Is Doerr plugging the stirling?

[n/a]

quote:Doerr said he expects an ``extraordinary'' innovation in the internal combustion engine...

Is Doerr always selling?

He wasn't solely a salesman. ``He does his homework,'' said Dan'l Lewin, the local Microsoft representative, who was in the audience. Lewin said he was pleased to see Doerr discuss the implications of new innovations in gene-mapping on cancer treatment, which Doerr predicted would be another trend for next year. ``He is one of the most thoughtful, even in context that we all know of, that he is the ultimate salesman,'' Lewin said.

The ``extraordinary'' innovation in the combustion engine Doerr expects is no doubt a genuine prophecy. In March, the United States Patent Office published application No. 20020029567 for the manufacturing of a Stirling engine. The Stirling can be powered by any fuel, and is virtually non-polluting.

Its inventor? Mr. Kamen, of Segway, one of Doerr's investments. It's not clear yet whether Doerr is an investor in the Stirling project. Doerr wouldn't comment on that. But you've got to bet that he wants to be.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/4579592.htm

[ftropea]

I think Doerr is completely sold, and rightfully so, on Kamen's concept for a line of world changing products. The Segway-HT being one, the Stirling engine/water purifier being another...

Perhaps a Stirling based, advance power unit (APU) for modern day homes - smaller version for portable applications - is the "killer" app that Doerr is thinking about.

It's going to take time and speculation to figure out what the long term plan is for DEKA/Segway LLC/New Power Concepts - but that's what we're here for.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

[n/a]

Doerr said he expects an ``extraordinary'' innovation in the internal combustion engine...

The reporter got it wrong about that Doerr was talking about the "internal combustion engine". The fact that he talks about killer aps and an ``extraordinary'' innovation does seem to attest to the fact that Doerr considers the stirling to be a very significant invention. In the proposal Kemper quotes Doerr talking about atoms not bits, and his interest in technology having to do with clean-air, clean water, clean power. As far as I know, this is Doerr's first statement that seems to be directly stirling related.

[Eddie]

Interesting. If Doerr was referring to an internal combustion engine then he was alluding to something other than a stirling. A stirling engine, without exception, must exchange heat externally. The working fluid, typically light gasses with advantageous thermal properties, is sealed in a closed system and cyclically heated and cooled which in turn causes the gas to expand and contract. The advantage of an external heat source means the number of "fuels" is increased and can include solar power.

[n/a]

Maybe the reporter was right about Doerr talking about the internal combustion engine. Maybe the reporter got confused and assumed that Doerr was talking about the Stirling?

[hodgepoj]

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

[quote]Doerr said he expects an ``extraordinary'' innovation in the internal combustion engine...

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/4579592.htm


I hope Doerr (whoever he is) was not referring to the Stirling engine as "internal combustion." Nor should any members of this forum. It would be bad for our image as a technically savvy group.

The Stirling engine is, of course, external combustion. It converts heat energy to mechanical energy and uses any source of heat -- combustion of hydrocarbons, solar, radient, electrical resistance, exothermal chemical reactions, geothermal, radioactivity, nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, or whatever.



Dr. Paul O. Johnson
Senior Exhibit Developer
The Science Place
Dallas, Texas 75210

[Blinky]

hodgepoj writes,
quote:The Stirling engine is, of course, external combustion. It converts heat energy to mechanical energy and uses any source of heat -- combustion of hydrocarbons, solar, radient, electrical resistance, exothermal chemical reactions, geothermal, radioactivity, nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, or whatever.
If the stirling was made with an internal combustion engine and was environmentally sound, would that be so bad?

I do agree with you, it would be irresponsible for us to quote nothing official like the stirling having an "internal combustion".

[Casey]

http://www.howstuffworks.com/stirling-engine.htm

[hodgepoj]

quote:Originally posted by Blinky

If the stirling was made with an internal combustion engine and was environmentally sound, would that be so bad?



That would not be possible, Blinky. The basic concept of the Stirling engine is external combustion -- or rather, external heat source, which doesn't have to be from combustion.

Dr. Paul O. Johnson
Senior Exhibit Developer
The Science Place
Dallas, Texas 75210

[Casey]

Another proper name is heat differential engine. As opposed to any combustion being needed, you simply need a sufficient difference in temperature from the "hot" end to the "cold" end to expand the internal gas.

[Blinky]

hodgepoj writes,
quote:That would not be possible, Blinky. The basic concept of the Stirling engine is external combustion -- or rather, external heat source, which doesn't have to be from combustion.
Thank you Dr. Johnson! See, I am learning something :D

edited: I did have the word 'new' in the previous sentence(right after 'something'), but that would have set you guys up for another correction :)

[GyroGo]

www.StirlingInfo.com

Please let me know if you have trouble viewing.

[n/a]

Thanks for the link gyro. It listed companies working on stirlings but did not include one I have seen earlier that had a number of stirlings apparently ready for production.

[don c.]

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

Thanks for the link gyro. It listed companies working on stirlings but did not include one I have seen earlier that had a number of stirlings apparently ready for production.


There was one link under 'Stirling News' I found interesting:

TRIUMPH GROUP SELECTED AS SUPPLIER OF MAJOR PART FOR A NEW TECHNOLOGY POWER GENERATION SYSTEM
(http://www.triumphgroup.com/RecentNewsItem.asp?CompanyID=29&NewsID=137
)

11/20/02

Wayne, PA - November 20, 2002 - Triumph Group, Inc. (NYSE:TGI) announced today that it has been selected by STM Power, Inc. of Ann Arbor, MI to supply the combustor and pre-heater assembly for their new line of Stirling Engine powered generators. The long-term agreement between STM Power and Triumph Components-San Diego, Inc. has an estimated value in excess of $50 million over the next 5 years. TCSD has received a release for the first 1500 production units for delivery in CY 2003 and 2004.

Richard Ill, President and Chief Executive Officer of Triumph Group, Inc. said, "STM Power's decision to place this business with Triumph was driven by our ability to apply lean manufacturing principles and provide continuous improvement that will keep cost and quality in line with the demands of the market place. This win is in keeping with our strategy as a Group to further our business in the power generation market."

Thomas R. Hazlett, President and CEO of STM Power said, "The decision to select Triumph for this critical element of our PowerUnit was driven by our respect for the commitment of their team, and the quality of their work on our Beta units now operating in the field." STM Power is the world leader in Stirling Cycle engine technology, and has made technological breakthroughs in the design, production and durability of their Stirling Cycle Engine. STM has been developing its solution for fuel-flexible, cost effective, low emission, low maintenance distributed power generation aggressively for the last 10 years. The first model to be available will be capable of generating between 40 and 55 KW. Stirling Cycle engines are especially well suited to this application because they can harness energy from virtually any type of heat source, including heated air, solar power, or any combustible fuel, such as methane, hydrogen and biomass. STM plans to introduce a family of systems ranging from 40KW to 160 KW, and to market them worldwide. (my bold letters)

Triumph Components-San Diego, Inc. located at 203 North Johnson Ave., El Cajon, CA manufactures complex sheet metal assemblies for aerospace and power generation applications from a broad range of materials such as inconel, titanium and aluminum.

Triumph Group, Inc., headquartered in Wayne, PA designs, engineers, manufactures, and repairs aircraft components and power generation components and accessories. The company serves a broad spectrum of the aviation industry, including commercial airlines and air cargo carriers, as well as original equipment manufacturers of aircraft and aircraft components and power generation equipment. Triumph also distribute, processes and fabricates metal assemblies.
______________________________________

Also, from the STM Power site: http://www.stmpower.com/Press/mpsc.htm

STM Power, Inc. Awarded Grant by Michigan Public Service Commission;Low-Income and Energy Efficiency Fund

ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN - July 31, 2002 - STM Power, Inc. announced today that the company has been awarded a 50 percent matching grant of $53,200 by the Michigan Public Service Commission from its Low-Income and Energy Efficiency Fund. The grant will cover the cost of installing, operating, and evaluating 25 kW STM PowerUnits at EQ Energy Recovery, Inc., a landfill gas management company in Belleville, Michigan.

"This grant provides us with an excellent opportunity to demonstrate the outstanding capabilities of our Stirling cycle engine using landfill gas. We are proud to be introducing a product designed and built in Michigan that is beneficial to the environment and supports our need for energy independence," stated Thomas R. Hazlett, President and CEO of STM Power Inc.

It appears that the Stirling at the heart of the "SunDish" system will continue to be marketed minus the solar heating aspect - the stretched membrane solar reflector provided by SAIC. This was the 25kW system trialed at the Pentagon, and later at the Pima Maricopa Indian Reservation landfill in Arizona. During nightime or cloudy days, the STM-4 stirling was powered by landfill gas or natural gas.

Assuming that all 1500 of the above mentioned units from Triumph make their way onto production PowerUnits, and that these are sold, that would mean between 60 and 82.5 megawatts of generating capacity, if the 40 to 55kW figure per PowerUnit is accurate

[hodgepoj]

quote:Originally posted by Casey

Another proper name is heat differential engine. As opposed to any combustion being needed, you simply need a sufficient difference in temperature from the "hot" end to the "cold" end to expand the internal gas.


In fact, Casey, all engines are "heat differential." They are all simply transducers that convert heat energy to mechanical energy with less than 100% efficiency.

See any book on thermodynamics. The only 100%-efficient engine is the theoretical Carnot-cycle engine. All real engines can at most only approach the efficiency of a Carnot engine.

The gasoline engine runs in what is called the "Otto cycle," just as the diesel engine runs in the "Diesel cycle." They are both internal combustion engines because the heat is generated by hydrocarbon combustion inside the engine.

Other engines, such as steam and Stirling engines, are usually called external combustion because the heat is usually generated external to the engine.

But the heat for any engine, from Otto cycle to Stirling cycle, doesn't have to come from combustion of a fuel. As I said in an earlier message, I developed a Stirling engine for an RPV that got its heat from a radioactive source. And you can buy toy "steam engines" that get their heat from an electric heater.

The efficiency of any engine depends on the temperature difference between the heat source and the exhaust. You could run what we commonly call a "gasoline engine" by using solar heat, but you'd have to transfer the heat in and out at the correct times during the piston cycle.

Dr. Paul O. Johnson
Senior Exhibit Developer
The Science Place
Dallas, Texas 75210

[Casey]

Your point concerning all engines having a "heat differential" is true. That was not my point.

While there is a heat differential across an Otto or Diesel cycle engine, they both require an internal explosion (gas expanded by ignition) where a Stirling engine is operated with no internal explosion. It operates only by the heat differential indirectly expanding a non combustable internal gas.

As you know I am not an engineer, but I am sure you can understand what I am saying. I do not think IC engines would be considered "heat differential" engines by most people.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Stirling%20Cycle

quote:The Stirling Cycle is a method of extracting useful motive force from an available temperature gradient. Essentially, it takes the energy from the temperature differential and uses it to drive a piston-based mechanism, typically called a Stirling Cycle Engine, or just Stirling Engine. The Stirling Cycle Engine is a specific form of Carnot Cycle device.

[GyroGo]

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

Thanks for the link gyro. It listed companies working on stirlings but did not include one I have seen earlier that had a number of stirlings apparently ready for production.

Lawrence, am I supposed to guess which one? :)
Everyone, please let me know what important links I'm missing.

This is a work in progress, and a forum should be available hopefully by January. Also, I'll being looking for help with the forum's admin and moderation soon, if anyone is interested you can let me know here or at natoUSA@aol.com. This is my first mention of it and I haven't really started configuring the forum yet. It will probably be a phpBB forum under StirlingChat.com, though I also own StirlingForum.com and StirlingTalk.com and am thinking of consolidating it with StirlingInfo.com possibly under one name such as StirlingCenter.com (just a thought).

When the forum gets closer to coming online, I’ll give it a thread of it’s own and better publicity, but this is just an early word.

Anyone interested please let me know.

Thanks,

Gary

[n/a]

quote:Lawrence, am I supposed to guess which one?
Everyone, please let me know what important links I'm missing.


Gyro, I saw that link posted on TIQ a while back. Unfortunately I havent been able to locate it. I just recall that they were near production and that they had several versions of inexpensive stirlings.

[GyroGo]

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence


Gyro, I saw that link posted on TIQ a while back. Unfortunately I havent been able to locate it. I just recall that they were near production and that they had several versions of inexpensive stirlings.

Lawrence, was it Sunpower? They make coolers and demonstrator model engines. I'll be uploading that link www.Sunpower.com to StirlingInfo in the next day or so.

www.StirlingInfo.com

[hodgepoj]

quote:Originally posted by Casey

I am not an engineer but I am sure you can understand what I am saying. I do not think internal engines engines would be considered "heat differential" engines by most people. The Stirling Cycle is a method of extracting useful motive force from an available temperature gradient.


I don't think you have to be trained as an engineer to understand the theory of heat engines (by which I mean ALL engines), Casey. The Stirling engine is in no way unique in extracting useful motive force from an available temperature gradient. ALL engines do this.

Any engine is defined as a device that operates in a cycle and produces useful motive force (usually in the form of a rotating shaft) from an available temperature gradient. The greater the gradient, the higher the efficiency of the engine.

In other words, all engines convert heat energy into mechanical energy. They all must have a heat source at a high temperature (it can be either internal or external to the cylinder), and they all must have a heat sink at a lower temperature (the lower the better). The conventional steam engine is by far the best known external combustion engine.

quote:
Essentially, the Stirling engine takes the energy from the temperature differential and uses it to drive a piston-based mechanism.


The stirling (or ANY) engine uses only PART of the energy it takes from the heat source. No real engine can convert all the heat it extracts into useful work. It will always eject (exhaust) some of the heat into the low temperature sink. Therefore, no real engine will be 100% efficient.

quote:
The Stirling Cycle Engine is a specific form of Carnot Cycle device.


All engines using any cycle (Otto, Diesel, Steam, whatever) are specific (practical) forms of the (ideal) Carnot cycle engine.

Dr. Paul O. Johnson
Senior Exhibit Developer
The Science Place
Dallas, Texas 75210