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zoomster
05-05-2004, 04:03 AM
Anyone been checking ebay lately?

There's i models with a buy it now price of $4099 and p models at $3699.

They're advertised as new and shipped from LLC with warranty and free shipping. Could this be real? The history of the seller is good, but sounds too good to be true.




BruceWright
05-05-2004, 09:05 PM
Yeah, seems like an authorized dealer selling through ebay?

Strange.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

gotseg
05-05-2004, 10:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

Yeah, seems like an authorized dealer selling through ebay?

Strange.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream


thats what i'm thinkin...

http://www.giguphosting.com/gotseg/gotseg.gif
segless and looking

Burke
05-05-2004, 11:43 PM
I just reached my regional manager, who will be checking out this situation. No dealer is allowed to sell over the internet. The dealer agreement makes this perfectly clear. And how is the buyer getting coached? This will be a good test to see how Segway LLC reacts. The other thing that I don't understand is how a dealer can make enough money with a $400 discount and free shipping. The profit margin is pretty skinny as it is! Such internet selling will be the death of the dealer network before it even gets going!

Dick Burke
Segway of Orange County

TiVoAussie
05-06-2004, 12:23 AM
Anybody figure why there's "No delivery to Texas?" Neither the seller, nor Segway LLC, are Texas based... Is this some strange quirk of US commerce that a poor Aussie doesn't understand?

Cheers

Ron

There are a little over six thousand Segway owners!
There are a little over six billion people in the world!
We're two in a million! :)

Burke
05-06-2004, 12:54 AM
Segway of Texas has contractual rights to the whole state of Texas. No other dealer is allowed to sell in Texas. Segway of Texas was one of their original dealers.

Dick Burke

zoomster
05-06-2004, 03:54 AM
I don't think it's an issue. It's a different customer. I think most people are like me and want to see the person they're giving $4000-5000 to. It's hard for most to trust someone they've never met. Seeing someone's selling history does not make me feel more comfortable. How do I know they didn't sell a thousand $1 items to build the history and now I'm going to be taken for $4000. They just made $3000.

The dealer is the way to go. Having units on hand and buying from someone you can trust. That's what it's all about. Besides, for the amount of money for a Segway you should get the instant gratification. I know once I bought mine I couldn't sleep waiting till it arrived. I was like a kid waiting for Christmas. "Oh what fun it is to ride in a one person open seg!"

In the end, I'm new to ebay and certainly no expert. Maybe there's more ways to protect yourself I'm not aware of. What I will say is that I've been working with the Burkes and they've been a pleasure to work with. I can't wait to buy my wife's Segway from them. Based on my experience up till now, I would strongly recommend anyone looking to buy a new Seg to talk to the Burkes. They will be a guaranteed success.

ElectraGlide
05-06-2004, 10:26 AM
The seller states " no sales tax " and will not ship to Texas. I'm guessing the seller cant sell to Texas because they are located there and would have to charge a local sales tax which would increase the price another 240.00 or so. No sales tax when shipping out of state.
Is this a Texas dealer selling on the internet ??

Steve

SegwayUtah
05-06-2004, 10:58 AM
My guess: FRAUD

Burke is right. As I understand it, dealers are only allowed to sell HTs to walk-in customers (and those who have walked in before). They're not allowed to sell over the Internet, and I don't think they're supposed to sell units over the phone to "new customers." I think they can sell accessories over the phone, but it would be great to know for sure.

As to the auctions, they don't even have an accurate photo of the p-series. It looks very amateurish/fraud-ish to me. I don't know of any legitimate way that units could be shipped directly from Segway LLC at a discounted price unless there's something funny going on.

Chris

Sunday
05-06-2004, 11:28 AM
And with the mention of inventory issues due to the sudden surge in sales; this situation really doesn't make sense.

Mark

Segway-more fun than you can stand!

BruceWright
05-06-2004, 02:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by SegwayUtah

. They're not allowed to sell over the Internet, and I don't think they're supposed to sell units over the phone to "new customers."



Segway of Texas will sell nation-wide according to their website.






-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

SegwayUtah
05-06-2004, 05:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by BruceWright
Segway of Texas will sell nation-wide according to their website.


Hmm. Their website also reads:
"In June, 2003, Segway HT America became the first and exclusive distributor of the Segway Human Transporter."

I think their transition from "Segway of Texas" to "Segway HT America" didn't get proofread too closely. I think that used to say "IN TEXAS" at the end :)

One way to find out for sure is to call them, I suppose. If anyone calls, please report back here with the results! If dealers can take phone orders from new customers, that's just like Internet orders. I imagine that the dealer in a tax-free state (or like some have said, shipping across state boundaries and putting the use tax burden on the consumer) is going to become a very popular dealer.

Segway HT America (Segway of Texas): 1-800-349-2361 | 713-SEGWAYHT

My big question is how they deal with orientation. Are they just shipping to customers who promise they have had orientation, and/or who are on the master list? Or are they sending out DecisionOne to do it for new customers? They most certainly can't be just looking the other way, and pretending that the customer has already had orientation.

Chris

mrleisure
05-06-2004, 06:39 PM
Assuming the auction isn't fraudulent- Welcome to the gray market!

You see this type of thing when a manufacturer loses absolute control over their distribution/dealer channel. It's somewhat common and frequently works out well for the customer. In the computer business gray marketing is an established fact.

Manufacturers often have a love/hate relationship with gray marketers. They love that gray marketers can move tons of product quickly, but hate that clueless dealers are left standing on the dock. It's not exactly right, but not 100% wrong either. In a sense, it's the free market at it's best.

It works something like this:

Prices are fixed by the Manufacturer
Dealer is willing to take less margin, and make it up in volume
Dealer bends rules and tries un-authorized channels, often through a straw man
Dealer moves a ton of stock
Manufacturer's sales rep winks while lightly scolding dealer
Manufacturer introduces new product and promises stricker channel requirements to other less innovative dealers
Rinse, repeat cycle.

There are a million variations on this play. In some sense it's probably a good sign since it indicates the Segway market is heating up and (finally) maturing a bit.

"In the future, we will all drive standing up"
David Byrne, in 1984

johnjswang
05-07-2004, 08:40 AM
I am actually thinking about buying the segway through ebay. I am currently in Taiwan and instead of buying a scooter I may try the Segway, but a brand new scooter in Taiwan is only $2000usd. I like the Segway, but when I was living in suburban LA Segway's 10 mile radius is a little too short for daily chores.

Anyway I'll start on my job in a couple weeks being paid ~$1,000usd/month so every penny counts. Dealer support is really not going to be an issue for me since I'll be 6,000 miles away from home. I actually think Segway is more suitable in Asia where population density is a lot higher.. . .but it is not cheap. . .

vanclute
05-10-2004, 12:47 AM
BEWARE OF EBAY!!

I came just a breath away from buying a pair of machines through Ebay, but fortunately for me I did a lot of due dilligence and foud out the sale had to be bogus, because one of the machines (I got serial numbers from the seller) was actually IN SEGWAY OF TEXAS'S BASEMENT! The other was in Arizona with its owner. I reported the whole thing to Ebay and LLC, neither of which was particularly interested.

I am in CA and bought 2 machines from Segway of Texas/HT-America or whatever they call themselves now. They had NO qualms about shipping to me and selling over the phone, they did LOADS of work to arrange special shipping issues for me, called me back several times a day for a week, sent endless emails, and gave me an INCREDIBLE deal on the machines. Right out of the gate I got them for $500 off of list each. So, it *can* be done. Maybe it was because I was buying two, I don't know, but they were an absolutely fantastic dealer. I bought from Michael Miller over there, and he treated me very well so feel free to get in touch with him and see what he can do.

Of course I can't promise anyone else can get the same deal I got, maybe I just got a lucky break that day, but the moral of the story here is, although there *ARE* legit machines on Ebay, there are probably more frauds. If you are going to buy from Ebay, before you send one cent, make sure you:

Get the serial number(s) from the seller, as well as their name and location. Call LLC and give them the info, they will tell you if it matches with their records or not. That's about all they'll tell you, but if it's wildly different, you know something is up.

Ask LLC where the machine was originally shipped to, and contact the dealer in that area if possible. That's how I foudn out about Seg of TX, the machines on Ebay were sent to them (and as I said, one was still there!)

USE ESCROW!! With a sale of thie magnitude, no legit seller should scream about going through Escrow. Offer to either pay the costs, or see if they'll split them with you. www.escrow.com is a good place to start. Beware of shady escrow services too.

Ask lots of questions... ask to speak by phone, My seller wouldn't speak by phone, another tip-off.

Beware of people who will only accept cashier's check or money order. Use credit card/paypal if at all possible and find out what your CC company does about possible fraud. You may be protected.

The auction I won stated that "more pics available" but when I asked to see more, they suddenly couldn't get them to me. Any seller of such a pricey item shouldn't have a big issue sending another pic or two if it'll close the deal.

Ask the seller where they got it, what dealer, etc. Mine said they were a "gift from mother-in-law in NY". Yeah, right.

And above all always remember that old adage... if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. =(

J