Segway disability sticker discussion...

[ronzul]

Hello, and sorry for a long post...

A significant amount of the "Australia - $1000 fine" topic ended up being about how people felt regarding the use of a disability sticker. I thought it might be worthwhile continuing that in a new topic...
quote:Pam
One thing about a sticker is that if the police *don't* see one and approach you re:using the Segway, they're assuming you have no "need" - and once they've taken a stance, what I've found is that a lot of people are unable to back away from that stance gracefully (anything to not be "wrong," even if it means being nasty to the person who has "made them wrong." {sigh}).

With a handicapped sticker or sign, it's entirely possible they might be willing to give the glider more leeway upfront, thus not putting themselves in a position of having to "take a position" -
Thanks for that Pam, I didn't really think of your "pre-emptive" argument before. So far I have just thought that I have no issue being stopped by security guards and providing my medical certificate when requested. I thought that my medical certificate is going to carry more weight than an unofficial sticker I have printed and stuck to my machine, and any security guard that is nasty/rude/ask me to leave etc after seeing a medical certificate would not feel any different if they saw a disability sticker.

Although now that I have been thinking about this question again, I have thought of another reason in favour of using the sticker. Basically, the Segway is the first mobility device that many able-bodied people would want to use, and is appropriate for certain persons with disabilities. No security guard asks someone in an electric wheelchair for evidence of a disability, because of a reasonable assumption that an able-bodied person would have no desire to use an electric wheelchair.

Perhaps a security guard seeing some sort of disability sticker on a Segway would conclude the same thing. Few able-bodied persons would use a disability sticker just to ride a Segway through a shopping mall. (Perhaps not as definitive as the able-bodied person in an electric wheelchair, but perhaps still valid nonetheless).
quote:legpain
Those who are in security jobs MUST do that protecting the public thing, and uphold the law! By not using a sticker all you’re doing is flaunting the law and you will be dinged/caught
I have no issue being stopped by security guards. They have every right to stop me and ask for evidence of a disability. I don't believe that I am "flaunting the law" by not using a sticker. I perhaps would be "flaunting the law" if I was not willing to provide a medical certificate.
quote:legpain
The use of handicapped stickers ONLY mean you have a handicap, it doesn’t mean you’re stupid, NOT using a sticker means you are!I don't know what your experience of having a disability is, but this briefly (without too many violins) is mine... lost my job, couldn't work, had absolutely no idea what I would do with the rest of my life, couldn't cook, shop, clean my unit, drive etc etc...

Very fortunately, speech recognition technology became available which I was able to adapt for software development from its intended dictation tasks. I have managed to get back into my career, afford to pay someone to clean my unit, and do my laundry. Internet shopping has become available, which means that I am no longer dependent on others for day-to-day type stuff.

And the release of the Segway can not be described as anything less than a godsend for me. It has opened up my world in unbelievable ways, and that I have not needed to use an electric wheelchair which could not compare in any case.

To me the use of a disability sticker would be a constant reminder of years of physical, emotional and financial pain, and the despair, depression, darkness and sometimes trauma of my medical condition.

Perhaps I can be "accused" of carrying the emotional scars of these experiences which clouds my judgment about using a disability sticker for the Segway, but in terms of being accused of being stupid, no such luck dude!

Out of curiosity, what types of stickers do people use? I know that SegwayBill uses a 3x3 inch sticker for the bottom of the control shaft, and that legpain uses stickers on the fenders. Does anyone else use something different?




---
Who said that you shouldn't get carried away on your Segway?

[Segway City]

In my wife's case, the only signifying factor of disability is her disabled parking hang-tag permit issued by the state. Her Class IV heart condition does not manifest itself outwardly in her appearance, only in symptoms and resulting limitations. Qualification for the tag was a simple affidavit by her physician that her condition prevents her from walking 200' without stopping to rest (her limit is ~50'). As a result, the only "proof" of her disability is that placard.

I took the placard to the local copy shop, color copied it to 1/2 size, laminated it and (when neccesary) stick it between the mat and the CS base when we go to malls or other commercial establishments. It is visible if looked for, easily grabbed, shown and replaced if needed, yet not thrust at the world like some boastful proclamation. If they want more information on the underlying medical condition causing the disability, it is courteously declined as none of their business, excessive, and intrusional; as once the disability is certified, rejection of access due to degree or type of disability would be actionably discriminatory.

[KSagal]

Ronzul,

Excellent post.

Live your life by your standards, and do not worry about other people's definitions.

I am a disabled Vet, but at this time, I am generally able to not need the assistances of a handicapped plate or plackard. I do not have one mostly because of two reasons. Abuse of the priviliges is all too common here in Massachusetts, and because I have friends and family that have the need, and I choose not to diminish their challenges by associating my relatively small challenges to theirs. A purely personal conclusion.

Use your devices as you see fit, as long as you are not infringing on others, and document only to the degree that you are comfortable with.

You will have plenty of support for that position...


Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[legpain]

I've said my piece. The stickers stopped the problems when they're seen. I won't keep kicking a dead horse because of pride. As Karl said live your own life, it will be your own, with and without the problems.

John

[legpain]

BTW, you should take this over to www.draft.cc. There will be others with like problems.

John

[JM Wilber]

I have a segway logo for disabled , that covers up the original logo on my i2
now & than I see officials & security personal noticing the logo but I've never been asked for proof of disability gliding on my segway

[Lily Kerns]

[ I took the placard to the local copy shop, color copied it to 1/2 size, laminated it and (when neccesary) stick it between the mat and the CS base when we go to malls or other commercial establishments. It is visible if looked for, easily grabbed, shown and replaced if needed, yet not thrust at the world like some boastful proclamation. If they want more information on the underlying medical condition causing the disability, it is courteously declined as none of their business, excessive, and intrusional; as once the disability is certified, rejection of access due to degree or type of disability would be actionably discriminatory.]

There are a number of factors involved here. The idea is that the disabled should be treated like anyone else. Personally I find that _requiring_ one to display a disabled sticker under any condition is discriminatory. On the other hand there is the practical side of things. There does need to be some way to be able to indicate that you are entitled to park in that handicapped space for example. A state issued permit for driving or parking does seem to be a reasonable compromise. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone enforcing it... but that is another topic. <G>

Under ADA 2010, your state issued permit MUST be accepted as sufficient proof of your disability. Further more they must also accept your verbal assurance to that effect unless they have some visual evidence to the contrary. So if you don't have that with you, they must still accept your assurance of disability.

Furthermore, forget carrying your physician's statement with you. Under the law the ONLY question they can ask is if you are disabled or if you have a medical reason for using your Segway. They are not entitltled to nor can they ask for _any_ more information than that. I, personally, will carry the matter further if they try to do this. Frankly, this is a matter on which I have totally lost my patience.

I choose to have a corner of it showing in my local Simon Mall to make it easier for them to confirm without any bother that I am disabled. So far as I know I am probably the only person--other than their security people --who uses one there. After having been threatened with arrest in there three years ago, time has modified their stance and they are both courteous and amicable.

I carry my disability card in my bag, along with a summary of ADA law relating to Segways, but it has been a while since I have needed either. A year ago in a convention center I was greeted with the medical question, then told I needed to sign a waiver that would absolve them of any liability--even if it were their fault. (Also illegal unless everyone has to sign the same waiver for the activity involved.) After several minutes of conversation the woman I was talking told told me to go on in and forget the waiver. I didn't argue. Later that day the security guard told me that I had been talking to the owner of the show and that she had been so impressed by how it worked that she had decided it would not be a liability.

There is still a lot of educating to be done, but it happens one bit at a time.
Vigilance is still required, but courtesy and friendliness --and knowing what you are talking about---go a long way...

[Jmay]

These plastic hangers are official for handicap parking. If hung on your handle bar I would think few questions would be asked.
Jmay

A significant amount of the "Australia - $1000 fine" topic ended up being about how people felt regarding the use of a disability sticker. I thought it might be worthwhile continuing that in a new topic...

Thanks for that Pam, I didn't really think of your "pre-emptive" argument before. So far I have just thought that I have no issue being stopped by security guards and providing my medical certificate when requested. I thought that my medical certificate is going to carry more weight than an unofficial sticker I have printed and stuck to my machine, and any security guard that is nasty/rude/ask me to leave etc after seeing a medical certificate would not feel any different if they saw a disability sticker.

Although now that I have been thinking about this question again, I have thought of another reason in favour of using the sticker. Basically, the Segway is the first mobility device that many able-bodied people would want to use, and is appropriate for certain persons with disabilities. No security guard asks someone in an electric wheelchair for evidence of a disability, because of a reasonable assumption that an able-bodied person would have no desire to use an electric wheelchair.

Perhaps a security guard seeing some sort of disability sticker on a Segway would conclude the same thing. Few able-bodied persons would use a disability sticker just to ride a Segway through a shopping mall. (Perhaps not as definitive as the able-bodied person in an electric wheelchair, but perhaps still valid nonetheless).

I have no issue being stopped by security guards. They have every right to stop me and ask for evidence of a disability. I don't believe that I am "flaunting the law" by not using a sticker. I perhaps would be "flaunting the law" if I was not willing to provide a medical certificate.
I don't know what your experience of having a disability is, but this briefly (without too many violins) is mine... lost my job, couldn't work, had absolutely no idea what I would do with the rest of my life, couldn't cook, shop, clean my unit, drive etc etc...

Very fortunately, speech recognition technology became available which I was able to adapt for software development from its intended dictation tasks. I have managed to get back into my career, afford to pay someone to clean my unit, and do my laundry. Internet shopping has become available, which means that I am no longer dependent on others for day-to-day type stuff.

And the release of the Segway can not be described as anything less than a godsend for me. It has opened up my world in unbelievable ways, and that I have not needed to use an electric wheelchair which could not compare in any case.

To me the use of a disability sticker would be a constant reminder of years of physical, emotional and financial pain, and the despair, depression, darkness and sometimes trauma of my medical condition.

Perhaps I can be "accused" of carrying the emotional scars of these experiences which clouds my judgment about using a disability sticker for the Segway, but in terms of being accused of being stupid, no such luck dude!

Out of curiosity, what types of stickers do people use? I know that SegwayBill uses a 3x3 inch sticker for the bottom of the control shaft, and that legpain uses stickers on the fenders. Does anyone else use something different?




---
Who said that you shouldn't get carried away on your Segway?[/QUOTE]

[rwoynaro]

I have a plastic placard with the official blue handicap logo that attaches to the leansteer, right above the adjustment knob on my I2, got it from the Segcessory store. From my experience, it entirely changes people's perspective on you as a glider. I have a SegSaddle, so I suspect I fit the stereotype better than someone standing and gliding. IMO, it's a shame that you would need to justify your using the segway, as I am not any more/less intrusive or capable than any "able-bodied" glider. I have just decided that it's less hassle for me, so I put it on and people are instantly all happy shiny and welcome you in with a smile. I have had a few occassions where I had it covered with one of those little shopping baskets and people actually went out of their way to come over and heckle me with "you dont get any exercise with that thing, why dont you try walking instead ?" I loved the embarassed look on their faces when I pointed out that I basically cant, consequently I need to use the segway. In my experience, it definately changes most people's response; hopefully more people just learn to accept the segway for what it is... a darn useful and amazing device.

[Tarkus]

It really is a personal choice but IMO ones life will be far easier if a handicap sticker is flown.
Here in the U.S you need to fly it .

There is also an educational purpose for the sticker. I can't count the number of times people have given my a quick glare then see the sticker and say "I never thought of that what a great use for that machine".

For me just hacking thru life is a constant reminder and the Segway is also a reminder, a reminder that there is still so much left to do and with the proper tools I can get things done.

I wish you nothing but the best.

Be Big,
AMAC