New Battery Technology from Stanford

[Dave Bittner]

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html

Interesting news on a battery technology that could yield much higher battery capacity than current systems. The inventors are claiming up to 10x the capacity of current lithium ion batteries by combining already mature technologies, and hoping to get to market quickly.

[SEGsby]

Interesting. Wonder how sensitive to vibration silicon nanowires are...

SEGsby

[ryanj0]

This certainly looks like it could revolutionize everything electrical!


Jeremy Ryan

[Desert_Seg]

The biggest problem that I envision would be the possibility of an electrical discharge causing a fire. This, potentially, could mean no travel with the new batteries.

I would need to do some more research into this but the potential is obviously there or they wouldn't be starting a company.

Steven+

[polo_pro]

I spotted this today too. Dave beat me to posting it...rep points for you!

I share alot of the concerns mentioned above, but I think one of the biggest hurdles is going to be scalability. Sure, you can grow/throw together some silicon nanowires, but what happens when you try to grow/construct a cubic inch of the stuff?

ps - If they're worried about migrating Li ions pulverizing the silicon, you'd think vibrations are going to be an issue too.

[drmarty]

Remember, there is little new under the sun.

The other maker of Lithium Iron Phosphate cells (besides Valance) is A123 systems. Their trademarked technology is called "Nanophosphate" Tada!

They use nanotechnology (a different one) to acheive their results. Smaller molecules gives more surface area so yada, yada, yada. Their technology is from MIT.

So while interesting and different this "new" cell seems more of a variation on a current technology than comlpetely new. Who knows? I am all for them, however. We (the World) needs all the advances we can get. I want to drive my Segway all week then recharge it while I go to the restroom and then glide off again.

Marty

PS anybody have bad Lithiums? Since we can't get info on our cells from Inc. or any other way we need old ones to work on. We will pay to ship 'em. Help.

Parts is Parts.

[SEGsby]

I have a bad battery I've replaced. But lets see what the Dealer wants to do with it, first. No one will be at LLC to make decisions until after the holidays.

SEGsby

...
PS anybody have bad Lithiums? Since we can't get info on our cells from Inc. or any other way we need old ones to work on. We will pay to ship 'em. Help.

Parts is Parts.

[drmarty]

Segsby,

Thanks for getting a hold of me. As I said I will probably be up Wednesday. I just wanted to acknowledge your contact here to thank you in public for helping out. And it will be good to not glide with you this weekend.

:cool:Lets Ride:cool:
Marty

[bentbiker]

Marty,
Aren't you treading on David's (don't know his screen name here) toes by doing an autopsy? Seriously, we await your analysis. Good luck to us all.

Thanks, Segsby. You deserve 850 rep points for contributing the battery. Sorry that means INC must have told you to take a hike.

John

Segsby,

Thanks for getting a hold of me. As I said I will probably be up Wednesday. I just wanted to acknowledge your contact here to thank you in public for helping out. And it will be good to not glide with you this weekend.

:cool:Lets Ride:cool:
Marty

[SEGsby]

Bentbiker: You would be guessing correctly. :)

As you know, the good news is that the second replacement appears to be working quite well. The first one threw red lights after finishing the deep charge cycle and was promptly returned. Red lights bad! The seemingly high failure rate for Segway Batteries is disconcerting, at best...

Dr Marty: You can call me on my cell and stop by the Studio at any time. If you drop by at 12 on Wednesday, we could do lunch at the Famous Firehouse Cafe, not far from Gold's Gym. My treat. :)

SEGsby

[GyroGo]

Remember, there is little new under the sun.

The other maker of Lithium Iron Phosphate cells (besides Valance) is A123 systems. Their trademarked technology is called "Nanophosphate" Tada!

They use nanotechnology (a different one) to acheive their results. Smaller molecules gives more surface area so yada, yada, yada. Their technology is from MIT.

So while interesting and different this "new" cell seems more of a variation on a current technology than comlpetely new. Who knows? I am all for them, however. We (the World) needs all the advances we can get. I want to drive my Segway all week then recharge it while I go to the restroom and then glide off again.

Marty



There is a lot of interesting and exciting stuff going on with batteries... lots "new under the sun's" infinite energy (yeah, well "infinite" at least as far as us Earthlings are concerned... for all our practical purposes).

It's amazing how far batteries have come in the last 15 years. Hot news includes everything from fast charge nano tech lithium ion (e.g. Alti), rumored civilization changing Hyper-Caps (e.g. EEStor - remember John Doerr's "atoms not bits"? - yeah I know, we may see the sun run out first before this horse comes in) and nascent development efforts that have far to go to prove commercial viability (e.g. this Stanford announcement, and a host of other efforts).

I'm sure we've discussed this before, but one thing that's clear to me: the storage and distribution problems of hydrogen leave that technology far over rated... More efficient and renewable (green source) electricity to the grid... then download to better batteries sure look like a superior candidate to me vs. H. I'm not just talking hybids, but 100% EV.

Keep watching.


P.S. btw for you noobies (about 99.99% of you in my book), the "Atoms not bits" quote by Kleiner Perkin's VC honcho John Doerr and was the subject of a good deal of discussion (what does it mean?) back in theITquestion (does this site still censor that phrase? - i'll disguise ... the. i t . question dot com ). And I think it may have evev been been in Kemper's Ginger book... but I don't remember clearly.

[polo_pro]

I'm sure we've discussed this before, but one thing that's clear to me: the storage and distribution problems of hydrogen leave that technology far over rated... More efficient and renewable (green source) electricity to the grid... then download to better batteries sure look like a superior candidate to me vs. H. I'm not just talking hybids, but 100% EV.

I think the only place for hydrogen is in a scram jet! OK, maybe a rocket too, but after seeing what powers the sub-orbital vehicles, I'm starting to rethink this.

ps - What do you think of hydrogen used in a fuel cell?

[drmarty]

Segsby,

OK, I am shooting for Noon tomorrow. I'll be the guy without handlebars.

:cool:Lets Ride:cool:
Marty

[SEGsby]

Awesome. Did you want me to bring the spare LSF and grips to work with me, too?

ttyl,
SEGsby

Segsby,

OK, I am shooting for Noon tomorrow. I'll be the guy without handlebars.

:cool:Lets Ride:cool:
Marty

[GyroGo]

I think the only place for hydrogen is in a scram jet! OK, maybe a rocket too, but after seeing what powers the sub-orbital vehicles, I'm starting to rethink this.

ps - What do you think of hydrogen used in a fuel cell?

I'm not familiar with your reference to sub-orbital vehicles... what are you saying?

But anyway, there are many types of fuel cells. I have not heard of one that looks commercially feasible yet, while cleaner energy (compared to burning internal combustion engines) to grid to EV battery is looking realistic soon (granted still production and cost issues - but much closer to commercialization than fuel cells AS FAR AS I KNOW ... and I don't particularly follow them) Otherwise, I'm all for any technology breakthoughs for cleaner, cheaper, safe and convenient energy, whatever it is.... but who isn't.

[polo_pro]

I'm not familiar with your reference to sub-orbital vehicles... what are you saying?

But anyway, there are many types of fuel cells. I have not heard of one that looks commercially feasible yet, while cleaner energy (compared to burning internal combustion engines) to grid to EV battery is looking realistic soon (granted still production and cost issues - but much closer to commercialization than fuel cells AS FAR AS I KNOW ... and I don't particularly follow them) Otherwise, I'm all for any technology breakthoughs for cleaner, cheaper, safe and convenient energy, whatever it is.... but who isn't.

Ah...I should have been clear. Space Ship One by Scaled Composites used a rubber and laughing gas fuel system. The big win about this is that none of the components are toxic (unlike most rocket fuels)! So maybe hydrogen won't even be appropriate for rockets someday...oh, but to be clear, hydrogen isn't toxic. Just explosive in an atmosphere with oxygen.

ps - I guess laughing gas is probably explosive too, but I don't know how that compares to hydrogen.

[SEGsby]

Now that comment makes sense. :) The KneeSteer (tm) is FRICKIN' A M A Z I N G !

I was shocked how firm and stable it felt. Not a single transient wiggle, or minor body shake translated down to the platform at all, while standing on it. I felt perfectly in control. But I was a tad timid about going full speed using it, unlike you. :) Using it on the big loading ramp was quite a unique experience.

Thanks so much for letting me test ride the LSF mod! The closest thing I can think to describe it in words. It's like... wearing form-fitting robot shoes. Was really odd not holding anything in my hands. The sense of open freedom of motion was quite different than the normal Segway configuration allows. I think handleless operation is the future. And as much as I loath to even mention it-- I think it has a HUGE potential for Segway Polo.

Thanks for the visit and chat over lunch! Always great to see other gliders. I eagerly look forward to seeing your other Segway experiments as they develop.

Best of success with Herbie's old parts...
SEGsby

Segsby,

OK, I am shooting for Noon tomorrow. I'll be the guy without handlebars.

:cool:Lets Ride:cool:
Marty