Segways for the Disabled

[Sunday]

Just a thought to share: I was wondering how people might feel about organizing a charity that provides Segways, free of charge, to mobility impaired persons. This would be similar to the way service dogs are provided for the visually impaired. Any thoughts?

A good friend of mine is a former CFO for many nonprofit organizations like this, and I may ask her for her thoughts on the matter also. I imagine it would be a tremendous undertaking, but do you folks think it would be a good idea?


Sunday

[BruceWright]

I think it's a GREAT idea!

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[pam]

I think it would be super, too!
Pam

[edh]

Not disagreeing, I think this is a very noble concept, but what type of disabilities would you see the Segway being able to help?

Again, not disagreeing, but from my little corner of the world here are my thoughts... My Father is paralyzed on his left side from a stroke. Although he is able to walk with the help of a cane and leg brace - and years of physical therapy - I cannot imagine the Segway being safe for him to use alone. If there were ever any sudden situation (machine failure (unlikely), bad surface that he didn't see, sudden obstacle etc) I just don't think he would have the motor skill and coordination to control the machine and/or save a fall.

I am making a big assumption here, but I would guess many people who have lower body disabilities, but can still stand, would face similar problems by definition. I am not an expert here, but I have spent years around my Father, and many months with him at physical therapy - seeing many people in similar situations.

I do have an open mind here, and would love to hear some feedback on how the Segway could help - and become involved if I believe it to be a just cause.

[QuadSquad]

Well, two things. If this would be retroactive I will be happy to provide my address. (Just kidding!)

edh, I think your father would do wonderfully on a Segway, but only he could tell you for sure. I also cannot walk and use a wheelchair every day, but I also use the HT every day as well. It has changed my life and it has changed the life of many other disabled, some you will find posting here in this forum. Sometimes family members want to protect the disabled a little too much and consequently prevent them from attaining their full potential. My suggestion, have your father try an HT with several people around to monitor him, which will protect him, and also give him confidence which may allow him to feel comfortable on it. Look, you're not going to get much help or encouragement from LLC for the disabled, I really don't think they'll publicly talk to anyone or encourage it at all except for training a disabled person, if they come along. But I really think he can use it, just let him live a little, take a chance!

Now as for giving away HT's to the disabled, while I think that your heart is certainly in the right place I honestly believe that the disabled as a whole can use the money for many other things more important than HT's. If you're looking for a charitable venture for the disabled I think it's terrific and I also believe that while it would be wonderful to do it in the name of a Segway user group, unless LLC would underwrite it by giving the HT's at a terrific discount (which I doubt) I think the money could be used for a lot better purposes, I'll be happy to suggest a few!

[mattk]

Insurance should cover the purchase of a Ibot. I am not saying they will, but they should

[jillmac]

Edh - If your father has left side paralysis then I would say he would have a problem using the Segway as the control for turning is on the left side. Other than that I would disagree with you.

A lot with disabilities use the Segway to tootle round at a walking speed, and gain such freedom and mobility this literally changes their lives. Just using it around the house or yard is an amazing liberation for some.

I don't know if you are a Seg user, or have tried one, but if not, and you are in a position to try one out - please do.

I have a friend who recently took delivery of one. He has severe nerve damage that makes it close to impossible to get around. When he does walk, as with most of us with walking problems, it takes great effort involving much of the body in strenous side to side movements. It's exhausting. On the Segway he stands upright and moves around gracefully.

Track down a Seg and try it.

Jill

Nothing is inexplicable, merely unexplained..... Dr. Who

[jillmac]

Sunday - sorry - I didn't reply to your suggestion. I think, in theory, it is a great idea. However, with the fairly widespread misconceptions about the Segway amongst the general public, I believe most would dismiss this as 'putting dangerous machines in the hands of the disabled.'

Until the Segway is better understood generally I don't think the idea would be encouraged.

Your heart is in a great place.

Just my two cents worth.

Jill

Nothing is inexplicable, merely unexplained..... Dr. Who

[Sunday]

Thanks everyone for the replies! This litle idea will be long term project for sure, but it is good toget a feel for what folks here think about it; especially users with mobility issues.



Sunday

[albaby]

If you don't mind my making a somewhat simple observation....

I appreciate that the mobility provided by the Segway could be life-altering. But there are a wide variety of other motorized assistive devices available, and have been for years, that also serve. These are the traditional seated scooters, like the Jazzy. My father has used one for nearly a decade since the onset of a degenerative nerve disorder.

Many of these models are thousands of dollars less than the Segway, and may be more readily covered by insurance.

The Segway may be exceedingly useful for mobility-impaired individuals. But it is not the only option, and it's certainly not the cheapest. The introduction of the Segway is just one more alternative - and I can only hope that there's no one who has suffered the loss of freedom caused by mobility-impairment because they were unaware that there have long been alternatives besides the Segway.

Any charitable effort is appreciated, but you might seriously consider more conventional scooters, which can be provided to more individuals given the same level of contributions.

Albaby

[Sunday]

MMM. Generally, sit down scooters are covered under Medicare and insurance plans; so I consider that option to be already quite accessible. I am visually impaired, and there are many options available to me as well. Guide dogs, guide horse(yes! they do exist. Very cute little things too), and the traditional white stick.

But like a Segway, a guide dog is a very expensive animal to raise and train. These animals are provided free of charge to the blind personreceiving it. So, in that spirit, I thought it would be neat if an organization existed that could provide a Segway for person desiring one. After all, I can go to all sorts of places with a stick, but a dog much more useful under many more conditions. Likewise, I've heard many people comment that the Segway is more useful and graceful to use than a tradtional sit down scooter.

And like I said earlier, it's just a thought. I'm certainly not wealthy enough to do this! And I imagine it would be something that would take years to set up anyway. Looks like most folks posting here think it's a bad idea. So I guess I've learned what I wanted to by posting this question.



Sunday

[QuadSquad]

Albaby,

While what you say is essentially true anyone having a television knows that the conventional seated scooters are available and covered by virtually all insurance plans including Medicare. (I really don't know if this is really true but it's certainly what they say on the commercials) it is also true that for many people that the scooters are their only viable option for a mobility device. The question is, is it the best option. Those associated with physical therapy have long known the importance of standing. Disabilities in and of themselves are disabling. I don't want to get into a long dissertation here, but there are many people who have a disabling event in their lives which prevents them from actually walking and they become the proverbial couch potato. Many are able to stand, but it takes 30 to 40% more strength to actually walk than just to stand. So the vicious circle begins. You know the old adage, "use it, or lose it" and in the instance of those who no longer stand because they cannot walk the deterioration of the muscles, particularly in the abdomen and the legs is accelerated and this even includes bone loss. So eventually even standing becomes difficult. So for those who can stand, and for those who can find any way of affording one, the HT is a vastly superior choice to the seated scooters. I won't even go into the emotional and psychological difference between standing, and being required to sit all the time. Clearly seated scooters have their place, but if insurance would cover an HT the world would be a better place./

[jillmac]

Albaby!

Sorry but I intend staying out of a wheelchair and off a scooter as long as I possibly can!

I have used a wheelchair at times when it has been absolutely necessary. I don't like using it. I also don't like the fact that people talk over my head or talk to whomever is pushing me rather than directly to me.

On my Segway I am infinately more mobile (more maneuvarable in tight spaces and only take up the same 'footprint' as a 'normal' walking person. Additionally the world and his wife stop me to talk or just smile broadly. A much nicer experience all around.

I have a distinct fear that once I start using a wheelchair on a regular basis I may end up HAVING to use it permanently. A case of 'if you don't use it you lose it.' At least with the Segway I primarily use it instead of CAR trips and also use to to get to places where are can park it and walk.

It really is so much better for ones psche and self esteem to be able to Segway if you have the opportunity rather than use a wheelchair.

Jill

Nothing is inexplicable, merely unexplained..... Dr. Who

[RWC]

Great Thread...

I really liked Quad's comments on how disabling, generally, a particular disability can be... the escalation of overall immobility and disability. I gather that there is a downward curving slope of physical health and mobility for those with a critical disability. The curve can steepen or flatten depending on the nature of the disability combined with what the person is doing in reaction to it. Seems like the HT can help flatten the curve better than other mobility devices. This is VERY GOOD NEWS!!!!

The hurdle with the HT is price. Perhaps insurance companies could be required to cover an HT if it was shown/proven to be a "curve-flattener". Question: How can a study be done? Who would do it? Why would they do it? Who can the group turn to for the next step?

I really like the idea of getting HT's under the stance of people who cannot afford them. I think some combination of philanthropy and study project will make that happen.

The other factor is legal use of the HT both for the general public and specifically the disabled. The more the general public is restricted, the more the general IMPRESSION will be that the HT is inapropriate for anyone, including disabled people. This will self-limit disabled people's thought of it as an alternative as well as eventual coverage by insurance companies.

Another feature of restriction is aimed directly at disabled people. It has been common for public and private venues to ban Segways as long as they provide an alternative like a wheel chair. Is this Legal... locally... nationally? I think the sooner this gets cleared up, the better. This will help individuals and also the overall cause. IF it is true that (with the leverage of the ADA and local compliance officers) Segway use MUST be allowed for disabled gliders, then venues will have to allow them and the NOTION of them being banned will start to disappear at those venues. If disabled people demonstrate safe use at the local mall, then that can serve as evidence for use by others as well.

I am not disabled but could become impaired and I think I will know and care about people, besides those on this forum, who will be impaired. It is important for ME that this opportunity, THIS RIGHT, is established. I at first looked at the Segway-Disabled "issue" merely in political terms... as a way to leverage the rights of gliding for everyone. Certainly our political foes have used it as a lever and I wanted to counter it. I have been feeling a little guilty about it... and perhaps so have our foes... who knows, maybe they really believe what they say. But lately, as I talk with more disabled people (and demo'd to a guy who just lit up just standing on it for a minute... before limping off into the sunset) and read threads like this one, I'm getting closer to each person and how each person is now benefitting and how SO MANY others can as well.

Keep up the good threads and good work. Maybe contact national and local ADA people to speak up for you.. us. The HT IS something much better than ALL the rest of the devices (for those who can use it). Requiring that users must switch to an inferior device is probably NOT OK. Get the ADA to champion your/our cause... it's worthy of their support and so are we.

Lean forward, R.

"The best way to control your cow or sheep is to give them a large spacious meadow... and a Segway with all-terrain tires" - Suzuki Ralphi

[marshai]

When I went to my HT training session in NH in February, there was a gentleman there purchasing a few HTs for his family who was impressed to see how the HT greatly helped me (someone with MS) get around. He later e-mailed me to say he was trying to set up an arrangement with the MS Society (working through their Boston office) to donate some HTs for use by MS patients. The Boston MS group has been slow to act on this--they have contacted me intermittently to see about coming out to Williamstown to visit me to evaluate how useful the HT is for me and to try to come up with a profile for what type of MS patient would benefit from an HT--but they haven't managed to make the 3-hour trip yet. Perhaps other HT owners with MS might want to contact the MS Society to underscore how useful the HT has been for you--and if any of you are in the Boston area you might want to offer to have them see you in action. This might light a fire under them and get this plan going before this generous gentleman decides to put his money elsewhere! The person who has been in contact with me from the MS Society is Linda Guiod (Linda.Guiod@mam.nmss.org) --Marsha

[QuadSquad]

RWC,

I think one of the problems that will be difficult to overcome in terms of getting insurance companies to pay for HT's is LLC's stance that they are not medical devices and they don't really recommend that the disabled use them. I mean it's not as if they are vague about it they state that they are not for the disabled. I probably don't need to tell you or anyone else that insurance companies will look for any possible avenue to escape paying for anything. I don't know if LLC took this position because of their contractual obligations with J&J and the IBOT, but what ever their reasons they have created an uphill battle in terms of getting insurance to cover HT's.

In terms of ADA and the HT, I have spoken with an ADA compliance officer at the United States Department of Justice and it was her position that if the HT was a disabled person's mobility device there was absolutely nothing anyone could do to bar it. When we talked about this we talked in terms of San Francisco and while she stated that obviously it hadn't been tried in court that if I went there and got a ticket that she supposed that the opportunity would arise for them to get a decision. Obviously from my perspective the Federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco have been very supportive of the disabled causes. In short if I arrived on a HT, they can't stick me in a Jazzy scooter or a power wheelchair.

[X-man]

OK, Quadsquad.
Now do you thtink yu can post like the rest of us mortals.
You made your point, whatever that was, with the red color and bold.

X is my undergrad school.

[QuadSquad]

It's simply easier for me to read. Some books are written in fonts that are easier for those with vision impairments to read, and some not. I know that those with x-ray vision such as yourself (is that why you call yourself the X-man) can read the smaller fonts easily, but not everyone can. Obviously you're blessed without any disabilities and for that you can be thankful. And as for the fact that you did not understand my point, don't feel too bad, a lot of able-bodied people running around often don't understand issues with regard to the disabled. Just keep reading, and learning and eventually you'll get it.

[Sunday]

Quad-

Have you checked out ZoomText? That's what I use for enlarging the image on the computer. It works pretty well. If you're on a Mac, you can just press [Apple] and at the same time to activate the magnifying feature that Apple was wise enough to include:) Someday I'll have my Apple and eat it too.


Sunday

[billc]

Hi,

we're trying to "get" a Segway so tha it can be permanently available for people with disabilities to try. WE have an entire team here...Doctpr, engineer, physical therapist , occupational Therapist as well as super dooper overhead harness for safety etc.
It's a good deal to allow people to ytry it in a safe and "advisory" situation b4 they ruch out and buy one...We're giving up our time, just hope someone will give up some $ to donate a Segway.

Bill Contoyannis
Manager / Rehabilitation Engineer, REHAB Tech
Centre for Biomedical Engineering - Monash University

[jillmac]

I wrote to my local MS society but didn't get a reply. I have been thinking about writing again - just been horrendously busy lately.

Quad - I know what you mean. Over at an MS site I visit when a new person comes and posts they often type their entire symtom/doctor/tests history in one contintuous post. No paragraphs at all.

Someone always steps in and asks them to go back and edit their post adding paragraphs. Most comply fortunately. If I open a post that is solid text I just skip over it - scanning through the post and trying to keep my eyes in focus brings on a nice case of vertigo very easily.

Same with all capitals - I just cannot focus on them and have to skip posts that are in uppercase.

Jill

Nothing is inexplicable, merely unexplained..... Dr. Who

[BruceWright]

I think we have seen here is that

1. Some folks with disabilities are using Segways and are happier with them, more productive, etc, than with other standard devices.
2. Folks like them so much they're paying for them themselves.

So it stands to reason there are people out there who might fit in category 1, without being able to afford category 2.

That sounds like a job for charity.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[pt]

i might start a new thread on this...but it was proposed that a forum area for disabled / special needs would be useful so all of this stuff in one area and easy to fin, what do ya'll think?

cheers,
pt

[billc]

A agree that a Segway/mbility and disability issues forum would be a great idea.
I assume you can even move topics?!


Bill Contoyannis
Manager / Rehabilitation Engineer, REHAB Tech
Centre for Biomedical Engineering - Monash University

[pt]

billc-

yep-we can create a new one and also move topics over.

cheers,
pt

[Lazarus]

hello-
I have not been at this site lately but glad I spotted this thread. Marshal--of Williamstown--I posted the recent newspaper article about my use of the Segway and sent it to the email address you posted for the MSSociety. Hope she responds to you. My experience with the MA. MSSociety is not positive as they do seem to think the state ends at Worcester. But I hoped your post might do some good.
Linda

[QuadSquad]

quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

I think we have seen here is that

1. Some folks with disabilities are using Segways and are happier with them, more productive, etc, than with other standard devices.
2. Folks like them so much they're paying for them themselves.

So it stands to reason there are people out there who might fit in category 1, without being able to afford category 2.

That sounds like a job for charity.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream
Precisely!!!

[defenbaugh]

quote:Originally posted by pt

but it was proposed that a forum area for disabled / special needs would be useful so all of this stuff in one area and easy to fin, what do ya'll think?

cheers,
pt

pt, I think that forum would be good. I am in the health field, an avid supporter of the HT, and promote it to anyone I think it will help. Most respond they don't have the balance or whatever. This being a new technology they don't comprehend what it can do. And, not being disabled, I don't comprehend what the disabled are up against. One person I suggested a demo to made me feel really low when he suggested I had no idea what he could do and not do. I felt he could absolutely ride a Segway, but didn't force it. The new forum would help people like me (do-gooders some people would call us) understand what disabilites can be helped.

Follow your bliss,
Ron

http://www.defenbaugh.org/Segway/segway_ht.htm

[BruceWright]

A new forum would be great....

I have noticed however that other forums tend to linger long between posts. I think most SC users merely check this forum and never the other ones.

Not sure how to cure that.

But at least with a disabiled community and mobility forum, these posts will stick around longer.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[pt]

bruce-

new forums take a bit for people to check often, but once they do, usage spikes-- like the buy/sell and rental forums. we'll try it out and see what happens.

cheers,
pt

[X-man]

If you are having trouble reading coments on this site and are using Internet Explorer, please go to the tool bar and Select "View" and then from the drop down menu select "Text Size". You can adjust it larger for your situation which you will be able to see on your computer alone.
As to problems, I do have mine but which has been posted elsewhere but if you do need a color other than blue, please use black font color.

The Lone Glider! :)

[QuadSquad]

X-man,you use Cubbie Blue and I'll use Cardinal Red, now don't you have something more important to do than being a self appointed font policeman.By the way thanks for the tip!:D

[jillmac]

Any chance that you could just make this thread a 'sticky' and move all the other health related posts to it.

I am one of those who probably would not bother to hop between forums. I really enjoy all the 'normal' usage of the Segway and the tips etc. and would probably stay away from (or visit very infrequently) the 'other' forum. Also, would we be banned from making any health related posts here? Would the posts be automatically moved to the 'other' forum. If this is so challenged posters considering purchasing a Segway might lose out getting very valuable usage advice from long term able-bodied users here.

Jill

Nothing is inexplicable, merely unexplained..... Dr. Who

[pam]

Hey, Jill....
Just curious why challenged posters wouldn't read both forums? I read 4, at this point.

I know that when I first come on and open up the forums, I click on "active topics" up top, and that lets me know only the topics in all the forums that have been posted in since I last came on. I'm guessing others might not do that. Believe me, it makes the whole reading a lot easier <G>

My thoughts on your questions follow....

I guess the advantage of more than one forum would be that there could be differing topics within the individual forum - If this message was left as sticky (and how many stickies should we have is another question - typically stickys are released after a bit) you might end up with 20 or 30 pages, and not all would be of interest to all the disabled. If we had a disabled forum, the mods could go back and move all the previous topics that were specifically about the disabled (Have disabled in the topic title) into that forum, and they wouldn't be "lost" - as time moves on, and conversation ends on a topic, those forum threads do tend to drop off. To find them now means you have to use the search engine.

Now,that doesn't mean that we'd expect that the disabled ONLY use that forum, I would assume that there is other useful non-disabled related information that might show up in the main forum, but it would concentrate that type of information into one area so that it is more readily accessible by those who would find it particularly useful.

And yes, if we had a forum that focused on topics related to use of the segway for disabled riders, I'm pretty sure that topics would move over, if started here - simply to keep it more accessible for those who are particularly interested in that information.

Pam

[Lazarus]

Jill, I thought your idea was a good fit. Even so, why not just leave hings as they are? Those not interested in disabled issues simply don't read the thread which is clearly identified by title.

I read all posts and learn a lot. I would not hop between forums (too many figs and beans to pick. This farm is producing too much!)


Also, I have directed people here who are disabled and considering a Segway purchase. I like seeing the disability posts intermixed with the gadget posts and legal posts and experience posts. It is nice to be disabled and also Segway adventurers!

Linda

[wheels]

[/quote]
One person I suggested a demo to made me feel really low when he suggested I had no idea what he could do and not do. I felt he could absolutely ride a Segway, but didn't force it.

Follow your bliss,
Ron

http://www.defenbaugh.org/Segway/segway_ht.htm
[/quote]

Ron;
I respect your compassion !
I offer this suggestion: With a smile remind the person that as you cannot truly not know what he/she cannot do, They equally do not know what the Segway can/cannot do. They also do not totally know what they themself can/cannot do if they don't take you up on your offer.
Don't tell me you don't like asparagus if you have never tasted it.

If you have diligently tried to no avail, continue life with a clear conscience.

"Life's a wheelie when you're on a Segway"

[fredkap]

I'm going to weigh in with Lazarus. The disabled have to use a separate entrance way too often, they are first class equal participants here.

Question: As all of us have seen, some individuals oscillate when they first get on a Seg. I steady my Seg and try to get people "balanced" before I let go of the handle. With a disabled person, I want to completely eliminate any of the wobbles as that will permanently scare off a good candidate. What do others do to make it easier for a challenged person to have a great experience their first time on a Seg?

Fred

[wheels]

quote:Originally posted by fredkap


Question: As all of us have seen, some individuals oscillate when they first get on a Seg. I steady my Seg and try to get people "balanced" before I let go of the handle. With a disabled person, I want to completely eliminate any of the wobbles as that will permanently scare off a good candidate. What do others do to make it easier for a challenged person to have a great experience their first time on a Seg?

Fred


I USE ONLY THE 2MPH KEY FOR DEMOS ! !

1: I point out the moving bar and smily face of the balance mode (Eliminates the green not showing in daylight.
2: Have them get on one step at a time while I have a firm hand on the handlebar).
3: Through the feedback to my hand I have them adjust their feet to approx. balance fore & aft.
4: Have them look at ME and NOT down. While doing this they are focusing on me and not their balance. If they are standing steady, I remove my hand but still have it close to the shaft and point out that they are in balance and in control.
5: Point out that the Segway 'Checks' and 'Corrects' 100 times a second for balance. They cannot improve on that.
6: If all is going well, I lower my hand to immediatly below the handlebar to the top of the shaft and point out 'How well they are doing'.
7: If there is pronounced shaft wobble, I instruct them to hold their elbows tight against their sides. There cannot be a shaft oscillation if their elbows are firmly against their sides. This action forces the distance between the person and the shaft to not vary because the body cannot move as fast as the shaft.
8 Etc etc.

"Life's a wheelie when you're on a Segway"

[pam]

quote:Originally posted by fredkap

I'm going to weigh in with Lazarus. The disabled have to use a separate entrance way too often, they are first class equal participants here.

Question: As all of us have seen, some individuals oscillate when they first get on a Seg. I steady my Seg and try to get people "balanced" before I let go of the handle. With a disabled person, I want to completely eliminate any of the wobbles as that will permanently scare off a good candidate. What do others do to make it easier for a challenged person to have a great experience their first time on a Seg?

Fred


Goodness, Fred, whatever caused you to think that having their own special forum was anything other than offering them something above and beyond what the rest of us have? - an ability to keep their disability related posts in one area to refer to. That said, I have no problem with the disability posts remaining in this forum. I read it all. Well, that's not true. There are things I don't read through, but do check for formatting.
Pam

[pt]

fred (and all)-

having a forum with the special needs related posts was an request as per suggestion(s) by people who were having a hard time finding specific posts in the main forum. we try to accomodate any and all requests we can.

to me having those in place would be great so we can have a library of types of users, needs, experiences, etc...in the main forum, they'll simply go away every 24 hours or so off the main page.

that doesn't mean that the main forum won't have any type of special needs discussions, i personally think the new forum would be more a library of past posts and new ones as well.

just like the rental forum, the buy and sell forum, etc...

at some point we're likely to have a lot of new forums as our numbers increase.

-i series
-e series
-p series
-maitenance
-rentals
-buy and sell
-gov / local issues

that's part of what happens in online communities. if this were a music site, we'd need to have genres and artists.

what do ya'll think?

cheers,
pt

[QuadSquad]

Personally, I think that having issues with regard to the disabled in one place would be very helpful. I personally would not feel like I was being segregated unfairly or have my feelings hurt. My main interest are those topics which relate to people with disabilities and issues which might affect them. It's not that I don't care about the rest of you, I do (look I've even changed the color of my font) but this group is very diverse and sometimes it's difficult to keep up. For those that don't check in on a regular basis, they might find it difficult or impossible to find issues that they're interested in.

I think having a disability forum would be terrific!

[LarryL]

I am currently working with an 18 year old guy here in Spokane who has Spinabifita (spelling is wrong) who sits in a wheelchair all day. He can't walk more than a few feet before having to sit down because it is so hard on him to walk. We took one of our HT's to his Physical Therapist and had him try it with all the teams that work with him and he did really well. He was not able to go to his own graduation because he couldn't get up to the stage from the seating area. He could have on the HT. We are also trying to go through Starlight Foundation to get him one. The problem is that since the HT is not approved as a medical device there is no insurance company that will pay for it and they Starlight can't help due to the liability problems if they do and he gets hurt. We are trying to help raise money for him to get one.

Just thought I would put this in that it is a good thing for disabled people, but it needs to be approved as a medical device before many companies will approve it.

OH, they also contacted Segway direct and were turned down for the same reason.


Larry

[QuadSquad]

quote:Originally posted by LarryL

I am currently working with an 18 year old guy here in Spokane who has Spinabifita (spelling is wrong) who sits in a wheelchair all day. He can't walk more than a few feet before having to sit down because it is so hard on him to walk. We took one of our HT's to his Physical Therapist and had him try it with all the teams that work with him and he did really well. He was not able to go to his own graduation because he couldn't get up to the stage from the seating area. He could have on the HT. We are also trying to go through Starlight Foundation to get him one. The problem is that since the HT is not approved as a medical device there is no insurance company that will pay for it and they Starlight can't help due to the liability problems if they do and he gets hurt. We are trying to help raise money for him to get one.

Just thought I would put this in that it is a good thing for disabled people, but it needs to be approved as a medical device before many companies will approve it.

OH, they also contacted Segway direct and were turned down for the same reason.


Larry
Larry,

I think that's terrific, please set up an account and post the address for donations on this site and I'll be the first to donate $100 to buy this kid a Segway HT,

Pam and I would be happy to contribute and I'll bet there's others on this site that would as well.

[pt]

quadsquad-

i was able to chat with laz via email, we'll have a forum set up soon that has the past posts in one place, we'll see how it goes.

cheers,
pt

[Lazarus]

Just wanted to publically thank those trying to find a solution that works. Thanks!
Linda

[billc]

Great stuff pt.

I think there's plenty of us here happy to help out and go either way in terms of archiving discussiona under separate forums or whatever!

Keep us in touch!



Bill Contoyannis
Manager / Rehabilitation Engineer, REHAB Tech
Centre for Biomedical Engineering - Monash University

[BruceWright]

Larry L, any follow-up on this?

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[jrmiller]

Hello to all, I'm a little late in getting to this site, but here is my 2 cents worth. If you are disabled/handicapped and think an HT would work ..... try it. I have Parkinsons Disease and balance and tremors are a problem. With no one on this site having expereience with Parkinsons and an HT, I was on my own so..... I tried it and it worked out great for me. It may not be a help for all, but for those that it has helped it is a blessing for many reasons already stated. Unseen and untold is also unsold! I do what I can on my outings to promote the Parkinsons aspect to all that will listen and the responsse has beeen wondereful and enlightening for those whom it might help. SEG ON and SEG RIGHT Thankns JR

[Virus]

As a long time sufferer of Chronic Low Back Pain, I've been looking into getting on of these devices, but they are expensive, and not an item that is coverable by insurance at this time. In the past few years, I've had my lumbar area fused and "bolted" together, and the next step is for them to bolt my hips together as well. The pain I experience from just a normal little (5 minute) walk around the neighborhood is pretty excruciating, not to mention something like a 30 minute walk through the park or downtown.

I have kept up with the chat logs and find that they are a Godsend to the people with disabilities that use them. I would once again be able to go for walks with my children; who range between 12 and 5, maybe to the park or down the beach, or just around the neighborhood.

I've had Insurance try to assist me with one of the scooter chairs, but part of my problem is sitting. Walking and sitting are the things that hurt. I can be on my feet for longer times than I can tolerate sitting, as long as I'm not walking. So the whole scooter/wheelchair thing is out. Bicycles are a pain in the backside also, so I can't even enjoy a nice ride with my kids.

My only issue is what types of places are you banned from with them. Obviously locations that are Private Property, such as Theme Parks and such can have their own rules, but if they are being used for medical purposes of mobility instead of someone just "joyriding" around, is there a difference? Probably not until the insurance companies decide to cover them. You obviously wouldn't want to use one in an environment that is crouded with walkers anyway, since it's a trip hazard for you, as well as them.

Not sure what my question is, but have you begun a list of the types/names of places that you have been banned from?

I can't see Walmart letting a Segway in, since they do provide both wheelchairs and mobility chairs at the front. That way they are covered. "You can't ride that thing in here, take what we provide"

But then again, maybe they do.



Strangers have the best candy

[Earthquake]

I am new to this board so please excuse any ignorance to previous posts.

I am in much the same shape as Virus. I do not have any fusions as there is too much damage to my lower back (T10-S1). I do however have a prescription from my back surgeon now. It did take some convincing and I did have to educate him on the purpose and use.

I have not been able to walk for more than a few yards since my first surgery, several years ago. I have undergone several surgeries since and still have the same limitations.

Has anyone attempted to have an insurance company pay for a Segway when their doctor has prescribed one ?

Thanx in advance for your reply.

[Murray Fisher]

RE comments about Walmart. I have had no problem there at all. This is a small town (30K) and I think people are more tolerant than in a big city maybe...however our WalMart is a HUGE store. It is about five miles out in the country. I take my Seg on the carrier I have for the back of the car and can unload it in seconds....go from a distant parking area to the store, right in the doors....everyone smiles at me and gives me a thumbs up.....from the clerks to the manager. I move slowly all the time and give way to people walking, every chance I get. I have had my Seg for almost 6 months now and have gone into drug stores right up to the shelves and checkout stands. I have shopped with my wife in grocery stores, done my banking at a couple banks....into restaurants, and the two big malls we have here......My wife says I am just daring someone to give me a bad time, but so far it has been great. I am very aware that others have been kicked out of private places and I fully expect to one of these days but zilch so far!! BTW, my car hitch carrier is worth its weight in gold as I often don't want to travel even three or four miles to a store.

Murray Fisher

[ions82]

I spend most of my time in a wheelchair. I have a low-level spinal cord injury and only have partial use of my legs. I can stand for extended periods of time (2+ hrs.) but cannot walk and have very poor balance. I can get around on crutches, but it is very slow and hard on my back. I tried a Segway on a recent trip to NYC. I am planning on buying one as soon as the battery/range situation improves. If it were to be approved as a medical device, the price would double. In addition, I'll bet most ins. companies would be very hesitant to pay for one. It would also be a long, arduous process. There's no way I'm going to wait around to see if it will ever be covered. As pretty much any owner will tell you, the Segway is worth every bit that it costs. In just the short time I was on one, I knew that it would be a huge asset to my everyday life. I'll second what jrmiller said about trying one. Do it. You won't regret it. I had a feeling it would work well for me. It does. VERY well. I recommend a demo to every person with mobility issues.

[billc]

ions83 ...cpuldn't agree more with your commnets.
We ideally would like to establsih a "trial" centre so that clients with issues could use the device AND get advice on their particular issues. This also maintains an arms length for the distributotrs as they can't then be accused of recommending it as a disability device...they will just be selling to a well informed customer!

Bill Contoyannis
Manager / Rehabilitation Engineer, REHAB Tech
Centre for Biomedical Engineering - Monash University

[Sunday]

To all concerned-

Since the Segway is not a medical device, I doubt a prescription will carry any weight. It can be considered assistive technology, which means you may be able to approach your Voc Rehab agency and have them buy you one. Moreover; Social Security has a program called Plan for Achieving Self Sufficiency. Or PASS. You will need to contact your local Social Security rep for more information. Essentially, they set aside some of your benefits each month for you to purchase items that you can use to become more self sufficient. You'll need to put the plan in writing, and develop a timeline for getting it. Many social security folks have never heard of it, so you may have to do some reserach and educate them on it, as I did when I obtained one years ago.

I have also written a letter to the Postmaster General to inquire into the surplus HT's they have. They purchased around 800 for evalutaion, but have decided that the HT will not result in any appreciable increase in productivity. So I asked for a donation of ten HT's to distribute under the organization name of Segways for Independence. If all goes well, I will be posting the requirements for application. A friend of mine is a former CFO for many national non-profits, and I will ask her to help me organize this. But of course, this all hinges on the USPS donating a few HT's, or me winning the lottery:)


Sunday

Segway-more fun than you can stand!

[Sunday]

And you may also consider a loan from your state assistive technology foundation. Utah for instance, has a 0% loan with periods of up to 5 years to repay. That may be an avenue to pursue. Digital Credit Union has a mobility loan program with rates starting at around 5% and up to 72 months if I recall correctly. That's not a bad deal either!



Segway-more fun than you can stand!

[ions82]

Wow. That is VERY admirable. I have a disability (spinal cord injury) along with limited income (which is the case for MANY others). I KNOW the Segway will be a great improvement to my everyday life. If I could be of ANY help to you, just let me know.

[Sunday]

I urge those who can, to pursue these avenues. Use the resources available. Contact your voc rehab counselors. Contact Social Security. Contact your Assistive technology loan programs. Obtain a Segway, and prove to everyone that you can use it to improve your life. As more and more owners with disabilities utilize the technology, it will be easier for others to show the practicality of it.

I'll keep everyone updated on my progress with the Postmaster General, and setting up Segways for Independence.


Sunday

Segway-more fun than you can stand!

[billc]

To the best of our knowledge...75% of the Segways in use in Australia are used by and for people with mobility issues. (all self funded)

Mind you that's 3 out of 4....BUT still significant as it shows who has the greatest motivation!


Bill Contoyannis
Manager / Rehabilitation Engineer, REHAB Tech
Centre for Biomedical Engineering - Monash University

[Sunday]

Be sure to document the progress of the owners with mobility issues. It could be useful in convincing an agency to fund one. My state program wants a Doctor's note indicating that it would be safe for me to operate one. Which is very reasonable.


Sunday

Segway-more fun than you can stand!

[jrmiller]

Hurrah to all, I will ditto most of the comments, but I think it all boils down to a demo. Aswith me, a demo was all that I neededto make a decsion. Best of luck to all. JR

[jrmiller]

Greetings to all, The issue as to where you are not able to go has not reared it's head to me. I have not been refused access anywhere I have gone: K-mart, Wall mMart, Universal Studio theme park Fl,grocery stores, malls, etc.. If you are using the HT as a mobility devise, have a copy of your disabled sticker made and velcro it to the front of the cs. That will head-off a lot of inquiries as to the intended use. Again, try it you'll like it. Also, there are those of us on limited incomes, I had no financial help but have absolutely NO regrets making the purchase, the return I am getting as to my life, self worth and moral more than offset the costs. If there are any question, feel free to contact me via the chat e-mail. SEG-ON SEG-RIGHT :>) JR

[billc]

Great to hear...

Bill Contoyannis
Manager / Rehabilitation Engineer, REHAB Tech
Centre for Biomedical Engineering - Monash University

[Sunday]

I received an email today from the usps, informing me that they will consider my request for them to donate their unused Segways. How cool is that?! Now I get to see if I can organize Segwas for Independence, and run it under another organization. That's the cheapest way to get it going.

They said they would notify me by mail of their decision.

I have also invited my contact at the USPS to come here and read the posts made by those using the HT for assistance. It is my hope that your stories will contribute to them reaching a favorable decision on this matter.


Mark Sunday

Segway-more fun than you can stand!