View Full Version : i rented a segway ht...
folks-
i rented a segway ht today at a place in seattle (paid full price) i'm going to write all this up later in a proper way, but here's the quick version.
the couple who runs the place are very nice people who are very concerned with safety. i do think they have the best intentions. while i was there i saw 8 people in 2 hours rent hts, they all loved them.
now the bad news.
-the park department in seattle hired someone to guard the park from segways, they've also extended the ban. according to the parks department, the hts are banned from sidewalks as well. this might not be possible, but it is on the handout they're now giving to people. $500 fine, criminal and civil charges if you go -near- the park, even the sidewalk near it is off limits. the park official said they had no problems with a few owners here and there (i asked)-- but the rentals spooked everyone, so they enacted a ban.
-training, the training is as good as possible i feel. the training is a video, you sign a contract, you then spend as long as needed before you're let loose in the busy seattle area called greenlake. the training are is outside the store, on the sidewalk, so it's a bit too uneven and it's not level (5 to 10% grade). so while all the rental folks did okay, it was hard for them. you can't show a safety shutdown like we all experienced in segway training, they also don't go over all the things owners have learned about being around people, etc...
-you're only allowed on the black key, 2nd glide you get the yellow (and / or 5 hours of gliding).
-i feel this area (greenlake) is way too busy for a segway ht. the sidewalks are too small, too many people in a small area for multiple hts. i'm sad to say, the city is likely to restrict that area and then these folks are out of biz.
-they didn't work with the parks department before, but plan to now. the parks department told me old more restrictions are coming.
-rentals do not actually help sales. when people were done, they wanted to buy one, the rental place does not sell hts, when they were told they need to order online in some way, interested parties said "naa". i later chatted with them and they said they'd only buy one on the spot.
i told the rental place all my concerns, told them about the vancouver rental place, told them that they have the power to get us all banned. they welcomed all input. they're great folks, they're going to cause issues for us owners.
my prediction: an even larger ban can and will happen in the next 30 to 60 days because of the rental biz in my area as well as other areas. i can't stop rentals, it's their right, i can only try my best to talk to folks, that's what i did. i do feel i did as much as a human could without causing anyone any problems.
i am a segway owner for 6 months, 850+ miles, i've also rented a segway ht. these are my opinions and predictions. for you folks who have comments, please keep in mind that i actually own a segway, work with the city on segway issues when i can and i rented a segway from a rental place. i did all i could to make a fair assessment.
please don't tell me how rentals will help sales or how they won't cause problems in my area, all the facts are in.
i think rental places can do well for all of us, they need to work with segway, work on selling the hts, have a proper place and location and most of all, work with the city. the city can and will shut us all down.
there is a good chance, i might need to buy a car soon, i'm not happy about that.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
Brooster
05-31-2003, 09:07 PM
Great report, PT, thank you.
Brooster
terryp
05-31-2003, 09:35 PM
If it's true that the bike trails are now off-limits to HTs as well, as PT just emailed me, that's really sad. I just got back from a 50 mile bike ride, including part of the Burke-Gilman and Sammamish River Trails, and I didn't see any new signs, so I can plead ignorance for a while, and I have a copy of the EPAMD bill in my bag. Talk about an over-reaction! If I'm banned from the trail, there's no alternative route to work.
I'll email state representative Laura Ruderman again. She was in on the legislation permitting HTs on bike trails, and I believe will do what she can to help.
BTW - The latest Cascade Courier - the publication of the nation's largest bike club - came out today with an article I wrote on the HT. I wanted to make sure that trail users knew that they're legal, safe, and nothing to be concerned about. Good timing, huh ;-(
Guess I'd better go for a glide while I still can...
Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle
terry-
i don't think you as an owner using the ht will have any problems, i think this is for the park only (even know it says more). carry that law with you, if you get nabbed you'll need it. let me know if i can help in any way, i'm also contacting some folks as well.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
terryp
05-31-2003, 10:04 PM
That wasn't how I read your email. I already emailed Laura, telling her that it appeared that the Burke-Gilman was about to be posted off-limits too. Well, we'll see what she finds out. I'll post anything I hear, and I'm sure you'll do the same.
I'll watch Bookofseg for a story on your GreenLake glide; I'm sure you shot some video.
While I still can, I'm
Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle
terry-
the sign that the parks department is giving the renters who try to use the park is clear -no hts on the alki / burke-gilman trails. i'm going to scan it in.
that said, i still think you will be okay based on the fact you're not opening a rental place and putting 10 hts on the trail. the city had someone "guarding" the park today from that.
that said, it's all up in the air.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
Balance
05-31-2003, 11:32 PM
Terry, I will be very interested in any news you get back from representative Ruderman. I live next to the Sammammish River Trail and occassionally use the trail (during the day and never at nights and weekends when it is really busy on the trail). If I need to get from downtown Redmond to the Overlake area, I find the bike trail along the 520 highway the best way to make the trip. I can live with the river trail being off limits but if bike trails such as the 520 bike trail become off limits, I will probably just sell my Segway since it won't be a feasible method of commuting.
"my prediction: an even larger ban can and will happen in the next 30 to 60 days because of the rental biz in my area as well as other areas." These are so absurd! Classic example of over-reaction from the complainers.. but then again.. we'll see in 30 to 60 days..
PoloAk
06-01-2003, 02:09 AM
Well, on the positive side, one of the news reporters from Anchorage did a story on the company (Glide) and produced a very positive piece. They put the Segway and the entire company in a very good light.
Kelsey
quote:Originally posted by vpv"my prediction: an even larger ban can and will happen in the next 30 to 60 days because of the rental biz in my area as well as other areas." These are so absurd! Classic example of over-reaction from the complainers.. but then again.. we'll see in 30 to 60 days..
okay, i "won" (but we all really lost) the parks department increased the ban 12 hours after i wrote that post.
they're now including multi-use trails and sidewalks -near- a park, in addition -to- the park. i'm scanning it in.
$500, criminal offense and civil charges (in addition to a 12 month ban from the park) are the penalties.
you say "this is so absurd!"
ask the people here in MY CITY that now can't use their segway, they have a $5,000 dust collector now.
classic example of over-reaction from the complainers?..you need to look at the facts to what happened.
someone is going to get hurt from a rental, then when it comes time for a ban in los angles, you'll lose your ability to use your ht too when the groups who want to ban something can use rentals as an example.
the worst thing is to be right over and over again about these things and then have to deal with people who can't see the train wreck coming despite all the facts.
if you're not going to help out or make suggestions, could you consider skipping over my posts and let the people trying to get stuff done, do it? thanks.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
BruceWright
06-01-2003, 02:44 AM
So what are you going to do, pt? What's your next step?
Okay, rental places have gotten your Segway banned. What do you do now?
Can we stop rental places from being created? Not that I can see. And the damage has already started in your home town.
What are you going to do?
We get it. Rentals are bad. 500 posts and 10 threads later, we get it!
;)
Now what? You going to lobby the city? Get a private owner's license waiver? Get the city to ban rentals of Segways? Challenge the ban in court? Picket? Call newspapers?
Oh, and you have a ROBOT DOG! ;)
-Bruce Wright
Segway: Vehicle of Dream
pt...I've read all the facts. i'm not disputing the facts.that's not the issue...its your overreactions is what i'm concerned about.. it's your absurd comments about rental biz out there is what concerns me.... But then again.. I can't stop your complaining about them...
Like I said in previous posts, all bans are misguided... and people who agree on them seem to be misguided too.. I just hope you're not one of them... but you've already demonstrated that on this Park issue.
I think all i'm trying to SUGGEST here is to focus our energy on fighting the bans and not to put the blame on Segway users (rented or owned)..
You're right, someone will get hurt (or have already gotten hurt) from rental. Someone will die on rental. Someone will get hurt or die on owning a Segway.. But that's not an issue..
The issue is DON'T BAN THE SEGWAY!! regardless of whether people get hurt or die!!
That's the bottom line....Let's focus on that.. I tried to help the best I can..... but if people here in this forum are so disorganized or have different agendas.. can't help that..
BruceWright
06-01-2003, 03:06 AM
vpv,
How do we achieve the idea of "Don't ban the Segway?"
I'm curious. We got like 1000 people here, and we all write letters to places. Some of them decide not to ban it, some of them decide to ban it. La Mirada, Pasadena, wherever. We've been doing this for months now.
We're talking in any given random city, a million people and 2 Segways. How far do you think "don't ban the Segway" can get? How far has it gotten us so far?
What do you propose that fixes this? We say "Don't ban the Segway, regardless of whether people get hurt or die!" Is that our rallying cry?
Okay, I believe you. All bans are misguided. Sure. Got a solution, cause I'd love to hear it. How do we get the political power to do this before a rental place opens next door? There seems to be a new one each week. It's gonna get tough out there.
-Bruce Wright
Segway: Vehicle of Dream
bruce-
i don't know. some folks don't get it quite yet, it's okay...this is one of those times when it sucks being right.
rentals are here to stay, that is a fact. rentals -are- coming to all of our cities sooner than we think.
what am i going to do? well, here's what i've done.
so far, i've rented a ht, spent 3 hours there talking with them, telling them everything i could about my concerns. they're going to work with the park dept. i'm going to work with them and the park department. i'm going to chat with the senator to see what our options are. i'm going to talk to as many people as i can to make sure we all can discuss this.
i spoke with segway. i'm talking with the owners in my area so we can all approach the city if needed.
i'm documenting all of this, i'm trying the best i can.
i'm talking with jack (trying to) in vancouver, canada. i speak to larry in spokane and keith in nevrland on a regular basis.
i've posted here 500 times in 10 threads so folks can see this and figure out what they think.
i'm not doing this for me i can ride in the street for all of my commute or buy a new car, i'm doing this for everyone. i'm doing this because i believe i know what's going to happen across the country unless someone does something -now-.
i feel strongly about this. i know what i'm doing now may stop a ban in cities around the world through education of the rental folks, owners and more. i know that rental folks might be a little safer now and people might not get hurt, i'm bold enough to say i know for a fact some rental places have already changed. i know i made it safer out there.
...and i'm doing more than i should. i'm just one person, i don't work for segway and i'm gettin' tired. i could use some help-- i cannot keep this up for much longer and that's most likely better for me personally anyway.
so back to what am i going to do? i think i did all i could.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
Bruce,
You seemed to have touched on one of the solutions that will accomplish our goal of "Don't ban the Segway"--political power. LLC is doing a great job on this... but owners/renters ought to be more proactive on attaining political power..It's the only way to change some existing weak EPAMD laws out there, like in Calif & other States where it allowed cities the option to ban/restrict.. These state laws are flawed in that regard and it ought to be change.. Maybe a federal law allowing EPAMD on all sidewalks with no options to ban/restrict.. That's a long way to accomplish.. but it will not be accomplished if all we do is send emails here and there. Let's get organized just like the anti-seggers out there are organized. They're more organized than we are. Let's not wait until an issue (ban) comes up and we're so unprepared in fighting it..
One of the suggestions I placed on this forum is to document in writing the initial positive acceptance of people who tried riding Segways (and rentals can now collect these documented reactions from people who try it) and have them acknowledge it in a form of a petition to their city officials...
If we continue what we've always done in the past, we'll get what we've always gotten--bans..
It's time to change..
vpv-
i do think this is a better "mode" to be in. you need to understand, i'm doing the best i can to gather all the data i can, ya'll can figure out what to do next too.
while i don't think a petition is any good (sorry) i am open to anything that might work. soo....
i did ask -today- "what if i got 1,000 or 1,000,000 signatures that said the ht is safe and the ht is great, would that stop a ban or reverse the park ban in seattle".
do you know what the parks department said?
no.
as in, no. that won't work no. as in, that's a waste of time no.
they told me public safety will outweigh public opinion with something like this and while it might be interesting as a data point for someone it won't do anything. basically, the laws would need to be changed and a lobbyist would be needed for real change when a ban happens -or- if you want to change existing laws so bans are harder to pass without merit.
so if you want to start on that one, i'd like to hear some ideas too.
but hey, don't let all these facts from my city with a park ban (and possible sidewalk ban) influence you--
i'd like to know if your petition thing would work, so can you try it and report back? cali is always on the ban block, anything will help.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
mzokc
06-01-2003, 04:34 AM
Any crowded location is suspect for an HT ban. However, in our state, no municipality can pass a law preventing the use of the EPAMD.
A glider license would work, but that is not currently legal.
The answer in Oklahoma to regulate rentals is TAX. They love to TAX whenever possible. They are NOT going to stop something that is providing revenue!
Mark
pt..
Like I said before, you're commended for doing a great job.
I do think that petition will work if presented to the right people who has the actual authority to make decisions. I don't know if the park department has overall authority on bans or whether the city has final authority over the park department. If the latter is true, then we've asked the wrong guy.
However, we all know that public safety is not an issue with the Segway, otherwise we wouldn't buy it...Therefore whoever told you that public safety outweighs public opinion is again misinformed of the capabilities of the Segway and is making decisions out of fear and mistrust--classic profile of a ban. The petition will clear all these fears. I do however am waiting for a more authoritative entity out there that is well trusted among everyone, like the "Highway Institute" (sic) that test crash cars and report objectively on these results or similar entity.
I will try my best to see if petitions work and will report back.. but just like you said I'm just one person and could surely use some help.
the parks department has 100% authority to do what they did. and they did it. the person i talked to confirmed everything i suspected.
public safety is an issue with the segway, it's not harmless no matter what any of us think, i'll be the first to go 1,000 miles soon-- trust me i know what the ht is capable of is experienced and non-experienced hands. cities work with lawyers, engineers and figure out what the risk of something is. 10 segways hts in a busy public park bzzzt, not safe. ban.
the park dept said a petition is useless a study from the high inst. will take years, what are we to do- now?
until you try a petition and it works, i gotta believe my city officials when they tell me that's a waste of time.
please report back asap, we need to know what can work.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
BenjiUK
06-01-2003, 05:45 AM
How excatly could a glider hurt another person, yes I can understand at 12mph an impact could be nasty, but if its black key only what would a 6mph impact do to someone?
I'm imagining that once contact was made the seg is pushed backwards and stops while impactee is pushed over or just unblanced?
It seems that these bans are through concern over public safety which is what the seg was built around was it not? Any chance of seeing notes on how the parks came to this conclusion, obviously I'm a little concerned that the same thing will happen here.
B.
Ben, they came to the decision based on what they "think" might happen if an 83 lb machine bumps into a person. Not based on any studies or useage stats.
Unfortunate, but true.
Pam
ElectraGlide
06-01-2003, 10:41 AM
It's much easier and cheaper for a municipality to put a BAN on the Segways than it would be to conduct a poll or safety study. They took the easy way , which is understandable and predictable , yet disappointing to all Seg users. I hope the same doesnt happen here in Florida where the Segging is very "user friendly " at this time .
Maybe we need " ambassador clubs "with riders that have some political experience to quell such happeneings in other hot spots. Is there anyone familiar with city councils and their methods of operations ?
Steve
BenBethel
06-01-2003, 11:31 AM
Wow - why is everyone acting like such freaks!? If they allow rollerblades they should allow segways - rollerblades can be rented anywhere and are MORE dangerous. That's the only angle you need to take.
www.benbethel.com
ben-
segways are more dangerous in that park than rollerblades in my opinion. and yah know what? so did all the park officials.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
sfh1790
06-01-2003, 04:58 PM
I was just re-reading the Washington state law on segways, and came across this: "Persons under sixteen years of age may not operate an electic-assisted bicycle".
My memory is the Greenlake rental shop allows segway renters as young as 10 years of age, as long as they are supervised. I'm not quite sure what "supervised" means. It could mean any adult (someone 18 years old), or perhaps the rental store staff.
I think they should align with the state law in this regard, and use a minimum age limit of 16. A 10 year old on a rented segway in a high traffic area makes no sense to me.
pt is the most experienced segway rider we know of, but I'll bet even he wouldn't be fast enough to get a 10 year old out of a confrontation with an SUV.
I hope Segway, LLC brings up the age issue in any conversation with the rental store.
sh
sheng@drizzle.com
sh-
you are correct. there is only one reason to allow people under the age of 16 on a ht, $40 more dollars for the rental.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
Linc2000
06-01-2003, 06:30 PM
Hey Folks!
Segways are Dangerous! Driving a car is one of the most dangerous things we do on a regular basis. Both of these activities require training, lots of practice and a committment to safety and caution to make them safe.
Renters of Segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that Segways currently have. In our own best self interest we should work to ban Segway rentals until such time that the general public understands what it means to ride a Segway the same way they understand what it means to drive a car. If that is unachieveable then all rental companies need to be required to carry liablity and comprehensive insurance on all the people they rent to. Of course, they will pass along the cost.
The Segway is an opportunity to achieve lower dependence on Mid-East oil. That alone may save many live. It can help keep our environment clean. More lives extended. If people get hurt by renters of Segways, attorneys will look for deep pockets to sue and Segway LLC could find that staying in business is no longer reasonable. Riding a Segway like driving a car is not a right, it is a privilege.
Let us not throw the Segway opportunity away because we are afraid to admit the Segway is dangerous if used by untrained individuals or by someone who is reckless or careless. $40 and 30 to 60 minutes of training does make a for a safe Segway operator.
We have been listening to the sage counsel of pt for some time. His words still have merit.
Lincoln [8D]
<center> http://www.wwwebhosting.com/tm3wwwlogo.gif</center>
Linc:
Segways are inherently dangerous (like cars), however they're safer to operate than cars. But the danger issue is no reason to ban rental companies, otherwise we should also ban cars.
"Renters of Segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that Segways currently have." <--this is an assumptions and not a fact.
"We have been listening to the sage counsel of pt for some time. His words still have merit." <<-- i wouldn't characterize it as a sage... self-appointed maybe is what's frequently describe by some posters in this forum.
vpv-
i don't have any answers, i'm not an expect and will never claim to be one, but i'm willing to ask the hard questions and spend time working with people.
i agree with linc, renters of segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that segways currently have. in fact, i have a video of a rental gone wrong. the person in the video did not get to see a safety video, they pushed the limits and made the ht fall over, the title of the video was called "andrew the segway monster" the file name was segwaycrash.wmv. the rental place demanded that andrew take the video down. the rental place in question is operating illegally according to canadian law.
facts, served up hot and fresh.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
RAG1247
06-01-2003, 07:23 PM
As far as segway rental comments are concerned it is hard to know where to post a comments since several threads are going on, but here goes:
1. Regardless of whether the Segway population increases due to rental units or units purchased by individuals, the increased numbers of units in any given area is also going to lead to increased scrutiny by the public and municipalities.
2. While many of these rental companies are being classified as greedy and irresponsible, it remains to be seen if this is truly the case. Nevrland seems to have a good reputation but in a way they are a totally different category based on their being located in Celebration where 100+ residents have purchased units. I understand that Nevrland is looking at franchises in other areas of Florida and it will be interesting to see how this affects such areas.
3. Much mention is made of inadequate training, but let’s face it, the majority of owners, if not all, received the bulk of their training after receipt of the unit. Segway provided what amounts to 1 or 2 hours of training at best and many areas such as the use of yellow and black keys were never covered or tried by purchasers, other than possibly by the early contest winners. I also believe that the Segway training which now seems to be called orientation will eventually disappear, as far as LLC is concerned and they will rely more on manuals and videos.
4. Like it or not many of these posts seem to be saying let me do it but not others.
5. If you live in densely populated areas, growth of Segway units in that area are no doubt going to influence how you will be able to use it and may result in outright bans. If you live in rural areas (except for some areas in California, where I think the proposed bans will continue to escalate like wild fire), you probably will not experience such banning or restrictions.
6. It may be possible that LLC can help in controlling rental centers (I am sure they can), but their entire marketing effort is still in a state of flux and I expect changes from week to week as they balance the interest of Segway owners and their own business plan and goals. LLC is a small company with limited resources as far as numbers of personnel to run around and battle the huge number of municipalities and city councils throughout the country. They are responding and I think doing a good job when they can present their case, but as we have already seen in some areas, these proposed bans seem to occur overnight without any advance warning.
7. Some are emphasizing the lack of training received by renters. I suspect no amount of limited training would truly be satisfactory, since the 1 or 2 hours at LLC did not make any of us experts. Again, imo, the problem relates more to numbers of Segway units which appear instantly and not over time.
8. While we might say either renters or rental companies might be irresponsible there are examples of situations detailed in this forum by members/owners indicating that they may be somewhat less than responsible.
9. While I cherish the Segway and its use, the vast majority of individuals have no interest in owning a Segway (and in many cases could not afford such a purchase) and this includes city council members. Those people who have no interest in a Segway also have no interest in whether or not its use is banned or restricted.
We can all continue to do what we can. I have sent emails to those various councils considering a ban, but in reality, I am not sure how much help it is if the email is from someone 3000 miles away. On the other hand the involvement of everyone is necessary at their local level.
Richard
Ft. Lauderdale
http://www.sonyguy.com/stars_rag2.gif[/img=left] [i]If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you
I guess facts are subject to interpretation, and that's what's being done here by some people...
Is Andrew, the renter, not maintaining the safe image that Segways [owners] currently have? Read his explanation. You can interpret it the way you like but in my opinion, him "not trying to fall off" is maintaining the safe image of segways (granted he wasn't trained properly).
---------------------------
I'd like to clear some stuff up.
First of all i don't know that Saber Salinas guy. He wasn't there and his girlfriend's husband was the one who did the filming and the editing.
Second: I absolutly was not trying to fall off it but i was trying to find the limits of it, I participate in other balance sports, bicycling, skateboarding, snowboarding so I am used to falling down and i feel more comfortable when i know the limits of the tech. It wasn't a big deal to fall and I assumed it was fairly normal till jack later told me that was the first fall he had ever seen.
I really appreciate the screenshot with the diagram overlay. Thanks. Just for the engineering types. I'm 6'2", 225lbs, size 12 feet.
pt got it right, we rented the segways from Jack at Segway Rentals in Vancouver. He drove out to meet us with 4 of them and did the tutorial. We didn't get to watch the video and I think that would have made a big difference.
I was back at the shop yesterday and I got to see the video, I love it. It totally made me believe in the Utopian society that is coming and my part in it . After that 16min assault on my convictions we headed off out of the store in a straight line, totally blank-faced and mumbling "Riding a Segway is one of the coolest thing I will ever do" over and over to ourselves.
Ben is just finishing up a longer cut of our segway experience. It should be ready in a few days.
andrew
vpv-
i think you're finally coming around when you said "granted he wasn't trained properly" that is the point!!!!
here's andrew's note to me...
"It was my first day on a Segway and I was really excited to see the limits of it"... "..I wasn't trying to overdo it but I definitely was trying to put myself in a position that was not natural"
he also said he never got to watch the video in the post you posted. it's been reported from a site that did a review that training was 15 minutes.
i also recieved emails from people which details how jack rents hts, as well as the problems with the vancouver officials.
so...
i think rentals places, like jack's are there to maximize profits, proper training and watching a video cuts into the profits and -that- is what a rental biz needs to do, make profits.
the video makes the ht not look safe and we all know he wasn't trained properly. i think you know what the result will be if and when the vancouver officials find out about this, i'm hoping jack replies to my emails.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
The point is here about the renter not the biz who rents, which we all agree is questionable.. I've repeated time and time again that the blame doesn't fall on the RENTER..
Here's another message from Heather, one of the girl in the video. Is the RENTER, Heather, not maintaining the safe image that Segways [owners] currently have? Of course she is. PT.. read the last sentence.. about learnin curves.. People who rent segways have the same vested interest in maintaining the safe image of Segways. So don't fault the renters.
----------------------------
Hello. This is my first time posting. I just wanted to say I was one of the people renting the segways on the day the footage of Andrew falling off was shot. I really enjoyed it and if we had the money we'd probably get one. I hope that rental spots don't get Segways banned. It may be the only way people get to try them out if they can't fork out the $7500 Can. We were at a park. Lots of people were watching us try them. Even though they have been on the news, most people hadn't heard of them. It seems as though renting could really increase people's awareness of Segways. Anyway, just once more for the record. Andrew isn't a punk. He was just following instructions on how to stop aggressively. What's the big deal about falling off anyway? People fall off bikes when they learn to ride them. Then they improve. It's all part of the learning curve.
Linc2000
06-01-2003, 08:52 PM
I remember during training while we were watching the video that someone said showing this video would discourage people from buying a Segway and would hurt sales and questioned why they showed it. Some people voiced agreement. Of course, I had to comment they already have us hooked and it was safe to show us the video. We then discussed the video and the safety issues it covered and the importance of knowing the limits of the Segway. We all eventually agreed it was important part of training. Lincoln [8D] P.S. I hope the rental operators are not keeping the video from renters because they think it will discourage them from renting a Segway.
<center> http://www.wwwebhosting.com/tm3wwwlogo.gif</center>
quote:Originally posted by vpv The point is here about the renter not the biz who rents, which we all agree is questionable..
wow, finally you're getting it. i don't think andrew did anything wrong. he wasn't trained properly.
now, this is how one rental place does biz.
my plan is to work with these place to make sure it doesn't happen again.
quote:Originally posted by vpv People who rent segways have the same vested interest in maintaining the safe image of Segways. So don't fault the renters.
haha, they want to get their $40 worth. you're way off here.
but i'm sure all the facts will speak for themselves, like they have already.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
update, see my new thread with the news coverage.
http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3606
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
WFB48
06-02-2003, 12:00 PM
It's amazing to see the anti-Segway forces at work in various parks departments due to the POSSIBILITY of an injury. We have allowed bikes to use park paths for years, in some state parks on a rental basis. There have undoubtedly been numerous incidents involving riders and pedestrians but bikes are not banned. Uncertainty generates fear of the unknown. Familiarity brings tolerance. Until Segways become more widespread, and the nature of their true risk is understood, those who feel it is their responsibility to protect people from themselves will keep passing laws against this perceived menace to safety.
WFB48
wfb48-
rentals force parks to consider these things, if the rental place in my area worked with the city, it would have not been an issue and i bet they would have reached some compromise.
bike have been around for 100 years, and there is fear of something new. it's human nature.
cheers,
pt
======================
segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com
other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com
Sleepy
06-02-2003, 12:43 PM
Isn't Segway LLC partnered up with Keolis group in France to rent Segways from their "Oxygen" rental kiosks? Isn't this an endorsement by Segway LLC for rentals?
I agree that, short-term, rentals are going to hurt our public image because of lack of training. But I think rentals in the long run are a great idea. But just as you wouldn't rent a bike to a novice and send them into traffic, the same should apply to Segway rentals. The problem is, how does the general public get trained on Segs if they don't have access to them other than these rental places? Is it up to us owners to train as many people as we can?Should rentals only be available to owners?
I don't have any solutions... just a few more things to think about.
-Alex
bicycledriver
06-02-2003, 03:26 PM
Bikes were banned from Raleigh's Shelly Lake path system after a fast-moving bicycle rider killed an elderly pedestrian on the paved trail. The pedestrian stepped sideways or backward into the path of the cyclist.
Ironically, the Shelly Lake paths were originally intended primarily for bicycle use, but were allowed for pedestrian use. The pedestrian use ended up outnumbering the bicyclists. Unfortunately, the paved paths are too narrow for comfortable sharing between pedestrians walking two and three abreast and faster bicycle traffic.
The safest shared-use paths tend to be designed wider, more like miniature roadways, such that cyclists can pass pedestrians with a more adequate gap for their speed.
-Steve Goodridge
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.