Seway riding with HEADLIGHTS

[bob yarbrough]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVDNheeocqA


I equipped my Segway with inexpensive (cheap) headlights and mounted them on the lower lean steer frame.

be safe
enjoy your glide

the PONY SEAT guy
Bob Yarbrough

[KSagal]

The lights look good. I hope they work for you.

For me, and gliding at night, the lights need to do several jobs.

1. Make me visible and therefore safer and less likely to be hit.

2. Make the road more visible, and therefore safer and less likely for me to hit something else.

3. There is a definite cool factor. (personally considered)

[eJM]

Four minutes of 2 bright spots moving around a blackness with a little lens flare and some barely recognizable reflection thrown in and I still have no idea what kind of lights or what they look like on the Seg. http://www.grumpsplace.com/images/smilies/didnt_know.gif

[gbrandwood]

Four minutes of 2 bright spots moving around a blackness with a little lens flare and some barely recognizable reflection thrown in and I still have no idea what kind of lights or what they look like on the Seg. http://www.grumpsplace.com/images/smilies/didnt_know.gifYer - reminds me of those little robots flying around from Batteries Not Included! :)

[KSagal]

Yer - reminds me of those little robots flying around from Batteries Not Included! :)

I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but they were not really little robots flying around, they were little models hanging from wires. ;) They did look pretty good though.

If you could actually make little robots like that that actually do fly around, that would really be a thead worth writing about, and I would love to see the video.

[bob yarbrough]

The lights look good. I hope they work for you.

For me, and gliding at night, the lights need to do several jobs.

1. Make me visible and therefore safer and less likely to be hit.

2. Make the road more visible, and therefore safer and less likely for me to hit something else.

3. There is a definite cool factor. (personally considered)




Karl
the criteria you listed would be or at least should be the requirements of any and everyone who would plan a night time glide including myself. As for the "cool factor", that's personal choice. In the first minute of the video if you pause it in time you'll see the lights projecting onto the side fence about 50 feet away (it's an approximation). Two inexpensive (cheap) lights do a very satisfactory job for anyone at night. I do however understand that some desire more. If anyone wishes to discuss the merits of positioning "handlebars" versus "lower lean steer frame" that discussion might produce some interesting comments.


be safe
enjoy your glide
Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[bob yarbrough]

Four minutes of 2 bright spots moving around a blackness with a little lens flare and some barely recognizable reflection thrown in and I still have no idea what kind of lights or what they look like on the Seg. http://www.grumpsplace.com/images/smilies/didnt_know.gif





eJM
I won't go into my visual difficulties here but with what you described of the video I would strongly suggest that you should reconsider any night time gliding with or without headlights.
I'm sure with professional videography the video could
be produced to higher standards for you but alas it's just a youtube video for what it's worth.

As for the lights, like I said they're inexpensive (cheap, $10 at most any store). If you are asking about the lightrack itself it's home-made. I'm inclined not to show the things I've made in their home-made versions for they really are quiet crude by most standards.
I do hope someday that finished prototypes of my projects may be produced but with the "success" I've have in the past two years I'm not gonna be holding my breath for it to happen anytime soon. no sirree


Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[eJM]

My corrected vision is just fine, Bob. I glide day and night, even drive a car and sometimes get up in the middle of the night to go pee without turning on the lights.

You know what the lights look like, so you think anyone viewing the video can see what you already have a vision of in your own head. If you don't want to show actual pictures of the setup or the products you bought, or even do as little as provide a manufacturer name so we can look it up for ourselves, then that's fine. You certainly don't have any requirement to do so.

I had no idea about your "lightrack" because it's not visible in the video. I have a high quality video card and high resolution monitor, so it's not the fault of my system or eyes. I just thought it was a kinda waste of 4 minutes to watch what I thought would be a little more revealing. But that's okay. I got plenty of time to spare. It ain't like I got 1 foot in the grave... oh wait... I DO have 1 Foot In The Grave (http://1footinthegrave.com/).

[bob yarbrough]

My corrected vision is just fine, Bob. I glide day and night, even drive a car and sometimes get up in the middle of the night to go pee without turning on the lights.

You know what the lights look like, so you think anyone viewing the video can see what you already have a vision of in your own head. If you don't want to show actual pictures of the setup or the products you bought, or even do as little as provide a manufacturer name so we can look it up for ourselves, then that's fine. You certainly don't have any requirement to do so.

I had no idea about your "lightrack" because it's not visible in the video. I have a high quality video card and high resolution monitor, so it's not the fault of my system or eyes. I just thought it was a kinda waste of 4 minutes to watch what I thought would be a little more revealing. But that's okay. I got plenty of time to spare. It ain't like I got 1 foot in the grave... oh wait... I DO have 1 Foot In The Grave (http://1footinthegrave.com/).




eJM
My understanding (as little as it may be) after my years of opthamology visits is that even with corrective vision potentially night time vision may present difficulties. I based my statement on your description of the video (including particularly the first minute of the video), since you did not seem to discern a difference in the lighting.

Basically, YES, I know I'm being an "***" by not publicizing my home-made projects, and I know someone will eventually "produce" the same or very similar designs that I did. One of my early contacts offered me web page space on his site, nothing more. Of course that would have meant he would then know the design. A local gentleman somehow associated with Segway of Richmond offered to build a prototype of my "PONY SEAT". I showed him the seat, he took pictures and after a year of repeated excuses with nothing of any substance to show, an additional year of no contact from this gentleman has past.
I hope you may understand my reluctance to show what I have in home-made(only) form. They do work quiet well in that form but until someone can turn these projects into a finished prototype I'll just have to be content to sit on the sidelines.

Thanks,
sorry for my blabbing but it feels good to get it off my chest.

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[eJM]

My understanding (as little as it may be) after my years of opthamology visits is that even with corrective vision potentially night time vision may present difficulties.
Bah! I don't know what you're going on about. My vision, day and night, is just fine. I complained about your video not showing anything more than a couple bright lights shining and bouncing and not showing what the lights look like. You criticized my eyesight. You also make excuses for your video, but it's just a waste of 4 minutes, in my opinion. You could have cut 4 minutes off and the 19 seconds left would have shown everything you took 4:19 to show.

If you want to keep your mount a secret, fine. But you don't even tell us the brand or model of the lights so we can get an idea what your setup looks like. Why waste our time with poor quality video if you aren't going to give us anything more?

Mounting bars and attachments for the Segway are nothing new. Unless you have the ability to design and create something unique and stylish, who cares if someone else comes up with something stylish and unique? If you think someone would steal your ideas, you should patent them or at least consult an attorney.

'Course, I've got no one else to blame but myself for my wasted time on this now. I'll quit while I'm behind.

[KSagal]

The nice thing about a public forum is that a poster can share as much or as little as he wants, and there will always be someone who thinks it was too much or not enough.

I am also familiar with people who say they will do something, who say they know the better way to do this or that, and months later, I have very little to show for my patience, time and money. That is the way the world works.

I wish we all have a good glide, and we continue to have the opportunity to post what we want, and to walk away from posts that do not do it for us...

[bob yarbrough]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your input.

Others (out there in Internet land) have posted videos of handlebar mounted headlights and I wanted to show the difference that the lower lean steer mounting position presents. I believe my video illustrates this point quiet well.

be safe...
enjoy your glide

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[Gihgehls]

Your video shows nothing. That's what people are trying to tell you. Your video is to illustration as silence is to music.

[bob yarbrough]

If one (or a few) chooses not to "see" or "feel the difference" in the positioning of the handlebar mounted headlights versus the lower lean steer frame mounting position that's fine.

Maybe I failed to make my point clear. The video was NOT to be about what kind, type, style or price of a particular headlight or mount. It was made deliberately at night (in the darkness) to illustrate the difference between handlebars and the lower lean steer frame positioning.

It WAS more about the mount positioning (handlebar versus lower lean steer frame), the point of which no one so far has care to address.

Thank you all.

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[Tx-Rider]

Explain what the difference between the two set-ups were. I couldn't tell the difference by watching the video.

[PeteInLongBeach]

I haven't tried positioning a headlight down low yet, but I would imagine you would get less light reflected (due to the angle of approach) and so less visibility of the ground ahead.

[KSagal]

I have mounted lights high and low for years. There have been many threads about the merits of mounting the lights at different heights.

Personally, I have lights mounted at different heights for different reasons.

My primary forward white light (a 5 watt digital segway light made my dinolte) is mounted on my cargo frame over the left wheel. The matching 5 watt rear light is mounted on the same cargo frame facing to the rear.

I have a 3 watt and 5 watt option on the front light, and generally use 5. I have several options for the red rear light as well, and generally use the 5 watt blinking. Many have said it is down right annoying to follow me at night, as the light is so bright and flashes in a way that is hard to miss. I love this light for this very reason.

I also have white lights in the form of a band of bright white LEDs mounted on the platform front, at the point where the batteries meet the platform. I have a matching band of red LEDs on the platform rear.

I further have some bright green LEDs in the batteries void area in the middle of the bottom of the segway. This illuminates the sidewalk or roadway directly beneath the machine.

Lastly, I have a handlebar mounted light or more, mounted at the highest point on my lean steer, actually above all on an accessory bar.

From the bottom up, all have their uses and capacities.

The green LEDs shine straight down, and while this is a personal choice, and perhaps the most fashion driven light system, it is none the less very noticeable to most people. It makes the machine seem to be floating on a green cloud.

The white in front, and red in back line of LEDs is to aide observers and drivers to easily be able to tell if I am coming or going. The segway when seen at night is often hard to judge some of the movements. I prefer that others see me well, and this traditional lighting concept is easy to understand.

Furthermore, because it is only 6 inches over the ground, the angle of lighting is very flat. Because of this, it highlights many surfaces that may otherwise be missed. Any small rock, or uneven sidewalk seam is well identified by its shadow.

Next up in height, over the wheels, so about 2 feet, is my headlight and tail light. Like most with those names, the primary function of my head light is to light my way. This is an angle of lighting that I prefer, again, it gives me a good angle on what I am gliding toward. My tail light is primarily to alert others to my being there, and to avoid getting hit by them.

Both these lights are about the same height as the lights on my car, or there abouts.

Up higher is the light or lights on my handlebar. These are high enough, and move with the leansteer, and become my directable spots, and are used kind of like high beams, to help me differentiate different obstacles in my path.

This last set is bike height, which sets an okay expectation from motorists, but I did not want it to be my only presentation.

Again, most of these lights have been discussed in other threads, but most are from years ago. It is a very valid topic for this ever renewing forum participants.


One other consideration to make when mounting lights is that the machine pivots when moving. If you mount a light that you like on the machine, and finds it shines exactly where you want it to while gliding 6 miles per hour, it will shine closer to the segway when going faster, and farther away when going slow, or something like that. (I prefer to have the lights look out farther in front of me while going faster, and closer to the segway when going slower.) Your focal point needs to be farther forward when going fast, as compared to slow.

[segsurfer]

eJM
My understanding (as little as it may be) after my years of opthamology visits is that even with corrective vision potentially night time vision may present difficulties. I based my statement on your description of the video (including particularly the first minute of the video), since you did not seem to discern a difference in the lighting.

Basically, YES, I know I'm being an "***" by not publicizing my home-made projects, and I know someone will eventually "produce" the same or very similar designs that I did. One of my early contacts offered me web page space on his site, nothing more. Of course that would have meant he would then know the design. A local gentleman somehow associated with Segway of Richmond offered to build a prototype of my "PONY SEAT". I showed him the seat, he took pictures and after a year of repeated excuses with nothing of any substance to show, an additional year of no contact from this gentleman has past.
I hope you may understand my reluctance to show what I have in home-made(only) form. They do work quiet well in that form but until someone can turn these projects into a finished prototype I'll just have to be content to sit on the sidelines.

Thanks,
sorry for my blabbing but it feels good to get it off my chest.

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

Bob, I believe I have met you in the past and seen your seat while shrouded.
A couple of helpful hints:
1. Segway of Richmond is bad news according to everyone I've talked to that's dealt with them.
2. Having designed segway seat myself, do yourself a favor, if you really want to see a prototype built then go to someone impartial to do it. If you are at all concerned about someone stealing your design, then it doesn't make sense to contract someone targeting your same customer demographic to build it. My advice would be to go to a local metal company that's looking for some spare work and have them build it. Personally, I had my design prototyped at Northrop Grumman as part of a mentorship and no one in the machine shop has tried to steal it.
3. Lighten up, this is a segway seat here, it's not as if you've discovered cold fusion. If your seat is so easily replicated that you can't even use it in public without a shroud, then people are just going to copy it off of the patent drawings.
-segsurfer

[PeteInLongBeach]

Furthermore, because it is only 6 inches over the ground, the angle of lighting is very flat. Because of this, it highlights many surfaces that may otherwise be missed. Any small rock, or uneven sidewalk seam is well identified by its shadow.

Interesting, that's an aspect of a low mounted light that I had not considered. This motivates me to finally install a light in place of the emblem on the leansteer pivot. I always thought it seemed like a natural place for one.

[bjorn]

Personally, I have lights mounted at different heights for different reasons.

My primary forward white light...

...long list of lights...

This last set is bike height, which sets an okay expectation from motorists, but I did not want it to be my only presentation.


So, basically, what you are saying is that you're like a mobile xmas-tree when you're out gliding in the (previously) dark? Got it! :)

Would it be possible to hook the lights into the Seg's battery?

I don't need much in the way of lights myself, I live in an area with lots of bike/pedestrian paths, most of which have street lights, so I only need the minimum lights to keep legal and visible, but if you're going to be a shining beacon in the dark, I figure the Seg's battery would be an excellent power source? Shouldn't diminish your range by much either, well, unless you go really crazy. :rolleyes:

[KSagal]

So, basically, what you are saying is that you're like a mobile xmas-tree when you're out gliding in the (previously) dark? Got it! :)

Would it be possible to hook the lights into the Seg's battery?

I don't need much in the way of lights myself, I live in an area with lots of bike/pedestrian paths, most of which have street lights, so I only need the minimum lights to keep legal and visible, but if you're going to be a shining beacon in the dark, I figure the Seg's battery would be an excellent power source? Shouldn't diminish your range by much either, well, unless you go really crazy. :rolleyes:

Over the years, I have used many different configurations and many different powersources.
</O:p
As I see it, there are two basic types of lights. (In this application)

1. Lights for me to see with.

2. Lights for me to be seen with.

<O:p</O:pIn the case of 1 above, I need a beam or headlight, that is strong and bright enough to project a beam to allow me to see far enough in front of me with confidence to be able to glide safely.

<O:p</O:pThis is a powerful light, and while LED, it still consumes power. I have used some 7.2 v power packs that came with the light, and after a few years, had to replace the rechargeable battery. I use this small battery, about the size of 4 c cells taped together, to power the head and tail lights described previously.

<O:p</O:pFor case 2 above, I have used all kinds of things. I really like some of the neon string lights that I have had in the past several years. These use a small transformer, and take the 12 volt DC up to a very high voltage. Unfortunately, they also consume some hefty power, relative to regular LEDs, but far less than some of the incandescent options I have used on and off.

<O:p</O:pLately, however, I have forsaken all but simple LEDs. They consume far less power than any other option that I have seen, and put out a fair amount of light. Most of my lights now include a string of LEDs of various strengths for their obligations.

<O:p</O:pI currently use (in addition to the power pack listed above) a small 1.2 amp hour 12 volt battery. I actually have 4, and always have one on line and at least one spare with me. I like this battery not only because it is a convenient size (about the size of a pack of playing cards) and that makes it easy to stow under my cargo plate, but also because it has a built in radio powered switch.

<O:p</O:pSo, I turn on my segway with a wireless device, and I also turn on my lights with a wireless device.

<O:p</O:pBelieve it or not, just as a person may use their remote to flash the lights or toot the horn in their car to find it in a parking lot, I have used this to quickly find my segway while amongst many others at segwayfests and other events.

<O:p</O:pAnd finally onto to a question in the post I am responding to, no, I do not use the segway batteries for several reasons.

<O:p</O:p1. I do not really want to interrupt a closed system that has many monitors, and draw power in a way that may make the machine suspect some fault. I just do not want to go there.

<O:p</O:p2. The voltage from those batteries is not an easy tap, in that 36v or 72v seems to be what is available, and to transform that down is not worth the effort. Furthermore, if I use only a portion of the battery output, I can tap off at a lower voltage, like maybe even a usable 12v, but then I would not be consuming the cells of the battery evenly, and that is not good for it. The only way around that is to rotate the partial consumption. That to me seems even more complicated than transforming down the voltage.

<O:p</O:p3. Physically, the power is transmitted from battery to segway thru a complicated connector that is sealed to the weather. Tapping in means a potential break in this seal, either thru the connector and seal at the point where the battery and bottom of the base are, or by removing the top of the base and coming out thru that. Either option did not appeal to me.

<O:p</O:pSo, I am happy to supply my own power sources till segway decides to incorporate an onboard tap.

[bob yarbrough]

I have a 3 watt and 5 watt option on the front light, and generally use 5. I have several options for the red rear light as well, and generally use the 5 watt blinking. Many have said it is down right annoying to follow me at night, as the light is so bright and flashes in a way that is hard to miss. I love this light for this very reason..


Karl,


While I think this degree of lighting is going a bit overboard to make oneself noticed, if you stay at and restrict yourself to the end of the glide line I think the excessiveness of it would be acceptable. But if, as you state, others are behind you I would consider this type of behavior to be inconsiderate of others desires and additionally being at the end of the line would help ensure the safety and security of those who have chosen to ride/drive/glide in your company.



Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

[KSagal]

Karl,


While I think this degree of lighting is going a bit overboard to make oneself noticed, if you stay at and restrict yourself to the end of the glide line I think the excessiveness of it would be acceptable. But if, as you state, others are behind you I would consider this type of behavior to be inconsiderate of others desires and additionally being at the end of the line would help ensure the safety and security of those who have chosen to ride/drive/glide in your company.



Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy

I have different settings that I can use, to allow for social interactions when in the middle of a segway group.

I do feel that it is among the best tail lights I have seen in the bike/segway market, and for this very reason, I frequently choose to be at the rear of the line so that it can serve to protect the entire column.

While I shared that people have mentioned that it is annoying to have the rear light blinking in your eyes for any length of time, it is not done to be antisocial, it is done for safety. All that mentioned it have recognize it as such, and therefore there were no complaints.

Still, I do mostly glide alone, and when I do it works for me.

I appreciate the advice regarding lighting and positioning, but you must remember that what one may feel too much lighting another may not, and it is a personal choice. If you do not know where I glide, and how drivers react, it is difficult to tell what is overboard and what is not.

The same could be said regarding the security of accessory designs. If it is not your design, and you are not the person concerned about its integrity, than others should not say you are being too concerned about someone stealing you design. I said others should not, but they did.

So, thanks for the advice, it was good. Have a good glide and keep smiling.

[bjorn]

<O:p</O:pI currently use (in addition to the power pack listed above) a small 1.2 amp hour 12 volt battery. I actually have 4, and always have one on line and at least one spare with me. I like this battery not only because it is a convenient size (about the size of a pack of playing cards) and that makes it easy to stow under my cargo plate, but also because it has a built in radio powered switch.


That sounds handy. I wonder if it, or something like it, might be available in Europe. I already have two remotes on my Seg, the info key plus one that opens the gate and elevator doors to the complex my condo is in.

[KSagal]

That sounds handy. I wonder if it, or something like it, might be available in Europe. I already have two remotes on my Seg, the info key plus one that opens the gate and elevator doors to the complex my condo is in.

I bought it on Ebay I think, several years ago, and I believe they came from China. They came in with small chargers, and the small remotes. (They are all on the same frequency, which makes it easier)

I am sure that if you find the same product, it will ship to Europe as easily as the US.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Interesting, that's an aspect of a low mounted light that I had not considered. This motivates me to finally install a light in place of the emblem on the leansteer pivot. I always thought it seemed like a natural place for one.

I finally did all the measurements and concluded that a Sylvania Dot-it would fit in the leansteer pivot hub in place of the emblem cap. So, I bought one to try. They come already assembled with a magnet inside to facilitate mounting on metal surfaces.

Not only does it fit well and the magnet secures it quite firmly, the emblem cap can still be slipped back in place over it when the light is not in use. The top & bottom tang on the cap have nubs which slip into holes in the hub to firmly secure the cap in place, but this also prevents easy removal of the cap without removing the leansteer. So, I just turned the cap 1 tang clockwise so the nubs don't hit the holes, and yet the cap is still quite firmly in place and can be removed easily enough when the light is desired.

I bought a "classic" Dot-it in silver with 3 LEDs:

http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/LifestyleSolutions/DOT-it®+Lights/DOT-itClassic.htm

It doesn't really cast enough light to be a primary headlight, but it does make a nice accessory / marker / running / (fog?) light to compliment a main headlight up on top. There is also an "swivel" Dot-it which might work a bit better with a little adjustment:

http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/LifestyleSolutions/DOT-it®+Lights/DOT-itSwivel.htm

I'm also thinking that a more reflective surface inside the leansteer hub might help cast more light forward.