Flying With A Segway

[GregRice]

Question for those of us who travel (fly) with our P133 Segways. Has anybody that does, flown since all the publicity about the Swegways catching fire? Seems Russell Crowe doesn’t keep up with what’s going on with the lithium batteries and the airlines banning them on planes. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/29/actor-russell-crowe-amuses-twitter-after-virgin-australia-bans-his-segway.html . I haven’t had to fly since this started but I’ve flown for years with my P series for years now with little to no problems with the airlines. If you’ve flown in the last 4 to 6 weeks let me know what your experience has been. Thanks!

[Civicsman]

I haven't flown, ever, with a Seg, but P133's have nickel metal hydride batteries, not lithium.

Whatever you had to do in the past to convince the airlines that your machine doesn't have lithium batteries will likely still work. You could call the airline(s) of interest to check their policies. Each airline could be different.

[GregRice]

I've never had much of any problem flying with my Segways in the past. I've only had a few agents ask about the batteries. When they have I just told them they are nickel metal batteries and they never asked for any documentation. I asked the question now because of all the publicity surrounding the Swagways catching on fire.

[rotorblades]

Question for those of us who travel (fly) with our P133 Segways. Has anybody that does, flown since all the publicity about the Swegways catching fire? Seems Russell Crowe doesn’t keep up with what’s going on with the lithium batteries and the airlines banning them on planes. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/29/actor-russell-crowe-amuses-twitter-after-virgin-australia-bans-his-segway.html . I haven’t had to fly since this started but I’ve flown for years with my P series for years now with little to no problems with the airlines. If you’ve flown in the last 4 to 6 weeks let me know what your experience has been. Thanks!
i was turned away by united last year so i went by cruise ship it was fun even in 16ft swells

[Civicsman]

i was turned away by united last year ...

You have a P133 and you were turned away?

Or, you have a newer model with lithium ion batteries, which no passenger airline knowingly allows to fly?

[rotorblades]

You have a P133 and you were turned away?

Or, you have a newer model with lithium ion batteries, which no passenger airline knowingly allows to fly?
sorry i should have been more specific i do have lithiums the FAAy is the one that says no im told

[Nano-Oil.com]

Hello, I am new here and landed here because I was researching the rules on the Real Segways with Lithium/ so I will post here a statement and request that I just made to Dan Wood at www.IATA.org
here it is unedited (I hope it is OK):
Hello Mister Good

I am ADA and have to fly 7 days after a double hernia surgery starting June 2nd 2016.

Is a real US made Segway HT80 allowed,
I have traveled by Airlines, mainly Southwest since 2004 with my Segway with no problems what so ever,
Only last week in San Diego, a last minute double check brought me out of TSA check, back to Southwest counter where the manager was called in and went on his computer which brought up the file including pictures of battery for identification,
I did clear the inspection but I do not know if it was by oversight on his part or not, I would love to have been able to read the verbiage and have seen the pictures but I was so late by then that I almost missed the flight,
Is there any way that I can have access to the guideline file
I am ADA flying 7 days after double hernia surgery , OAK to ATL with Southwest then jump on Air France to CDG then back to ATL via Delta then back to OAK with Southwest all within a month.
Any comments or advice will be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

---
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Quick Links: www.Nano-Oil.com/Products.html www.Nano-Oil.com/HappyCustomers.html www.Nano-Oil.com/Applications.html

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[Gimpy guy]

Hello, I am new here and landed here because I was researching the rules on the Real Segways with Lithium/ so I will post here a statement and request that I just made to Dan Wood at www.IATA.org
here it is unedited (I hope it is OK):
Hello Mister Good

I am ADA and have to fly 7 days after a double hernia surgery starting June 2nd 2016.

Is a real US made Segway HT80 allowed,
I have traveled by Airlines, mainly Southwest since 2004 with my Segway with no problems what so ever,
Only last week in San Diego, a last minute double check brought me out of TSA check, back to Southwest counter where the manager was called in and went on his computer which brought up the file including pictures of battery for identification,
I did clear the inspection but I do not know if it was by oversight on his part or not, I would love to have been able to read the verbiage and have seen the pictures but I was so late by then that I almost missed the flight,
Is there any way that I can have access to the guideline file
I am ADA flying 7 days after double hernia surgery , OAK to ATL with Southwest then jump on Air France to CDG then back to ATL via Delta then back to OAK with Southwest all within a month.
Any comments or advice will be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

---
Best Regards, Christian StClaire 707 235-4029 eMail: [email protected] www.Nano-Oil.com
Quick Links: www.Nano-Oil.com/Products.html www.Nano-Oil.com/HappyCustomers.html www.Nano-Oil.com/Applications.html

GSA contract # GS-07F-0825N
- Defense Logistics/DIBBS - GSA - DoD eMall - GSA Advantage - AAFES Online Mall
- BSC’s (Base Supply Stores) - NATO & UN Procurement

Just a few things.

You have said a few times that you are "ADA". The ADA is a law not a description of a person. You would be a American with a disability.

When it comes to the airlines it's not the ADA that dictates policy it's the ACAA, Air Carriers access Act. The ADA is a moot point once your at the gate.

If you flew with Ninh batts southwest was correct to allow them. If they were lions they were in error and you could be liable for flying with Lions.

I've found that exact info is important when emailing people. Like is the mans name Wood or Good ? The Segway you mention doesn't exist. It would be an I180 not an HT80 and where it's made is of no matter.

Know the laws that protect your rights, and what laws are applicable to the situation.
Also be aware of those there to mitigate issues, such as a CRO.

[segrick-ATL]

Just spent an hour putting together a reply - bam - gong. I'll try again later. But, I'll leave with this'

LithiumSegs can fly.
http://forums.segwaychat.org/showthread.php?t=33527
You can get the feel from that and search other thread about hat time. I caught hell for saying that were OK - in some caxes-
Read - I'll post after sleep

[JW Hunter]

This issue is far from resolved. There is no question that for a time Southwest Airlines and one or two others were allowing Segways with lithium-ion batteries to be transported.

it seems that after the hover board fiasco that all changed. Southwest Airlines at some point reversed the policy and did not allow Segways With lithium-ion batteries to be transported, claiming the watt hour in the batteries was too high.

Perhaps they have once again changed that policy but I can't confirm that.

What is true is that the IATA is not a regulatory agency but rather a trade association. However even under their guidance there is no requirement to transport but rather the option is given to each individual airline and to the pilot in command.

Of course this creates an issue in that you may be able to travel on one leg of a trip but find that you will be denied on another. Very challenging for a person with a disability.

[segrick-ATL]

I give up. Just call your airline and ask what their policy is for traveling with a Segway for mobility needs. I have made 6 trips in the last 2 years and always ride my seg to the gate or aircraft door. Its documented, on purpose and within the FAA and other industry regs. It's on the jetway at the door of the aircraft when I deplane. If you knowingly misrepresent your disability, not right. The airlines want people with disabilities to travel- with whatever they need to make it an enjoyable experience. That's the incentive.
Read the posts from Quadsquad and MTObattery on the subject- then go travel like the rest of us.

[rotorblades]

[QUOTE=Civicsman;238703]You have a P133 and you were turned away?

Or, you have a newer model with lithium ion batteries, which no passenger airline knowingly allows to fly?[/QUOTE ]i was talking about my x2 with lithium
is there any segs like x2s that dont have lithium s?im so tired of the hastles i gotta buy something else but no more wheelchairs

[therealzam]

Since SWA has been the most frequent airline mentioned, I thought I'd verify their current policy.

As of the date of this post, their policy RE Lithium battery powered devices is thus:
If your wheelchair/scooter is powered by a lithium-ion (Li-ion) battery, Southwest must be able to access the battery to determine that it is approved for transportation. The Li-ion battery must show no signs of any defects or damage. Your assistive device must be transported as checked baggage. If the Li-ion battery is securely attached and protected from short-circuit by being fully enclosed in the device’s battery housing, the battery may remain installed and there is no limit to battery size on these types of devices. If not, the battery must be removed and transported separately as checked baggage.

Here's my source: https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/unique-travel-needs/customers-with-disabilities-pol.html
Once there, click on the "Wheelchairs and Other Devices" section and check the "Lithium-Ion (Li-ion) Batteries" subsection.

I'd suggest you contact the airline for pre-approval before you fly. I'd also suggest you fill in the Wheelchair / Scooter information form in advance using guidance offered when you call for pre-approval. A doctor's note can't hurt.

Finally, if you intend to travel using a NineBot, I'd suggest you bring proof of UL2272 compliance.

[therealzam]

Delta's policy is in line with SWA.

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/special-travel-needs/disabilities.html

There is currently no limit on a self-contained Lithium Ion battery in a mobility device.

[rotorblades]

what are the chances of driving to mexico city or? then flying to philippines with 2 lithium x2 segways?

[dgbint]

what are the chances of driving to mexico city or? then flying to philippines with 2 lithium x2 segways?

It is simply illegal.

It is simply illegal to transport Lithium batteries ( over a small threshold size ) on a passenger aircraft.

If you are comfortable breaking the law, you will probably get away with, but then again, maybe not.
What would you do if 'they' seized you Segway and/or your batteries ?

What are Philippines jails like ?
I hear they are better now than they used to be.
There's few drug addicts / dealers now in jail, they are all being executed.
Not everywhere is like the USA.

You are a grown up.
You have heard the info many times.
Nevertheless the choice is yours.

[rotorblades]

[QUOTE=dgbint;240244]It is simply illegal.
i dontbelieve its illegal the faa certainly has said no but they dont control mexican airspace as far as im aware nor philippine airspace

[dgbint]

[QUOTE=dgbint;240244]It is simply illegal.
i dontbelieve its illegal the faa certainly has said no but they dont control mexican airspace as far as im aware nor philippine airspace


You are most welcome to not believe me.
Whether you believe me or not is immaterial.

I am not a lawyer, but here goes ..
The FAA is Federal ( USA ) I understand.
IATA is the international body, with international jurisdiction, I understand.

Here's some IATA doco for you to read and absorb ( or seek proper qualified advice, which I cannot give );

https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2015-en.pdf

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[rotorblades]

[thanks i would have informed everyone along the way even driving across the border if asked anywhere that i have lithiums god what a nightmare for an old very disabled vwteran. my x2 is my only mobility device.i gusy i may have to rent/buy a sailboat

[dgbint]

Agreed, it is a nightmare.

Of course a gen-1 machine ( XT ) can run with NiMH batteries.
Maybe you could get one of these, just for travels.

It could also serve as a back-up, in the event you have an X2 probem.

Might work out cheaper and better, than trying to 'work' the system.

[rotorblades]

[QUOTafter a stroke that darn near killed me i cant do a left hand steer im comfortable only with a leansteer and i just turned 6k miles headed for 10kand ride most of the time right up to a resturant table and lean it to park
i did make it to cabo on a cruise ship too bad i cant find a cruise to the philippinesthanks much for your advice

[segrick-ATL]

[QUOTE=rotorblades;240245]


You are most welcome to not believe me.
Whether you believe me or not is immaterial.

I am not a lawyer, but here goes ..
The FAA is Federal ( USA ) I understand.
IATA is the international body, with international jurisdiction, I understand.

Here's some IATA doco for you to read and absorb ( or seek proper qualified advice, which I cannot give );

https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2015-en.pdf

OK all of that is great info for somebody that wants to ship a few Segways to have a vacation and not rent or whatever. If everyone will just read earlier posts last year-ish from me and others you will see the Federal regulations (CFR) that apply to those that use a Segway as an additive mobility device- along the lines covered in the ADA title 3 language from years ago.
Can't believe the uninformed banter by some here. Keep thinking its 'shipping lion batteries'. Its an accommodation granted by the ACAA that allows/encourages airlines to develop policies that provide safe transport of mobility devices - not just batteries! Most have, depending on the size of the aircraft. Just check with the airline, domestic and international. Many have Segway-specific reference info available to their res and CSAs.

It doesn't matter if you believe a shred of what you read here. Just call!!!

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[segrick-ATL]

[QUOTE=dgbint;240250]



Sorry 'ASSISTIVE' mobility device...

[rotorblades]

But u feel like you need to keep the details to yourself?like =what airlineeveryone stil probably broke the faa "directive"did you just slip through
or new policy change?a class action on the faa would be cooli dont think they believe a segway is dangerous just the weird action of litium on aluminum maybe?

[segrick-ATL]

But u feel like you need to keep the details to yourself?like =what airlineeveryone stil probably broke the faa "directive"did you just slip through
or new policy change?a class action on the faa would be cooli dont think they believe a segway is dangerous just the weird action of litium on aluminum maybe?

ARGH!
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency/us/en/policy-library/government-tsa/batteries.html


https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/unique-travel-needs/customers-with-disabilities-pol.html?clk=GFOOTER-CUSTOMER-ASSISTANCE


https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/specialneeds/disabilities/custwheelchair.aspx


https://www.allegiantair.com/passengers-special-needs
(the lithium battery section- "For mobility aids where the lithium-ion battery is installed as an essential part of the device, there is no watt hour limit for the battery"

http://phmsa.dot.gov/portal/site/PHMSA/menuitem.6f23687cf7b00b0f22e4c6962d9c8789/?vgnextoid=04c1f84f5c658210VgnVCM1000001ecb7898RCR D&vgnextfmt=default

(last paragraph)

http://phmsa.dot.gov/portal/site/PHMSA/menuitem.6f23687cf7b00b0f22e4c6962d9c8789/?vgnextoid=4a34295bba776410VgnVCM100000d2c97898RCR D&vgnextfmt=default


14 CFR 382 (ACAA) was amended and gives each airline the opportunity to make rules for these devices that have li-on batteries larger than the "removable" device batteries.

...and the list goes on... As I have said several times in numerous posts, IF its truly a mobility aid, IF you legitimately use a Segway as such, and IF the airline has put a policy in place after the PHMSA, ICAO and IATA changes about li-on batteries on mobility devices...just call the airline you use and ask.

Happy travels!