Lure of the Yike Bike

[lilnyc]

I feel like a traitor, but here's my position right now. IF the YikeBikes were sold in the US, I would consider selling my Segway in favor of one. Here's why - It's compact, and would likely be viewed as a bike, hence not resisted as much.

I have moved further West where getting somewhere means leaving 20-30 minutes earlier just to walk to the subway. A Yike Bike would allow me to zip there, then fold and take it with me. Even if I zip to the subway via a Segway, it'll stand out more. Plus, how does one get a legally unregulated Segway on a train with cops everywhere? Paying for tickets isn't in my budget.

The elevators in my new place are smaller, but there's more residents. The Yike Bike folds small, which is ideal in cramped spaces.

Don't misunderstand. I love the Segway. I think it's the best transportation alternative invention. My desire for a Yike Bike is based on stupid, baseless Segway resistance, which makes using it difficult.

While moving, I had many tasks to take care of. Most involved running to one store to grab a few items, then to another, etc. I wasted time, money on subway and cab fare, and my feet were throbbing.

I would prefer to have used the Segway, zipped to a store and zipped back home. If NYC would welcome Segway use, I wouldn't even LOOK at a Yike Bike. Take that back. I'd look at it and go, "Yikes! No thanks."

http://www.yikebike.com/site/media

[SegwayDan]

New York City is great, wonderful, unique. That's why so many live there. There's nothing like a proud New Yorker, and I am very honored to know one in you, Lil. You're truly awesome, brave, talented, beautiful.

I wish "the city" would somehow wake up to the Segway PT and somehow embrace it in some important way. But that's a long way off through a lot of old and other "stuff" that may very well take "forever" to bust through.

So, as that's happening (or not), I guess the Segway PT will have to find other cities to embrace it. I still have good hopes for Clearwater. We have the makings for success. Once the economy recovers and people start moving into the new condos downtown along with the businesses to support the downtown residents, we won't have anywhere near the magnitude of pedestrian congestion extant in NYC. The Segway PT may have a chance to proliferate along with a new generation of city dwellers.

I know I'll keep doing my part, being a good citizen and glider, keeping an eye out for reactionary restrictions, trying to keep the door open for the new gliders to come.

Anyway, Lil, I hope you never stop gliding!

[KSagal]

What are the regulations on electric bikes? OR is that considered an electric scooter? Are they legal on the sidewalk, and segways not?

I believe that each person must make the decisions that make the most sense in their lives... Not all the decisions will be the same.

Good luck. Next time they close a major avenue in town, let me know...:D

[dl1955]

The Yike Bike looks like a nifty device. Very compact. The only problem I would see for myself is the 100kg (220lb) weight limit. I am slightly below that limit but with my backpack and such I would be over the limit. I wouldn't replace my Segway with this but add this to my collection of transportation devices. Too bad it's sold in Europe for now. Not a cheap device @ $5300usd. Just might have to start saving my pennies for one of these... ;)

[JohnM]

What are the regulations on electric bikes? OR is that considered an electric scooter? Are they legal on the sidewalk, and segways not?

I believe that each person must make the decisions that make the most sense in their lives... Not all the decisions will be the same.

Good luck. Next time they close a major avenue in town, let me know...:D
The legality of electric bikes in New York is a grey area. The state DMV says they are illegal. The electric bike dealers say that without a specific state law regulating e-bikes the federal regulations are in effect, making motor assisted bikes with a top speed of 20mph ok. Law enforcement seems to be turning a blind eye to motor assisted bikes. Or just can't tell the motor assisted from the human-only powered bikes. A bill is in the NY state legislature that would sort it all out.

The Yike Bike, lacking any human-power option, is not a bicycle by anyones definition. It probably falls under the NYS Class C Limited Use Motorcycle (20mph top speed moped and scooter) laws, IF it were certified by the DMV Technical Services Bureau. Registration would be required, but not insurance or helmets, and riders would only need a regular drivers license. No sidewalk riding.

More info at New York State DMV FAQ (http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/DMVfaqs.htm)

[cyberjack]

I am not sure that anyone here is actually ridden one of these but.... I think in the real world this would be a little scary riding the Yike Bike with the position of riding etc I could seen getting thrown with a good bump and it doesn't look like a soft landing. With my i2 nothing is more pleasant than a nice wide, traffic free surface to ride. However, that is not my reality. I commute to work on my i2 and sidewalks cracked from tree roots, uneven edges, pot holes, broken asphalt, glass and other detritus from lazy people. And this does not even count the clowns who look right at me and then after I have entered intersections accelerate towards me, blow completely red lights, back out of driveways without looking etc. With the great visibility of the i2 I feel much safer than a Yike Bike.

[terryp]

Lil - You might also check out the Bike Friday 'tikit', which is a really cool folding bike. It folds and unfolds literally in a few seconds. If the biking part of your commute would be short enough that you don't need battery power (you look pretty fit), or if electrics are restricted, this might work for you. Bike Friday has a great reputation for quality bikes. Several other companies make folders, but the tikit folds the fastest.

We'd hate to see you give up your Seg, and we'd miss you here if you left, but we understand your situation.

[PeteInLongBeach]

I am not sure that anyone here is actually ridden one of these but.... I think in the real world this would be a little scary riding the Yike Bike with the position of riding etc I could seen getting thrown with a good bump and it doesn't look like a soft landing. With my i2 nothing is more pleasant than a nice wide, traffic free surface to ride. However, that is not my reality. I commute to work on my i2 and sidewalks cracked from tree roots, uneven edges, pot holes, broken asphalt, glass and other detritus from lazy people. And this does not even count the clowns who look right at me and then after I have entered intersections accelerate towards me, blow completely red lights, back out of driveways without looking etc. With the great visibility of the i2 I feel much safer than a Yike Bike.

I agree. And some of the reasons I prefer the segway is the convenience and relative safety of using the sidewalks. I live in a downtown environment, and would not want to be riding a bike on the streets around here...

[KSagal]

Thank you JohnM.

Just because Yike calls itself a bike, it is not. It is an electric scooter, and not likely any more legal than a segway... Neither are actually legal.

If that is your issue, you want to be legal, than this may not be your best choice... Of course, you likely have other considerations as well...

Good Luck.

[Grizzly]

I'd probably buy one if it would go more then 9 km.
For me, half the distance of a Segway would be reasonable.

[luckie]

I believe Yike Bike is more a concept than real solution. I predict they only really "work" on a nice flat surface. This is ignoring they cost $6000, don't balance themselves, and the back wheel is like only 6 inches in diameter. Wouldn't any typical bump be a disaster? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

[Gihgehls]

I believe Yike Bike is more a concept than real solution. I predict they only really "work" on a nice flat surface. This is ignoring they cost $6000, don't balance themselves, and the back wheel is like only 6 inches in diameter. Wouldn't any typical bump be a disaster? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

Your predictions are off. The yike bike youtube channel shows it going over slatted wooden bridges and medium sized potholes.

[KSagal]

.... Wouldn't any typical bump be a disaster? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

Perhaps several teeth?

I have seen the Yike handling some rough terrain, but a video with a professional driver usually always make it look easy... I have seen some folks doing stuff on segways, and making it look easy, that I do not do... (Like 2 foot drops)

I suspect that it can handle some different levels of surface, depending on your experience level, just like other devices...

For me, the question is not what it can handle in its extreme, but what is comfortable and reasonable to navigate, and tiny wheels are not usually conducive do most outdoor realistic environments...

[lilnyc]

Hi Segway Family :)

After posting this, I realized, as someone else mentioned, that the Yike Bike wouldn't be good for carrying anything other than one's self. I feel much safer on a Segway in the streets of NYC.

Re. the legality of electric bikes, as mentioned, I think that they're not as easily detected as something like a Segway, which is obviously not a bike. A Yike Bike would stand out slightly as 'unique,' but I'd bet that if it zipped by, it would be seen as a variation of a folding bike.

That said, I've returned to my senses. I love and will keep my Segway. Yaay!:thumbsup:

[lilnyc]

Thanks, SegwayDan. People like you make this forum so pleasant. :D

[SegwayDan]

Thanks, SegwayDan. People like you make this forum so pleasant. :D

I can say the same for you!

[emrnyc]

Now lets work on the mayor and the city concil....

Hi Segway Family :)

After posting this, I realized, as someone else mentioned, that the Yike Bike be good for carrying anything other than one's self. I feel much safer on a Segway in the streets of NYC.

Re. the legality of electric bikes, as mentioned, I think that they're not as easily detected as something like a Segway, which is obviously not a bike. A Yike Bike would stand out slightly as 'unique,' but I'd bet that if it zipped by, it would be seen as a variation of a folding bike.

That said, I've returned to my senses. I love and will keep my Segway. Yaay!:thumbsup:

[KSagal]

Hi Segway Family :)

After posting this, I realized, as someone else mentioned, that the Yike Bike wouldn't be good for carrying anything other than one's self. I feel much safer on a Segway in the streets of NYC.

Re. the legality of electric bikes, as mentioned, I think that they're not as easily detected as something like a Segway, which is obviously not a bike. A Yike Bike would stand out slightly as 'unique,' but I'd bet that if it zipped by, it would be seen as a variation of a folding bike.

That said, I've returned to my senses. I love and will keep my Segway. Yaay!:thumbsup:


Good to have you back... I was not sure you left! ;)

If it will make you feel better, I am sure I can have Martin make up a small wheel, maybe 6 inches in diameter, that you could drag along behind you... Then you can tell everyone you have a Yike segway....:D Maybe a Yegway?

[Isidore]

Good to have you back... I was not sure you left! ;)

If it will make you feel better, I am sure I can have Martin make up a small wheel, maybe 6 inches in diameter, that you could drag along behind you... Then you can tell everyone you have a Yike segway....:D Maybe a Yegway?


Or even a Segike, depending on if the small wheel is at the front or the back.

Although it's clearly not a Segway, it is not all bad. For a start, how many people have you seen putting a Segway into a bag and carrying it into a building over their shoulder? The Yike weighs less than a quarter of a Segway. Of course the batteries will only get you 10km but I think the Segway, even in its lightest i2 form, is suffering from terminal SUVitis- every single part is much heavier than it needs to be. My number 1 priority for an I3 would be to cut the weight to under 30Kg. Once you start lightening components, the effects work synergistically. A lighter platform results in lighter gearboxes and lighter wheels. These can then have lighter motors and less power so you can get away with lighter batteries. This might mean you can make the other components lighter again. That's why the Tesla is based on a Lotus Elise which weighs under 800kg in petrol engined form. Once you Tesla-ise it, a lot of the components have to get a great deal fatter to deal with the extra weight, but it's still lighter than if it had been based on a more conventional chassis. Colin Chapman's design philosophy was to design too light and add weight to the components that broke. This is what led to Lotus's period of Grand Prix domination, even if Chapman's ideal racing car was one that disintegrated as it crossed the finish line!

Yike are planning free demos at the Gadget Show in Birmingham in April and I really hope that Segway manage to be there also- although they're competitors, they also need to work together to open up the legislative space they both need in a lot of countries.

One of their videos even shows a rider sitting deliberately too far forward and being tipped off the front- the modern high tech equivalent of 'Taking a header' on a penny farthing. Even the round the back handlebars were first seen on penny farthings to reduce the consequences of the header. So the layout, and it's problems are very similar. At least with the backward bars he lands on his feet.

Personally, although I would love to try one, I will stick to a Seg, although I suppose you could always put a bracket on a Seg to carry a folded Yike as as sort of spare wheel.

[KSagal]

You say SUV as if it is a bad thing... I don't feel the same at all...

As with all things, you can build them to the lowest common denominator, or to the highest one...

I don’t agree with your analysis for the lightest and then build heavier where you break… That may work with race cars, but I don’t think it will work with consumer products… Once a product gets a reputation for being easily broken, it is very hard to get past that…

Next, I weigh about 210 pounds, and my naked segway weighs about 120 pounds… At any given point, I am likely to be carrying about 10 to 15 pounds of junk. (treasures all, I am sure)

So, if the payload is already 2 times the weight of the machine, then removing 30 or 40 pounds may seem great, but the overall load will only reduce by 10% or so, if you could possibly do that…

Now, you have a severely reduced performance in your effort to shave 10% off…

In the case of a car, which may weigh 2000 pound, and carry my same 210 pounds with 15 pounds of designer crapola, the ratios are very different… Save 30% off the weight of the car, and you have reduced the payload by almost 30%... A pound for pound savings… (I might point out that electric propulsion systems are often heavier than the internal combustion propulsion systems they replace)

Next, consider that my center of balance and weight is very high, above my waist. Many men carry a great deal of weight in their chest, so the torque requirements on the base of the segway, at the motors, a full meter or more below my center of weight, is quite large… In essence, the segway is spending a great deal of its energy compensating for me, moving me.

A car, with the weight to vehicle to driver ratio so different, spends that far greater amount of its energy moving itself around… It matters much less if I am there or not. Relatively speaking, it spends a small amount of its energy compensating for me, moving me…

So, I do not agree with your conclusions. I believe that while they may make sense in other environments, their application here is far less effective…

[Gihgehls]

Karl, I didn't think the "build light, fix broken stuff" method implied that it would be tested on consumers. I took it to mean "build light and test, then make it so things don't break, then sell it." It would be obtuse (I'm being kind) to assume it means to make a piece of crap product then give it to the market...

With a minimum payload of 100 lb and a maximum of 260, you are definitely near the max safe working load of the machine. However, Segway states that the platform is built to take several tons of stress. Perhaps it is a bit overbuilt?

I'm not really sure about your theories of the center of mass being higher causing the segway to require more torque. The segway is an inverted pendulum, and the lower the mass is (that is, the closer the mass is to the platform) the more it has to work to move. If I wore 80lb boots the segway would be working harder than if I work an 80lb helmet. I'm a bit fuzzy on the math, so I'm willing to be wrong here.

[KSagal]

Karl, I didn't think the "build light, fix broken stuff" method implied that it would be tested on consumers. I took it to mean "build light and test, then make it so things don't break, then sell it." It would be obtuse (I'm being kind) to assume it means to make a piece of crap product then give it to the market...

With a minimum payload of 100 lb and a maximum of 260, you are definitely near the max safe working load of the machine. However, Segway states that the platform is built to take several tons of stress. Perhaps it is a bit overbuilt?

I'm not really sure about your theories of the center of mass being higher causing the segway to require more torque. The segway is an inverted pendulum, and the lower the mass is (that is, the closer the mass is to the platform) the more it has to work to move. If I wore 80lb boots the segway would be working harder than if I work an 80lb helmet. I'm a bit fuzzy on the math, so I'm willing to be wrong here.



I agree that the segway is indeed overbuilt, but for a purpose. And I don't think that the cost in weight is anything that will be substantially be recovered with lighter weight and power in the base, as I said, the machine being the much smaller part of the mass that is being moved is the key here…

My initial response to your 80 pound boots vs helmet argument was to agree with your premise, but upon consideration, I am not so sure… Perhaps I miss used my terms when calling the power outlay torque, as many other factors are involved…

I believe that the effort for a given platform to move a fixed weight, lets call it 80 pounds is a finite number. 80 pounds moved 3 feet takes a fixed amount of energy…

But, the reality of moving a dense and low to the platform (like boots) does ultimately require different power than 80 pounds high and on an arm farther away from the work… There are momentum arms, and weights in balance and other forces at work that need to be dealt with because of the inverted pendulum, that do not exist or are reduced with a shorter pendulum.

The more I consider this, the more I go back and forth… I just don’t know. I hope, as you do, that someone comes up with the math… This much I do know, the inverted pendulum gets far more complex than the simple low dense weight…

But my primary thought of the ratio of machine to payload was not addressed… The machine is already only a 30% or less in total weight of machine and payload, as opposed to a car, where it is more like 90%.

Lastly, you telling me that my curb weight and the fashion accessories I carry are close to pushing the max weight tells you that your presumptions for designing a consumer device are way too light… A machine that stress fractures itself at 25%(?), 50%(?), 100% (?) 200% (?) above stated maximums may seem well and good for you, but are not realistic in the world of consumer goods…

The stress in a fall, or accident on the frame of the segway, or on the wheels is exponentially higher than any number based on static weight alone, so the light and used as directed with will work in a controlled environment like professional drivers in closed courses is very different than something sold to the public at large…

Tolerably weak because it saves a couple ounces of aluminum and pennies may be okay in some environments, but will turn out to not be acceptable to the buying public, nor their attorneys… In my opinion, of course…

[Gihgehls]

It's funny that the platform of the gen1 segway could support several tons when the handlebar can only support a fraction of that. I wonder what their line of thinking was in that case. Were they trying to save weight? Were they trying to reduce cost? It's fun to think about.

[KSagal]

It's funny that the platform of the gen1 segway could support several tons when the handlebar can only support a fraction of that. I wonder what their line of thinking was in that case. Were they trying to save weight? Were they trying to reduce cost? It's fun to think about.

You are making my point about light as possible, and just strong enough and not more so...

You seem to want to make the entire segway more like the handlebar, and I want to make the entire segway more like the base...

[Isidore]

Centre of gravity is irrelevant for an inverted pendulum. With an electric device weight is important-even if you cannot reduce the weight of the payload. Reducing the weight of a Seg by 25% has a small but measurable effect on the total weight being moved and there is absolutely no point making it heavier than it needs to be, it wastes resources and reduces performance- think how great the P was. If you have to lift it into the back of your car you will definitely notice the loss of 10/12 kg and that seriously impacts the utility of the device and where you can use it- If you could get it down to 25Kg with a quick release column and wheels, you COULD carry it in a shoulder bag and that would be a real game changer for the private user market.

[SegwayDan]

Centre of gravity is irrelevant for an inverted pendulum. With an electric device weight is important-even if you cannot reduce the weight of the payload. Reducing the weight of a Seg by 25% has a small but measurable effect on the total weight being moved and there is absolutely no point making it heavier than it needs to be, it wastes resources and reduces performance- think how great the P was. If you have to lift it into the back of your car you will definitely notice the loss of 10/12 kg and that seriously impacts the utility of the device and where you can use it- If you could get it down to 25Kg with a quick release column and wheels, you COULD carry it in a shoulder bag and that would be a real game changer for the private user market.

I think the current i2 is already as light as it could/should be. With all the potential curb dropping and the constant pounding the structure gets on a daily basis, it has to be robust. The chassis is formidable and needs to be so. The gearboxes seem to be robust, and also need to be so.

I don't see much potential for weight saving other than from some possible future change in battery technology or perhaps the use of titanium or magnesium instead of aluminum for the chassis. But that would increase the price which many here abhor.

I am personally grateful to Segway, Inc. for the current design which allows me to glide with relative confidence, enabling me to take much of my attention off of the machine and onto the machine's navigation as well as the environment.

If the P was so great, why didn't many more buy it? Answer: It wasn't that great. Better solution to lifting machine into back of car: Work out with an i2 to develop your muscles, or buy a hauler/Segvator.

Quick release column and wheels? Pipe dreams. Easy to imagine, but difficult (costly) to engineer/manufacture so as to be reliable.

[Bob.Kerns]

Centre of gravity is irrelevant for an inverted pendulum. With an electric device weight is important-even if you cannot reduce the weight of the payload. Reducing the weight of a Seg by 25% has a small but measurable effect on the total weight being moved and there is absolutely no point making it heavier than it needs to be, it wastes resources and reduces performance- think how great the P was. If you have to lift it into the back of your car you will definitely notice the loss of 10/12 kg and that seriously impacts the utility of the device and where you can use it- If you could get it down to 25Kg with a quick release column and wheels, you COULD carry it in a shoulder bag and that would be a real game changer for the private user market.

Not irrelevant, just not important.

The height of the CG changes the time constants. A high CG will take longer to tip over, but will require more motion by the base to restore balance for a given angle of tip. In practice, these tend to cancel out.

It does make a difference, though. It also makes a difference how much of the weight is on the glider vs the unit, and how far spread out those masses are on each.

[Gihgehls]

You are making my point about light as possible, and just strong enough and not more so...

You seem to want to make the entire segway more like the handlebar, and I want to make the entire segway more like the base...

Actually I want to find a nice middle ground.

[Gihgehls]

Too expensive? Make more money.

Too heavy? Get stronger.

You have a bad back? Well, umm... get a better one.

No, I don't think things are always that easy. I don't think there is a simple answer to why the P wasn't bought more. The i series didn't take off until it got the extra range that made it viable for security. The P series never got the extra range, and was slower. Security has driven PT sales, and security wasn't interested in Ps. It used old NiMH batteries. Newer NiMH batteries are much better. The P used different sized parts than the i series, and maintaining and buying the parts for two different models is more expensive than for one.

The Segway landscape from the time when the P was introduced to the time it was discontinued didn't change much. The Segway landscape is much different today. You cannot compare a small Segway from 6 years ago to what a future small Segway could be, the times are too different and the game has changed.

[emrnyc]

From what I've been told alot of dealers up sold to the i series. The i's were only a few dollars than more than the p's so to upgrade to the larger Seg wasn't that hard (longer range, ect).
I'm a proud owner of p133s, 1i67s, XT and i2s and they are all built very well ..... Just my .02 ... Your mileage my vary...



If the P was so great, why didn't many more buy it? Answer: It wasn't that great. Better solution to lifting machine into back of car: Work out with an i2 to develop your muscles, or buy a hauler/Segvator.

Quick release column and wheels? Pipe dreams. Easy to imagine, but difficult (costly) to engineer/manufacture so as to be reliable.

[Isidore]

Not irrelevant, just not important.

The height of the CG changes the time constants. A high CG will take longer to tip over, but will require more motion by the base to restore balance for a given angle of tip. In practice, these tend to cancel out.

It does make a difference, though. It also makes a difference how much of the weight is on the glider vs the unit, and how far spread out those masses are on each.


You're right to say 'not important ' rather than 'irrelevant'- it 's just a matter of changing the the software to deal with the changed rotational moment of inertia and c of g height. On the question of the weight of the i2, am I not right in thinking it is a lot heavier than an i180 with the same batteries? Why? Weight is the enemy of most engineering artefacts, especially ones that move, but even static ones like bridges and buildings.

[KSagal]

There are some pretty mechanical reasons for the i2 weighing more than its predecessor...

There are spacers on either side of the central platform, to make a wider standing position. There is the entire central console, with several more boards that communicate with the infokey, and to house the status LEDs.

I suspect that the wheels and fenders are not much different in weight, but the gear housings with the mounting flange are also likely to be heavier...

Perhaps others will know more about weights ...

[lilnyc]

Now lets work on the mayor and the city concil....

Absolutely.

[Gihgehls]

I'm pretty sure the biggest weight addition was the center console. I can't remember off the top of my head if the LSF is heavier than the gen1 CS+handlebar.

[Isidore]

I'm pretty sure the biggest weight addition was the center console. I can't remember off the top of my head if the LSF is heavier than the gen1 CS+handlebar.

Possibly, but remember that the console only contains what was in the csb- the charger circuit, plus in addition the radio stuff which can't weigh a lot. I suppose it must be the leansteer and the steering mechanism in the console that add the weight?

[Gihgehls]

Possibly, but remember that the console only contains what was in the csb- the charger circuit, plus in addition the radio stuff which can't weigh a lot. I suppose it must be the leansteer and the steering mechanism in the console that add the weight?

Yes. I was only talking about the console's casing. The additional electronics from gen1 to gen2 are insignificant in weight.

[SegwayDan]

You are making my point about light as possible, and just strong enough and not more so...

You seem to want to make the entire segway more like the handlebar, and I want to make the entire segway more like the base...

Here's a photo of the base opened up:

http://homepage.mac.com/adobephile/i2Innards.jpg

Look at that chassis casting. Now that's a piece of industrial art! Look at how nicely those motors are nestled snugly into the center of all that aluminum. Look at those power transistors along the edges of the circuit boards and how they're heat-sunk into the chassis.

Puhleeeeze nobody mess with this thing of beauty that AIN'T BROKE!!!

Go out and work out with your i2 and press that 120 lbs until it's a piece of cake to get it into and out of your car. It's not that big a deal, and you'll be happier and healthier to boot!

[Isidore]

Here's a photo of the base opened up:



Look at that chassis casting. Now that's a piece of industrial art! Look at how nicely those motors are nestled snugly into the center of all that aluminum. Look at those power transistors along the edges of the circuit boards and how they're heat-sunk into the chassis.

Puhleeeeze nobody mess with this thing of beauty that AIN'T BROKE!!!

Go out and work out with your i2 and press that 120 lbs until it's a piece of cake to get it into and out of your car. It's not that big a deal, and you'll be happier and healthier to boot!

Well, that's an acceptable point of view and it is beautifully engineered, no doubt. Perhaps we should also have cars without power steering and no electric start either. Bulging biceps all round, even on women. On the other hand, it would seriously reduce drunk driving, if you can't start it you can't drive it.http://forums.segwaychat.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[SegwayDan]

Well, that's an acceptable point of view and it is beautifully engineered, no doubt. Perhaps we should also have cars without power steering and no electric start either. Bulging biceps all round, even on women. On the other hand, it would seriously reduce drunk driving, if you can't start it you can't drive it.http://forums.segwaychat.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You don't need bulging biceps to lift 120 lbs.

[KSagal]

I am all for people being strong. I don't equate the weight of a segway as being something that should or should not be lifted by most people, however...

I weigh a bit over 200 pounds, so lifting my i2 is about 60% of my body weight, and that is a bit much for a dead lift, and surely for an awkward lift.

Since I know I weigh more than many people, even if a person weighed 150 or 160 pounds, even a 25% weight loss in the base would still having people dead lifting more than half their body weight, and that is excessive.

I have had women on my segway that weigh less than it does. It is hardly reasonable to have them lift it into a car...

So?

I don't often lift my car, or my camper, or my couch, or many other items around me. If I need to move them, I employ tools to do that. Cars have jacks, campers have tow hitches, couches have dollies.

I believe that if a person has the capacity to figure out how to earn enough money to buy a segway, they should be able to figure out how to lift an item that is too heavy, using tools...

I believe I read something that the ability to use tools is considered a pretty basic in the human experience...

Ramps, lifts, segvators, and other tools may seem like a step too far, but they are necessary if the segway is to stay safe... As I see it, the segway should manufactured based on its safety and engineering needs, and the ability to lift it should be secondary...

By the weigh, (:D) I choose my cars on several factors, and while economy is one of them, the curb weight is not... (As previously posted, many electric cars weigh more than their internal combustion alternatives) So while excess weight is a waste, all pounds are not...

[SegwayDan]

. . .while excess weight is a waste, all pounds are not...

I don't think there's much, if any, excess weight on the Segway PT. It's designed mainly around safety and reliability. The chassis casting seems to be the most "generous" of all the components, but shouldn't be a candidate for weight trimming, as it needs to be quite robust to endure severe poundings.

So where else could weight be trimmed? Perhaps the batteries, but only IF and when newer and better technology becomes available which may very well be lighter.

I don't see, then, that there's anywhere else to trim weight significantly, which brings us back to Karl's and my respective assertions that we simply "deal with it" via enhanced physical body strength and/or via "tools."

[Civicsman]

I don't think there's much, if any, excess weight on the Segway PT. It's designed mainly around safety and reliability. The chassis casting seems to be the most "generous" of all the components, but shouldn't be a candidate for weight trimming, as it needs to be quite robust to endure severe poundings.
...


I would love to see the engineering data and analysis to substantiate the opinion that there is not much, if any, excess weight on the PT.

[JohnG]

Well, I don't think anyone is going to give you company proprietary information to help you prove your point. But I can tell you that every component on the Segway PT is there for a reason, usually safety-oriented. The base is engineered the way it is for safety reasons.

There are four primary "heavy" components on the PT -- the wheels, transmissions, base, and batteries. All have been engineered to the Nth degree for safety and reliability and to be as lightweight as possible. No further reductions are possible without serious compromises in these areas, or without substantial cost increases.

[SegwayDan]

Well, I don't think anyone is going to give you company proprietary information to help you prove your point. But I can tell you that every component on the Segway PT is there for a reason, usually safety-oriented. The base is engineered the way it is for safety reasons.

There are four primary "heavy" components on the PT -- the wheels, transmissions, base, and batteries. All have been engineered to the Nth degree for safety and reliability and to be as lightweight as possible. No further reductions are possible without serious compromises in these areas, or without substantial cost increases.

Thanks, John. I find it gratifying to have my own surmise corroborated by someone who was there.

[Civicsman]

Well, I don't think anyone is going to give you company proprietary information to help you prove your point.

Thanks John, but a lot can be done with Finite Element Analysis software without getting anything whatsoever from Segway. However, I don't really need that data anyway, because I am not making any claims. You missed my point there.

However, I CAN say with some assurance that Segway does not seem to be putting much effort into optimization, either in costs or mass. The "Gen II" design has gone FIVE YEARS without any real changes, and if anyone claims that Segway's first release of Gen II resulted in a perfect implementation, then it would only demonstrate their lack of understanding of how engineering works.

[Gihgehls]

But I can tell you that every component on the Segway PT is there for a reason, usually safety-oriented.

http://www.segwaynorth.com/images/x2-Base.png
http://www.segwaynorth.com/images/i2-Base.png

Notice that the x2 has an extra piece of metal on the LSF compared to the i2. When asked if this extra metal was required for the x2, Doug Field replied "it sure looks cool, doesn't it?"

When asked if it provides any extra strength or rigidity, he again replied "it sure looks cool, doesn't it?"

So respectfully, John, I have to disagree with you because I've heard it straight from the horse's mouth. Also, while not significant in weight, the Segway emblem at the base of the LSF probably doesn't do much for safety nor the integrity of the machine.

[KSagal]

Wow,

A casual conversation with Doug Field, and he did not answer your inquires with "yes, that piece is absolutely necessary, or the rider will die"... I guess that proves your point... There is all kinds of wasted weight...

I bet he is ruing the day that he answered that way... Over and over in his head, 'if only I had told that guy it was something we thought was important'...

I will not speak for Doug Field or anyone else, but I am a engineer, and I have had a time or twelve, or more, where a customer may ask me a question about a machine of theirs, and if something has just been repaired, or needs to be repaired, I have been known to minimize the impact of their problem... Some clients, whom I will not lie to, also do not need to know every detail, as it serves no purpose to scare them or play up the catastrophic 'what if' scenario...

Many times they were close to loosing the production of million dollar or more machines, due to any number of problems, from small bearings to multi thousand dollar control boards, yet most of my good clients get something like, " yeah, it needed a part, we put it in, and you are 100% again."... I tell them that, because most of the time, that is really what they want to hear.

I am happy to discuss the details if asked, but the conversation in the hall kind of set of circumstances rarely gets that much detail...

Segway as a company, and as an engineering design house has always played all their cards very close to their vest... I believe that the unwillingness to disclose specific engineering strength or failure data in a conversation with a client means very little...

Of course, each person can assign their own value to both Doug Field's comments as reported by gg, and my assessment to what it means...

And just for the record, I would not glide any extended length with no emblem in front of the base of the lean steer, because without it, there is little to stop foreign debris from entering the chamber where the steering mechanism is... That would be similar in my mind to removing the rubber boot that protects many CV joints on cars, or steering or linkage knuckles... When those debris protective devices fail or rip, I remove them as well...

[PeteInLongBeach]

Well.... so much for the Yike Bike.

[Gihgehls]

Wow,

A casual conversation with Doug Field, and he did not answer your inquires with "yes, that piece is absolutely necessary, or the rider will die"... I guess that proves your point... There is all kinds of wasted weight...

I can't tell if you're being genuine or dis-genuine, but I like to assume the best in people, so thanks!

[JohnM]

I bet he is ruing the day that he answered that way... Over and over in his head, 'if only I had told that guy it was something we thought was important'...

I will not speak for Doug Field ...
But you just did.

[gbrandwood]

Your predictions are off. The yike bike youtube channel shows it going over slatted wooden bridges and medium sized potholes.
After reading your comment, I had to check out the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch#v=uWDlRkIB_uQ

I have to admit the Yike Bike performs really well in those tests (not that they would post videos which made themselves look bad - and of course, all done with an experienced rider). They certainly have something with this product. I love the built in lights and indicators. It has a lot going for it.

The only thing I'll say against those tests are that every pot hole and obstacle they encounter was anticipated. It's when things happen unexpectedly that can cause the real problems. But I guess that's the same on the Seg.

Part of what I love about the seg is the "magic" technology behind it. The Yike will never take its place but I'm sure will be a success. It has many advantages.

Yike Bikes are cited as an "EPV" in the proposed UK legislative changes so they will at least have a market in the UK.

[JohnG]

Gigehls, employees -- including Doug Field -- were very careful in what they tell the public about whether something was there for safety or what-not. Remember, Segway still has enormous legal liability with these machines, so they do not say, "Oh yeah, we put that piece of metal there because in an earlier development version without that piece of metal, one of our engineers broke the handlebars right off!"* I mean, really, you expected him to say that?

Then during the next deposition, Field would be hauled in and asked if they thought it was so important to add that piece of metal why they didn't add this safety mechanism or that one too, which caused that lawyer's client's fall...

You have to keep in mind that no matter how friendly and laid-back an employee might seem to be when casually chatting, all of them have been thoroughly reinforced to keep mum about specifics when it comes to the machines' safety engineering.

* - This may or may not have happened.

[KSagal]

But you just did.

I am sorry that you have so much trouble understanding me. I did not.

[JohnM]

I am sorry that you have so much trouble understanding me. I did not.

Ok Karl, you didn't but words in his mouth, only in his head. But you went so far as to put them in quotation marks (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/577/01/).

"Quack! Quack!", says the duck.

I bet he is ruing the day that he answered that way... Over and over in his head, 'if only I had told that guy it was something we thought was important'...

[KSagal]

Ok Karl, you didn't but words in his mouth, only in his head. But you went so far as to put them in quotation marks (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/577/01/).

"Quack! Quack!", says the duck.

I am sorry again that you did not understand.

I followed your link, and found this application for the single quotes I used...

(Look under extended rules for quotation marks)

Quotation Marks Beyond Quoting

Quotation marks may additionally be used to indicate words used ironically or with some reservation.

I was not saying that he said or thought those words. I was making an ironic joke about what would have satisfied the poster that I was responding to...

I went on to specifically say that I would not speak for him.

I can see how you did not understand... No, wait, I cannot. I can only see that you choose to see it as you wish.

quack yourself.

[Gihgehls]

Gigehls, employees -- including Doug Field -- were very careful in what they tell the public about whether something was there for safety or what-not. Remember, Segway still has enormous legal liability with these machines, so they do not say, "Oh yeah, we put that piece of metal there because in an earlier development version without that piece of metal, one of our engineers broke the handlebars right off!"* I mean, really, you expected him to say that?

Of course I don't expect him to say that! Because it isn't true! :) However, I do understand what you're getting at, that the Segway is still seen as dangerous to some groups, and that Inc needs to be careful about what they say.

On the other hand, the discussion was about mass, and really, the notion that Segway's engineers are perfect and that every component is completely necessary. I think this is a false notion and I posted an anecdote to illustrate it, that's all. I think it is common knowledge that there are different teams at Inc, and one of those teams is focused on aesthetics. In any multi-team project there are compromises, and it is pretty obvious from looking at the structure of the x2 LSF that compromises were made between mass and aggressive styling.

Now I'm curious if anyone has actually bent an LSF from a crash or aggressive riding...

[lilnyc]

Hey gbrandwood, the Yike Bike is now available in the U.S. and Canada. It's on sale for under $4k, and they'll ship before Christmas. So tempting :p

If I hadn't lost 2+ weeks of work, I would have ordered one already, but I would need to try one first, so I'm hoping to find someone in NYC with one.

Oh, and I would use it in conjunction with the Segway -- not in place of.

[gbrandwood]

Hey gbrandwood, the Yike Bike is now available in the U.S. and Canada. It's on sale for under $4k, and they'll ship before Christmas. So tempting :p

If I hadn't lost 2+ weeks of work, I would have ordered one already, but I would need to try one first, so I'm hoping to find someone in NYC with one.

Oh, and I would use it in conjunction with the Segway -- not in place of.That's cool. I'd love to have a go on one. I'll have to make it to the gadget show and try one out. Let us know what you think of it when you try it.

[GadgetmanKen]

I like the YikeBike, but it's range is not good. IMO The weight limit is close to the Segway. The lights look to be pointing upward. It's weight and recharge is excellent. I would gladly add more weight as aluminum tubing/plate to sacrifice the cost of carbon fibre. It will have the same problem selling as the Segway does to cost.

The two tubes on the lean steer is probably for solid structure and probably doesn't add that much weight. I think that the Segway should go modular as the YikeBike does. To make the Gen2 easily liftable they should have the batteries slide in from the front and lock into place to make it more lighter and modular when loading it. Similar as what they are planning with some electric cars where they swap batteries out at charge stations.

[homey]

After reading your comment, I had to check out the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch#v=uWDlRkIB_uQ


oh crappo!... can someone fix this video, i can't get it to load and i really want to see the thing in action :(

[gbrandwood]

oh crappo!... can someone fix this video, i can't get it to load and i really want to see the thing in action :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWDlRkIB_uQ

Don't know what happened to the link

[homey]

thanks Brandwood for finding a new link

Clearly this vehicle has many advantages with superior maneuoverability and is surprisingly stable for what looks like a ride on the handle bars of a bicycle. Unfortunatly I would never buy one for more than the cost of a good bicycle simply because it's all wrong to look at. There is nothing remotely appealing that meets the eye. Imagine yourself mounting or walking this across a busy intersection, you would look more like an idiot than we do now.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: for practicality and functionality
:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:for aesthetics and a free hand

homey says no thanks

[Isidore]

thanks Brandwood for finding a new link

Clearly this vehicle has many advantages with superior maneuoverability and is surprisingly stable for what looks like a ride on the handle bars of a bicycle. Unfortunatly I would never buy one for more than the cost of a good bicycle simply because it's all wrong to look at. There is nothing remotely appealing that meets the eye. Imagine yourself mounting or walking this across a busy intersection, you would look more like an idiot than we do now.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: for practicality and functionality
:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:for aesthetics and a free hand

homey says no thanks

If you read the publicity material on their website they advise against use on anything steeper than a 5% gradient! The other serious issue is braking performance. They only show it competing against a bike on wet grass, where it wins only when the bike is using only its back brake. This translates a a minimal level of retardation which would be quite unsafe in the real world. A seg will outbrake a pushbike on tarmac, a much more realistic braking test. The yikebike looks fun, but the present design is not a real transport solution.

[Tx-Rider]

It looks uncomfortable to me.

[homey]

The yikebike looks fun, but the present design is not a real transport solution.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the highly polished finish product and the effort and skill it took to produce Yikebike as an invention. I only wish I had people and support to present my inventions to industry this well. There was a massive amount of work to get this a far as it is and my hats off to the people who made it happen. It's really just a shame it looks so silly and I'm not about to look any more ridiculous moving down the sidewalk than I do now. For the money one must have something mysterious with a little style. Yikebike is going to have a harder time gaining market appeal in the US than a Segway does, don't buy stock in this motorized bicycle company.... looks sell over function every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVyyKe7wEXg&feature=fvsr

[GlideGuy]

It looks uncomfortable to me.

+1 very awkward seating position, IMO.

[Isidore]

+1 very awkward seating position, IMO.

The problem they have is that to avoid a really spine crushing ride, they have to put the rider almost directly over the front wheel, to put as little weight as possible on the very small rear wheel. This means that the centre of gravity is very high up and very far forward. This in turn means that any steep slope or heavy braking and you will 'take a header' in penny farthing terminology- you will do a face plant, or at least you will come off the front. Can't see a simple way round this while maintaining the unique selling point, the fact that it folds and can be carried over your shoulder.

[KSagal]

I would stop short of calling names of what people look like on this device, as that is clearly in the eyes of the beholder.

I will say that it holds no appeal to me, in large part because it just does not look comfortable nor graceful to me.

Furthermore, with a balance point being so high and forward, compared to the small front wheel, and tiny rear wheel, and the issues listed in previous posts.

It seems to me that hard braking on a step downslope is the same as forcible dismount.

This is a two wheel vehicle, not unlike a bike, but the geometry while interesting, does not seem that stable, and the videos of people trying it seem to confirm that.

I wish them luck, if it is a good product. I am curious enough to want to try a ride on one, but not much more. Mostly, I want to try one so if someone wants to bring it up in conversation, I know what I am talking about.

[Gihgehls]

At least if you tip forward, you can't go over the handlebars. The default riding position is already over the handlebars!

Also, if you have to dismount fast there is no LSF to get tangled in.

[KSagal]

At least if you tip forward, you can't go over the handlebars. The default riding position is already over the handlebars!

Also, if you have to dismount fast there is no LSF to get tangled in.

Yes, but if you don't get your feet off the pegs fast enough, the machine will land on your back, as you skid on your face.

What is the forward max speed of this thing anyway?

Also, many of us have not only experienced the downhill brake thing, but what about the resistance at the wheel? A couple inches of sand or snow? How about a wheel in a grate, or against a curb? What about the far side of a pot hole?

I am thinking about the fact that the machine must slow down to a degree when it falls into, and then climbs out of a pothole. The rider is effectivly on top and in front of the machine, so when it slows down fast, there is a good chance for an airborn rider. Unless the machine speeds up quickly to catch up to the rider ( as in the case of the segway) then the problem increases.

How do you control the speed of this unit? Is it with a hand grip on the handlebar that is under your butt? IF so, how much control will you have if your butt is no longer on the seat that is on the handlebars?

[goldwing_midland_tx]

I thought it looked a little unstable while riding. Maybe it was because they are sitting on the handlebar and going slow. Like others have said, I wouldn't want to stop too quick or I would be getting thrown off. Of couse, if the Segway stops too quick you can get thrown off also. :eek:

[KSagal]

I thought it looked a little unstable while riding. Maybe it was because they are sitting on the handlebar and going slow. Like others have said, I wouldn't want to stop too quick or I would be getting thrown off. Of couse, if the Segway stops too quick you can get thrown off also. :eek:


Gary, here I will have to differ with you. The very act of stopping a segway requires you to shift your weight to the rear. This makes if very hard to fall off, as long as you have a clue what you are doing.

If a segway hits a curb, you surely can fall off, but that is hardly the same as trying to come to a controlled stop at the bottom of a hill.

On the Yike Bike, and most other conveyances with binder breaks, you stop with your body in whatever position you want, and the machine stops from the wheels. If you are going down a steep hill at the time, you will flip off forward.

There is no shift in weight as part of the mechanism of stopping.

I suspect that if you hit a curb with this as well, the outcome would not be pretty, but neither machine is built on the premise that you will ride into things.

Erratic behavior on any device can be dangerous. I was speaking of operation within reasonable everyday parameters. (Small mamals not withstanding)

[goldwing_midland_tx]

Gary, here I will have to differ with you. The very act of stopping a segway requires you to shift your weight to the rear. This makes if very hard to fall off, as long as you have a clue what you are doing.


Unfortunately I wasn’t talking about a controlled stop which is why I had the little surprised face. :eek:

I agree with you otherwise.

[Tx-Rider]

(Small mamals not withstanding)

Thanks Karl. Thanks a lot. :)

[homey]

I thought it looked a little unstable while riding. Maybe it was because they are sitting on the handlebar and going slow. Like others have said, I wouldn't want to stop too quick or I would be getting thrown off. Of couse, if the Segway stops too quick you can get thrown off also. :eek:

I think if i could choose which machine to be ejected from after looking at a dozen Segway crashes i would much prefer to fall forward on the YikeBike or for that matter sideways just not backward LOL.

[KSagal]

Thanks Karl. Thanks a lot. :)


Sorry, I couldn't help myself...:D

[KSagal]

I think if i could choose which machine to be ejected from after looking at a dozen Segway crashes i would much prefer to fall forward on the YikeBike or for that matter sideways just not backward LOL.


I understand what you guys are saying, but I think you are missing my point.

In the normal course of operation, there is no particular reason to get ejected from a segway.

In the normal course of operation, there is every lilkelihood of being ejected from a Yike Bike.

Even in their video of how it works, a hard stop (not a panic or accident) includes being ejected from the bike.

I have had segways for 7 years now, almost 8, and there is not much reason to get ejected that do not include several mistakes on my part.

It is true, if I glide straight into a brick wall with either device, I will not be quite as pretty as I am tonight, but that is not my point, and even so, I will take my chances on the segway, because it is controlled intuitively. A big ole' scary thing is ahead, we instinctively lean back. On a segway this protects us, on a Yike Bike it does not.

A couple responses have compared falling from a Yike to falling from a Segway, and that is my point. You WILL fall from a Yike. You need not from a segway. If the point is that you will fall from either, that point is faulty, because of all that I have pointed out in the control systems. If you still expect to fall from either, then you do not control your machines as I do.

I drive cars a lot. I drive as a matter of work, and for pleasure. I suspect that all of the cars I have bought in the last 15 or 20 years have had airbags. (in addition to the driver himself)

Airbags are a good thing to have if you have an accident. They protect you after you have proven that you do not know how to drive.

I suspect that they all also had antilock brakes. (Since I usually go thru a car every 2 years, I have had too many to account for here) I like antilock brakes because they help you to avoid needing to use the airbag. A person can drive, and be a good driver, and use antilock brakes. This makes them different from airbags.

The control of a segway is comparable to using antilock brakes.

Preferring to fall off a yike bike is comparable to wanting a pleasing scent in your airbag.

[homey]

Karl... wasn't really giving it that much thought. I just noticed in the vid when the guy braked sharply or if as you say (hit a wall) or bigger pot hole your natural body defensive motion un-obstructed by anything wrapped around our feet or positioned in front of us (like a segway) keeps us from extending our limbs when we sense we are about to collide or fall. In a pefect world no one would push the limits of either machine but given human nature and knowing myself as well as riding street bikes for 20 years I stand by my statement... better to ditch on this screwy looking YikeBike than my segway, i would sustain less injury. I can't believe i'm defending it now, it's so ugly looking :o

[GadgetmanKen]

I'm with Homey on this one. If you notice in the video at the end , the Yike Bike stops abruptly and the rear wheel lifts. Propelling the rider upward and onto his already outstretched legs. So he's on his feet. Question is would leather soled shoes or tennis shoes be better in a sudden stop? Aren't most Biker boots leather soled? Would it be better to slide standing up and then slip and land on you tail or grab with tennis shoes and possibly twist, stick and stumble and then bust a knee or something?

What really bothers me is what happens when you are turning and the one wheel slides out from under you, say in pea gravel or water, etc.? It also showed him stopping quickly. I want to see him start from stopped and slowing gradually to a stop. How tricky is it then?

Karl, I kept thinking of windbags for some reason ? :) JK

[Gihgehls]

I've leaned back hard enough on my segway that it wasn't able to stay up. I didn't lose traction, but it did deposit me on to my rear end. I stopped hard enough that the Segway shutdown because of too much angle. So, it is very possible to stop too fast on a Segway and fall off. The difference between this and a Yike is that you fall off the back and not the front.

[cms1001]

I"d Like To See It>

[Tx-Rider]

I"d Like To See It>

There is a video in this thread.
Pg 7, #61

[lilnyc]

KSagal - I finally tried a Yike Bike! The nice folks from New Zealand traveled to NY for a few days and offered rides/lessons.

My Perspective as a Segway owner:

Benefits Over the Segway -

Flexibility. Sometimes when I am gliding, I come upon situations that aren't best for gliding (heavy traffic - pedestrian and/or vehicle, rough street conditions). In such cases, I'd fold the Yike Bike, then resume riding in improved conditions.

Storage. Being able to take it with me into the office would be ideal. The bike room guard already told me that sometimes they take breaks abd don't watch the bikes *whaat?* :eek:

Portability. Being able to hop onto public transportation or into a cab if it starts raining while out is really invaluable for this NYC girl.

Power Failure. If it fails, pick it up and carry it home.

The Segway's Advantages Over the Yike Bike -

Balance. On the Yike Bike, the faster you go, the better your balance...um, no. That doesn't work for me in the city where 'open roads' are something you may see on a screen saver. In NYC, you're always stopping, starting, adjusting speed, ducking and dodging. The Segway is perfect because you can travel as slow as a pedestrian, stop easily, turn 360 degrees and not lose balance as it's self-balancing. VERY important!

Safety. To be fair, I only tried the Yike Bike for a few minutes, but I feel safer on the Segway. I'm too short for the Yike Bike's recommended 5'3" requirement. By contrast, my height is a non-issue on the Segway where I'm also more visible in traffic. I love how it handles the streets on NYC.

Distance/Battery Life. The Segway soars in this area. See specs on either site.

That said, I would (and may) still get a Yike Bike for the portability aspect. I just wish they made the seat adjustable. I'd have one today.

[KSagal]

Great assessment. It is nice to have a review from one of our own, instead of a salesman...

Thanks.

[lilnyc]

I"d Like To See It>

Real use video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DrQZrJubhg

I have a video of me on it, but no time to upload right now. one day the ability to upload from the phone to any site (not just YouTube) will exist.

[lilnyc]

Great assessment. It is nice to have a review from one of our own, instead of a salesman...

Thanks.

My pleasure :)

Honestly, I've been researching a LOT of alternatives, and the Segway for me just seems to be the best fit. If the Yike Bike were a standing scooter (which it really is an electric scooter with a seat - not a bike), it would work.

The other toy I was considering was the spnKiX. That got horrible reviews! They're being sold for $700, and one guy hated them so bad (heavy, hard to learn) that he sold them for $100.

But every time I swipe my metro card to travel 1.7 miles to/from home, I know I've wasted money, especially as a Segway owner. I have to just stop being fearful of what may happen and use it, park it in the bike room and call it a day.

With the $4,000+ saved from NOT buying the Yike Bike, I'm sure I can cover the insurance deductible to replace it if something happens :)

[Bob.Kerns]

Thanks for the info, Lil. My wife is currently looking at transportation alternatives for getting around LA -- she just got a Razor scooter (non-electric) to try out. She found the eBikes she looked at to be too heavy, but I'll have her take a look at the Yike Bike.

She's a shade under 5' 2" (I'm 6' 6", if you can picture us together!), so your size-related observations are relevant.

But a Segway wouldn't work for her, because of size and space and stairs. The issue for her would be more the security at her weekday apartment than at the office.

(But it would sure be nice to have a second Segway back here when her job ends!)

I notice that Segway of Central Florida is a dealer, if some of you Floridians wanted to check it out.

We have a dealer in Walnut Creek, so we might try checking it out if she's interested, but it may be hard to schedule into her limited time at home.

But a lightweight, folding Segway is what I'd like to see. I'm thinking four small wheels -- yes, still a self-balancing Segway, as odd a that sounds -- a vastly smaller platform, lower speed....

I've mentioned four-wheels in the past, but probably nobody has any idea what I'm talking about. You're used to thinking of four wheels ganged together in a rigid aragement, perhaps slightly decoupled with a suspension.

But picture a platform attached at the midpoint of the two wheels on each side. (You can do better than that -- much better -- but let's keep it simple).

You still have the self-balancing platform. What you get is MUCH smaller wheels, MUCH less wheel weight as a result. You can use narrower, hard-rubber wheels for more efficiency, without crushing toes (within limits) by transferring weight to the rear wheel and opposite front wheel.