jack this, video posted

[pt]

jack can email me and demand that the video get taken down (pt@bookofseg.com) i look forward to chatting with jack about all of this. it's important for all of us. read on, video link below.

here is what we know so far (or don't know for that matter):
-jack owns or is part of this segway rental place (http://www.fhtsc.com)
-jack doesn't always show a safety video as per a renter (andrew) and training can be as short as 15 minutes according to this site:
http://www.voltage-ev.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=7&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
-according to the contract, jack does show a video but he's not responsible for anything, no matter what, ever:
http://www.fhtsc.com/page8.html
-does jack have insurance?
-a fellow name andrew rented a ht from jack (didn't get to see the safety video). it seems to have cost $20 (usd)
-andrew really enjoyed the ht and used it in good faith, following the instructions of the trainer, jack.
-jack instructed andrew to really push the limits of the ht. andrew really pushed the limits of the ht.
-the ht performed a safety shutdown.
-andrew posted a video of all of this.
-it got posted on the web and linked to.
-people saw it, people here talked about it, a lot.
-jack (from what i'm told) is demanding that andrew take the video down.
-jack doesn't have any legal ground to demand anything about taking a video down.

here is the video:
http://www.bookofseg.com/videos/SegwayCrash.wmv

-i sent an email to jack and invited him here, i hope he replies so we can clear this up or at least find out more.

if things like this continue to happen, there will be bans.

jack cook
future human transport solutions company
1701 fir street
vancouver, bc, v6j 5j9

p: 604-734-9280
f: 604-608-3546
email: info@fhtsc.com
http://www.fhtsc.com

cheers,
pt

[pt]

i've asked andrew to check this out to make sure it's accurate.

no word from jack yet.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[pt]

below is the listing as per segcenter (http://www.segcenter.com)

gyro, will you continue to list jack's place after it's clear that safety video isn't always shown and training can be a short as 15 minutes? do you feel the same about rentals now? there have been 2 "issues" in one week, all centered around rentals.

================================================== ===
Vancouver, BC, Canada
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rental

The Future Human Transport Solutions Company
Jack Cook
www.FHTSC.com
1701 Fir Street
Vancouver, BC V6J5J9 Canada
604.734.9280 ph
604.608.3546 fax
Info@FHTSC.com
16) i167 units

$9.95 (Canadian dollars) is the fee for training. Then if the client wishes to take the Segway out onto the road/sidewalk, it is $19.95 per hour. We actually charge by the minute, $0.33. This allows the user to work on their own time frame. There are no minimum number of hours. We are located near a number of very attractive areas for cruising.
================================================== ===


======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[BAEHRTIME]

PT, when I try to play the video, Windows Media Player says "Unable to download an appropriate decompressor". Any solution? I have I.E. ver. 6, Security is Minimum, ?? Anybody else having problems - or have solution? Seems I can get audio but not video? I read the entire thread ... interesting to me ... but frustrating that I can't see the damn video??!! Thanks, Micky

[dhugger]

Nice job PT! As said in "Antitrust," information belongs to the world.

-Derek Hugger-

[GlideMaster]

<center>Per The Book Of Seg</center>Basic Rider Optimization Training for the Segway HT Participant Workbook (copyright) Segway LLC 2002

"Torque and Traction"
"If the Segway HT encounters a condition in which it can no longer perform in an acceptable manner, it will disable power and shut off. This is the case if forward, aft, or lateral pitch parameters are exceeded".

<center>The GlideMaster</center>
<center>http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete/1267/gif/segway.gif</center>
<center>If You’re Not Graceful In Your Glide, You Must Just Be Out For A Ride. </center>
<center>Responsible Riders Ride Segway and Segway Riders Ride Responsibly</center>
<center>Glide On</center>

[pt]

mickey-

it could be a windows media 9 movie, it seems to play fine for everyone so i'm not sure. i didn't compress it, it's what andrew encoded it as.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[dhugger]

micky, I've also posted a portion (the crash portion) of the video in divx format. you can get it here:

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~dhugger/Movies/

-Derek Hugger-

[RWC]

How can this file be viewed on a mac? Any mac-ies out who can help?

Any way to force Quicktime to see it? I DO have the mac version of Windows Media Player but it shows not picture, only sound.

I HAVE tried to use my old, slow Windows 2000 box and it too only plays audio - no video - via Media Player.

Suggestions?

Take care, R.

"The best way to control your cow or sheep is to give them a large spacious meadow" - Suzuki Roshi

[dhugger]

RWC, see my post about the vid in divx format.

-Derek Hugger-

[Ninja]

I had the same problem at first, audio but no video. When I tried with a different computer with windows media player 9 it worked. I still had to wait for it to download a codec though.

Aloha,
Randy &gt;:o)
http://alohasegway.com
"Increase the Peace"

[pbarr]

For those who didn't grow up with them, Firesign Theater reminds us of "Fudd's First Law of Opposition", that being:

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over."

I try to heed this warning every time I go out (on the Seg, in my car, whatever).

pbarr

[Lohja]

I'd like to have Andrew's input on this. What does he believe happened? Don't critisize the trainer--just say what went wrong. What was he really trying to do before the fall?

Visit my Segway Blog page at http://galsegway01.blogspot.com

[pt]

lohja-

andrew did post and sent me an email as well.

he said he wanted to push the limits of the ht and used it in an unnatural way following jack's instructions in way which resulted in "making it" fall over as per andrew. they were working on agressive stopping at the time.

i don't think andrew had "ill will" and we know that andrew didn't get to see the safety video and they were gliding in a parking lot (it seems without permission as well).

since then, the trainer jack demanded andrew remove the video.

it is reasonable to say jack could have done a better job here do you? and i think the 16 hts he rents may not be operating safely if this is how he usually does things.

i sent a note to jack, no reply.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[pt]

here's some math...(please check, i could be wrong).

according to www.segcenter.com jack's future human transport solution company (http://www.FHTSC.com) has 16 segway hts.

so 16 hts @ ($5,000) = $80,000

if the rental center charges $20 per hour.

16 segway hts would need to be used 24 hours per day for 166 days to break even for the cost of the hts ($80,000).

that doesn't include all the other things one needs to run a business, it's unclear what (or if) they carry an insurance policy. proper insurance is at least $5,000 for 4-6 units per 6 months (from some carriers).

24 hours per day x 166 days sounds impossible, since there's at best 8 hours per day of use it would actually take longer, about 3 times longer.

so that means it would take about 1.5 years of renting the hts each day for 8 hours per day, 7 days a week to get the return on the cost of the units.

there are many other factors too, training (which is reported to be a short as 15 minutes) and also a safety video (which isn't shown all the time). there's also all sorts of things. i guess if you could skim on the training and video, you could make more $.

to me, this sounds like it will be really hard to ever break even on the costs of the units, after 2-3 years i would think the ht would start to wear down with this much use...and since they're in canada can they get them fixed quickly?

oh, there's also the weather, some folks might not want to glide around in december. there's a good portion of the year that recreational gliding doesn't sound fun.

i'm thinking it'll take more than 5-6 years to get back the investment, if ever, if everything goes well.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[momentone]

I have been waiting for an appropriate crash topic to tell this story:

So I had a few folks over for dinner, one of whom is a famous professional athlete in Chicago. It's late, suburban and well lit, so we ride a bit on the deserted street in front of my house. He is doing very well as you would expect of a world class athlete, and then he pulls exactly what this guy in the video does, except he does NOT let go of the turn grip on the way forward, thus SPINNING the Segway around his arm HARD, which sends it airborn as he grips it TIGHTLY. HOnestly, it jumped a few feet in the air, he was forced to let go and the Segway bounced off the tires, righted itself, and slowly started moving forward right towards me as it shut down.

The whole dinner party was amazed by the fact that though the rider flew off, the Segway NEVER lost its balance. His wife was freaked. It was pretty amazing. And thankfully, Mr. All Star was not hurt. That would DEFINITELY have made headlines -- negative ones.

Never more after a late night. But the Segway performed wonderfully....

adios

[Stewbonz]

Hi PT. I calculate that if he rented one HT for only 5 hours per day, that would bring in $100 per day, no? The machine would pay for itself in only 50 days. After that, its $100 /day if only rented 5 hours a day. Times that by 16 machines! Not bad.

JEFF JARVIS

[toybuilder]

Uhm, pt, it looks like you punched in an extra digit somewhere...

16 Segways @ $5,000 = $80,000

7 revenue days per week, 5 revenue hours per day (accounting for idle time), 16 units in pool, at $20/hour = $11,200 per week.

That's a capital payback of about 8 weeks.

Of course, there's overhead, ($3 per sq.ft * 1000 sq. ft, maybe or $3,000 per month for rent, staffing at 2 x $8/hr * 40 hours = $640 per week, insurance at [random guess] $32,000 per year)... You'd still pay for the Segway in several months and you can resell the used Segways...


http://www.pasadenasegway.com/
A bicycle in 1897 cost $25 ($2,200 today adjusted for inflation).
A Ford Model-T cost $850 in 1908 ($75,000 today adjusted for inflation).

[pt]

i knew my math was off, thanks.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[dexter]

&gt;&gt;16 segway hts would need to be used 24 hours per day for 166 days to break even for the cost of the hts ($80,000).

Looks like you calculated for the Segways only being ridden one at a time instead of concurrently. If all the Segs are always rented, that brings in a total of $320 per hour (16 x $20). That gives a "break even" point of 250 hours, or 11 days.

That's what you get for letting your ROBOT DOG do the math :).

Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
work: www.idealjacobs.com
play: www.nyline.org

[pt]

some other news on the jack front.

i now heard jack is going for the "slash and burn" style for a few months until the local authorities stop him, he then sells the units for most of their value and he makes a cool profit.

the cops have chased him away a few times, he puts people in areas where they hts are not allowed, there are complaints and all sorts of bad things.

in canada they have socialized health care, so they're a little more worried than private health care countries (usa) since when you get hurt, the nation pays in canada.

more later as i learn more, jack still hasn't replied to my email(s).

think about this, rental places like jack buy a bunch of hts, rent for high prices, get banned, sell the hts a good price, profit.

i used to think segways would have a hard time because of advocacy groups not being educated on what the ht is, they're nothing compare to the real problem i see. greed. the pursuit of money is really going to the thing that will hurt us the most i feel.

i hope i'm wrong.

cheers,
pt





======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[pt]

so i wasn't that wrong :-] i can't see all 16 hts being used at once or someone being able to train them all. although, i now feel that jack doesn't care based on everything i've seen and heard.

i'm sure he'll make a killing, literally.

cheers,
pt



quote:Originally posted by dexter

&gt;&gt;16 segway hts would need to be used 24 hours per day for 166 days to break even for the cost of the hts ($80,000).

Looks like you calculated for the Segways only being ridden one at a time instead of concurrently. If all the Segs are always rented, that brings in a total of $320 per hour (16 x $20). That gives a "break even" point of 250 hours, or 11 days.

That's what you get for letting your ROBOT DOG do the math :).

Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
work: www.idealjacobs.com
play: www.nyline.org


======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[PoloAk]

Hmm. . .well, i'll be in B.C. in a few weeks. Maybe he'll end up duct taped to a telephone pole (jk)!

Kelsey

[pt]

kelsey-

vancouver isn't that far from me, if i wasn't meeting with -another- rental place i'd go and chat with jack, i really want to plead with him and get these facts straight. he hasn't returned my emails (but i know he has read them) so i fear that this fellow is going to slash, crash and cash out leaving canadians without segways after a ban is enacted.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[Heather]

Hello. This is my first time posting. I just wanted to say I was one of the people renting the segways on the day the footage of Andrew falling off was shot. I really enjoyed it and if we had the money we'd probably get one. I hope that rental spots don't get Segways banned. It may be the only way people get to try them out if they can't fork out the $7500 Can. We were at a park. Lots of people were watching us try them. Even though they have been on the news, most people hadn't heard of them. It seems as though renting could really increase people's awareness of Segways. Anyway, just once more for the record. Andrew isn't a punk. He was just following instructions on how to stop aggressively. What's the big deal about falling off anyway? People fall off bikes when they learn to ride them. Then they improve. It's all part of the learning curve.

[ftropea]

Hi Heather and welcome to the forum!

I hear 'ya..

For the record, we don't think Andrew is a punk. In fact, we respect his honesty about his intentions to push the Seg's limits. We're not really surprised that he fell - especially not now as we understand what happened.

Rentals have potential to be good.. but so far they've been troublesome. We're just trying to understand what's going wrong and working towards a long term solution.

We're glad to have you here and hope you can keep us updated on the rental situation in your area.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

[/sc] Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me (segwaychat@segwaychat.com)

[mellenger]

Frank,

Heather and I and a couple other friends were out in New York in March for a week. It was my first time there and it was a blast! What a great city. We spent most of our time on Manhatten Island jsut being tourists.

So do you use your HT for commuting? I can imagine it would be hard with the sidewalks being so congested most of the time.

========
http://m3mm.com

[GlideMaster]

pt it sounds like he may have snap the control shaft at the bottom. Every time I see the video I hear this loud snap, plus I notice that the control shaft does bend. What do you think?

<center>The GlideMaster</center>
<center>http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete/1267/gif/segway.gif</center>
<center>If You’re Not Graceful In Your Glide, You Must Just Be Out For A Ride. </center>
<center>Responsible Riders Ride Segway and Segway Riders Ride Responsibly</center>
<center>Glide On</center>

quote:Originally posted by pt

jack can email me and demand that the video get taken down (pt@bookofseg.com) i look forward to chatting with jack about all of this. it's important for all of us. read on, video link below.

here is what we know so far (or don't know for that matter):
-jack owns or is part of this segway rental place (http://www.fhtsc.com)
-jack doesn't always show a safety video as per a renter (andrew) and training can be as short as 15 minutes according to this site:
http://www.voltage-ev.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=7&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
-according to the contract, jack does show a video but he's not responsible for anything, no matter what, ever:
http://www.fhtsc.com/page8.html
-does jack have insurance?
-a fellow name andrew rented a ht from jack (didn't get to see the safety video). it seems to have cost $20 (usd)
-andrew really enjoyed the ht and used it in good faith, following the instructions of the trainer, jack.
-jack instructed andrew to really push the limits of the ht. andrew really pushed the limits of the ht.
-the ht performed a safety shutdown.
-andrew posted a video of all of this.
-it got posted on the web and linked to.
-people saw it, people here talked about it, a lot.
-jack (from what i'm told) is demanding that andrew take the video down.
-jack doesn't have any legal ground to demand anything about taking a video down.

here is the video:
http://www.bookofseg.com/videos/SegwayCrash.wmv

-i sent an email to jack and invited him here, i hope he replies so we can clear this up or at least find out more.

if things like this continue to happen, there will be bans.

jack cook
future human transport solutions company
1701 fir street
vancouver, bc, v6j 5j9

p: 604-734-9280
f: 604-608-3546
email: info@fhtsc.com
http://www.fhtsc.com

cheers,
pt

[pt]

quote:Originally posted by GlideMaster pt it sounds like he may have snap the control shaft at the bottom. Every time I see the video I hear this loud snap, plus I notice that the control shaft does bend. What do you think?

i don't think he broke it, andrew or heather would have mentioned that. i do think that the bolt may have moved and made that sound or it was gear that "clicked" when it went into safety shutdown.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[Heather]

I don't think it broke. We rode it for another hour or so after he fell. He fell close to the beginning.

[clm]

Heather,

The sensitivity on this forum is simple - it is all about sidewalk access. Segway owners want to be allowed to ride and be accepted on sidewalks. Indeed many feel that sidewalk access is mandatory for Segways to exist as a useful tool in our world.

Your right that most young people fall all the time without incident, but the folks that control sidewalks do not. Indeed a fall is life threating to many older folks and anything going fast on a sidewalk is scarry for them.

This Spring opinions of forming about the Segway device as they begin to appear around town for the first time. Many on this forum feel that 100% of the users must behave 100% skillfully and courteously for the next year or so until the majority of people get to accept the Segway as non threatening. Maybe that's true. Maybe that is unreasonable, but whatever, that is the goal and I'd have to say so far, so good. Things have been developing in a way that gives the Segway a chance at existence.

Now rentals may threaten this. The regulators may see newbies riding rental Segways in scarry ways, especially on park paths. But then again rentals do expose the Segway to alot of people who otherwise would not ever get hands-on experience. People have an almost 100% a positive attitude toward the Segway after they "get it" and this helps greatly.

I think the activity you are reading here is all about this community trying to understand and control the renters. Posters here are not yet sure if the renters hurt or help overall, but they have for sure concluded that the renters will have a big influence on how thing work out. To me this is all very exciting to see this form up.

You know, in a way those critical of renters are acting exactly like the local city councilmen in form. The Councilmen are worried that Seggers will scare people on sidewalks and the Seggers are worried that the renters will scare councilmen into banning Segways.

Chris

[BenBethel]

Dudes... it's been a few days since I've been on here but everyone is getting so angry so quickly.... again, this is like renting rollerblades to people who've never used them. This guy will learn that a few people will fall doing very minor things and get hurt. He'll step up his safety training for sure! Or he'll hurt himself. He just sounds new, like he has too much confidence (sound familiar?) and will have his mishaps and close-calls.

There's a curve on riding the HT. It's: a few minutes/hours/days of cautious riding due to no knowledge of the HT and not trusting the technology too much, followed by a few hours/days/weeks of riding where we trust the technology too much, until we hit doorways, bumps, spin on something, etc.... then we return to a happy medium. He's somewhere at the beginning still!

Unfortunately for him, he's got too many of these things. 16 of them? At least there's no interest in Canada on loans! Last time my parents were there they brought back a newspaper with interest rates on homes at -0.5% to -2.2% !!! Negative! They pay you to borrow money. Similar in Singapore and Malaysia.



Ben



www.benbethel.com

[nocanfly]

"At least there's no interest in Canada on loans! Last time my parents were there they brought back a newspaper with interest rates on homes at -0.5% to -2.2% !!! Negative! They pay you to borrow money. Similar in Singapore and Malaysia."

BenBethel: Can you let me know where I can get this negative interest rate. I'm planning to buy a home in Canada and the best I can get is 7%. Thanks in advance. ;) Seriously, there is no negative interest rate. That's just absurd!

[Lohja]

quote:Originally posted by nocanfly

"At least there's no interest in Canada on loans! Last time my parents were there they brought back a newspaper with interest rates on homes at -0.5% to -2.2% !!! Negative! They pay you to borrow money. Similar in Singapore and Malaysia."

BenBethel: Can you let me know where I can get this negative interest rate. I'm planning to buy a home in Canada and the best I can get is 7%. Thanks in advance. ;) Seriously, there is no negative interest rate. That's just absurd!


Be quiet about it. They won't know it unless you tell them. Possibly it's because Canadian dollars are worth less than American Dollars. So, as we approach 0% from the positive side, they must pass through 0% and go negative to keep the same separation. So our +4% is possibly equivalent to their -2%. Makes cents to me.

Visit my Segway Blog page at http://galsegway01.blogspot.com

[BenBethel]

I don't want to get off-topic, but I called my parents, brokers of 32 years, and they said yes, it was in the negative due to bank incentives which dropped the effective prime rate below zero for the first 3 or 5 years, they couldn't remember. They said this was in Vancouver. Also, when I was in Asia this past November, the daily news posted prime rates for all of the Asian nations and I remember being astounded at 0.02% to 0.62% prime rates!

However, it's getting good here too - I'm refinancing 5 mortgages, my primary residence is at 3.375% on a jumbo-loan, variable 5-year rate, while my investment properties are at 6.375% fixed - which is amazing since investment properties have always been in the 8.5% range for me!

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic, or just email me privately... thanks!

www.benbethel.com

[pt]

update-

still no word from jack. i sent him a series of questions (all the questions we had here) he didn't reply, but he did get them. i'm pretty sure it's in his best interest to not answer them since it could result in admitting some criminal acts.

cheers,
pt


======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[muckle]

Is there any way to save the video in Quicktime? I also have a Mac and the WMV only plays audio, as stated earlier. The divx version does the same thing - no picture. Us Mac folks would REALLY like to see this infamous, almost Zapruderesque footage!! HELP!