 6 groups of 9,6V so I cannot just replace every group with let's say 3 cells Li-Ion, as the total voltage will be 12.6 per group...
Instead I was thinking to make a 2x 8s battery with li-ion and BMS and plug it on the total poles of the groups. This would be the best option but I believe the battery checks every group separately so it will probably complain about the intermediate voltages not being correctly. I'll open a separate thread on this...