Theft of a Segway / How to keep yours

[GlideMaster]

IF YOU LIVE IN ONE OF THE BIG CITIES IT COULD BE A PROBLEM!!!!!!!!

Well if you live in the big city you lock your Segway up. There is a whole drilled into the wheel specificlly for a Kryptonite cable lock that Segway sells. That may be well and good for New Hampshire but not for the Real World. But,But,But!!!!!!! I would recommend useing the solid U type Krptonite Lock that they use on bikes. They have one called the New York Krptonite Lock. It can take up to 5 tons of pull. The only problem with the U type Krptonite Lock is I think it might be too thick for the wheel lock hole on the Segway. I'm going to call today to see if it would reduce the tensile strength, integrity, handling or ride characteristics of the Segway if the hole were drilled slightly larger? I would think not as long as it's not much bigger, but I'm no engineer. Then I would see if I could pay to have them mill it a little larger.

I know that the Segway i167 weights about 83lbs, but again in Big City USA they can still take it. The way they do it in Big City USA is they drive by in a van or pickup and throw it in the back and take off. It takes as long as it takes to learn to stand on a Segway (about 15 seconds). It's the same way they take lawn mowers and construction tools when people leave them out for a few minutes unattended.

But we do know one thing. If they take it, there's not a DAM thing they can do with it without the key. I'm sure Segway won't be giving out duplicates without a lot of proof of purchase and that's information the thief won't have; unless he's your neighbor.

And Yes I did order one the first hour.

Not trying to scare but just beware.
[}:)][}:)][}:)];)[}:)][}:)];)[}:)]

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

[GlideMaster]

Well guys I checked with Segway Support and found out that the hole for the lock on the Segway is 9/10" or close to 3/4". Plus I put mine in the position (layed it down) and actually removed the rubberized platform cover and measured it (sorry Segway LLC, but that is what the snaps are there for right)? It measured at almost 3/4" at it's smallest point. The hole is an oval shape or elliptical shape. I think that there are some solid U shaped Kryptonite Locks that would fit through the hole and still be wide enough at the bottom of the U to fit around the tire. You'd have to see it to really know what I'm talking about.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segwaw, The Mind Changer</center>

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by weskifm

Well guys I checked with Segway Support and found out that the hole for the lock on the Segway is 9/10" or close to 3/4". Plus I put mine in the position (layed it down) and actually measured it. It measured at almost 3/4" at it's smallest point. The the hole is an oval shape or elliptical shape. I think that there are some solid U shaped Kryptonite Locks that would fit through the hole and still be wide enough at the bottom of the U to fit around the tire. You'd have to see it to really know what I'm talking about.


Most Kryptonite U locks for bikes/motorcycles have a 1/2 inch (13mm) shackle, 4-5 inches wide. Top of the line, 'New York', models are 5/8 inch and run about $75.

Runnin' with the Big Dogs

[GlideMaster]

Hi JohnM,
The only problem that might exist with locking the Segway with one of the numerious models of Kryptonite Locks is the U portion of the lock. Will it be able to make it around the tire and the pole or whatever one is attempting to lock it to. Now I guess I'll have to go to a bike shop and try and find the largest and widest model they have and use a hanger to make a close shape of it. But then there is always the almighty DENVER BOOT. :D[^]

[b]<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

[bicycledriver]

A standard U-lock is designed to fit around a standard parking meter pole but not slip over the meter itself when locked to the bike. This is very useful in areas where closed-loop racks are not available.

I also use my U-lock on a light pole when I park at the town hall for planning and zoning meetings. The pole is just under 3-3/4" in diameter.

Steve Goodridge

[GlideMaster]

Thanks for the info BD. I do have a Kryp. for my bike but the U section will in no way fit on the Segway. It would have to be very wide at the bottom of the U. The pole is by no means the problem.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:Originally posted by bicycledriver

A standard U-lock is designed to fit around a standard parking meter pole but not slip over the meter itself when locked to the bike. This is very useful in areas where closed-loop racks are not available.

I also use my U-lock on a light pole when I park at the town hall for planning and zoning meetings. The pole is just under 3-3/4" in diameter.

Steve Goodridge

[Casey]

The Kryptonite shown on the Segway site is a cable lock. Probably for the reasons you mention.

[n/a]

quote:Originally posted by Casey

The Kryptonite shown on the Segway site is a cable lock. Probably for the reasons you mention.


Didnt Kamen say that a stolen Segway is worthless? So why sell locks?

[GlideMaster]

Thanks Casey, I'm aware of the cable lock sold by Segway. But I've mentioned in other postings that in Big City USA if you use a cable you might as well just tie it to a pole with a piece of string.

Yes Lawrence a Segway is suppose to be useless without the key. But I guess someone out there will still buy extra tires or batteries or whatever.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:Originally posted by Casey

The Kryptonite shown on the Segway site is a cable lock. Probably for the reasons you mention.

[Cube128]

I live in a low-crime area, so a cable would be ok. As well, I already own a high-quality bike cable that should do just fine.

[GlideMaster]

Hi Cube128! I live in a high crime city and a cable is like string.
Population of only 3,000,000 +.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>


quote:Originally posted by Cube128

I live in a low-crime area, so a cable would be ok. As well, I already own a high-quality bike cable that should do just fine.

[Cube128]

I've noticed that on the i and e series, the wheels have spokes. Do these go all the way through the wheel? If so, couldn't you just run the U-lock through them?

[Brooster]

I won't be locking mine anywhere here in Chicago, at least not anytime soon. It's either gonna be in our house, or one of us is gonna be with it at all times.

If we decide to load it up in the car and take it elsewhere, that's a different story. In small town America, you can trust people. In Chicago, we'll have to be judicious and protective. We're not gonna be the first to have ours stolen.


Brooster

[n/a]

quote:Yes Lawrence a Segway is suppose to be useless without the key. But I guess someone out there will still buy extra tires or batteries or whatever.


That reminds me of when I had a moped. The teen age kids love those things. They managed to steal the parts even when it was locked up and parked in an area with a lot of people around.

Weskim, how long might it take for a thief to remove the tires and batteries? What else might a thief want to steal from a Segway?

[GlideMaster]

OK where do I start. The wheels on the i167 that I use has five good size openings and one small (9/10" or almost 3/4") hole for a security lock or cable. The security hole goes through the wheel and the fender without any blockage once they are aligned properly. The large holes are primarily blocked by the fender and the gear box behind that. The fender has no holes on it except for the 6 screw holes that attach the fender to the gearbox and the one security hole. Once again, NO you cannot run the U lock through the wheel and the fender because the width of the U lock IS NOT WIDE ENOUGH... The distance between the two parrale legs of the U must be at least 4 inches more than the radius of the wheel due to the tire and the fender sloping over the tire. Hope you understand what I'm trying to explain without your having a Segway next to you.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>



quote:Originally posted by Cube128

I've noticed that on the i and e series, the wheels have spokes. Do these go all the way through the wheel? If so, couldn't you just run the U-lock through them?

[GlideMaster]

Hello Lawrence!
It's all according to how good your theft team is. Just like NASCAR teams practice pit stops and quick tire changes these guys could do the same. Car thieves do it. There is only one wheel nut that holds the tire/wheel assembly in place. You need a 16mm socket wrench to remove the tire assembly. How long do you think it would take to remove that nut with todays battery operated, rechargable, portable tools? I think two guys could do it in five seconds (5 seconds per wheel). You don't have to lift the Segway off of the ground. Just one pull of the trigger on a good strong portable wrench should get the nut off I would think. Then Segway recommends in it's Participant Workbook to "Remove wheel by tapping inside of wheel with plastic or rubber mallet."
Then if you have time and no one is coming then you " 1. Tip Segway HT to expose bottom of chassis and use 3mm hex wrench to remove screws (4 per battery pack). 2. Pull battery packs straight off chassis. 3. Seat new battery packs on chassis with curved edge facing outside of chassis. 4. Thread in M4 x 0.7 x16 socket head cap 3mm hex screws (4 per battery pack) and torque to 0.5 N-m. 5. Perform post-repair check (See Post-repair Checklist page)."

Well if I were a thief I would not take the time to remove the parts there on the spot. I would just drive by in my pickup or van with a friend and my trusty cable cutters if needed and cut the cable and lift it into my pickup or van and ADIOS. That way I would have time to take it someplace for proper disassembly.

What else might a thief want from a Segway. Hummm! Here is a partial parts list so you can go shopping.

Handlebar and Display along with steering grip, Control Shaft with height adjustment collar and control shaft base, rider detect platform, motors, gearboxes, battery packs, charge port and indicators, controller boards, balance sensor assembly, fenders, parking stand and wheels and tires.

Oh! And by the way, that will just coast you $500.00 USC for all those parts. Why so cheap? Because I need to go get my "fix" to hold me over for a few hours before I steal another Segway for parts so I can get another "fix."

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:That reminds me of when I had a moped. The teen age kids love those things. They managed to steal the parts even when it was locked up and parked in an area with a lot of people around.

Weskim, how long might it take for a thief to remove the tires and batteries? What else might a thief want to steal from a Segway?

[Cube128]

would this work?

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/articles/2790/130215-l.gif

1/2 in. thick, 9 in. long, 5 in. wide. Sounds just big enough to fit through the security hole and still reach around the wheel

[n/a]

Thanks for that thorough reply Weskim. The conclusion seems to be that even if u have a theft proof lock for Segways the Segway chasis, as long as someone can get to them, they will have parts worth stealing and they will be easily strippable. The solution then would be to either take them inside with u or lock them up inside of secure containers. There might be some other solutions though...

In the Segway patents, they mentioned proximity sensors. Perhaps if the Segways had proximity sensors that could detect when somebody came very near it or moved it, it activiate a burgular alarm.

I wonder if Segway LLC has taken the burglary problem too lightly by stating that there is nothing to worry about because a Segway is useless without the keys.

[Casey]

My new Millenia has a sophisticated alarm system as well as a special type of key that you can't get duplicated at normal locksmith shops. I would still not consider it theftproof by any means.

Anyone who does has not been paying attention to auto theft statistics.

[GlideMaster]

Nice try Cube. I've seen that one also and it still is not wide enough. To make you're work a little easier, I don't think they make one wide enough. I would have to measure the radius of the wheel, add a few inches for the tire and a couple for the fender and then we might have a winner. I would say (JUST GUESSING) it would have to be about 10 inches wide. I also have another very good idea but I would have to talk to the Kryptonite people or apply for a patent.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>


quote:Originally posted by Cube128

would this work?

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/articles/2790/130215-l.gif

1/2 in. thick, 9 in. long, 5 in. wide. Sounds just big enough to fit through the security hole and still reach around the wheel

[GlideMaster]

Lawrence all you can ever really do is make it difficult for a thief. Because if they want it bad enough they will find a way to get it. You can lock it to a parking meter with a Kryptonite lock and they might find a way to get the head off of the meter and lift the Segway over the pole. Or if they are really bold, they might follow you home and see where you live and wait for the day that you leave without your Segway and I know you can figure the rest. We know they will never be able to start it but they might go for the parts once there are a lot of them out on the streets.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

Thanks for that thorough reply Weskim. The conclusion seems to be that even if u have a theft proof lock for Segways the Segway chasis, as long as someone can get to them, they will have parts worth stealing and they will be easily strippable. The solution then would be to either take them inside with u or lock them up inside of secure containers. There might be some other solutions though...

In the Segway patents, they mentioned proximity sensors. Perhaps if the Segways had proximity sensors that could detect when somebody came very near it or moved it, it activiate a burgular alarm.

I wonder if Segway LLC has taken the burglary problem too lightly by stating that there is nothing to worry about because a Segway is useless without the keys.

[BruceWright]

Yes, your lock is only as strong as the thing it's locked to.

I plan to ride mine everywhere. If a store does not let me in with the thing, I won't shop in that store. This will be easier with the personal model, I can't see them letting the big suv version in stores.

I wouldn't put it past any area, crime or no, to be a safe place to park a segway during the initial "wow" phase.

[Brooster]

Hi Bruce ... welcome to the board.

I'm a bit confused about your post about the "personal model." If you've bought one, it's the i-Series ... the big one ... which is the one to have anyway, in my opinion. The smaller "p-Series" seems to be on the back burner for now.

As for riding into stores, I wouldn't necessarily count on that being okay. Personally, I'm just gonna "play it by ear" and see what happens. The rules are unwritten. And it'll be up to us "early adopters" to make sure that Segway's integration in society goes smoothly. In effect, we'll all be representatives for Segway LLC and this new technology.

Best wishes and Happy Thanksgiving,
Broo

Brooster

[GlideMaster]

Hi Brooster,
I agree with you on this one 100%. I don't think many stores are going to allow you to bring a Segway inside. It might be akin to having a bull in a china shop. Plus, you need to learn to manuver the Segway pretty good to go through doors without anyone holding them for you. The best deal if you have to go in a store is to dock it and lock it.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:Originally posted by Brooster

Hi Bruce ... welcome to the board.

I'm a bit confused about your post about the "personal model." If you've bought one, it's the i-Series ... the big one ... which is the one to have anyway, in my opinion. The smaller "p-Series" seems to be on the back burner for now.

As for riding into stores, I wouldn't necessarily count on that being okay. Personally, I'm just gonna "play it by ear" and see what happens. The rules are unwritten. And it'll be up to us "early adopters" to make sure that Segway's integration in society goes smoothly. In effect, we'll all be representatives for Segway LLC and this new technology.

Best wishes and Happy Thanksgiving,
Broo

Brooster

[n/a]

quote:I'm just gonna "play it by ear" and see what happens. The rules are unwritten. And it'll be up to us "early adopters" to make sure that Segway's integration in society goes smoothly.

If I was an early adapter, and owned the first Segway in my neighbourhood, I would be particularly concerned about theft. I would never want to leave it out in the street and risk having it stolen, stripped or vandalized. I would do my best get it inside any building so that I could keep an eye on it even if it tracked some extra dirt or mud inside. That could lead to friction with shop owners and others. So it may not be an easy role to be both an early adapter and Segway representative unless u live and work in a theft free environment or have an adequate insurance policy. But even if your Segway is insured for theft, u will be very unhappy about it getting stolen.

Another thing, I hope the early adapters dont encounter any "keep the Segways off the sidewalks" activists.

[BruceWright]

Hello everybody (great site, btw. Finally a MODERATED site).

I haven't ordered it yet, mostly because of the price, and partly because I did want the P-series.

Also, I haven't ridden one yet, and purchasing a $5000 item without riding it is extreme, even for me.

When segway gets their act together and actually has dealerships, I may be more inclined.

I was sold by shots of the Segway people riding the P-series inside elevators. I don't think it will be too hard to maneuver those smaller ones any flat place I could walk. Grocery stores have automatic doors, anyway!

I agree about we early adopters (If I DO adopt) being ambassadors and having to be sure we are super careful and set a good example. I also think that images speak for themselves. I saw segways being used in shoulder-to-shoulder crowds of families with children (at Disneyland) and they were as safe as a pedestrian. I know that device would be perfectly safe in a supermarket.

Now the i-series, just the size would probably startle the help, and get the manager to kick me out. The p- might not.

If the P is indeed on the back burner, and more than a year away, I will be sad. But it seems like Kamen overpromised, if that is the case. It is a sad thing to promise to change the world, one rich person at a time (please allow 6-10 months for delivery).

[n/a]

quote:If the P is indeed on the back burner, and more than a year away, I will be sad. But it seems like Kamen overpromised, if that is the case. It is a sad thing to promise to change the world, one rich person at a time (please allow 6-10 months for delivery).

Welcome Bruce. I dont recall Kamen making promises, but we did have a lot of hopes/expectations that are hard to fullfill.

[Blinky]

BruceWright writes(by the seashore), &lt;--- tongue twister ;)
quote:If the P is indeed on the back burner, and more than a year away, I will be sad. But it seems like Kamen overpromised, if that is the case. It is a sad thing to promise to change the world, one rich person at a time (please allow 6-10 months for delivery).
I think you make a good point about the fact that the 'P' series was one of the models that everyone was looking forward towards. I think there has to be an issue here and there for the reasoning that Segway LLC has not made then available. Could it be its smaller size and weight that makes it a little more unsafe than the bigger versions('E' and 'I'). An explanation about this is bound to come out eventually.

I think the lengthy time period between ordering one and actually getting one has to do with, in my opinion, the fact that Segway LLC is still getting state approval and will most likely(I'll look so smart if I'm right) get it done before they start shipping them out to the consumers.

Although I am sure if you have the right money and connections you can easily have gotten a Segway yesterday.

[BruceWright]

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

Welcome Bruce. I dont recall Kamen making promises, but we did have a lot of hopes/expectations that are hard to fullfill.


I'm not talking about the "bigger than the internet" comments made by others. I'm talking about the promise of a new world, a new way of thinking about transportation that was very much from Kamen himself. I'm talking about saying things like:

quote:
"Ultimately, the Segway HT can make urban environments more livable by
providing a solution to short-distance travel. If the Segway HT is widely adopted, it could help solve major urban problems, such as pollution, congestion and livability."


That's the kind of promise I'm talking about. Pollution, congestion and livability isn't going to change when the Segway is an expensive, internet-order only, buy it sight-unseen, wait 6-10 months for delivery toy for the early adopter crowd. I'll just buy my Ford th!nk at the local dealership and be done with it!

This is where it seemed they overpromised. It seems like they couldn't manufacture enough of these devices in the 15 months between unveiling and first public shipments to put dealerships in place. They couldn't bring next-year's deliveries down at all in price from the commercial versions that have been available this year. They couldn't bring the p-series to market.

My thing is, WHY show the P-series? Why promise eventual price-point around $2000? Why talk at all about an eventual consumer item, if it wasn't in their ability to actually deliver within a year? Why not just unveil the bigger ones and say, "This invention is for companies and armies and postal employees only. One day, maybe for consumers, but that's a-ways out."?

That's why I'm sad. Kamen practically promised Segways under our trees this year for around $2000. Now we know that for most, it will be $5000 and Christmas 2003.

[n/a]

quote:My thing is, WHY show the P-series? Why promise eventual price-point around $2000? Why talk at all about an eventual consumer item, if it wasn't in their ability to actually deliver within a year? Why not just unveil the bigger ones and say, "This invention is for companies and armies and postal employees only. One day, maybe for consumers, but that's a-ways out."?

Bruce, having followed the saga rather closely, I have always been frustrated with the discrepancies about what has been reported regarding Segways. Prices, release times, etc. have varied considerably. It is understandable that there is confusion about these things. I figure that bringing a new type of product to market is not like introducing a new model car. There are a great many variables.

quote:
That's why I'm sad. Kamen practically promised Segways under our trees this year for around $2000. Now we know that for most, it will be $5000 and Christmas 2003.

I am not sure about this either. I am still hoping that the price on the i series will go down next year and that the P-series might be available next year. What makes me sad is the the announcement not to expect a price fall on the Segways. I hope they clear that up soon.

I see that I have derailed the thread. It is supposed to be about theft of a Segway. Sorry weskifm.

[GlideMaster]

Hi BruceWright, I have to disagree with you. I don't recall Kamen making the kind of promises you mention. But, like Lawrence said a lot of people "did have a lot of hopes/expectations that are hard to fullfill." In the quote you mention it states "Ultimately, the Segway HT can make urban environments more livable by providing a solution to short-distance travel." The operative word here is CAN.
CAN meaning to indicate possibility or probability not a vow, covenant, pledge or guarantee to do so.

As far as a consumer model, for all we know they may be tooling up for production some time next year. Manufacturing a product like the Segway is no easy task. They may be able to build the i and e series on the same production line but may need a separate line to build the smaller consumer version. This could require an increase in work force and training for that work force. Not to mention the special tools and dies that would need to be produced. Possibly even another building and additional parts suppliers. Who knows, they may not have enough people to fill their work force needs in there small town.

There will be Segways under thirty Christmas trees this year. I'd have to say thirty is better than none. But that lets me know that more are on the way soon. But I guess it's easy for me to speak because I ride a few times a week. But it's not mine. Once you ride the i167 series Segway I don't think you will want the consumer model...


<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly
Segway, The Mind Changer</center>




quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

Welcome Bruce. I dont recall Kamen making promises, but we did have a lot of hopes/expectations that are hard to fullfill.


I'm not talking about the "bigger than the internet" comments made by others. I'm talking about the promise of a new world, a new way of thinking about transportation that was very much from Kamen himself. I'm talking about saying things like:

quote:
"Ultimately, the Segway HT can make urban environments more livable by
providing a solution to short-distance travel. If the Segway HT is widely adopted, it could help solve major urban problems, such as pollution, congestion and livability."


That's the kind of promise I'm talking about. Pollution, congestion and livability isn't going to change when the Segway is an expensive, internet-order only, buy it sight-unseen, wait 6-10 months for delivery toy for the early adopter crowd. I'll just buy my Ford th!nk at the local dealership and be done with it!

This is where it seemed they overpromised. It seems like they couldn't manufacture enough of these devices in the 15 months between unveiling and first public shipments to put dealerships in place. They couldn't bring next-year's deliveries down at all in price from the commercial versions that have been available this year. They couldn't bring the p-series to market.

My thing is, WHY show the P-series? Why promise eventual price-point around $2000? Why talk at all about an eventual consumer item, if it wasn't in their ability to actually deliver within a year? Why not just unveil the bigger ones and say, "This invention is for companies and armies and postal employees only. One day, maybe for consumers, but that's a-ways out."?

That's why I'm sad. Kamen practically promised Segways under our trees this year for around $2000. Now we know that for most, it will be $5000 and Christmas 2003.

[BruceWright]

quote:Originally posted by weskifm

The operative word here is CAN.
CAN meaning to indicate possibility or probability not a vow, covenant, pledge or guarantee to do so.


If we're pulling out dictionaries here (mine is bigger), you left out two of the definitions of promise.


quote:
2.Indication of something favorable to come; expectation: a promise of spring in the air.
3.Indication of future excellence or success: a player of great promise.


It is there where the promise of Segway lies. Kamen didn't vow to change the world. But he did say that the Segway holds the promise of a changed world.

I say it cannot do that in the hands of the rich or the few.



(And yes, this topic has been stolen. We should have locked it with a Kryptonight lock!)

[GlideMaster]

OK BruceWright,
What ever you say. Because of who and what I am I'm forced to live in the real world. I'm sure I've been in it a lot longer than 98% of the people on this site. I guess thats why my attitude is a little different. Then too I guess the fact that I get to ride often makes me see things in a different light.

By the way when you use the Kryptonite use the New York version.

You can steal the site all you want and change the subject all you want, no lock needed it's a free country.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

quote:Originally posted by weskifm

The operative word here is CAN.
CAN meaning to indicate possibility or probability not a vow, covenant, pledge or guarantee to do so.


If we're pulling out dictionaries here (mine is bigger), you left out two of the definitions of promise.


quote:
2.Indication of something favorable to come; expectation: a promise of spring in the air.
3.Indication of future excellence or success: a player of great promise.


It is there where the promise of Segway lies. Kamen didn't vow to change the world. But he did say that the Segway holds the promise of a changed world.

I say it cannot do that in the hands of the rich or the few.



(And yes, this topic has been stolen. We should have locked it with a Kryptonight lock!)

[Blinky]

Weskifm writes,
quote:By the way when you use the Kryptonite use the New York version.
Hey! I hope the NY version of the lock doesn't mean it comes with the territory.

As far as I know I don't think Kamen ever promised to do anything for the world. He takes a problem and finds the solution for it. If his inventions happen to help mankind as we know it, then fine.

To stay on topic, perhaps he should invent a lock a little better than the 'Kryptonite' that would be nearly impossible to cut through. That would be something we all can use. For bikes,scooters,segways etc.

[GlideMaster]

Hi Blinky,
I am by no means knocking the King of Balance, but I feel they could provide a lock that could be of use to Segway owners that would make it very difficult to steal in a general city setting. Yes I know they did provide us with a security hole and have a Kryptonite cable lock. But believe me as I've said numerious times, a cable in Big City USA will never due.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>


quote:Originally posted by Blinky

Weskifm writes,
quote:By the way when you use the Kryptonite use the New York version.
Hey! I hope the NY version of the lock doesn't mean it comes with the territory.

As far as I know I don't think Kamen ever promised to do anything for the world. He takes a problem and finds the solution for it. If his inventions happen to help mankind as we know it, then fine.

To stay on topic, perhaps he should invent a lock a little better than the 'Kryptonite' that would be nearly impossible to cut through. That would be something we all can use. For bikes,scooters,segways etc.

[BruceWright]

quote:Originally posted by Blinky



As far as I know I don't think Kamen ever promised to do anything for the world. He takes a problem and finds the solution for it. If his inventions happen to help mankind as we know it, then fine.

Well, besides his quote about about pollution, congestion and liviability, Kamen also says he wants to solve the three main problems of the third world (clean energy, clean transportation, clean water) with another one of his inventions. He doesn't just invent a scooter or an engine, he thinks they CAN solve the big problems of the world.

Segway isn't selling a $5,000 scooter. They are selling an idea. $5000 is insanely too much to pay for a motorized skateboard, but a small price to pay to make the urban environment a cleaner, more open, safer place. Otherwise, why the speeches?

Is it really your contention that when asked about his invention, Kamen replies "Oh, I don't know. It's a fun little scooter, do with it what you will. I have no real aspiration for it, perhaps it will sell well. We hope to have a purple model soon, with a cup-holder."?

No way! Ask Kamen about his scooter and he'll blow your mind with a three-hour sermon of an all-clean-energy utopia with white-picket fences and families with dogs, commutting cleanly along city green-ways. Parks and civic spaces reclaimed, neighborhoods revitalized because person-to-person interface is no longer blocked by windshields and 3 tons of steel. A bright, shiny future where the disabled speak to us from eye-level, and climb stairs with ease, while the able-bodied drag their segway behind them in follow-me mode, thump thump thump. A clean, green future where we have no fear of third-world fanaticism because every Segway purchase subsidizes a cheap Sterling engine for the 2.4 billion people with no access to clean water, power and transportation (food, education and medicine to come soon!).

When, WHEN has Kamen ever demurred from telling how his inventions will change the world? His long-windedness is legendary!

Oh, that's right, CAN, not WILL.

Because the other part of that bargain is "this will change the world, but only if everyone BUYS one of these things."

Now I agree with Kamen and his motives. But the hubris is there, and also clear. There is a sense of perverse consumerism behind the Segway phenomenon as well, and that cannot be productive for the future of mankind. I think for the future's sake, my $5000 would be better spent sent to the World Wildlife Fund. And that's where the environmental message falls apart.

Now the "Segway is just plain fun" argument is the one that resonates with me. That's why I want one, and that's why I think they're cool. I do think that personally, it will make me more interactive in the neighborhood. And all of that is to the good. But that doesn't address "congestion, pollution and urban livability", which, quite frankly, was a bit much to put in the press-release for the product launch.

[Blinky]

quote:When, WHEN has Kamen ever demurred from telling how his inventions will change the world? His long-windedness is legendary!
There is no doubt that Kamen invents to help the world. He can only hype up his inventions like any other inventor and see how many of them he can sell. The man is a also part businessman. You would do the same if you spent a lot of time on something and wanted to make a little cash.

Who in this world invents something only to give it out for free. Nobody.

[BruceWright]

quote:Originally posted by Blinky

quote]
Who in this world invents something only to give it out for free. Nobody.


Linus Torvalds.

[ftropea]

Bruce,

Good points. Basically I agree with you...

Before we see any of this environmental & social impact, people are going to have to start buying these transporters in appreciable numbers... and that ain't going to happen unless the price comes down. I'm not sure what the price point is, but it's definitely not $5,000. However, that being said - I don't have a problem with the current sales approach...

This is the way I see it. Kamen and Co. currently have 2 production ready models.. the I and E series. They were determined to go to the industrial market first while they worked on state sidewalk legislation... As they did some beta tests and worked out manufacturing issues, they've been working on a consumer model - the "p series". We've been hearing that we won't see the "p series" until 2003 - sometime during the summer perhaps (various sources reported this.)

However, at this point - now that they're ready to exercise their manufacturing legs, they decided to offer anyone who wanted one - a chance to buy the "i series", the less industrial of the 2, to consumers. That doesn't mean they expect the average Joe to buy one... but they put it out there and gave the enthusiasts and rich kids a chance to be the first on the block. Nothing wrong with that... In fact, if they hadn't done that, it would have been a fair question to ask why you couldn't buy an "i series" for personal use.. why you had to have a business purpose.

Now you don't need a business purpose. That's the only difference.

And they don't hurt anyone... plus they give you a chance to own one now... plus they get to continue working on the "p series" and work out their manufacturing legs.

It's a win for them... it's a bonus for you... plus it sets the stage for a "p series" for the rest of us this summer - or whenever they decide to release/sell it.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

[JohnG]

Segway never said what particular model would be available when. And indeed the i Series does easily fit through doorways, on elevators, etc.

[GlideMaster]

Hi J, it's been awhile. I've mentioned several times to the members of the site that I've ridden the Segway on elevators and it's never been a problem. I've also ridden in a hotel and hotel cafeteria, aquarium, a parking garage with steep ramps and of course through doorways and a hundred other places and conditions. Never had a problem yet. If we keep this snow here (Chicago) a few days I'll ride it in the snow.

I've also tried to explain that a lot of the things people say were promised by Segway were just a part of the individuals own wishes and expectations.

Thanks for your continued info and support.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:Originally posted by jgrohol

Segway never said what particular model would be available when. And indeed the i Series does easily fit through doorways, on elevators, etc.

[GlideMaster]

Sorry, but the Topic of Theft still lives.
Another method that might help to deter people from buying stolen parts from a stolen Segway might be by branding. There are places that can make you various size irons with your initials or your own logo, symbol or what ever on the iron. This is heated and pressed into the plastic. On the metal parts you can use an electric type etcher to write your name on the metal parts or get a metal stencil made with your signature and just trace it with the etching device.

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

[Brooster]

Weskifm, one advantage to your idea of a custom paint job would be that it would be instantly identifiable ... that's for sure! :)

Brooster

[Blinky]

If you paint the Segway with invisible paint, you will never have to worry about it getting stolen if you can't see it.

Seriously, I would paint it the same colors of my favorite team, the Bronx Bombers from here in NY! Home jersey of course..

[GlideMaster]

Brooster that's my point exactly.

And Blinky, who are the Bronx Bombers and what are there colors? Do they or could they play there sport on Segways?

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

[Blinky]

Weskifm, that team would be the Yanks. Dark blue and white. Maybe some stripes on the Segway shaft too.

[GlideMaster]

Thanks Blinky, sounds like you've already made up your mind to customize yours when that lucky day comes. Happy TG

<center>REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>



quote:Originally posted by Blinky

Weskifm, that team would be the Yanks. Dark blue and white. Maybe some stripes on the Segway shaft too.

[GlideMaster]

Well pt and lookforward here is the topic on the Theft of a Segway / How to keep yours. If you go back in time you will probably find that we have covered just about everything you can think of for The World of Seg.

<center>Have Seg Will Travel

REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

[hodgepoj]

quote:Originally posted by weskifm

There is a whole drilled into the wheel specificlly for a Kryptonite cable lock that Segway sells.


What are Kyrptonite locks made of? I went to their web site but they designed it with yellow type on a white background and I can't read it.

Dr. Paul O. Johnson
Senior Exhibit Developer
The Science Place
Dallas, Texas 75210

[pt]

quote:Originally posted by hodgepojWhat are Kyrptonite locks made of? I went to their web site but they designed it with yellow type on a white background and I can't read it.

Model: KryptoCable IV
3/8" (10 mm) diameter self-coiling cable
Weatherproof
6' x 3/8" (180cm x 10mm)
Limited Lifetime Warranty

it's vinyl covered steel cable.

i'm trying out some other brands and models, like the abus chain lock, i think i like that the best so far, i'll something posted about that soon.

cheers,
pt

http://www.bookofseg.com

[lookforward]

interesting. the consensus seems to be, in a big city (I'm here in L.A.), ain't no cable or lock mechanism I'm going to trust to protect my new baby :-) as many have pointed out, the whole "the keys are encoded" is such a red herring; besides, how do the thiefs know about encoded keys, anyhow? (are they reading this message board and following segway developments, too? &lt;g&gt;)

"lookforward" in Los Angeles, California
...a crowded metropolis begging for better transportation options

[hodgepoj]

quote:Originally posted by pt

What are Kyrptonite locks made of?

Model: KryptoCable IV
3/8" (10 mm) diameter self-coiling cable
Weatherproof
6' x 3/8" (180cm x 10mm)
Limited Lifetime Warranty

it's vinyl covered steel cable.


So the answer is they're made of steel. But there are hundreds of kinds of steel, some much harder to cut or saw through than others. I was just wondering why, if at all, this particular brand of lock was better than competing brands.

Dr. Paul O. Johnson
Senior Exhibit Developer
The Science Place
Dallas, Texas 75210

[pt]

quote:Originally posted by hodgepoj
So the answer is they're made of steel. But there are hundreds of kinds of steel, some much harder to cut or saw through than others. I was just wondering why, if at all, this particular brand of lock was better than competing brands.

i don't think it really matter, it's more likely brand loyalty. i'm trying them all out and posting results soon.

cheers,
pt

http://www.bookofseg.com

[GlideMaster]

Lookforward just do what you have to do to protect your baby so you don't have to walk back.:) Enjoy the Glide!

<center>Ahhh The World of Seg, and a good world it is.

Have Seg Will Travel

REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>


quote:Originally posted by lookforward

interesting. the consensus seems to be, in a big city (I'm here in L.A.), ain't no cable or lock mechanism I'm going to trust to protect my new baby :-) as many have pointed out, the whole "the keys are encoded" is such a red herring; besides, how do the thiefs know about encoded keys, anyhow? (are they reading this message board and following segway developments, too? &lt;g&gt;)

"lookforward" in Los Angeles, California
...a crowded metropolis begging for better transportation options

[RobbW]

Lookforward,

As I also live near Los Angeles and plan to use it to commute from the Metrolink at 7th and Grand (Downtown), the thought also occured to me as to how I'm going to keep it from getting stolen...while I'm ON IT. ;)

RobbW (broadcasting live from the 90210 portion of scenic Santa Clarita, CA)

[Carl]

quote:Originally posted by Brooster

As for riding into stores, I wouldn't necessarily count on that being okay. Personally, I'm just gonna "play it by ear" and see what happens. The rules are unwritten. And it'll be up to us "early adopters" to make sure that Segway's integration in society goes smoothly. In effect, we'll all be representatives for Segway LLC and this new technology.


I don't plan to leave my Segway outside until I see a few others locked up outside and not stolen. Until then, I'll only take it places where I can leave it inside.

There's only a few stores that I visit regularly (one grocery store, two bookstores, and one computer game store). I plan to call them up, ask for a manager, and ask for permission to ride the Segway in the store. If they don't just say yes,.I'll ask for an appointment to demonstrate that I can ride it around the store safely. At the appointment, I'll let the manager ride it; with any luck, he'll be so stunned that he'll say yes immediately.

If I still don't get permission to ride in the store, I'll ask for permission to leave the Segway behind the checkout desk.

Of course, all this assumes that it really IS safe to ride a Segway while shopping. For those of you who have ridden a Segway, what do you think? Would you be willing to take a Segway into a bookstore or grocery store with you? If so, would you ride it around, or push/pull it? Can you safely reach down to get something off a bottom shelf while riding a Segway?

[GlideMaster]

Hi Carl, another method that might help to deter people from stealing a Segway might be by branding. There are places that can make you various size irons with your initials or your own logo, symbol or what ever on the iron. This is heated and pressed into the plastic. On the metal parts you can use an electric type etcher to write your name on the metal parts or get a metal stencil made with your signature and just trace it with the etching device. I know here in Chicago they have places that etch vehicle vin numbers onto all the windows of an automobile. I'm quite sure you can etch the serial number of the Seg on to most of the visible parts and if you want to take it apart you could do the internal parts. OK disregard the internal parts. Enjoy The Glide.

<center>Ahhh The World of Seg, and a good world it is.

Have Seg Will Travel

REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:Originally posted by Carl

quote:Originally posted by Brooster

As for riding into stores, I wouldn't necessarily count on that being okay. Personally, I'm just gonna "play it by ear" and see what happens. The rules are unwritten. And it'll be up to us "early adopters" to make sure that Segway's integration in society goes smoothly. In effect, we'll all be representatives for Segway LLC and this new technology.


I don't plan to leave my Segway outside until I see a few others locked up outside and not stolen. Until then, I'll only take it places where I can leave it inside.

There's only a few stores that I visit regularly (one grocery store, two bookstores, and one computer game store). I plan to call them up, ask for a manager, and ask for permission to ride the Segway in the store. If they don't just say yes,.I'll ask for an appointment to demonstrate that I can ride it around the store safely. At the appointment, I'll let the manager ride it; with any luck, he'll be so stunned that he'll say yes immediately.

If I still don't get permission to ride in the store, I'll ask for permission to leave the Segway behind the checkout desk.

Of course, all this assumes that it really IS safe to ride a Segway while shopping. For those of you who have ridden a Segway, what do you think? Would you be willing to take a Segway into a bookstore or grocery store with you? If so, would you ride it around, or push/pull it? Can you safely reach down to get something off a bottom shelf while riding a Segway?

[GlideMaster]

Well RobbW, by "getting stolen while you're on it" I take it you mean Seg Jacked "(like car jacked)"? If that's what you mean there is always pepper spray, mace, stun guns and OTHER self defense weapons. If none of these alternatives appeal to you I suggest you just give it up and wear gym shoes at all times just in case. Enjoy The Glide

<center>Ahhh The World of Seg, and a good world it is.

Have Seg Will Travel

REMEMBER:
Responsible Riders Ride Segway
and
Segway Riders Ride Responsibly

Segway, The Mind Changer</center>

quote:Originally posted by RobbW

Lookforward,

As I also live near Los Angeles and plan to use it to commute from the Metrolink at 7th and Grand (Downtown), the thought also occured to me as to how I'm going to keep it from getting stolen...while I'm ON IT. ;)

RobbW (broadcasting live from the 90210 portion of scenic Santa Clarita, CA)

[lookforward]

hey RobbW, yeah, keep an eye out in that downtown metrolink station, yikes ...the metrolink always seems safe to me and very clean, but I've also never ever seen police on the trains.

carl, LOVE the idea of calling the managers of places you frequent to get permission to ride in their stores. great, great way to be a "Good Segway Ambassador" and also to take care of the problem before it is even a problem. insipiring & I'll do the same.

now if I could just get that call back telling me they loved my essay and want to invite me to NH for the holidays... :-)

"lookforward" in Los Angeles, California
...a crowded metropolis begging for better transportation options

[RedKey]

Not much discussion about alarms for the Segway.

I would feel much better if an alarm would sound if anyone touched/moved the unit. If I attach a Defcon alarm, any small movement will trigger a +-100db alarm. Might not be enough to scare away the NY thiefs, but the combination of the alarm to draw attention and a cable lock to slow them down, would make me feel much better leaving it unattanded.

I plan to order a Defcon 1 or Defcon 3 from Targus:
http://www.targus.com/product_details.asp?sku=CQ400U
(not sure where info for Defcon 3 is on their site, maybe discontinued?)

BTW- The Krptonite model Segway sells is "KC IV" (Kryptocable IV).

[JosephM]

That's not a bad idea. But what would be better if that if someone tampered with the lock without the key, then it'll go off.

Visit our FIRST Help Boards at http://tucker.helix-designs.com//index.php !!