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bvelke
08-15-2008, 04:35 AM
A demonstration of a new custom mod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYzuSRwlii8

Not a bad basketball performance either <g>.

-Bob




wwhopper
08-15-2008, 07:18 AM
We had two hands free i2s there, gliding all over the place. Then you could have seen them up close and in person!

Next Year! ;-)

Sal
08-15-2008, 07:45 AM
Funky-Move has their stainless Steel version of legsteer (which I had the opportunity to try). Though,I think there's a net safety in having handlebars, it's pretty cool. Even for us experienced gliders, it takes a bit of getting used to.

It's available for purchase at Segway of Indiana.

-Sal

nora k
08-15-2008, 07:45 AM
zee germans left theirs at segway of indiana on consignment!

bvelke
08-15-2008, 11:17 AM
We had two hands free i2s there, gliding all over the place. Then you could have seen them up close and in person!

Regarding the one that I posted: I saw it, rode it, and helped design it.

All roads don't lead to SegFesT ;-)

-Bob

cadavev
08-15-2008, 12:13 PM
Regarding the one that I posted: I saw it, rode it, and helped design it.

All roads don't lead to SegFesT ;-)

-Bob


i love what it looks like great design and i agree while SegFesT is great all roads dont lead to it and i have ridden dr martys seg the hands free is cool! good luck with yours

mark1qhorsey
08-15-2008, 12:54 PM
Bvelke
It's really nifty. Nice mod that really shows off the amazing balancing capabilities of the PT. This was a design which Inc probably abandoned early on. Leg-lean steer actually may be safer than the standard lean steer config, because thiis offers the glider the possibility of jumping forward off the machine in hard stop abnormal situation...assuming you aren't up against the wall :)

I think gurus like Steve Jobs would approve of it as better design - and it pretty much takes the "wings" out of the potentially competing winglet design... Bravo. When where is it available?

bvelke
08-15-2008, 05:16 PM
When where is it available?
Maybe never - unless we can find an underwriter to insure it or a manufacturer who is willing to do so.

segsurfer
08-15-2008, 09:00 PM
zee germans left theirs at segway of indiana on consignment!

I'm surprised you haven't taken it home. It certainly looks fun.
-segsurfer

segsurfer
08-15-2008, 09:04 PM
I really like itbeme's handsfree set up, very clean.
-segsurfer

mark1qhorsey
08-16-2008, 09:48 AM
There are a lot of aftermarket items, hitches, trailers, kid-packs, lean seats, ad nauseum that are being produced and sold through Segoutlets. Think of marketing it to them - through an existing outlet. The lean steer is likely of too minor impact on seg sales to set up and sell with a new LLC. Get it out there for the advanced users community! Yeah, and share the fun. :o


Maybe never - unless we can find an underwriter to insure it or a manufacturer who is willing to do so.

drmarty
08-16-2008, 09:04 PM
I haven't used handlebars for well over a year. Everyone who wanted to try it did so at Segfest (I hope.) Olaf (der German) and I rode each others around the hotel. FUN.

There is no learning curve to handsfree if you can ride a Segway. Just get on and Glliiiiide.

It is an experience not to be missed.

DrMarty
Can I carry that for you? I have a free hand.

KSagal
08-16-2008, 10:20 PM
I haven't used handlebars for well over a year. Everyone who wanted to try it did so at Segfest (I hope.) Olaf (der German) and I rode each others around the hotel. FUN.

There is no learning curve to handsfree if you can ride a Segway. Just get on and Glliiiiide.

It is an experience not to be missed.

DrMarty
Can I carry that for you? I have a free hand.


I can attest to Marty's great machine... I too rode it, and have been in the cellar making my own hands free seg... Thanks for the great ideas, that are really not that hard to replicate...

drmarty
08-26-2008, 03:46 AM
Go Karl.


marty

MiamiBeachPatrol
09-03-2008, 02:31 PM
Karl, bvelke, funky-move, segway of indiana, Drmarty, itbeme, olaf....
Any of you skilled innovators wanna post some up close and personal photos?
We could all compare pros/cons of each LeanSteer frame......... and improve on subsequent designs.
No one's gonna get rich modifying the proprietary frame originating from Segway Inc. ... but together we could come up with something really coooooool.
--- And very possibly (probably) better than the original.

From their videos, Toyota seems to have done a pretty good job on the legsteer frame itself i.e. on their smallest "Winglet" (their attempt on mainstreaming their copycat model).
... Could also be an opportunity to show Jobs (Steve Jobs) the creative collective brain of this community.
--- Just a thought.

I know I'd be interested in adopting the creme de la creme of the LeanSteer on all my i2s.

Michael

KSagal
09-03-2008, 03:50 PM
Karl, bvelke, funky-move, segway of indiana, Drmarty, itbeme, olaf....
Any of you skilled innovators wanna post some up close and personal photos?
We could all compare pros/cons of each LeanSteer frame......... and improve on subsequent designs.
No one's gonna get rich modifying the proprietary frame originating from Segway Inc. ... but together we could come up with something really coooooool.
--- And very possibly (probably) better than the original.

From their videos, Toyota seems to have done a pretty good job on the legsteer frame itself i.e. on their smallest "Winglet" (their attempt on mainstreaming their copycat model).
... Could also be an opportunity to show Jobs (Steve Jobs) the creative collective brain of this community.
--- Just a thought.

I know I'd be interested in adopting the creme de la creme of the LeanSteer on all my i2s.

Michael


This is a good idea. I have made a couple versions of this handsfree rig...

I used some lexan to make the device that needs to be held by your legs, but then I broke it, using it kind of like a handle to guide it up a ramp when I was not on it... I am continuing to modify and improve...

I would love seeing the 'leg cups' or grips from other machines...

I think it was itbeme who had some great padded medical device looking ones, and Dr. Marty had some plexiglass/lexan ones that were better than mine. I wonder what others use...

JBeattie
09-04-2008, 12:04 AM
I would be very careful trying to build and sell a handsfree set up.

Ulrick and Reinhard own the patent on the handsfree control. Building one for personal use is one thing. Trying to build and market is another. I know they spent a lot of time and money developing the idea. I have theirs and its amazing and is build as you would expect a German to build such a piece.

In speaking to them I know they will/are actively pursuing anyone they find infringing on their patent.

bentbiker
09-04-2008, 12:26 AM
I would be very careful trying to build and sell a handsfree set up.

Ulrick and Reinhard own the patent on the handsfree control. Building one for personal use is one thing. Trying to build and market is another. I know they spent a lot of time and money developing the idea. I have theirs and its amazing and is build as you would expect a German to build such a piece.

In speaking to them I know they will/are actively pursuing anyone they find infringing on their patent.
If you are referring to a modified Gen1, I can understand a patent. Given that some people have been know to steer the standard handlebar by using their knees, it seems inconceivable to me that a patent could be issued for a shorter padded version of the "handlebar" between your legs.

JBeattie
09-04-2008, 12:33 AM
If you are referring to a modified Gen1, I can understand a patent. Given that some people have been know to steer the standard handlebar by using their knees, it seems inconceivable to me that a patent could be issued for a shorter padded version of the "handlebar" between your legs.

the guys at handsfree-transporter.com have gone further than that.

theirs telescopes for height adjustments. the saddle can be moved foward and back, it also can butterfly in and out to fit the distance between your legs.

its not just a cut down post with a plexi saddle.

like i said the do it yourself project is cool. but making and selling a modification you may very well find yourself getting a letter from their patent lawyer.

Its just a heads up.

KSagal
09-04-2008, 09:08 AM
I would be very careful trying to build and sell a handsfree set up.

Ulrick and Reinhard own the patent on the handsfree control. Building one for personal use is one thing. Trying to build and market is another. I know they spent a lot of time and money developing the idea. I have theirs and its amazing and is build as you would expect a German to build such a piece.

In speaking to them I know they will/are actively pursuing anyone they find infringing on their patent.


I have never seen their machine, nor do I care. If I modify a segway in a manner that appears to be similar to what they have, regardless of their patents, it will not be an action they can win...

If they designed a piece that modifies another persons marketed device, and it fits a particular need, another who fits that need and did not buy and copy their design is safe. Even if they come up with a nearly identical modification... There are just so many adjustments that may be practical, and if you have them or not, they cannot patent an idea that is already in the public domain...

MiamiBeachPatrol
09-04-2008, 12:06 PM
Patent schmaten... there are design patents and there are utility patents and trying to defend a patent unless you are a large corporation is an uphill climb at best.
And then there is the issue of defending a patent not registered in the U.S.A. ?

Many people spend a lot of time and money in the pursuit of a patent.
There's a big difference between the 2 types... and often, little is required to acquire a new patent. Often, depending on whether it's "design" or "utility", a little modification is all that's needed to acquire a new "original" patent.

The mistaken impression that others can't... or won't copy, unfortunately, is a lesson hard-learned.

Ulrick and Reinhard's attorney might try contacting the Toyota/Sony team that developed the hands-free control on their Winglet. --- See how quickly they "cease and desist."

Good luck... (although Karl may have said it more bluntly)
:-]

As a point of information, I was referring to the development for this collective community's "personal use".
(I, for one, am not going to try to develop an ancillary product for an original Segway Inc. design)

MiamiBeachPatrol
09-04-2008, 12:44 PM
Hey Jon Beattie.......... I just checked out your German-connection's model.
I also checked out your own website.
Pretty cool. Both your site and theirs.
Clearly they've found a market. Good luck to them.

So you're a steadicam operator, eh?
I'm very familiar with the steadicam. Great product.

Seeing as you use their handsfree model for your work, I trust you certainly know its utility.
It appears that it might not be necessary for us to improve on previous designs...
From the looks of it, I might be sold on their design already.

I just sent them an email (even though it was listed as "rental(at)handsfree-transporter.com")

Do you know what they charge for their i2 frame?
i.e. Just the vertical member with the knee-cups.......... I don't need the steadicam supports/accessories.

Glad I checked you out!

Michael

MiamiBeachPatrol
09-04-2008, 12:53 PM
Karl,

You might be interested in checking them out.
They've already found an apparently happy niche market... might save you a lot of time and energy.

KSagal
09-04-2008, 08:29 PM
Karl,

You might be interested in checking them out.
They've already found an apparently happy niche market... might save you a lot of time and energy.


At your suggestion, I have checked out both sites... Very nice.

Still, the idea is in the public domain. I have seen handsfree segways since the 2004 segwayfest. (which by the way, makes the idea not patentable, even if the hardware is...)

It is nice that they want to try to claim ownership of this concept, but it simply is not so.

They do seem to have a nice looking, clean looking handsfree knee gripping addition to the stock segway... good for them.

It will not affect my segway at all...

Part of my issue, since I have been now riding handsfree, is that handsfree is not for me in all circumstances... Rough terrain, full on 12.5 mph for long glides, and other considerations have lead me to want to have both the option of a handlebar for my hands, and a leg steer unit...

I will work a bit more over the next few days and weeks, and they need not worry, mine will not infringe on any possible pattent they have on that equipment. As for the idea, my address is in my profile, and they can contact me directly if they want to sue me...

I do not begrudge them the want to protect their products, but some things are just not doable...

JBeattie
09-04-2008, 08:32 PM
Reinhard's stearing control is 3000-4000 euro's. I think. You'ld have to double check with them.

Its far beyond cutting a post. the base post is built and welded like a tank. And the top saddle controls are strong and highly adjustable. The leather saddles are really comfy.

I posted some behind the scenes of a movie I am working on in another thread here.

JBeattie
09-04-2008, 08:36 PM
At your suggestion, I have checked out both sites... Very nice.

Still, the idea is in the public domain. I have seen handsfree segways since the 2004 segwayfest. (which by the way, makes the idea not patentable, even if the hardware is...)

It is nice that they want to try to claim ownership of this concept, but it simply is not so.

They do seem to have a nice looking, clean looking handsfree knee gripping addition to the stock segway... good for them.

It will not affect my segway at all...

Part of my issue, since I have been now riding handsfree, is that handsfree is not for me in all circumstances... Rough terrain, full on 12.5 mph for long glides, and other considerations have lead me to want to have both the option of a handlebar for my hands, and a leg steer unit...

I will work a bit more over the next few days and weeks, and they need not worry, mine will not infringe on any possible pattent they have on that equipment. As for the idea, my address is in my profile, and they can contact me directly if they want to sue me...

I do not begrudge them the want to protect their products, but some things are just not doable...


Ulrick and Reinhard developed handsfree units 4 or 5 years ago. They did it for the gen 1's. Gen 1 had the paddle controls for turning.

Like I said if you a do it yourselfer do whatever you want.

But if one thinks they can market the unit themselves. Thats were a conflict can come up.

KSagal
09-04-2008, 08:52 PM
Ulrick and Reinhard developed handsfree units 4 or 5 years ago. They did it for the gen 1's. Gen 1 had the paddle controls for turning.

Like I said if you a do it yourselfer do whatever you want.

But if one thinks they can market the unit themselves. Thats were a conflict can come up.


I do not want to argue with you about this... I wish them luck with their projects...

But at the same time, do not think I have not been around this stuff for several years myself...

You cannot patent that which is already in the public domain.

I do not know the date of their patent. If you publish it, I will honestly tell you if I saw a working hands free unit before that or not... Either way, I have seen many home built units, that did not infringe on that same idea...

If a person modifies an existing patented something, it does not preclude a different person from buying that same patented something, and also modifying it. Even if both products seem similar, there is no infringement if they are truly developed with no knowledge of the other...

I do not have any plans to commercially develop this idea anyway, but that is not the point... I will not tolerate someone coming into my little world and say that something that I created was inappropriate because someone else that I did not know about did a similar thing...

JBeattie
09-04-2008, 09:12 PM
I'm not looking to get into an argument. I respect everyone in this communitty. I am new to the forum only been here a few months.

Here's a link to the first discussion about the Handsfree Transporter from 10/05. Note that it is stated that it was 2 years of development at that point.

http://www.steadicamforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2277&hl=handsfree+transporter

Not knowing that someone else has developed a similar idea to one you have. Gets you no where when they hold a patent. Yes you can patent an idea. You have 17years to build market and can go after anyone who is infringing on it.

This has happend with the boys at Segway and it was an ongoing issue for years with Garret Brown (inventor of the Steadicam) as well.

http://steadicam-ops.com/ also has a copy of the video from 10/05 the first public use of the handsfree transporter with Steadicam.

When you read about ulik and reinhard you know they were using it for live music and comedy acts for awhile before Steadicam got into the mix.

Like I said I respect everyone here. I know you are a bigtime poster and that you are very active in your world. I'm not trying to rock the boat. Just passing along some info.

JBeattie
09-04-2008, 09:18 PM
Hey Jon Beattie.......... I just checked out your German-connection's model.
I also checked out your own website.
Pretty cool. Both your site and theirs.
Clearly they've found a market. Good luck to them.

So you're a steadicam operator, eh?
I'm very familiar with the steadicam. Great product.

Seeing as you use their handsfree model for your work, I trust you certainly know its utility.
It appears that it might not be necessary for us to improve on previous designs...
From the looks of it, I might be sold on their design already.

I just sent them an email (even though it was listed as "rental(at)handsfree-transporter.com")

Do you know what they charge for their i2 frame?
i.e. Just the vertical member with the knee-cups.......... I don't need the steadicam supports/accessories.

Glad I checked you out!

Michael

Yeah when I roll into set people can't get enough of it. I let most people that ask to try try it. Its a great tool that saves me a lot of energy.

The way I did it was I purchased my x2 from segway in DC (they were great Steve's the man). Then got the lean control and hardmount from Germany.

Works out best for your pocket that way.

The lean control goes on with the same bolt system that comes stock.

here's a link to my youtude page with some behind the scenes stuff
http://es.youtube.com/user/JBeattieSteadiway

KSagal
09-05-2008, 12:00 AM
JBeattie, We do not have to agree on this...

Thank you for the information. These surely are interesting modifications and devices... I again wish you luck with your projects...

Bob.Kerns
09-05-2008, 01:50 AM
I'm glad you guys have agreed to disagree. But let me point out a bit about patent law.

I'm going to be unintentionally US-centric here; European patent law differs in some ways; probably not important to what I'm saying, but I don't really know.

First, as someone pointed out, there are design patents and utility patents. Design patents protect the form -- shape, color, etc.

Utility patents cover how something works. The fact that, say, a hands-free leansteer device is patented tells us nothing. You have to read the patent, and the specific claims, to know what would and would not infringe. While it *might* cover every conceivable approach to steering without hands, it probably does NOT cover the actual concept of steering without hands.

Most likely, it'd cover something like how to make the saddle parts comfortable and keep you from tipping forward or backward off your platform as you move your weight fore and aft. Specific design points.

So it would be quite possible for Karl to come up with a new way to do this, and not infringe. Or to infringe but not know it. Or to even infringe on a patent which has been applied for, but not yet issued.

A patent for which there is prior art on a particular claim, may have that claim invalidated. If I recall correctly, this can occur both via USPTO review and via the courts. Prior art is a bit tricky, but in the US, if it's been used or known prior to the act of invention, or in use or published within one year before the patent application, it's prior art.

Years ago, a certain modem company had some patent application they struggled to get through the USPTO. But by the time they succeeded, the only claim that made it through was the one the USPTO didn't understand. All the hardware claims were gone, but they managed to patent the idea that if you sent nothing for a few milliseconds, then sent some code sequence (AT), and then paused again, you could distinguish between commands and the actual data being sent.

I had prior art. I even dug it up at the request of the attorneys, but they flaked out on me, so I didn't get involved further. But it could have been overturned.

It also shouldn't have passed the obviousness test, in my opinion, but given that it did make it through the USPTO, other companies could make similar modems, but had to have a license to use this command technique. But if you came up with a different way that didn't fit the claims (say, surrounded by uninterrupted @@@@'s, and inserting a pause from the software if @@@@ was found in the data), then you'd not infringe, even though you were doing effectively the same thing -- just not in the particular way covered by the claim.

Anyway -- without looking AT THE ACTUAL PATENT, none of us can say whether Karl's design would infringe or not. Or whether there's prior art or not. Indeed, what is actually patented, and whether the patent actually protects anything useful or not.

MiamiBeachPatrol
09-05-2008, 02:34 PM
Okay,
I had a couple of correspondences yesterday with Reinhard regarding his product... and I've taken a cursory reading of the full text of his (their) U.S. patent.
I could go off on several tangents ... e.g. the patent office's failure to insist that ALL numeral references within the text actually appear in the drawings... my belief in the veracity of a point or two within Reinhard's emails but......... I won't. :-]

Suffice it to say that the main body of the patent appears (from my reading) designed to dissuade others from developing a similar product i.e. to use a Segway to carry a person wielding a Steadicam camera.
According to Reinhard "the heart of our invention is the legsaddel" .... (??? ... Any Germans reading this?)
As is typically the case, the patent wording is written in broad strokes... in my view simply trying to protect the niche market (i.e. of Steadicam operators) they appear to have found.
(Bob Keans or anyone interested... email me directly at MiamiBeachPatrol@aol.com, and I'll steer you to the actual patent... so YOU can do all the heavy lifting)

I could have spent hours re-reading it and going over the details, but as I have no desire to build a competing product, I declined to do so.

Having said that, it appears that Reinhard & company have put together a very utilitarian design.
According to Reinhard, Jackie Chan (the actor) uses their paired-down version ("the steering stick" as he called it) and is their "gatekeeper" to the China market. Also aboard their design team apparently, was/is Garrett Brown, the inventor of the Steadicam.

I've been involved, over the years, in building a couple of products from scratch. For me, the issue here is simply finding the best possible hands-free unit available... or, barring that, to have someone (other than me) build one.
To broadly paraphrase Dean Kamen referencing the Segway itself ... "It's not that difficult to build a two-wheel self-balancing machine.... the trick is to build one that's inherently safe and operates consistently in that manner". ---The earliest of Segway designs were extremely temperamental and often behaved erratically.

The real value, in my opinion, is often in the details... e.g. the comfort of the "leg cups" over the long haul (by the way, only one of Reinhard's is cupped... the other is flat), the ease in mounting/dismounting... all the little nuances that we don't even know to address until we've built maybe a half dozen or more prototypes... blah, blah, blah.

Although their U.S. patent wasn't actually granted until this past December (12/04/2007), clearly the body of their work, expressed in the detail of both drawings and text, indicate they've been utilizing (and selling)their product for years... (5 years according to Reinhard)... and I don't doubt that.

Moreover, because of what appears to be, a proliferation of "happy" Steadicam operators (including Jon Beattie) using their product, I'm inclined to go ahead and purchase it.
They really DO appear to know what they're doing (have done).

Here's the downside:
With the exchange rate from Euros to U.S. dollars........ including shipping.......... it's nearly a grand (around $950).

Jon, a couple of last things:
What's your experience over rough terrain... at top speed?
Do you wish you had a handlebar to grab on to at times? ---- And finally, if you'd be so good as to share what you believe are the pros/cons regarding Reinhard's "steering stick", I'll remember you in my Will.

Michael

Bob.Kerns
09-05-2008, 02:52 PM
The date was sufficient for me to locate it, by also searching for "Segway" in the description. (Otherwise there were 3581 patents on that date)

US Patent #7,303,032

I haven't read it yet.

There are 32 patents that reference "Segway", including what looks like it may be the SegHauler, and hydrogen power..

MiamiBeachPatrol
09-05-2008, 03:28 PM
Good luck Bob.... I'm sure you'll be more thorough (and patient) than I.

Michael

JBeattie
09-05-2008, 09:24 PM
Mike,
I can tell you Reinhard's system is worth every penny. I too got boned with the exchange rate. But with what I needed for Steadicam it was quite a bit more.

As for Reinhard's unit. It is really built like a panzer. The lean control in much more heavy duty than the original handle bar. You have a lot of options in setting the height, width and fore aft placement of the saddles.

I like it a few solid inches over the knee.

I find that with the handle bar I could hit 15mph. With the lean control it really keeps you at 12.5. At first i found I would bend my body in half forward to try and get up to speed. But that is totally wrong and is all pelvis.

I've road on rough bouncy, grassy ground no problem. I want to hit the beach next.

Honestly I have zero complaints about Reinhard's system. It is a quantum leap from a cut down handle bar with plexi.

I still need a skid plate, heavy duty kickstand and a hitch kit for a riskshaw.

MiamiBeachPatrol
09-06-2008, 01:54 PM
I thought I posted this last night. (It must have disappeared.)

Anyway Jon... thanks for all the info. --- You've sold me.

Unfortunately I'll have to wait.
I received another email from Reinhard yesterday.
They're temporarily out of supply i.e. they won't be getting any more
"steering sticks" (the paired-down version) for 6 weeks... maybe longer.

When they arrive I'll be getting one and will post my experience with it.

I'll be demo-ing it in the middle of the night... about 3 a.m. on Hollywood Beach as soon as it comes in. (That's in case something goes wrong... no one will see.) I'll let you know how it handles the sand moguls.

Again, to echo Karl, thanks for your input.

Michael
SegwayHollywood.com
SegwaySouthBeach.com

mark1qhorsey
09-13-2008, 03:50 PM
Great to hear that you like it. So does Jackie Chan apparently.

Have you noticed any erratic behaviors emerging in the i2 using
a cut down, modified lean steer with different weight from the original?

How are the leg steer cups for stepping off, forward as well as to the back?

Does the machine keep rolling when you step off?

Do you feel fatigue if you ride for awhile with legs planted into the steer cups?

Pictures show Chan "balancing" on it with his arms out. Was that for show
or is there some need to have arms out?

Is there a time-breaking problem from full speed to zero?

Thanks for your thoughts. Mark1


Mike,
I can tell you Reinhard's system is worth every penny. I too got boned with the exchange rate. But with what I needed for Steadicam it was quite a bit more.

As for Reinhard's unit. It is really built like a panzer. The lean control in much more heavy duty than the original handle bar. You have a lot of options in setting the height, width and fore aft placement of the saddles.

I like it a few solid inches over the knee.

I find that with the handle bar I could hit 15mph. With the lean control it really keeps you at 12.5. At first i found I would bend my body in half forward to try and get up to speed. But that is totally wrong and is all pelvis.

I've road on rough bouncy, grassy ground no problem. I want to hit the beach next.

Honestly I have zero complaints about Reinhard's system. It is a quantum leap from a cut down handle bar with plexi.

I still need a skid plate, heavy duty kickstand and a hitch kit for a riskshaw.

JBeattie
09-14-2008, 12:25 AM
Great to hear that you like it. So does Jackie Chan apparently.

Have you noticed any erratic behaviors emerging in the i2 using
a cut down, modified lean steer with different weight from the original?

How are the leg steer cups for stepping off, forward as well as to the back?

Does the machine keep rolling when you step off?

Do you feel fatigue if you ride for awhile with legs planted into the steer cups?

Pictures show Chan "balancing" on it with his arms out. Was that for show
or is there some need to have arms out?

Is there a time-breaking problem from full speed to zero?

Thanks for your thoughts. Mark1


As for the jackie's arms. You don't have to do the tight rope arms out stance at all. You can have your arms anywhere you want, pockets, folded, out, over your head, whatever.

Stepping on is easy being that the steering is limited. Step offs the back are easy. You can step off the front, but I find that your CG shifting forward will make the unit "follow" you forward.

Little brushes of your leg against the steering stick don't effect you much. But the unit can move a little while getting off. Using the "8 ball" in the front allows you to hold the unit straight while getting on or off.

The saddles aren't in the way of moving on and off.

The first few days after riding for hours you will feel a little fatigue in your legs.

Reinhard's system may actually be alittle heavier than the standard handle bar. Its weight doesn't make my x2 feel any different to me.

getting up to speed is just as quick. You just have to remember to use your pelvis not your shoulders and waist to lean.