View Full Version : State Segway Laws
JohnM
11-18-2002, 11:19 AM
Just a heads up to prospective Segway owners. Do your own search on local laws if you want to know if Segways are legal in your area. Don't trust the links in any website, including that of Segway LLC. http://www.segway.com/general/regulatory.html
Example: Pennsylvania
The Segway site will point you to Penn. House Bill 2202,http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/BT/2001/0/HB2202P3038.HTM
This is NOT the bill that was passed in July. It is an early bill that was VERY restrictive, only allowing the mobility impaired to use Segways on sidewalks.
The actual bill is Penn Senate Bill 1225, http://www2.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/BT/2001/0/SB1225P2149.pdf
This law allows anyone (kids under 12 with helmets) to operate an EPAMD anywhere EXCEPT freeways and wherever local municipalities have restricted the sidewalk use. Big difference.
Again, do your own homework.
Runnin' with the Big Dogs
Casey
11-18-2002, 11:44 AM
The good news is that Pa loosened up the law rather than follow the San Francisco panic and ban it. If that is a trend Segway will come through with flying colors on legislation.
JohnM
11-18-2002, 12:07 PM
quote:Originally posted by Casey
The good news is that Pa loosened up the law rather than follow the San Francisco panic and ban it. If that is a trend Segway will come through with flying colors on legislation.
Don't confuse the state laws with the local ordinances. The Pennsylvania and California laws (and every other state law that I've looked at) are similar in that they allow the final word on sidewalk use to the local municipalities. Any city or town in Pa is free to make the same choice as San Francisco. I'm sure some will. Especially if SF and some other big cities (NYC?) enforce a segway ban.
Runnin' with the Big Dogs
ftropea
11-18-2002, 12:16 PM
JohnM,
Thanks for the alert. It's important for interested buyers to know what their local sidewalk status is relating to Segway-HT use. I'm going to make our "Sidewalk Legislation Status" page one of my next priorities, and will incorporate everything you guys bring to my attention.
Regards,
Frank A. Tropea
bicycledriver
11-18-2002, 12:43 PM
Segway owners should also know the details of how their state law treats roadway use of the Segway. Unlike bicycles, which are allowed on all roads except some high-speed controlled-access freeways, many states ban Segway use on roadways, or require Segway users to do very strange things. For instance, the North Carolina legislation bans Segway operation on roadways if there is a sidewalk present, and on those roads that lack sidewalks requires Segway users to travel against traffic on the left side of the road and yield the roadway to vehicle traffic. Note that this contra-flow operation is extremely dangerous at anything greater than walking speed; wrong way cycling is one of the leading causes of car-bike crashes and Segway drivers can expect the same. Unfortunately, if Segway drivers do the more sensible thing and drive on the right-hand side of the road, they will be held liable for any collisions in which they might be involved, due to the negligence of other road users, because they were violating the traffic law for Segways.
Steve Goodridge
http://humantransport.org/bicycledriving/
charmed
11-18-2002, 01:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by bicycledriver
Segway owners should also know the details of how their state law treats roadway use of the Segway. Unlike bicycles, which are allowed on all roads except some high-speed controlled-access freeways, many states ban Segway use on roadways, or require Segway users to do very strange things. For instance, the North Carolina legislation bans Segway operation on roadways if there is a sidewalk present, and on those roads that lack sidewalks requires Segway users to travel against traffic on the left side of the road and yield the roadway to vehicle traffic. Note that this contra-flow operation is extremely dangerous at anything greater than walking speed; wrong way cycling is one of the leading causes of car-bike crashes and Segway drivers can expect the same. Unfortunately, if Segway drivers do the more sensible thing and drive on the right-hand side of the road, they will be held liable for any collisions in which they might be involved, due to the negligence of other road users, because they were violating the traffic law for Segways.
Steve Goodridge
http://humantransport.org/bicycledriving/
Hey Steve,
I agree, riding on a roadway against traffic seems insane. I don't understand the reasoning (above walking speed). If I were forced to do it I would want some additional lighting up front (strobing hazards?). Do you know of any other states beside NC that are have this law in place, or are heading in this direction?
JohnM
11-18-2002, 02:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by charmed
Do you know of any other states beside NC that are have this law in place, or are heading in this direction?
(Excuse me for jumping in.)
I'm sorry to say that New Hampshire makes Segways subject to all pedestrian laws: quote:269:4 Operation Permitted on Sidewalks and Roadways. An operator of an EPAMD shall have the rights and duties of pedestrians prescribed in RSA 265:34-40.
Therefor RSA 265:39 is in effect. quote: 265:39 Pedestrians on Roadway. –
I. Where sidewalks are provided it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.
II. Where a sidewalk is not available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a way shall walk only on a shoulder, as far as practicable from the edge of the roadway. Where neither a sidewalk nor a shoulder is available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a way shall walk as near as practicable to an outside edge of the roadway, and if on a two-way roadway, shall walk only on the left side of the roadway.
III. Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, any pedestrian upon a roadway shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.
Most of the newer neighborhoods (post WWII) in Manchester/Bedford have no sidewalks and curbed, two way streets. Segways will be put at risk on the left side. Insane.
Runnin' with the Big Dogs
bicycledriver
11-18-2002, 02:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by charmed
I agree, riding on a roadway against traffic seems insane. I don't understand the reasoning (above walking speed). If I were forced to do it I would want some additional lighting up front (strobing hazards?). Do you know of any other states beside NC that are have this law in place, or are heading in this direction?
Every state that defines the Segway operator as a pedestrian or having the rights and responsibilities of a pedestrian does this. Most states have adopted traffic laws similar to that of the Uniform Vehicle Code, which supports the creation of uniformity of traffic laws across the United States. The UVC requires that pedestrians traveling along roadways without sidwalks travel on the left hand shoulder or edge of the roadway, facing traffic, and yield the roadway to oncoming vehicle traffic as necessary. The reason they are required to walk facing traffic is so they will be able to see the traffic to which they must yield - especially at night when pedestrians are hard to see.
This is very different from the law that applies to drivers of vehicles, such as bicyclists, which gives drivers the right to operate in the roadway, even if they are traveling slowly, but requires drivers to use proper reflectors and lights when operating at night. Some - but not all states - have special traffic laws for drivers of slow vehicles that require them to find a place to pull off the roadway if they are on a two-lane road and significant traffic backs up behind them, unable to pass for a significant amount of time. This is rarely a problem, however, on urban roads with wide lanes or multiple lanes.
By denying Segway drivers the full rights of drivers of vehicles, the Segway laws turn Segwayists into second-class road sneaks and trespassers wherever the sidewalks end.
Steve Goodridge
http://humantransport.org
Blinky
11-18-2002, 11:21 PM
Speaking of State laws, is it possible that Amazons and Segway's March 2003 release date can be a possible time when all state legislation will be passed?
If so, I just wanted to be the first to say so :)
Podkletnov
11-18-2002, 11:53 PM
So when will we have the first Segway arrest (for driving on a sidewalk in a prohibited municipality)?
bicycledriver
11-19-2002, 09:50 AM
quote:Originally posted by Podkletnov
So when will we have the first Segway arrest (for driving on a sidewalk in a prohibited municipality)?
I doubt that this will be the first ticketing/arrest of a Segway driver. Well, maybe on the west coast, but not here in the Southeast. Around here, actions that endanger pedestrians are far less likely to generate attention from police than actions that might, remotely, possibly, inconvenience motorists. I suspect that the first Segwayist ticketed in North Carolina will be ticketed for operating on the street. I'm confident of this because some of the locals here drive golf carts on the 5' wide public sidewalks and the police look the other way. But when the golf cart drivers tried driving them on the streets, the police got upset right away. Never mind that bicycles, horsedrawn carriages, construction vehicles, tractors and other slow vehicles are legal on the streets. Golf carts belong on the sidewalk! Some local cyclists have also been told by ignorant police officers to get out of the road.
I think it's important to understand that the real reason that the Segway is being promoted as a sidewalk-only vehicle is not safety, but a culture that is prejudiced against the operation of safe, affordable, environmentally friendly, slow-moving vehicles on streets in favor of maximizing convenience for automobile users at all costs. Segways are not going to reduce car use; Segways will replace pedestrians, and possibly some cyclists. By de-legitimizing the use of light vehicles on roadways, and giving drivers of light vehicles an inferiority complex with the popular expectation that they yield to everybody else at all times, Kamen's campaign will improve the perceived status and convenience of car drivers and encourage car use.
Steve Goodridge
http://humantransport.org
Casey
11-19-2002, 10:13 AM
They could call it j-Segging.:)
But after all is said and done, I understand as a frequent distance walker, your concern with going against traffic. But as a walker I find it far more comforting and logical than having vehicles approaching my back. Segways are not being pushed as motor vehicles, but rather as pedestrians. At the speed of 6 to 12 mph I don't see the problem with facing traffic as you travel. I would do it as a natural extension of my acquired knowledge of walking safety. If they make one capable of speeds in excess of 20 MPH I might find your argument valid to some extent.
I also have been an avid bicyclist and motorcyclist and I would not for a second consider riding either of those against traffic. Almost all paved roads now have an area outside the solid white line that is a perfectly safe operating area for Segway except in the case of a reckless driver either on the Segway or driving another vehicle. But that would be true whether the reckless driver was coming from the front or the back. At least facing him you might have an oportunity to see him and take evasive action. On city streets with no sidewalks and parking on both sides there is another real problem of where to use a Segway. What the best method would be under those conditions I am not sure. It would be dangerous any way you look at it because you would have to enter the automobile lanes.
All this talk of equating Segways to bicycles makes no sense to me. They are very different entities.
charmed
11-19-2002, 10:28 AM
"All this talk of equating Segways to bicycles makes no sense to me. They are very different entities."
On the sidewalks, I agree with you. But on the streets, I think they are very similar. Even at 12 mph. I would not be comfortable riding against traffic on city streets.
At walking speed, perhaps facing into traffic would be more comfortable, I can't decide. Ideally, for me, Segways would travel at twice their current speed (maybe 20-25 mph) and be geared more toward bikepaths and small motor-scooter domain (while retaining their functionality of travelling among pedestrians). This, IMO, would be a much more compelling reason to buy them, and do more toward relieving the problems brought about by cars.
Casey
11-19-2002, 10:49 AM
It looks to me like people are wanting to have Segway Motor Vehicles as opposed to Segway Human Transporters.
As I said above, if they were designed for speeds in excess of 20-25 mph I might be inclined to agree. But they are being sold as pedestrian devices.
As far as speed facing city traffic, there is always the option of going 6 instead of 12 mph if the higher figure is uncomfortable.
Even running which I am no longer able to participate in, I would run against traffic. And yes I was able to run at near the 12 mph speed of a Segway for extended distances. That is a 5 minute mile, just a good brisk pace, not fast.
Segway's manuverability is more comparable to that of a person than that of any other vehicle (my desciption not the legal one).
GlideMaster
11-19-2002, 11:02 AM
I don't think most city police would bother unless you were in an accident or something. Maybe they would just give you a warning. So who will be the first test case?[?]
quote:Originally posted by Podkletnov
So when will we have the first Segway arrest (for driving on a sidewalk in a prohibited municipality)?
bicycledriver
11-19-2002, 12:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by Casey
But as a walker I find it far more comforting and logical than having vehicles approaching my back. Segways are not being pushed as motor vehicles, but rather as pedestrians. At the speed of 6 to 12 mph I don't see the problem with facing traffic as you travel. I would do it as a natural extension of my acquired knowledge of walking safety. If they make one capable of speeds in excess of 20 MPH I might find your argument valid to some extent.
Pedestrian speed is typically about 2.5 miles per hour. The main hazards for pedestrians walking with traffic are at night (since pedestrians do not have lights or reflectors), or when the pedestrian moves laterally without looking back first. This is why it's safer to walk facing traffic than against, most of the time.
Consider that the law says a Segway can go 15 mph, and nothing is stopping Segway LLC from making Segways that can go 15, so I'll use a 15 mph Segway as an counter-example. A 25 mph residential road, with no sidewalks, has sight distances designed to make it safe to drive at about 25 mph and be able to stop for stationary obstacles on the road. If the Segway driver is traveling on the right side of the road with traffic at 15 mph, the 25 mph car driver will close on the Segwayist at speed difference of 10 mph. It is easy for the car driver see the Segwayist, slow down and pass safely because the 25 mph sight distance is 2.5 times longer than it needs to be for this closing speed. Now consider if the Segwayist is traveling on the left side of the road, against traffic. Now the closing speed is 40 mph. But with only a 25 mph sight distance designed into the roadway, the car driver will have much more difficulty seeing and stopping in time to avoid the Segwayist at right-hand curves and other locations. The Segwayist will have to brake hard and probably bail off the side of the road.
The big difference in closing speed between opposite direction versus same-direction traffic is why the leading causes of car-bike crashes for teen cyclists involve contra-flow cycling, why contra-flow travel is against the law at any speed for cyclists, and roads are marked to prohibit opposite-lane passing where sight distances are short.
quote:Originally posted by Casey
On city streets with no sidewalks and parking on both sides there is another real problem of where to use a Segway. What the best method would be under those conditions I am not sure. It would be dangerous any way you look at it because you would have to enter the automobile lanes.
Those aren't "automobile" lanes; they are travel lanes. I cycle about 2000 miles per year in travel lanes on roads without shoulders, mostly commuting to work. A lot of my cycling is in urban areas with narrow lanes; some have on-street parking. I operate in the middle of the lane when there isn't enough room to share the lane. My average speed is about 15 mph. This is standard practice for many experienced road cyclists, especially urban commuters. It's not nearly as dangerous as the public seems to think that it is; rear-end collisions are a tiny fraction of the types of collisions that affect urban cyclists, including the adult cyclists who use the travel lanes. The few urban rear-end collisions that do happen occur in darkness to cyclists with inadequate visibility equipment, or due to drunk drivers. Most urban bike collisions occur at intersections. The Segway laws are written such that they will increase the types of collisions that are already most likely to affect cyclists, while eliminating the Segway driver's right to operate on roadways in a way that effectively reduces or completely avoids these common collision types. The real reason for roadway prohibition is simply to maximize convenience for car drivers who don't like to see slow vehicles on the road (even though compact low-speed vehicles actually boost road capacity). In the struggle between pedestrians and car drivers regarding whom to inconvenience with the Segway, the car drivers won and the pedestrians lost, but the Segway drivers are losing even bigger.
Steve Goodridge
http://humantransport.org
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