vandals tipping smart cars, will Segwaysbe next targets

[bob yarbrough]

After reading the attached story, do I now need to worry about vandals/tech protestors someday tipping over my Segway I2.


I know the financial damage done isn't funny, but the thought of someone tipping over a Segway in protest is kind of funny.


http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Car-Tippers-Rage-Against-the-Machine-80267.html


be safe,
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[Tritium]

What a great way to get a workout!
I might start lifting Smart cars instead of weights.

[KSagal]

Interesting choice for anti-technology folks to attack.

I have only seen normal gas driven Smart Cars. I know they are small, but I did not think they were particularly representative of very high tech in automotive technology.

Maybe a hybrid, or electric car would be more in line with their rebellion, but of course, they also weigh much more. No reason to be accurate, if it will help to cause your hernia.

Messages like this are so often delivered by the easily led, rather than those who actually think...

[bob yarbrough]

Interesting choice for anti-technology folks to attack.

Messages like this are so often delivered by the easily led, rather than those who actually think...



Karl,

Your last paragraph made me think of the the not wearing of helmets by many here who regard it as their right , freedom or privilege. How many are being "easily led" in a similar fashion? Can you picture these people walking barefoot on a snow covered sidewalk for several blocks or miles or walking barefotted across a large stretch of hot sunny sandy beachfront.

Until people start walking in this kind of fashion on a regular basis I find it easy to understand why people are "easily led" by those who
supposedly "actually think".



be safe,
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[Tritium]

Karl,

Can you picture these people walking barefoot on a snow covered sidewalk for several blocks or miles or walking barefotted across a large stretch of hot sunny sandy beachfront.




be safe,
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy


I sure can, I quite enjoy walking on hot beaches and snow.

But that's personal, I'll only live so long, and I'd rather enjoy everything.

[KSagal]

Karl,

Your last paragraph made me think of the the not wearing of helmets by many here who regard it as their right , freedom or privilege. How many are being "easily led" in a similar fashion? Can you picture these people walking barefoot on a snow covered sidewalk for several blocks or miles or walking barefotted across a large stretch of hot sunny sandy beachfront.

Until people start walking in this kind of fashion on a regular basis I find it easy to understand why people are "easily led" by those who
supposedly "actually think".



be safe,
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

Wow!
I should not take the bait, but okay. Who is leading the people who choose not to wear helmets?

And for the record, I do not wear shoes on hot sand. You can get used to it. (But it can be hot or uncomfortable)

I also skydived for years with a man who liked the fact that he never wore shoes. He was a man my age (actually a couple years older) and was basically a non-reformed hippy. He had long hair, and while he did wear a heavy multi colored poncho when it was cold, he always wore shorts, and no shoes. Even in snow. Even skydiving. Having seen him walk thru Massachusetts winters year after year with no shoes on, makes me chuckle at your choice of example...

AND, it is my right, my freedom, and my privilege to choose for myself what I will wear on my head and elsewhere. I will not let you lead me ignorantly into thinking it is your right to choose that for me.

[bob yarbrough]

That is a good question. How and who's being "easily led".

Let's suppose you can identify one, one hundred or one thousand people who can tolerate several blocks or miles of covered snow covered sidewalk or a large sunny hot stretch of beach(and we are not talking about where the sand is wet and cool from the water).
How does the above
statements of bs logics compare for the uS population or for the worlds population.

Why not just string a wire across Niagara Falls and walk across

Why not jump off a two story building be cause that other guy did and survived.

There are reports of people who have jumped from planes with non working parachutes and survived.

These are extreme cases and you both are using the same bs logic.



be safe,
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[KSagal]

That is a good question. How and who's being "easily led".

Let's suppose you can identify one, one hundred or one thousand people who can tolerate several blocks or miles of covered snow covered sidewalk or a large sunny hot stretch of beach(and we are not talking about where the sand is wet and cool from the water).
How does the above
statements of bs logics compare for the uS population or for the worlds population.

Why not just string a wire across Niagara Falls and walk across

Why not jump off a two story building be cause that other guy did and survived.

There are reports of people who have jumped from planes with non working parachutes and survived.

These are extreme cases and you both are using the same bs logic.



be safe,
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

Bob,

Thanks for the postings. It would have been nice for you to answer the question I posted, "who is leading those who choose not to wear helmets?" It was clearly your choice not to answer.

I happily stand re-aware of your choice to wear a helmet on your segway, and re-aware of your disrespect for those of us who choose not to.

Thanks for the reminder.

Have a nice day.

[bob yarbrough]

Karl,

As I said, I could care less wether you or anyone else wear a helmet. And again for the record there are no rights, freedoms or privileges in "choosing" to wear or not wear a helmet. It only has to do with exercising common sense. Why do we all not wear shoes(as an example), because we all exercise a certain minimum level of common sense. We all have gone barefoot at times.

Not answering a question. Now that was funny.

You first brought up the "easily led". I brought up
"" How many are being "easily led" in a similar fashion? "". You asked
"" Who is leading the people who choose not to wear helmets? "".

I don't know that they have a declared leader.
But since you seem to be the most vocal about it I would certainly be willing to put your name up for nomination. And if they reject you , you maybe could become their head cheerleader.

And may you also have a nice day.


be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[Bob.Kerns]

Wow!
I should not take the bait, but okay.

Karl: Not easily led, but easily baited.

:)

(I can't really claim to be significantly harder to bait...)

[Cybercat]

AND, it is my right, my freedom, and my privilege to choose for myself what I will wear on my head and elsewhere. I will not let you lead me ignorantly into thinking it is your right to choose that for me.

Well, technically speaking, society makes such choices for us on a daily basis. Try walking around naked, and see what happens. As a society, we make rules all the time that tell us what we can and can't do, including what we can and can't wear. Some rules have to do with societal norms (nudity is a no-no), and others have to do with potential costs to society. When you choose not to wear your helmet, you put yourself at greater risk. And if you do have an accident, there can be huge costs to society - ambulance, medical costs, disability payments, etc., etc., etc. So society says we need to prevent such things by passing laws.

And those laws affect everything we do every single day. Wear your seat belt. No U turn. Warnings on cigarettes. No driving under the influence. No jaywalking. You name it. These are things that put you at risk, so society prohibits, requires, or regulates them.

So, should the use of a helmet be one of the things regulated? Reasonable minds differ. Personally, I think someone has to be crazy not to use one, but I can respect a different opinion.

As long as the person is consistent, that is. Generally I find, tho, that a lot of people who get up in arms about society telling them what to do are the very same people who are the most vocal supporters of regulations to tell others how to lead their lives. I can respect anyone's opinion, so long as they're consistent. I don't have a lot of respect for hypocrites, tho, and this world seems to be filled with them. (And just to be clear, I am not accusing you of that, because I don't know you - just a statement of my philosophy in general.)

[Bob.Kerns]

Well, technically speaking, society makes such choices for us on a daily basis. Try walking around naked, and see what happens.

It depends, on context, age, and gender.

Until recently, nudity was legal in San Francisco. In fact, until I looked for links, I didn't know a ban had been passed. You only need a very small amount of cover, though, to be legal.

And in NYC, going topless is also legal.

People tend to over-estimate how much of the prohibition against nudity is legal, vs social. In most situations, the social aspect has far more impact on people's behavior; the legal hardly enters into it.

[KSagal]

Well, technically speaking, society makes such choices for us on a daily basis. Try walking around naked, and see what happens. As a society, we make rules all the time that tell us what we can and can't do, including what we can and can't wear. Some have to do with societal norms (nudity is a no-no), and others have to do with potential costs to society. When you choose not to wear your helmet, you put yourself at greater risk. And if you do have an accident, there can be huge costs to society - ambulance, medical costs, disability payments, etc., etc., etc. So society says we need laws to prevent such things by passing laws.

And those laws affect everything we do every single day. Wear your seat belt. No U turn. Warnings on cigarettes. No driving under the influence. No jaywalking. You name it. These are things that put you at risk, so society prohibits, requires, or regulates them.

So, should the use of a helmet be one of the things regulated? Reasonable minds differ. Personally, I think someone has to be crazy not to use one, but I can respect a different opinion.

As long as the person is consistent, that is. Generally I find, tho, that a lot of people who get up in arms about society telling them what to do are the very same people who are the most vocal supporters of regulations to tell others how to lead their lives. I can respect anyone's opinion, so long as they're consistent. I don't have a lot of respect for hypocrites, tho, and this world seems to be filled with them. (And just to be clear, I am not accusing you of that, because I don't know you - just a statement of my philosophy in general.)

You make a good point and I mostly agree, but there are plenty of places where the society makes different rules. There are states without seat belt laws or motorcycle helmet laws, and even places where public nudity is not prohibited. So, society is not consistent itself.

But my comment was not about society at large, but to one poster who constantly rails on and on about wearing helmets on segways, and seems to respond aggressively to my posted choice to allow people to wear them or not as they see fit. He has posted several conflicting statements about it, but is clear that he feels we should wear helmets, and not to do so is foolish.

I used his exact words of rights, privileges, and freedom and choice were not mine to decide if I should wear a helmet or not. Of course they are, relative to him trying to deny me that choice.

Bear in mind also, there are reasonable studies that have determined that motor cycle helmets do reduce injuries, are that seat belts reduce injuries in car accidents. I do not know of any reasonable studies that examine if helmets actually reduce injuries on segways...

Keep in mind that speeds on segways are far slower on average than on any of the other conveyances discussed in either of our postings.

By law, a person on a segway in most instances is a pedestrian. (sometimes treated like a person on a bike, but while on sidewalks, clearly a pedestrian)

Now, if we look at pedestrians who travel on sidewalks like segways, and we acknowledge that they are traveling a bit faster than other pedestrians, then I have to ask, do you feel it appropriate to require joggers to wear helmets?

I suspect that joggers must fall sometimes. I further suggest that if they do, and land on their heads, them potentially a helmet may reduce that particular injury...

So in that case, a helmet may help, but the concept of 'Requiring' all joggers to wear them would have such a minor impact on any positive injury results that it is a silly rule.

I believe that helmets on segways fall into the same category as helmets on joggers.

Furthermore, I believe there is a negative safety aspect to helmets, as they have the potential to be hot, and can impact the ability to move the head, and to have peripheral vision. So, the potential discomfort and reduction of safety, while small, seems to exist for me, which will further diminish the positive effect of requiring joggers and segway operators to use helmets...

Since many people use them as mobility aides, do you suggest that people use helmets in that environment as well? How about people in wheel chairs? Surely, somewhere sometime, someone has fallen out of a wheelchair. Did they hit their head? Should they wear helmets? Where do you draw that line?

And there you have it all. Reasonable assumption, but no reasonable science to the value of wearing a helmet on a segway, coupled with no laws that compel them, leave me with my opinion about them...

I most often do not use one. I sometimes do, when in certain road or off road situations. I also resist people telling me to wear one, but I do not and have never advocated people should not wear one either. I believe people should do what they want. (Except my children, whom I require to wear a helmet when on my segway)

One last point. I consider myself a segway advocate. People have often expressed trepidation as the difficulty of riding a segway. I believe that many feel they are harder than they actually are. If the general public that is unfamiliar with riding segways see only riders in helmets, they may feel that they are actually harder to ride than they are...

[bob yarbrough]

<<<
I used his exact words of rights, privileges, and freedom and choice were not mine to decide if I should wear a helmet or not. Of course they are, relative to him trying to deny me that choice.
>>>



I'm sorry if Karl feels as if I'm trying to pick on him. I'm sorry Karl feels that people (or am I the only one he feels this way about, I'm not quiet sure) are telling him to wear a helmet.

I have said repeatedly I do not have a problem with those who choose not to wear a helmet as I myself glided for several years without wearing a helmet myself.

We do however seem to disagree when it comes to the following point.

I know the act or wearing or not wearing a helmet has NOTHING to do with ones rights, ones freedoms or ones privileges. It has only to do with exercising common sense...plain and simple. That is what I believe.


be safe,
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[jgbackes]

I disagree with most people on most subjects...

If society has to bear the cost of people doing dangerous things, I guess that's the cost of being in the society. If I don't like people doing dangerous things I can move to where everyone is careful about everything or... I can get over it.

There are costs to society if you are not a responsible person. If you throw a lit cigarette out the window of your car, most of the time it just litters the highway, sometimes however it causes a fire.

There is no way that you can prove that your actions might not in some way effect society. If you kill yourself, perhaps your children will receive survivor benefits and society as a whole pays for that. If you maim yourself your insurance, life savings, something has to pay. Perhaps you will become a vegetable and require years of intensive care. Society will have to pay for that. Perhaps you are one month away from thinking the greatest thought ever thought. But instead you decide to go skydiving without a reserve shoot and ... opps. Society will never get the benefit of that great thought you never got to think.

I don't want people to change I want them to admit that their behavior does have an effect on everyone in the society.

Now, stop reading this, go outside and enjoy the fresh air :)

jeff

[bob yarbrough]

Hopefully we have all gotten some fresh air and enjoyed these last few days. So....


>>>
Of course they are, relative to him trying to deny me that choice.
===



Many other members have used the words right, freedom and privilege long before I ever made used of these terms. And
reject the idea or not ones rights, ones freedoms and ones privileges (IMHO) should not have any bearing in ones decision making process to exercise good common sense in the use of a helmet when ascendsing a Segway.

IF there are studies on cars, motorcycles, bicycles, skateboards, joggers and even pedestrians, WHY does one need a specific study tied to the Segway? Should we get a study for the kiddies tricycles also?

It's very simple...in the event of an accident you do not get to CHOOSE. You do not get to choose what kind of accident occurs, when that accident may happen and certainly not the severity of injuries.

I do know that a selfish child may often times feel they are being denied something. I also know, despite Karls protest, that it is about making a common sense decision only.


As for Karls assertion of the Segway being a slow conveyance, and for some clarity of what I've actually said...
check the following links.

link 1.
"some helpful tips"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CVt9GSbhhs


link 2.
check out the last 30 seconds of this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rGFhMKfJRs



be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[KSagal]

Bob,

You are entirely welcome to your opinions, and you are welcome to tell other people about them. I did watch a bit of your slideshow, and made the following notes. (the second link did not work for me) I find that several of your comments are unsupported by facts.

1. "Always wear a helmet. "
1a. "It is required in some localities." (Where? I know of none where adults are required by law to wear a helmet.) Do you know of any places where adults are required to wear helmets on segways?

1b. "Faster your speed… 10 – 12 mph on a segway may feel like 40-50 in a car… "
Really? This is totally subjective. Sometime, my 13.5 mph on my segway feels so slow, I think I could get off and run faster. Which I can, but only for a short distance.

At that point however, when I was running, would Bob tell me to wear a helmet, as I pass the segways that he tells people to wear helmets on?

1c. "A helmet is your only real protection against head injury in the event of an accident… "

This is completely false, misleading and can get people hurt.

Your best protection against head injury is to pay attention and not have the accident.

Your next best protection is to act proactively during the accident, and minimize your injury, including protecting your head with your arms and the way you fall.

Depending on your helmet has been proven to be misleading and there have been more head injuries since the introduction of helmets and their widespread acceptance exactly because of the mistake that Bob is making, and that is to depend on them to protect you from serious head injuries instead of using what is in your head (brain) to think your way to safety. This is not so with segways, as there have been no studies that I am aware of, and Bob has likewise offered none. It is so, and documented in studies on other conveyances like bikes, but they are very different, and act very differently.

BUT, helmets do help a bit with lessening scalp abrasions.

1d. "It’s irresponsible of a person to permit anyone to step onto a segway without a helmet securely in position."

TOTALLY subjective. I believe it is irresponsible to offer opinion as if they were prove-able facts, which these are not.

Tip 2. "Mounting a segway is a little like stepping onto the first step of a short somewhat slightly shakey ladder."

Not so. Mounting a segway is exactly like stepping onto a segway. A segway is not somewhat shaky, unless the operator is shaky. When I mount a segway it is solid as a rock, because I do not shake. However, when I mount a shaky ladder, the ladder will shake, as that is how this ladder has been defined.

2a. "The back and forth wobbling that you may experience will disappear shortly."
This is not accurate at all. The wobbling that you may experience is because you are making it wobble. If you stop making it wobble, it will stop. IF YOU DO not stop making it wobble, it will not stop. To say it will stop on its own, is misleading, and indicating that the wobble is not caused by the person, and this is not so. It is entirely caused by the person.


I could go on, but the point is made. These are opinions from the Bob, and I believe he honestly believes them. But honestly believing them does not make them facts.

Also, in Bob's post, he states "It's very simple...in the event of an accident you do not get to CHOOSE. You do not get to choose what kind of accident occurs, when that accident may happen and certainly not the severity of injuries. "

And while it is very much defeatist, it is also simply not so. We all can take responsibility for our lives, or we can tell others that we do not get to choose. OF course we can choose, and many of those choices will make a tremendous difference if we have an accident or not, or how severe those resultant accidents will be.

There are many factors that may not be within your control, but most are. You can choose when to glide defensively, and when to trust that others are doing what they should be doing. You can choose to keep your head on swivel, and pay attention to all the event around you, so that you can see and avoid other people's missteps that could result in an accident that involves you, or you can choose to ignore the world around you.

You can choose to text, or otherwise divert your attention from what you are doing, or choose not to.

And for the record, driving a segway is an act of paying attention to far more than how to control the segway. It is an act of controlling the segway, while interacting with others who may or often may not do what they should be doing in their cars or bikes or sneakers etc...

The same can be said for driving a car. My 14 year old is taller than I, and far stronger than his mother, yet he cannot drive a car, and his mom and I can. This is not because of his ability to manipulate the car, as he can, but because he does not have the maturity, and the attention span required to effectively manipulate that car in a manner that will not endanger himself or others.

Segways are not much different, except by scale.

There are far more important things than just learning to manipulate the segway and wear this piece of armor or that, to being safe on a segway, at least by my opinion. (and I can support that opinion with objective facts)

[bob yarbrough]

The very first screen states for

...new owners and beginner Segway users...

Like yourself I'm sure there are many experienced gliders would disagree with the tips...as you did several years back when you cautioned me about the contents of my video. My tips are based on my experiences...god and bad...

You're free to disagree with my opinions but that will not and cannot change my opinions or my experiences upon which the video is based.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rGFhMKfJRs


Thank you

be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[bob yarbrough]

Let's try that again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rGFhMKfJRs



http://www.


youtube.com/watch?v=4rGFhMKfJRs

[bob yarbrough]

http://www.youtube.com/user/bfrrvideo

If this works?...look for the kid on the Segway

[KSagal]

I am not sure why you used a German video, but is that supposed to example your statement that you cannot choose your accidents? That you cannot have control on how you get hurt?

How much did that kid weigh? Was he of the recommended weight? I don't know, and I am sure you do not either.

The entirety of that video had both cameraman and kid doing all kinds of things that were likely to get them in trouble. It was just a matter of time for many of the factors to gather and create the problem.

1. Kid and cameraman were often gliding at full speed and not looking where they were going.

2. Kid had to move on the platform to keep going forward. You can see him move around (which is why I asked his weight)

3. Most importantly, look at the kid's body position just before his accident. He was leaning hard into the segway lean steer, BECAUSE it was slowing him down, and giving him push back. He was ignoring it, and trying to overpower the push back.

So, at the time of his accident, he appeared to be under weight, he clearly was not looking at where he was going, he was ignoring input from the segway in the form of push back, and he was on so many levels riding in a manner contrary to how he should have been riding.

The helmet was a non-factor. I state that it is my clear opinion that if he did not inappropriately do 1, 2, and 3 above, he could have fared better that day without a helmet. Since he did them anyway, with his helmet, it directly attacks your statement that a helmet is his best defense... it was not even a factor here....

[Gihgehls]

I see both sides of this healthy debate. I don't personally wear a helmet when I glide. I can see Bob Y.'s point, I think, which can be summed up as "control the things you have control over, to be prepared for the things you don't."

This is undoubtedly a good philosophy. I think where you two essentially differ is in your risk assessment. Karl has identified many controllable elements of this accident that if changed, would have prevented it. The problem is that not everything is under our own control.

Consider the gliding abilities of some of the best gliders: polo players. Many I know do not wear helmets when gliding, but they do on the field. Why? The ball isn't hard enough to do damage. The rules of the game state that the mallet should never rise above your waist. Of course, everyone is always following the rules, right?

Many confident motorcycle riders choose to wear no helmet (or an unapproved/untested skullcap.) They might believe that since they are so careful, skilled, and experienced the bike will never crash while they are riding it. A real skilled motorcyclist knows that his/her greatest safetfy equipment isn't the helmet, but his/her AWARENESS of all the things he/she cannot control. But it is impossible to account for everything, which is what I think Bob Y. is saying.

Not every segway accident is going to be a low speed, low force event. Consider getting hit by a drunk driver on a crosswalk. You might break every bone in your body and get thrown 30 feet. Wearing a helmet in this situation might mean the difference between life and death. But I don't wear a helmet, so I need to depend on my awareness. I accept that this will only inch me toward 100% safe while never ever reaching it.

[KSagal]

I see both sides of this healthy debate. I don't personally wear a helmet when I glide. I can see Bob Y.'s point, I think, which can be summed up as "control the things you have control over, to be prepared for the things you don't."

This is undoubtedly a good philosophy. I think where you two essentially differ is in your risk assessment. Karl has identified many controllable elements of this accident that if changed, would have prevented it. The problem is that not everything is under our own control.

Consider the gliding abilities of some of the best gliders: polo players. Many I know do not wear helmets when gliding, but they do on the field. Why? The ball isn't hard enough to do damage. The rules of the game state that the mallet should never rise above your waist. Of course, everyone is always following the rules, right?

Many confident motorcycle riders choose to wear no helmet (or an unapproved/untested skullcap.) They might believe that since they are so careful, skilled, and experienced the bike will never crash while they are riding it. A real skilled motorcyclist knows that his/her greatest safetfy equipment isn't the helmet, but his/her AWARENESS of all the things he/she cannot control. But it is impossible to account for everything, which is what I think Bob Y. is saying.

Not every segway accident is going to be a low speed, low force event. Consider getting hit by a drunk driver on a crosswalk. You might break every bone in your body and get thrown 30 feet. Wearing a helmet in this situation might mean the difference between life and death. But I don't wear a helmet, so I need to depend on my awareness. I accept that this will only inch me toward 100% safe while never ever reaching it.

I agree with most everything in this post. Unfortunately, it is "Gihgehls" argument, not Bob's. I believe that Gihgehls and I pretty much agree on this topic. I usually do not wear a helmet, but given some circumstances where there are more variables that I cannot control (like on a polo field) I would wear one...

But if I were to have a conversation with Gihgehls on this topic, my arguments, if any, would be different than what I say to Bob. He is the one who said it is irresponsible for anyone to mount a segway, or allow anyone else to mount a segway without a helmet.

That is a very different argument than Gihgehls makes, and leaves no room for individual risk assessment.

I liken his argument to that of an ex-smoker toward cigarette smoke. I know lots of people who don't like cigarette smoke, but my experience is that the most aggressive are those who are ex-smokers themselves.

Bob is quick to insist it is common sense to wear a helmet, but he himself admits to not wearing them for years. I guess he had no common sense, and now feels he has found common sense.

And common sense to wear a helmet, and irresponsible to not wear one, is a very different argument than variable risk assessment.

[Tritium]

I don't wear a helmet, unless I'm on a tour.
I know that the possible consequences I may incur due to this choice could possibly danger me.
But I'm not going to change how I prefer to live due to a group of people telling me to do so.

It's like vegans.
I eat meat, I don't have any hate towards vegans, however they harass me when I talk about meat/eating meat.
Should I harass them back when they're talking about their chicken "burgers"?
I don't think so.

I also feel we've taken Bobs thread off topic, and even though the post is quite humorous, we're still not talking about people tipping over Segways.

[KSagal]

I don't wear a helmet, unless I'm on a tour.
I know that the possible consequences I may incur due to this choice could possibly danger me.
But I'm not going to change how I prefer to live due to a group of people telling me to do so.

It's like vegans.
I eat meat, I don't have any hate towards vegans, however they harass me when I talk about meat/eating meat.
Should I harass them back when they're talking about their chicken "burgers"?
I don't think so.

I also feel we've taken Bobs thread off topic, and even though the post is quite humorous, we're still not talking about people tipping over Segways.

Actually, the OP (Bob) mentioned the car tipping. You mentioned the car tipping. I mentioned the car tipping. Then Bob saw my post, and went to his automatic rant about helmets. The debate has been about what the OP said in his 2nd posting on this thread ever since.

Bob wants to discuss this. Some of us are indulging him.

[bob yarbrough]

<<<
Bob is quick to insist it is common sense to wear a helmet, but he himself admits to not wearing them for years. I guess he had no common sense, and now feels he has found common sense.
-----
Karl may well be correct in that I had no common sense (in my early years). The childrens home where I learned to ride a bicycle there was never any type of education/instruction regarding helmets (late 50's & early 60's) given by any guardians in charge of my care and later the same from my parents. In my 50's my wife would suggest the use of a helmet and eventually after a fall or two on a bicycle I would occasionally wear one. My relunctance was one of several different reasons which I previously posted in Karls thread of "do you wear a helmet".

Eventually after several years of ownership of a Segway I saw two young kids riding around on electric scooters without helmets. The thought of one of those kids someday getting hurt because of the absence of a helmet and the fear (real or imagined) that I might
bear some responsibility simply because they had seen me riding without a helmet compelled me to get use to the idea of wearing a helmet all the time while bicycling or gliding.



<<<<
He is the one who said it is irresponsible for anyone to mount a segway, or allow anyone else to mount a segway without a helmet.
-----
I absolutely stand by what I said.
For both liability issues and potential risk issues for all involved.
...new owners and beginner Segway users...


I understand Karl likes to talk...I understand he likes to offer his opinion. Heck I don't even mind if he disagrees with me (even a lot ). What I do mind is it seems a relunctance, or is it an absence of of self-restraint/self-discipline in offering those opinions. Without such discipline his opinions come across (IMHO) as a kind of compulsive or addictive behavior with regard to speaking. It just strikes me as a kind of rude behavior. But again it's just my opinion of his opinions.

-----

Tritium,
Are you the one who would like their Segway to go 15mph.
Soooo...you want to go 15mph without a
helmet on a Segway?
Really???


be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[Tritium]

Tritium,
Are you the one who would like their Segway to go 15mph.
Soooo...you want to go 15mph without a
helmet on a Segway?
Really???


be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

Yes, yes I am, a 2.5mph increase would not matter much whether I wear a helmet or not.
If I'm dead, I'm dead, I can't dispute the fact that it is quite easy to die.

[Bob.Kerns]

Not every segway accident is going to be a low speed, low force event. Consider getting hit by a drunk driver on a crosswalk. You might break every bone in your body and get thrown 30 feet. Wearing a helmet in this situation might mean the difference between life and death. But I don't wear a helmet, so I need to depend on my awareness. I accept that this will only inch me toward 100% safe while never ever reaching it.

I wear a helmet if I'm going to be sharing the environment intermittently with cars.

I do not wear a helmet if I'll be sharing it with shopping carts.

It's perfectly possible to fall and hit your head on the corner of a shelf and do serious damage, or suffer brain damage from a bad fall onto a store floor.

But I draw my risk threshold between these two points. Cars are dangerous and unpredictable. I know of ZERO bicycle brain-damage events that did not involve an automobile. And zero of any type in stores.

Not a statistically valid sample, but consistent with my decision to draw the line between there.

I find helmets to cause more problems than they solve, in places such as stores, due to their impact on visibility. Not a large impact; I did wear them in stores for a long time, but enough to annoy, as situation awareness is key in preventing not just accidents, but also events that might annoy others.

[Gihgehls]

I wear a helmet if I'm going to be sharing the environment intermittently with cars.

I do not wear a helmet if I'll be sharing it with shopping carts.

It's perfectly possible to fall and hit your head on the corner of a shelf and do serious damage, or suffer brain damage from a bad fall onto a store floor.

But I draw my risk threshold between these two points. Cars are dangerous and unpredictable. I know of ZERO bicycle brain-damage events that did not involve an automobile. And zero of any type in stores.

Not a statistically valid sample, but consistent with my decision to draw the line between there.

I find helmets to cause more problems than they solve, in places such as stores, due to their impact on visibility. Not a large impact; I did wear them in stores for a long time, but enough to annoy, as situation awareness is key in preventing not just accidents, but also events that might annoy others.

Well said, Bob

[KSagal]

<<<
...
Eventually after several years of ownership of a Segway I saw two young kids riding around on electric scooters without helmets. The thought of one of those kids someday getting hurt because of the absence of a helmet and the fear (real or imagined) that I might
bear some responsibility simply because they had seen me riding without a helmet compelled me to get use to the idea of wearing a helmet all the time while bicycling or gliding.


...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy


I believe this is an honorable sentiment.

I don't happen to agree with it, because these are not your kids, and also because kids and adults are different beings. I presume that Bob does not sit in car seats, to set an example. I presume that Bob is willing to drive a car, even though kids in the neighborhood who see him may want to drive one as well.

So, even though I do not agree, I still think it is a valid reason for Bob to want to wear a helmet. I also think it may be a good reason for him to want others to wear one too, if he feels he has a responsibility to demonstrate a good example.

Simply enough, I am glad that the kids that Bob is trying to influence are not able to see me.

And for the record, I too have done things in the neighborhood, trying to be a good example for the neighborhood kids (and my own) who might see me. But not all those things are to do activities as I believe kids should.

[bob yarbrough]

Let's call it risk assessment, let's call it situational awareness. Golly let us all use big words. Call it what you like/want and while common sense may be seem specific, less direct, it is clearly more understandable by many. (IMHO) the exercise of common sense is the basis of both...

risk assessment
and
situational awareness.

Since most of the responses have indicated that they have indeed worn a helmet on occassion.


In my "some helpful tips" which clearly is for new owners and beginner Segway users one is
expected to be inexperienced. As one gains expeerience (and that is best determined by the individual user themselves) a person may indeed choose to not wear a helmet.

I find teir uncomfortableness
at wearing a helmet to be a very flimsy excuse though. If your clothes (shoes, belt, hat, etc) are too tight or loose do you take them off and simply not wear a replacement. If your uncomfortable in your driver seat do you simply not drive. If your work place temperature or work environment is uncomfortble do you simplly do not work.
NO, you exeercise some common sense regarding these situations.



be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY GUY seat

[KSagal]

...

I find teir uncomfortableness
at wearing a helmet to be a very flimsy excuse though. If your clothes (shoes, belt, hat, etc) are too tight or loose do you take them off and simply not wear a replacement. If your uncomfortable in your driver seat do you simply not drive. If your work place temperature or work environment is uncomfortble do you simplly do not work.
NO, you exeercise some common sense regarding these situations.



be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY GUY seat

I believe that a person who says they are uncomfortable wearing a helmet may mean more or different things than exampled above.

A person who finds their helmet to be uncomfortable because it is too tight, should indeed find a bigger helmet.

But if they are uncomfortable in a pedestrian environment, like in a mall, not because the helmet does not fit, but because they feel it is presenting an over reaction to a very small risk in their opinion (back to risk assessment) and when they consider that a running person, or a person carrying bulky packages is more at risk than they, yet those other people are not wearing a helmet, then their discomfort will not be solved by a different size helmet at all.

Yes, a person may say that wearing shoes that make you uncomfortable because they are too small, may choose to wear larger shoes. But, if they are uncomfortable in shoes because they are walking on a warm sunny beach, they may solve their discomfort by removing their shoes. (and not replacing them with larger shoes)

You used the example of being uncomfortable in the driver's seat. If you are uncomfortable there, because children in the neighborhood may see you there, and they cannot drive, you may choose not drive. Much the same as the person who says they were gliding one day without a helmet, and saw children in the neighborhood also riding their conveyances without helmets, and decided to wear one, because it set a better example, and they would have been uncomfortable having been the example that was followed, that led to a child's injury.

So, in response to your question, and comment, that a person who finds clothing too tight should wear other clothing instead of not wearing clothes, I am not in disagreement.

I just do not feel that being uncomfortable in a helmet does not mean it does not fit well.

[bob yarbrough]

You seem to be thinking I'm suggesting a physical change. I'm thinking of it as more in the way of a change in ones perception. Of course this may include a physical change of some kind but the perception may need to be changed first.

This can be far more of a difficult change for some people to make for whatever their personal reasons(or excuses) might be.


be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[Bob.Kerns]

If your work place temperature or work environment is uncomfortble do you simplly do not work.

Not in my universe!

[rotorblades]

lets not give anybody ideas
ssssshushhhhhhhhhhh


I

[KSagal]

lets not give anybody ideas
ssssshushhhhhhhhhhh


I

The ideas are already out there.

The big thing that some people do not seem to get is that you cannot legislate common sense, or good judgement or whatever you want to call it.

The government is not a moral place. It is not full of moral people. It is full of self proclaimed aristocrats who are more concerned with their own legacy and personal wealth and influence than actually living out the constitutional blueprint of a minimalist government.

Many people have forgotten that the United States Constitution is a document that limits the federal government in many ways, and reinforces that the decision making authority lies with citizens, and the government does not have the authority to give people rights. ( But it is full of statements making it unconstitutional for the government to try to take those rights away)

Now, some people do not agree with the constitution or my views that most people if left alone, will make better decisions than the government will legislate. And of course, the reality is that it is pretty much impossible to be left alone.

So, much of the discussion on this thread has been about if people should be allowed to make their own decisions or not, or if some other authority, be it a person or an organization like a government, should make that decision for them.

Again, I am unaware of any law that requires adults to wear helmets on segways. I have asked if anyone knows of one, and got no responses. But others have said that helmets are required in some places. I do know that most tour companies require them, and that is their choice. I support that. I support any individual or business owner the right to do what they feel is best for them. They should make their own assessments, and act upon them, free of other people's requirements.

None of any of this is secret.

I suspect your "shussh" was a joke. I just do not know who you think may not already have this idea...:confused:

[bob yarbrough]

So, much of the discussion on this thread has been about if people should be allowed to make their own decisions or not, or if some other authority, be it a person or an organization like a government, should make that decision for them.
==============



Again I will stand by what I stated in my video. Required is requuire if required as indicated by Karls use of some authorized(?) Segway tours. Law can mean many things, ranging from ones parents laying down the law, to subdivision by-laws, to local community regulations, through various forms of civil government all the way up to a totoal dictorship wether in a country or your local Segway tour or business entity.






Sounds like this thread may have come full circle. Did those protestors who went around tipping over smart car act on their own decisions or were they led/misled by some person or organization. We may never know.

I wish everyone a good day.

be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy