jack & andrew strike again...

[pt]

andrew strikes again...i was morbidly fascinated with the topic of rentals since my city enacated a park ban citing concern of rentals, so seeing one rental process filmed and the results through "andrew the segway monster" from canada who rented from jack (http://www.fhtsc.com) has been, well....i don't how to describe it, here's a link to andrew's 30mb video on his site:

*i had a link here, then i decided not to post the link, then the site died, so it doesn't matter, if that changes someone will post up a new link i'm sure.

what i saw:
-this is at a beach and a public park, this park has stated no segways were allowed.
-these fellows were in fact trying to make the ht fall over, a couple kinda violent looking too. yikes, the video (they manage to in front a man playing the violin on a bench on a trail). is this not "testing the limits in training" it's in the park being unsafe and showing off for camera.
-no hands one foot attempts right next to a jogger, almost falls.
-the roll all over, right past a "pedestrian only sign" a little mocking there.
-using the ht fast next to people.
-the camera man was on a ht the entire time as well, so that means one hand.
-looks like a kickstand broke.
-segways are not allowed to be used anywhere legally in canada yet, no matter what jack says is "light grey" sorry.
-in general, very unsafe riders. all these folks at the park exposed to these folks who rented the hts, what do you think they think about the ht?

this is the *2nd time* they rented, first time no safety video- and at another park, jack met them there with his van as per andrew.

this is why my city freaked and banned segways from the parks, to avoid something like this, right or wrong that's what happened.

i've done the best i could with this and posted as i went along- in the last week jack did update his site, has new processes and i'm really sure he's being a bit safer after seeing this over and over for the last week, if you're in canada, act locally-- talk to jack.

cheers,
pt

[pt]

btw, you can reach jack here, i've mailed him again:

Jack Cook
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Segway Rentals
Future Human Transport Solutions Company Inc
1701 Fir Street, Vancouver, BC, V6J-5J9
Ph: 604-734-9280
eMail: Info@FHTSC.com
www.SegwayBC.com


======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[philphil]

Where's Andrew's site?

-Phil
http://philphil.tk
Segway LiveJournal Community (http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=segway)

[hubbahbubbah]

The video pt is talking about can be downloaded here:

http://www.mellenger.com/weblog/



Hubbah

p.s. the site seems to be swamped at the moment

::: http://stinkyshorts.blogspot.com :::

[dhugger]

I haven't been able to download the vid... and I've been trying for nearly 3 hours now... anyone posted the video on their website? Or is there any other link?

-Derek Hugger-

[hubbahbubbah]

The video seems to be available again and I finally watched it.

I urge everyone to watch it for themselves. In my opinion, it is not nearly as bad as pt says... Yes, there are several instances of poor judgement, but mostly it's a bunch of kids that are... yes, testing the limits of their Segways (and sometimes finding them.)
the music accompanying the video is a bit menacing, that i'll grant.

Hubbah

p.s. I'm sure it's also not a good representation of what actually happened, as likely the most 'harrowing' moments were chosen for inclusion in the video.

::: http://stinkyshorts.blogspot.com :::

[pam]

I guess I'm confused. Why is Andrew trying to make it all look so bad? I thought he was concerned because Jack was mad about the first video. Why would he put another video up with MORE of the same stuff? Or am I missing something here?
Pam

[AtlSeg]

Hmmmm... I think I have to agree with Hubbah here. I don't think it looked nearly as bad as PT's description. But it was some guys showing off (apparently) for the camera. Not too bright. But then, we have other SC members who glide "no hands" and I seem to recall a newspaper article posted here with someone posing (I think) "no hands" and balancing on one foot. Granted, not in motion (I think), but still sends a message.

In this instance, I think the responsible thing would be for Jack not to rent to these guys again.

Dick (Richard) in Atlanta

[statmed]

I think the video showed how durable our Segways are. If they can take that abuse, ours should last a long, long time.!


H.M. Stern
statmed@optonline.net

I Love It When A Plan Comes Together (Hannibal Smith)

[dhugger]

Well, I finally watched it... and I'm disgusted. PT is right. Those are the kind of people that will get the HT banned. I'm just glad nobody was hurt with some of the things they were doing. And Jack didn't exactly limit them to the black key either [V]

-Derek Hugger-

[mellenger]

I took the video down so everyone can just cool it.

This was before I knew that anyone had seen the first video and I was in blissful anonymity. I’m trying hard to believe that segways are just a new form of transportation and can replace a second car but I can’t. They are just too much fun and go too slow to really be useful for transportation. So that leaves recreation, and for that I think they are so much fun. Has anyone tried Segway Polo? Wow that would be a lot of fun. And the patent drawing with the single wheel, wow.

Riding no hands is really easy and natural, I’m sure most owners have done it. Holding a video camera with your right hand and steering with your left works well too… almost as if they designed the steering grip on the left side for a reason. I’m sure there is a model without a handlebar in the works, it’s too natural of a progression to ignore.

I think Segways were designed and marketed with this higher utopian purpose to rid the world of pollution etc. but they ended up, for the meantime anyways, and really fun toys that give you a new experience. And if that is all they ever are that is still an amazing accomplishment.

If pt really cared so much about bad press hurting the public’s acceptance of segways then he shouldn’t have started this thread. I’m not a battle-hardened forum poster boy and I’m having a tough time dealing with this blankety-blank-blank.


========
http://m3mm.com

[BruceWright]

Hello Andrew.

You say that Segways are good for recreation, and I think they are too. All of that stuff is fun. Yeah, I've done no-hands.

But there's a difference between shredding it up at a skateboard park, and hot-dogging it in a public park. Weaving around folks who have every right to enjoy a park without the threat of skatepunks on motor-scooters.

Forget about us, what about those folks in the park?
You don't have to believe in a utopian vision for a Segway to show common courtesy to the people you share the park with.

Ill intentions or not, all actions have consequences.

People fight to ban Segways from my city. I haven't videotaped my slow, gentle, friendly daily commute to work. But folks watching your violent ride will share it with others. Bad news travels fast. Nobody wants to see my boring gentle ride to work, but everyone loves a car-crash.

Glad you didn't get arrested when you rode illegally in a park.

I'd like to not have to break the law in order to ride my Segway.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[stevew]

With all the hotdogging they do I'm amazed at how sedate and nonplussed the other folks in the park were. They barely seemed to notice the Segways! Is this just how Canadians are, sort of nonchalant? I don't know, I've only been there once.

[mellenger]

We did have people notice us on that ride. Jack warned us that people would stop us and ask about it. We probably spend at least 1/2 of our 90 min talking to people and handing out flyers for Segway Rentals. I must have handed out 50 flyers easily. Everyone was really interested in trying them out.

When we drove by people we slowed down and didn't freak anyone out. Just the interesting stuff made the video. I filmed about 25min of footage and it's down to a 3 min video, so you can imagine there is a lot of just riding around not bothering anyone.

========
http://m3mm.com

[pt]

that's good to hear no one seems to be freaked.

did jack ask you or pay you to hand out the flyers?

were the flyers in the bag?

i kinda wish jack woulda warned you about other stuff :-]

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[BruceWright]

I kinda wish you would make a video of the other 22 minutes of boring stuff.

:-)

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[hubbahbubbah]

I think Andrew actually brings up a good point about the recreational use of Segways. Fun can be an end in itself, after all.

Dave Winer, a blogger and tech visionary whom I greatly respect, had an an article way back, when the Segway was released, speculating that it may end up as a recreational device, more than anything else. I don't see that happening right now, but I think it's an interesting perspective:

http://davenet.userland.com/2001/12/10/daveWinerOnASegway

What do you all think?

Hubbah

::: http://stinkyshorts.blogspot.com :::

[pam]

Well, when something isn't out, you can speculate a lot about what the ultimate value of it will prove to be. And even from this point, it's speculation, somewhat. *So far* it has shown itself to be a short distance car replacement in the majority of cases here on SC. But we're a small percentage of the entire Segway population.
Who knows?
Pam

[GlideMaster]

Where is this so called video?

[gotseg]

Yes, where is this video? Can someone put it up on geocities or something?


gotseg?

[pt]

i think if you're the type of person who could never use one for your commute you'll think about other uses for you, which some people would suggest "recreational" as that's were it would "end up" but all data right now leans towards less car trips and having -fun- while doing it. same goes for bicycles, most people use them for exercise, not commuting in the usa. all forms of transportation have a recreational side to them, boats, trains, planes, cars...if it moves, some people will make that their recreational activity. i've put the top down in our remaining car and have simply "gone for a drive". hearing that some people who rent the segway enjoy it is great. if someone wants a speed thrill though, this isn't that type of magic carpet.

cheers,
pt


quote:Originally posted by hubbahbubbah

I think Andrew actually brings up a good point about the recreational use of Segways. Fun can be an end in itself, after all.

Dave Winer, a blogger and tech visionary whom I greatly respect, had an an article way back, when the Segway was released, speculating that it may end up as a recreational device, more than anything else. I don't see that happening right now, but I think it's an interesting perspective:

http://davenet.userland.com/2001/12/10/daveWinerOnASegway

What do you all think?

Hubbah

::: http://stinkyshorts.blogspot.com :::


======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[hubbahbubbah]

pt, I agree with you that the trends right now point away from the recrational use and towards the more utilitarian. But I think the perspective was interesting nevertheless -- and I also think we still have no idea where this is going, who knows what type of use will become widespread in the end? Many niches for the Seg are developing as we speak -- recreational use is admittedly a small one now.


Hubbah

::: http://stinkyshorts.blogspot.com :::

[pt]

i think people are going to get banned from using their cellphones in cars, eating in them, putting makeup on...they're going to get bored and want a more active role in their hostage time each day as they commute.

then they see us, floating by....

tune in, turn on, glide out.

cheers,
pt




======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[BruceWright]

I think if you broke down the average Segwayer's miles it'd be about even the utilitarian and the recreational. As Segways becorme part of our lives more, we may play with them less and work with them more, or vice-versa.

I like pt's idea that riding in the car will become less enjoyable as driving distractions are outlawed. A cute idea, if only in my desire to not be run down by a cell-phoned latte-sipper.

Hostage time indeed. We need more greenways!

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[pt]

good point bruce after almost 950 miles...it -is- utilitarian for me that is for sure, but now that i think about it i -do- enjoy it so much, i'm sure my bio-feedback and brain chemicals would say it's recreational too, and ya know what, that's great. why should our method of getting around tick us off so much? i hate driving, and now when i drive i put the top down and go for a long trip. one time i needed to rent a car when my wife had the other car.

if i could sail to work i would, if i could fly to work i would, i --can-- glide to work, so i do. i'm alone out there, never see anyone, it's like it's just me water, moutains, sky. seattle is amazing.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[BruceWright]

Yeah, my commute takes me down empty sidewalks most of the way too. I like it. It's more enjoyable to be out there without a radio yammering in my head.

In a car, you need the radio, because it's the only thing connecting you to something. That steel cocoon is so isolating. No such need on a Segway, you are out there in the world.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[ftropea]

I know it's not scientific, but check out the results of a poll we once did:

http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1005

(BTW, I know we need to do a new poll... so post your suggestions to the SC Home Page forum.)



Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

[/sc] Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me (segwaychat@segwaychat.com)

[sfh1790]

Ah...this thread is verging on a something new.

Segway Haiku. Any poets out there...?

sh
sheng@drizzle.com

[RWC]

PT,

What about Jack's Portland operation? Anything for locals there to monitor and be ready to act upon? He claims to have 8 there now with 12 more coming! 20 Segs to rent out...

Take care, R.

"The best way to control your cow or sheep is to give them a large spacious meadow... and a Segway with all terrain tires" - Suzuki Ralphi

[pt]

hmm, i don't know anything about that. if there are owners in the area, might be worth checking out. i think jack is working to being safer and more legal, so hopefully seeing all this helped (in one week his site was updated and new safety processes seem to be in place).

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[st7860]

- Vancouver BC City Council(where the infamous Jack rental store is) is known to be lenient to special street uses(such as skateboards, scooters, etc)

- as for the local cops, it depends. If you are polite and dont give lip to them if they ask you questions, they probably wont give you a ticket and/or will let you go away.

- there are constant local stories in the newspaper about cops beating up some druggie or wino but as long as you're dressed reasonably non-shabby and dont talk back, riding things like a segway or a scooter on a sidewalk is probably ok as long as you're not doing it in a nasty high speed manner