I2 SE - battery charging but not?
 

Hi all - recently purchased a used i2 SE, and I’m having an issue we’re diagnosing together (both myself & the seller - they’ve been super responsive and helpful!)

Long story short - when I plug the i2 SE in, I’m getting two green charging lights, but it doesn’t appear the batteries are “taking” the charge. I’ve only had it a few days but I’m down to 3 bars left on the Infokey. I’ve charged it pretty much 24x7 the last few days, and I just continue to get the solid green lights - it never goes to blinking and upon powering up, I’m at the same level on the Infokey that I was at before charging. It does deplete as I take it out and about.

Any suggestions what’s going on? The seller will be calling Segway Inc shortly on my behalf but I thought I’d poke at the collective wisdom.

The only thing we could come up with is that it’s cold outside, but it’s being charged in a heated garage. It’s about 64 degrees in the garage, so I doubt that’s it.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Worth a shot
 

I don't know the answer.
But given the holidays, this is what I would try whilst waiting for those Segway experts to respond.

It 'smells' like most of the gear is working, and maybe you have had a glitch ( did you have any thunderstorms or power blackouts ? ).
So I would try to re-start it.

To do a cold reset, remove both batteries.
Leave them off for a decent time, say 15 minutes.
( observe the battery date codes, or just post the first 6 digits here ).

Re-fit the batteries and see what happens.
Good luck.

Michael
www.dgbint.com

How about running it until the batteries deplete themselves, then recharge. I've read somewhere that this re-celebrates the level of charge.

Yes, good catch. Just leave it running, parked pressing against a wall, until it stops. Then charge.

(See "recalibrate" in the reference manual.)

Wasnt there a problem with the charging of the first runs of the SE?

I thought I read it here?

Recalibrating (or 're-celebrating') the gauge is probably a good idea, but I would first want to know for sure that it *will* recharge before running them all the way down and *then* discovering that it won't

Don

Bingo. That’s entirely my concern. Right now I’m planning to swap front/rear batteries but fighting a stripped screw in the front battery. Hoping to get it out fairly cleanly - going to try a slightly oversized hex head, then a torx driver and worst case, put a little epoxy on a sacrificial hex key and let it cure overnight. When it rains, sometimes it pours. :-/

Thank you Michael! I've managed to get the stripped screw out (anyone got a source for replacement battery screws?) quite easily by using an SAE hex driver one size larger. Trying to be delicate but finally got it to break free and was able to coax it out.

Left the batteries out for a few minutes, swapped positions and reinstalled. Let's see what happens. No thunderstorms, blackouts or brownouts either. All good there.

Anywho - serial #'s are:

C051414xxxxx
C091813xxxxx

Both are Revision AH. Segway has 3750 miles on it.

So let's see what comes from a few hours on the charger... I'm down to 2 bars right now, so hopefully this gets sorted quickly. Again, the seller offered me a 6-month guarantee against any issues - and reiterated that when I mentioned the charging issue - so I'm sure it'll all work out in the end with a happy Segway... just want to get it sorted.

Battery Life
 

OK

My experience is that Segway batteries should last about 10 years, if well looked after.
Your batteries should NOT yet be approaching end of life;

C051414xxxxx
Manufactured May 14 2014

C091813xxxxx
Manufactured Sept 18 2013

As I recall, the screws are M4 ( metric ) cap screw, 30 mm
If you cannot find at your local store, there's always eBay like this;
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10xM3-M4...t/122705877050
( i have not used them, but hey for a couple of bucks how far wrong can you go )



Good Luck.

Our local WestLake Ace Hardware store has them.

I don't understand that logic. Please explain.

Well, let’s say there’s nothing wrong with the batteries themselves, but the charging circuit has a problem.

If I run them down all the way - to the point beyond being able to power up my Segway - we’ve got a problem. At that point, I’ve got two dead batteries that may or may not come back AND a faulty power base.

But if I leave “some” charge in the battery, at least the seller can swap these batteries into another power base and figure out if the problem follows or not. If the problem is the batteries, fine, they’ll swap it out. Same for the powerbase.

So I’m playing with it overnight - leaving the batteries out altogether to hopefully “force” the Segway to reset itself. I don’t believe there are any storage capacitors onboard so this “should” do a full reset, in theory.

Again, the initial thought was around temperature, but the garage heater has been on 24x7 all week (I do not want to see that electric bill!). It’s averaging about 64 degrees in there, which I’m assuming should be sufficient to charge, yes?

Well, I assumed (bad I know) that we all know what happens to a dead Seg battery when you leave it sit long enough without recharging it

If I'm going to run them dead on purpose, I sure would want to be able to recharge them ASAP

If they won't charge when they have a 30% SOC, they're probably not going to charge when they're down near 0% either

Don

And if the problem is with the "calibration" (i.e., the Infokey is incorrectly showing the state of charge)? - that is, neither the batteries nor the powerbase?

Note that the calibration procedure (in the instruction manual) does not discharge the battery to zero. The Segway (if operating properly) will turn off at the point where the batteries can be recharged. That's the same point that it would, if gliding, do the "stick shake warning" and shut down.

Please keep us informed as things develop.

My guess (and yes, just a guess!) is that the calibration isn’t really the issue since the battery depletion has been about as I would expect. So it’s not as if the gauge is “stuck” per se - it’s going down as I use the battery.

I also suspect it’s not a calibration issue since the charging lights go green and stay solid green - even after a full day, no blinking at all. If the batteries were really “topped off” and just the gauge was out of whack, the lights would blink, right? I’d rather leave a little charge in the battery if I can, rather than bring it down to stick-shaker level. If nothing else, that’ll make it easier for me to move it around if I have to pack it up.

Unfortunately I don’t have the gear to check the battery capacity. I could put a multimeter on it, but that wouldn’t tell us anything but the voltage - no real bearing on the level of charge.

Ugh - if I had a second unit here, it’d be easier to diagnose. Did the overnight battery-out hard reset, with the batteries in the house at 72 degrees. Plugged it in about 9am this morning; will check again at 9pm tonight and if it’s still showing 2 bars ... methinks we have a charger problem.

Just assuming until we speak with Segway Inc but for now - it’s all I got. :-)

Here is how I would proceed with this repair in our shop. Based on what you are describing there are 3 components that I would focus on with the SE model, in the following order:
Power Board- likely the issue
Radio Board- possible
AC Input Filter- very rare

Verify charging- remove the batteries and take the voltage reading on both batteries for the baseline initial voltage reading. Reinstall the batteries and place the unit on charge for approximately 30 minutes. Remove the batteries and take the voltage reading again. There should be an increase from your initial voltage reading. If the voltage is the same, or lower, then the Power Board is the likely component that has failed.

If there is an increase in voltage during this initial test, I would then place the unit on charge for 8-12 hours. Retake the voltage reading afterwards and if you have a reading in the 78 range then the batteries are fully charged. Even though you are getting solid green lights and only 2 bars, the radio board may be failing which is not giving you the correct infokey information. The are other obvious signs that appear first, like trouble powering the unit on and off. This is likely not the issue, but it’s a possibility.

This is a start...

Power Boards run about $280 and take about .5 hours to swap out.

Excellent diagnosis! I just pulled and checked. Batt A is 75.3 volts; Batt B is 75.2. I’d say that’s fairly strong and well balanced between A-side and B-side.

I’m going to go for the gusto here and drain it in Wall-leaning mode. Let’s see what happens.

Thanks for the input - stay tuned!

This was not in my recommendation at all. If you have a faulty power board then you will have no way to charge them.

That was in the earlier recommendations - to try to recalibrate the gauge. If you think that’s a bad idea I’ll go shut it off and wait for Segway Inc’s response after the holiday. I agree; I don’t really want fully drained batteries but at 75+ volts, it sounds like they’re not near the 2 bars that’s showing on the Infokey ... but I fully admit I’m out of my depth here.

Do not drain the batteries down. I gave you a starting point. The voltage reading you are taking is the “resting” voltage of the battery. Once a load is placed on them the voltage will drop based on charge level and there is no way for you to monitor a battery like that unless you have the proper equipment that places a simulated load on the batteries while it is OFF the unit.

Disclosure- I am Level III trained in Segway PT repairs, and I repair 200+ units per year. Some repairs are straight forward, but yours will take a bit of time to R/O what component may be the root cause.

Thank you again for your guidance! I'm going to wait until we speak with Segway Inc at this point to do anything further; this unit is new to me, and the seller has agreed to either replace what's broken, or the entire unit, based on what Segway Inc says. They've been nothing but pleasant and responsive, but given that I'm located about halfway between the seller and Inc in NH, doing what I can to diagnose up front and minimizing shipping (and shipping costs!) is prudent.

Again, really really appreciate your guidance - the rest of the unit seems solid and I can't wait to get it to 100% health so I can enjoy many years of fun with it!

I take it the last time you rode your SE you came back and plugged it in and you haven't ridden it very far since then because you don't have blinking green lights?

Rather than run the batteries down to where the machine shuts off, I think I would take it for a 4 or 5 mile glide, check the voltage again then before you plug it in and then again after a few hours on the charger. Your voltage should go down below 75 after the ride and then back up again after the charge if the charger is working at all

But, the fact that your lights never blink green says (to me at least) that you're going to need to have it looked at by a professional who can change the part which is causing that problem

For reference if it helps you any - I have three spare batteries, all around 8 or 10 years old which are not currently on any machine and haven't been recharged for 6 or 8 months (I don't have an off board charger) and I just checked them. One is 75.1, one is 75.2 and the last one is 75.3. I consider those to be nearly fully charged - I know I can put any two of them on a Seg and ride it 10 or 15 miles because I've done it before

Don

So the next step in troubleshooting per INC is to swap in another set of batteries and examine the behavior.... likelihood is a bad charging board but we shall see.

Unfortunately... I don't have another set of batteries, so we're going to ship the entire unit back to the seller, and they will troubleshoot and either repair this one or replace it with another unit. Either way I'll be good to go soon.

Curious what the final result will be - my $5 is on a bad power board, but we shall find out!

Bingo! You nailed it. Thanks for the diagnosis!

It's at the dealer now and we're waiting for the replacement power board. Once it comes in next week, they'll button it up and send it back so I can get started in earnest. At least, if the weather cooperates that is!

Other than the charging circuit, they said the Segway itself is in good shape; just a bum power supply board (they called it a BCA - does that make sense?)

So hopefully this'll be all set by next week and I'll be off to the races. Which is good because I've got some accessories to install (headlight, key holder, etc.) - and a set of comfort mats on the way.

Well, just closing the loop here ... received the i2 SE back last night and ... all is perfect! It runs like a top. Charges perfectly. Everything is great!!

Now all I need is some cooperative weather and I can’t wait to get out and enjoy a nice long ride. The unit seems like it’s in great shape - batteries are good, strong, and everything runs wonderfully.

Can’t wait to get out and explore.