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charmed
09-04-2002, 03:50 PM
http://www.governing.com/archive/2002/sep/glimpses.txt


Segway Rolls

As Amazing As The Device Itself Is The Lobbying Effort Behind It.

Even In An Age Of High-Tech Hype, The Segway Human Transporter Stands
Out. The Launch Of The Device, Which Its Makers Insist Shouldn't Be
Called A Motorized Scooter, Was A Nationally Televised Event Last
December. The Segway Quickly Became A Darling Of The Business And
Trend-Spotting Media And Thousands Of People Have Attempted To "Line
Up" To Buy A Segway Through The Company's Web Site, Even Though The
Product Won't Be Available To The Public Until Sometime Next Year.
Nowhere Has Segway's Success Been As Tangible, However, As In State
Capitals. Until Recently, All But Three States Banned Motorized
Vehicles From Sidewalks, But Legislation To Allow Segways On Sidewalks
Had Become Law In More Than 30 States By Summer's End And Was Moving
Forward In Virtually All The Remaining States.
It Has Been A Remarkable Lobbying Achievement, Especially For A New
Company. Most Attempts To Pass Uniform State Laws Move In Slow Spurts,
With A Few States Taking Up An Issue During Any Given Session. The
Federal Centers For Disease Control And Prevention, For Instance,
Crafted Model Legislation For States To Strengthen Their Public Health
Response To Terrorist Attacks And Other Major Emergencies. By July,
However, That Bill Had Been Introduced In Only 19 States And Enacted
In Just Six.
The 69-Pound Segway Allows A Person To Stand Upright And Travel At
Speeds Up To 12 Miles Per Hour. It's 29 Inches Across--No Wider Than
An Average Adult--And Its Combination Of Five Gyroscopes And 10 On-
Board Computers Allow The Rider To Maintain Balance And Control Its
Movements Simply By Leaning. So Far, Serious Use Of The Machines Has
Been Limited To Places Such As Warehouses, Post Offices And Police
Departments.
Segway Llc, Based In New Hampshire, Refuses To Say What It's Spent On
Its Lobbying Campaign, But A Million Dollars Would Be A Conservative
Estimate. The Company Hired Some Of The Top Lobbying Firms In Nearly
Every State And Its Representatives Brought The Machine To State
Capitols, Letting Legislators Take Them For Test Drives Around The
Rotunda. Legislators, In Turn, Expressed Hope That Segways Might
Alleviate All Kinds Of Problems, Such As Cutting Down On Air
Pollution, Revitalizing Downtowns And Providing Accessible
Transportation To The Elderly And Handicapped. In The End, It Seems,
It Was The Dazzling Product Itself That Swayed Legislators. "We're
Going To Have To Outlaw It Unless I Can Ride It," Said Wisconsin State
Representative Dan Schooff, Anxiously Awaiting His Turn In Madison.
According To Matt Dailida, Segway's Manager Of State Government
Affairs, The Fact That The Company's Legislation Passed So Rapidly Was
Simply A Matter Of Short Legislative Sessions. Safety Advocates,
Though, Complain That It Often Came Up Late And Was Usually Pushed
Through With Minimal Hearings Or Testimony. Even People Who Track
Transportation Bills For A Living Say They Were Slow To Catch On To
The Segway Blitzkrieg, Their Own Reading Or Databases Failing To Red-
Flag Legislation Referring To An "Electric Personal Assistive Mobility
Device."
Dailida Says That A Segway Traveling 9 M.P.H. Can Come To A Stop
Within 4 Feet And That A Series Of Safety Tests Will Be Carried Out
Before The Product Will Be Released To Consumers. For The Most Part,
Legislators Were Convinced By Such Company Claims, As Well As Their
Own Comfort Level From Riding The Thing. They Didn't Demand Hard Data
About Reaction Times Or Results Of Crash Test Dummies Taking Blind
Turns. "I've Actually Ridden On One And Can Assure Anyone Of The
Safety Of Them," Says Pennsylvania State Senator Jake Corman. "You
Can't Even Fall Off This Thing, And If You Bump Into Something, It
Stops."
Yet Even If The Rider Is Safe, Advocates For Pedestrians, Children
And The Blind Worry That Bystanders May Get Injured. "There's Not An
Engineer Out There That Would Consider Taking A Quick Joyride Around
The Room An Adequate Test Of Any Motorized Device," Says Gary Smith, A
Safety Expert At Children's Hospital In Columbus, Ohio. In Several
States, Opponents Managed To Amend Bills To Allow Localities To
Regulate Segways, To Impose Age Restrictions Or To Require That
Teenage Riders Wear Helmets. Safety Concerns Raised By The Elderly Put
The Bill On Hold In The California Senate In August.
The Segway Juggernaut, However, For The Most Part Continues To Roll
On Smoothly. Many Legislators Compare Its Critics To Luddites In The
Old Days Who Wanted To Ban Cars Because They Scared The Horses. "If I
Were The One Walking The Street," Says Illinois State Representative
Dan Burke, "I'd Rather Be Hit In The *** By This Device Than By A
Bike."
--Alan Greenblatt




Casey
09-04-2002, 04:08 PM
quote: "There's Not An
Engineer Out There That Would Consider Taking A Quick Joyride Around
The Room An Adequate Test Of Any Motorized Device,"

That may be true of engineers, but millions of people buy and operate 4-wheel ATV's and low horsepower motorscooters that require no license, without even that much acquaintance time. And yes, many get hurt. They changed from three to four wheels on those ATV's because it was very easy to turn over. This is where Segway has a tremendous advantage. Being self balanced, unless it is simply pushed to the point of loosing contact with the ground, it won't tip over. I'm not saying you can't take a fall off a Segway. You can do that with any vehicle, motorized or not.

Frank

charmed
09-04-2002, 04:45 PM
"Dailida Says That A Segway Traveling 9 M.P.H. Can Come To A Stop
Within 4 Feet And That A Series Of Safety Tests Will Be Carried Out
Before The Product Will Be Released To Consumers. For The Most Part,
Legislators Were Convinced By Such Company Claims, As Well As Their
Own Comfort Level From Riding The Thing. They Didn't Demand Hard Data
About Reaction Times Or Results Of Crash Test Dummies Taking Blind
Turns. "I've Actually Ridden On One And Can Assure Anyone Of The
Safety Of Them," Says Pennsylvania State Senator Jake Corman. "You
Can't Even Fall Off This Thing, And If You Bump Into Something, It
Stops."

Sounds reasonable to me.

n/a
09-04-2002, 06:11 PM
quote:"If I
Were The One Walking The Street," Says Illinois State Representative
Dan Burke, "I'd Rather Be Hit In The *** By This Device Than By A
Bike."

That was a rather clear statement.

Seeker
09-04-2002, 06:33 PM
This article brings up an important point. While Segway sales have not been outstanding to this point, their lobbying achievements have been. As far as positioning themselves for long term profits, I would say that good lobbying is probably more important at this stage in the game, than brisk sales are (especially considering that sales thus far have been to trial groups, rather than to the public at large).

I'm interested to know why Dan Burke made the statement about preferring to get hit with a Segway, rather than with a bike.

Seeker

charmed
09-04-2002, 06:53 PM
I sometimes imagine that the legislation is SO important that there may well be sales news that is being purposely kept under wraps so as not to further agitate the opposition. By all appearences Segway seems off to a slow start, and will be a very gradual presence on US sidewalks. This might be part of the short-term plan.

Casey
09-04-2002, 06:57 PM
quote:I'm interested to know why Dan Burke made the statement about preferring to get hit with a Segway, rather than with a bike.


I may be thinking diferrently than he was, but I understand what he is saying. The front of a Segway is large and broad, while the front end of a bicycle is very narrow and capable of running between the legs. There are also exposed axle ends, as well as brake cables etc on a bike.

Add to that the fact that a Segway will stop and reverse upon hitting, in a manner described the other day as being able to stop it with an outstretched hand, and it looks to me as if being bumped by a Segway would be a far less traumatic experience.

Frank

Seeker
09-04-2002, 07:10 PM
When you think about it, Segway's approach so far to introducing their device to people, involves an assistant who walks beside you, and makes sure that you know how to use the device properly, before setting you free to boot around on it. This type of approach could not be used once the masses get their hands on consumer version Segs, so it suggests that for the time being Segway is wanting to cautious and take things slowly, including sales.

Their general approach in introducing/selling the Segway is similar to what we see happening with the Ibot. As far as I know they are not available to the public quite yet, but are in a later stage of trials.

Seeker

Seeker
09-04-2002, 07:20 PM
Hi Casey,

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this idea that the Segway can be stopped with an outstretched hand.

If it had a large amount of momentum,shouldn't this require a substanstial force, in order to stop it? Am I right in thinking that the motors start running in reverse when you encounter an obstacle ? Is this the way that a Segway achieves braking, or is this something that's separate from the braking system of the Segway ?

Seeker

yop
09-04-2002, 07:40 PM
When the Segway hits your outstretched hand, it starts to tilt backwards (the shaft and rider are slowed, the wheels keep going). The DS system registers this as a lean backwards and runs the motors in reverse. With 4 horsepower, those motors can do a lot to minimize the effect of a crash.

charmed
09-04-2002, 07:45 PM
"If it had a large amount of momentum,shouldn't this require a substanstial force, in
order to stop it?"

The post and handlebar set-up affords a considerable amount of leverage in tilting the Segway back on its heels. Somewhere it was posted that the handlebars lead going forward, and therefore are the first to make impact in a collision, immediately initiating reverse.

In a collision with a bike, the 'victim' has no access to the bike's brakes.

Still, at 9 or 12 mph. you got to wonder...sure wish someone with access to one of the babies could weigh in on our imaginings.

Casey
09-04-2002, 08:14 PM
This DS business is so new and foreign in a vehicle, that our minds just aren't accustomed to the way it works.

In addition to the action of the Segway itself upon hitting that outstretched hand, you have to add in the riders reaction. That is what makes Segway so unique. It does what the rider thinks by reacting to the riders reaction to an impending impact.

I can see if a rider WANTED to run someone over, he would simply lean further into the handlebar as he hit, and overcome the normal tendancy of Segway to reverse. His weight would overcome the force of the outstretched hand. But if someone is intent on running over you, it won't make any diference what machine he is on, you're going to get run over.

Thankfully most people aren't out to run over pedestrians. So the combination of the Segway's and rider's reactions should go a long way toward minimizing your injury.

Frank

Seeker
09-04-2002, 08:29 PM
If we assumed that in most instances where a collision between a Segway and a pedestrian occurs, that the Segway rider was already slowing down

( ie either the rider saw the pedestrian suddenly and the startle reflex has just kicked in...and this reflex has initiated Segway's braking... or the rider saw the pedestrian and had been in the process of slowing down, but was still moving too fast to avoid a collision)

...in these instances, where the rider has already been slowing down, would the 'impact sets off reverse motors mechanism' add to the amount of slowing down that can be achieved ?

Seeker

Seeker
09-04-2002, 08:33 PM
Thanks Casey,

Looks like you and I were typing in posts at about the same time. Your post addresses some of the questions that I had.

Seeker

Casey
09-04-2002, 08:37 PM
Don't get me wrong, I have not ridden a Segway, so I have to go by what I have read, seen and what I see in my minds eye.

I think what you are getting at is that the rider has already caused the Segway to heel back to some extent. Even at that he would still have the panic reaction, unless he did not see the impact coming. That being the case, I think you are right in assuming the impact itself might not have as much effect in stopping the Segway. OTOH, it has already been slowed by the rider, so the results might well be similar.

Frank