View Full Version : electricity without pollution & sewage into water
danumkc
11-12-2002, 02:02 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/05/24/60II/main48284.shtml
(CBS) Wednesday: November 13, 8 p.m. ET/PT
The man who invented the scooter known as “IT” reveals his latest invention and shows Dan Rather how he thinks it will change the world.
Dean Kamen, the man who said his human transporter invention would change people’s lives, has a new invention that, he says, could change the world. The quirky inventor demonstrates for Rather how his latest device creates electricity without pollution and turns contaminated liquid into distilled drinking water.
(I remember Dean discussing this in a magazine article about 6 six months ago. I'm glad they've completed it!!!)
danumkc
11-12-2002, 03:02 PM
So those cups they show Dean Kamen and Dan Rather drinking out of in the previews. It is probably really toilet water turned into drinking water or coffee made with his invention! Kind of cool, eh?
ftropea
11-12-2002, 04:27 PM
Thank danumkc!
I'm pretty excited as it looks like we'll get at least a status report for Kamen's Stirling. I'd bet that it still isn't ready for production quite yet... or at the very least, its not ready for the Segway or Ibot.
We last saw his Stirling in that "True Original" National Geographic documentary...
<html>http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/slides/Pic40.jpg</html>
Still too big for the Segway. You could probably fit it into the Ibot somewhere. My whole take on Wednesday's show is this:
Kamen shows that same Stirling.. tells us what it can potentially do for the world.. mentions FIRST (www.usfirst.org points out that the 60 Min II crew spent time at a FIRST competition filming - and they expect to be featured)... segues into the Segway and that's it. It feels like part of a bigger media ramp up... Maybe they're getting the media ready by reminding them of Kamen and Co... getting the Segway name out there... Are they going to ride another media wave for not?
I don't think so.. If anything, I think they've learned not to do that again.
Regards,
Frank A. Tropea
That is a Segway photo I do not recall having seen before. Where did it come from?
ftropea
11-12-2002, 05:03 PM
Lawrence,
I captured slides from the National Geographic documentary and created a slide show for SegwayChat users here:
http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/slideshow.asp
There was a 5 minute portion of the documentary that talked about Kamen's Stirling and its potential to help change the world. It was towards the end of the film...
Regards,
Frank A. Tropea
ftropea
11-12-2002, 05:06 PM
In that photo.. you see Dean Kamen's hand.. and in the background, a propane canister.. possibily used to heat the stirling for demo purposes. In other words, I don't think we're seeing the "burner" part of the mechanism in this photo. We're only seeing the generator...
Regards,
Frank A. Tropea
I keep being amazed at how this forum is evolving. I didnt notice that slide show earlier. Maybe I am just not observant enough. There were a number of photos I did not see before, eg. early versions of Segways or perhaps toy models?
ftropea
11-12-2002, 05:53 PM
Thanks Lawrence...
Yeah, these features have been around for quite some time. For anyone who hasn't had a chance, you should take some time to navigate through the site using the menu at the top of this page. I'm open to site suggestions... please post them to the SegwayChat Site Related forum and I'll see what I can do.
Regards,
Frank A. Tropea
danumkc
11-13-2002, 03:09 PM
This is a great article, about his new engine and what it means to the world, created back in April.
http://www.nytimes.com/ref/open/innovations/15PATE-OPEN.html
The following are some exerpts.
"At least three Stirling engine patents have already been issued to one of Mr. Kamen's companies, New Power Concepts, which is based in Manchester, N.H. But the interesting thing about the most recent patent application (and it is only an application; the patent hasn't yet been granted), according to several people familiar with Stirling engines, is that it covers the manufacturing of the engine, not just the design.
"This patent was filed by a person who is going into production," "He's fairly confident of his design. This addresses the question of how can we build this economically and faster and reliably after we already have a prototype that costs us millions of dollars."
But so far no company has successfully produced a mass-market version, although Philips Electronics tried unsuccessfully about three decades ago to introduce a Stirling car engine.
Why would an inexpensive engine potentially be important? Stirling enthusiasts contend that it might easily provide power for people in emerging economies for water purification or even Internet access. In developed countries it might allow people to go off the electrical grid and even wean themselves from a dependency on foreign oil.
A second pending patent application from Mr. Kamen's company, No. 20010032452, suggests that his engine can run on fuels ranging from cow dung to nuclear material and everything in between, including propane, natural gas, methane, butane and petroleum.
A Stirling is essentially an external combustion engine — as opposed to the familiar internal combustion engines that run everything from automobiles to large factories.
Maureen Toohey, a lawyer for Mr. Kamen, said his company was not yet manufacturing the engines. "We're still in development," she said. But she pointed out that the nonpolluting Stirling engines can be used to power a lot of things other than scooters. "One of the unique things about a Stirling engine is that it's an incredibly versatile platform that one can do many things with," she said.
One of the difficulties in making a Stirling is that its engine cylinder and heat exchangers need to be extremely resistant to high temperatures and thus are usually constructed of the super alloys used in jet engines. These alloys are extremely hard to use in the manufacturing process.
The Kamen engine appears to be not terribly different from other Stirling engines. However, its heat exchanger — which has projecting "fins" that make it look like a riled porcupine ready to attack — has been designed so that it can be cast rather than welded, a key efficiency.
Even if Mr. Kamen is able to produce a low-cost Stirling engine, Professor Brisson warns, the hurdles are many for any disruptive technology. "It would be so radically different that mechanics wouldn't know what to do with it," he said. "The infrastructure is totally different. It has to be better by a factor of 10 than what is out there; otherwise no one is going to make the transition."
[quote]Even if Mr. Kamen is able to produce a low-cost Stirling engine, Professor Brisson warns, the hurdles are many for any disruptive technology. "It would be so radically different that mechanics wouldn't know what to do with it," he said. "The infrastructure is totally different. It has to be better by a factor of 10 than what is out there; otherwise no one is going to make the transition./quote]
The question is, what might the factor of 10 involve? Energy efficiency? Cost of production? Durability? Applicability? Pollution reduction? Or some combination? How might energy efficiency involving the use of waste heat for highly effective water purification figure in?
ftropea
11-13-2002, 04:01 PM
Thanks danumkc, I remember that article..
I'm reminded of something Kamen once did.. don't remember where I read/heard this... where he called in a "Stirling Expert" to come and speak with his engineers. The expert met with them and said something like..
"I know everything you need to know about Stirling engines. All you need to know is - they don't work.." ... something like that.
I think Kamen's engineers took it as a challenge. Personally, you get a sense from the patents and listening to Kamen that he and his engineers are close.. if not already there.. in terms of perfecting a benchtop version. Now creating that mass market product is another story... maybe we'll learn more tonight, although I don't think we'll see a Stirling engine for a while...
Hope I'm wrong...! :)
Regards,
Frank A. Tropea
Seeker
11-13-2002, 04:21 PM
quote: "The infrastructure is totally different. It has to be better by a factor of 10 than what is out there; otherwise no one is going to make the transition."
I think there is some merit to this point...alternative technologies should be recognizably better than existing technologies,otherwise they stand little chance of supplanting them.
However I would not subscribe to the notion that they must be better by a factor of 10. I think one thing that needs to be there, in order for some products to see the light of day in the market place, is someone who has both vision and capability. It's been my experience that in many business contexts, there are a lot of bright people out there, but only a few people who possess the unique mix of qualities which enables them to bring a bright idea to fruition. Based on what I've seen of Dean Kamen so far, he may possess the intelligence, creativity, and maybe most importantly, the 'sticktoitiveness', which is necessary to bring a Stirling engine into the realm of consumer products.
Seeker
danumkc
11-13-2002, 05:06 PM
"Kamen has said his much-hyped Segway, which currently runs on electric batteries, won't be complete until it's powered by a Stirling ...and has reserved the Internet address mystirlingscooter.com."
http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/nmiren.htm
Posted June 30.02 Miracle Engine Could Change World
The key points of this article are:
"The main problem with Stirlings: getting one started is a lot like waiting for a pot of water to boil. And once they do get going, slow acceleration makes them ill-suited for vehicles. Stirlings are good for low-power applications. "
"Stirlings are the simplest way to turn heat into mechanical energy. The Stirling runs on the principle that gases expand when heated. Stirlings produce no exhaust.
If real power is needed, engineers need to accelerate the heat transfer process. They add linked cylinders, heat exchangers and heat sinks, tweaking every aspect of the engine and the fuel burner to improve efficiency.
This is where Kamen comes in. All his Stirling-related patents and patent applications are concerned with heat management and burner efficiency.
Whether the battery charging is done inside the Segway or at home, using a Stirling to do it would remove the Segway from the power grid, allowing users to recharge far away from a power cord.
Some previously built sterling engines use flywheels. This may be why the company registered some flywheel names.
Casey
11-13-2002, 05:20 PM
quote:"The main problem with Stirlings: getting one started is a lot like waiting for a pot of water to boil. And once they do get going, slow acceleration makes them ill-suited for vehicles. Stirlings are good for low-power applications. "
That all becomes a non issue to me if a stirling is used as a battery charger. Segway could operate on the existing battery charge (unless you somehow managed to run the battery down completely) until the stirling warmed up to do it's job. Slow acceleration would not come into the equation because the Segway would be running on high torque electric motors.
danumkc
11-13-2002, 05:27 PM
Just a thought-
Much like one of the other greatest inventors (Nikola Tesla) of all time, Dean Kamen is a bachelor.
I take it that he dedicates so much time and passion into his work (to better humanity) that he has little to no time for himself. However, much like Tesla, he is also very much a political socialite. As quoted in a recent artical he, "invited the legislative leadership, select agency heads and a few lucky high-level State House aides to his workshop. " This will, in the end, help his inventions come to light. And since this engine will in the near future be in direct competition with oil-producing companies and nations, I'm surprised (and thankful) he's still around.
quote:Some previously built sterling engines use flywheels. This may be why the company registered some flywheel names.
Thanks, danumkc, that piece of info, I do not recall having seen before. Thanks also for:
quote:This is where Kamen comes in. All his Stirling-related patents and patent applications are concerned with heat management and burner efficiency.
I have a feeling that info will be significant when we recieve more details about stirling, especially related to the pollution issue and the use of waste heat.
danumkc
11-13-2002, 06:32 PM
Another parallel to Tesla...
Tesla envisioned, and nearly had completed a power plant (called Wylcif) capable of distributing wireless power, created from electrostatic energy found in our atmosphere. All that was needed to purchase by the consumer was a receiver. The government, of course, did not want it completed and he ran out of funding. "Electric power is everywhere present in unlimited quantities and can drive the world's machinery without the need of coal, oil, gas, or any other of the common fuels." Tesla
Here is a link to the power plant. http://www.frank.germano.com/tunguska.htm
*"Tesla - a Man Before His Time" is a great read describing the author and his many inventions, some that we've seen, and many we have not. *
I think Kamen envisions the same in the sterling engine. If completed it will provide an affordable, emission-free distribution of power with a little bonus, a portable waste water distillaer.
Blinky
11-14-2002, 11:29 PM
danumkc writes..
quote:Here is a link to the power plant. http://www.frank.germano.com/tunguska.htm
*"Tesla - a Man Before His Time" is a great read describing the author and his many inventions, some that we've seen, and many we have not. *
I think Kamen envisions the same in the sterling engine. If completed it will provide an affordable, emission-free distribution of power with a little bonus, a portable waste water distillaer.
I hope that this guys invention and idea gets the same oppertunity as Kamen's inventions have too.
I once heard about this subject before. Thanks for posting the article. Great reading!
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