Reputation Points.

[KSagal]

I just checked my reputation points again. (GO to User CP in the menu bar above, and scroll to the bottom of the page...)

And again, people slam or praise, but I don't know who.

For me, since it was suggested a long time ago, I include my screen name in all comments, as I believe that is the adult thing to do...

A complement is nice, and harmless enough if it is anonomus, but when someone says mean things, or slams another for expressing an opinion, that is the act of a very petty person...

I believe that the reputation section should automatically include the author. It should not depend on people acting like adults, because those that do, are not the ones taking cheap shots.

How does everyone else feel? Is there a value in allowing these cheap shots to continue? I should imagine if a clear consensus were to be raised, then the management of this site may respond.

Of course, my opinion may be in the minority. If that is the case, I will continue to lable my comments, non the less...

[eJM]

In my many years of using forum software that allowed rating people or topics, I have always seen abuses. Some of the abuse was between friends who help each other get more points than they deserve, some was by what I refer to as drive-by rep shooters, who leave bad rep without revealing their name. Occasionally, this happens to me - I've had so-called friends ask me to give them good rep in exchange for the points they gave me and I have been the victim if drive-bys. Just in the last couple of days I received 5 drive-bys here from people that don't have the balls to tell me who they are. I also received one good rep by someone who did leave their name.

The forums I own at the present do not use reputation points. I figger if you can't tell someone publicly or privately that they either make you feel good or bad, then you don't need a forum feature to do it for you. Communication skills are not a given. You ain't born with them, they have to be learned and developed. Half of communication is listening (or comprehending what you read). The reputation system of vBulletin forum software makes it too easy to shirk the responsibility as community members to to learn how to convey our feelings and nearly impossible to correct any misconceptions once anonymous comments are made.

My preference would be to discontinue the use of the reputation feature. In any case, I don't use it to give good or bad points. I try my best to speak my mind either openly or in private - usually openly because I got very little to hide.

R'gards,

Jim

[KSagal]

In my many years of using forum software that allowed rating people or topics, I have always seen abuses. Some of the abuse was between friends who help each other get more points than they deserve, some was by what I refer to as drive-by rep shooters, who leave bad rep without revealing their name. Occasionally, this happens to me - I've had so-called friends ask me to give them good rep in exchange for the points they gave me and I have been the victim if drive-bys. Just in the last couple of days I received 5 drive-bys here from people that don't have the balls to tell me who they are. I also received one good rep by someone who did leave their name.

The forums I own at the present do not use reputation points. I figger if you can't tell someone publicly or privately that they either make you feel good or bad, then you don't need a forum feature to do it for you. Communication skills are not a given. You ain't born with them, they have to be learned and developed. Half of communication is listening (or comprehending what you read). The reputation system of vBulletin forum software makes it too easy to shirk the responsibility as community members to to learn how to convey our feelings and nearly impossible to correct any misconceptions once anonymous comments are made.

My preference would be to discontinue the use of the reputation feature. In any case, I don't use it to give good or bad points. I try my best to speak my mind either openly or in private - usually openly because I got very little to hide.

R'gards,

Jim



I would have left you a rep point for that info, but the system would not let me! LOL

[hellphish]

I fully agree. I believe that any sort of forum feature that denotes status should be turned off, except of course for moderator and admin titles. Anytime you have measurments like rep or post count, it often becomes a contest, and thus a useless metric. Join dates are plenty.

[KSagal]

I fully agree. I believe that any sort of forum feature that denotes status should be turned off, except of course for moderator and admin titles. Anytime you have measurments like rep or post count, it often becomes a contest, and thus a useless metric. Join dates are plenty.


I almost agree to it all. One thing I am not so sure about is post count. There are many people who lurk and know a great deal and do not most much. They may have a low post count and tremendous value. Other, simply bloviate constantly, and have a high count...

Still, a person with a very large number of posts will at least have the advantage of knowing the system, so a new person comming to a forum like this, and seeing a person with 12 posts, vs a person with 1200 posts, will have a sense of senority...

Still, I don't care what is on the forum of this nature, as long as everything leaves a trail back to the poster... The only name we have here is a screen name anyway... And that is another thing that drives me crazy... Who among us is really that important that they legitimately need to insulate themselves from their real name? Cute titles are fun, but I see no value at all in making believe you are someone else... Of course, this has been already discussed, and some like the ability to make believe they are someone else, or that they have a different name... That is their right, I just don't value it...

[BillPaxton]

In my many years of using forum software that allowed rating people or topics, I have always seen abuses. Some of the abuse was between friends who help each other get more points than they deserve, some was by what I refer to as drive-by rep shooters, who leave bad rep without revealing their name. Occasionally, this happens to me - I've had so-called friends ask me to give them good rep in exchange for the points they gave me and I have been the victim if drive-bys. Just in the last couple of days I received 5 drive-bys here from people that don't have the balls to tell me who they are. I also received one good rep by someone who did leave their name.

The forums I own at the present do not use reputation points. I figger if you can't tell someone publicly or privately that they either make you feel good or bad, then you don't need a forum feature to do it for you. Communication skills are not a given. You ain't born with them, they have to be learned and developed. Half of communication is listening (or comprehending what you read). The reputation system of vBulletin forum software makes it too easy to shirk the responsibility as community members to to learn how to convey our feelings and nearly impossible to correct any misconceptions once anonymous comments are made.

My preference would be to discontinue the use of the reputation feature. In any case, I don't use it to give good or bad points. I try my best to speak my mind either openly or in private - usually openly because I got very little to hide.

R'gards,

Jim
eJM, I was one of your 5 that left a negative. I did not realize, because I don't read every forum, that it doesn't tell you who leaves rep points. I don't dislike you, but I strongly dissaproved of how you addressed Segsby, who I have alot of respect for, in another topic - but I think my comment to you spoke for itself and you may address me publicly or privately as you wish.
Nonetheless, I apologize that my comment to you left you no means of answering, and now that I know, rest assured all my feedback will have my name on it. Please feel free to leave a negative, it would only be fair
+B

[Desert_Seg]

I find this whole topic ridiculous. Are we really so shallow that we constantly seek the approval of others?

Who cares who left what type of reputation? We all know what we each are capable of providing to this forum and whilst a new member may not, I bet many of the new members will figure it out pretty fast.

There were people who hadn't even realized there was a rep point feature until Plo made his first post about this oh so many months ago. Sure, there are going to abuse the system but if we let sleeping dogs lay then most people will ignore it.

Finally, I build my own opinion on a person's value, an opinion not based on reputation points or number of points, but based on their value as an overall SegwayChat member.

Steven

[BillPaxton]

I find this whole topic ridiculous. Are we really so shallow that we constantly seek the approval of others?

Who cares who left what type of reputation? We all know what we each are capable of providing to this forum and whilst a new member may not, I bet many of the new members will figure it out pretty fast.

There were people who hadn't even realized there was a rep point feature until Plo made his first post about this oh so many months ago. Sure, there are going to abuse the system but if we let sleeping dogs lay then most people will ignore it.

Finally, I build my own opinion on a person's value, an opinion not based on reputation points or number of points, but based on their value as an overall SegwayChat member.

Steven
I'm not sure its all about ego Steven, I first came here to get info on an ebay auction that became my wife's beloved glide Vera, and then again to find out if I was being scammed on my Beucephalus. I knew nothing about Segways other than what Antony [MadSegs] showed me, and I wanted info from people that actually HAD glides and could answer my questions- I think reps help the non-forum regulars out there to see who knows what they are talking about and who is spouting.
+B

[Desert_Seg]

Damn red wine is making you see (and post) double! I mean triple! I mean single! (the case of the missing posts!)

The cheap stuff always does that, you know :D

Steven

[Worm]

eJM, I was one of your 5 that left a negative. I did not realize, because I don't read every forum, that it doesn't tell you who leaves rep points. I don't dislike you, but I strongly dissaproved of how you addressed Segsby, who I have alot of respect for, in another topic - but I think my comment to you spoke for itself and you may address me publicly or privately as you wish.
Nonetheless, I apologize that my comment to you left you no means of answering, and now that I know, rest assured all my feedback will have my name on it. Please feel free to leave a negative, it would only be fair
+B
Bill: you deserve rep points for that.]

eJM: ditto every word that BillPaxton said for me also. (I think I left a negative on you for exactly the same reasons, I really can't remember now but if I didn't I do remember that I thought about it and meant to at the time) But ditto everything Bill said. I agree with Bill. And sorry also for actions, or thoughts if I didn't.

If you like I could send you a negative now, but sign my name. And then after spreading it around a bit I could come back and give you a positive to counter the second negative. But if I did forget to and didn't give you that first one, then the new bad and the new good would cancel each other out. But that would really suck if I did already give you one, then I'd be dunning you twice until I gave you the good one, and it would be like a roller coaster. And if I died before giving you the positive that would be unfair.

So after I finish this I'm going to give you a positive for speaking your mind and not backing down even though I didn't agree with you, you were and are good about being a man and being upfront. If when I try to give you one I am not able to, then I'll know that I really did give you a bad one and it may be awhile before I'm able to give you a good one. But I will. So if you don't see a positive after reading this from me, you will know that I did give you a negative for sure. But then I will give you a positive later (again unless I die first).

If you'd like I wouldn't be bothered by you giving me a bad rep for giving you a bad rep anonymously (if I did), but then maybe you'd also be feeling like then later on giving me a positive for owning up to everything and apologizing (unless you died before giving me the positive). Actually I think I'd prefer it if you gave me the positive first and the negative later, and I promise I won't be praying for your death.

AND A "HAPPY WET FINGER" FOR EVERYBODY WHO WANTS ONE TOO.
I'm really trying to reserve them for negative things as a determent, I really don't want people to like them or learn to like them and then do negative or positive things to get them. I really don't want to give one to anybody, I haven't yet, I just have been suggesting them as an alternative to electrocution, pepper spray, and 9mm's. And your finger is always there, always available quickly, and IT'S NOT DEADLY.

Ok, I had red wine earlier, I always said I shouldn't set my drinks next to my computer and tonight I spilled the wine all over the computer. I dried it and set it upside down to drain and dry. I tried it later and it came on and fizzled off. I kept trying it over and over for several hours and it finally is working right again and I guess all of this got pented up inside of me. I'm ok now.

[eJM]

Nonetheless, I apologize that my comment to you left you no means of answering, and now that I know, rest assured all my feedback will have my name on it. Please feel free to leave a negative, it would only be fair
+B
You might have been one of those that gave me bad rep because you had a knee-jerk reaction to something you thought I said or because you didn't really read what I said. Just like now.
In any case, I don't use it to give good or bad points. I try my best to speak my mind either openly or in private - usually openly because I got very little to hide.

Even SEGsby didn't have the problem with me that you and others had. If you have so much respect for him, try showing it by spelling his name the way he does. Even with my complaints, I never once showed him disrespect - I addressed him politely (including spelling his name correctly) and always spoke my mind and what I believed to be the truth. You and a few others punished me for not knowing him as well as you do.

What the reputation system doesn't allow is exactly what I was able to do openly. I challenged SEGsby's motives and intentions, expressed my displeasure and after hearing more from him was able to show my appreciation for him. I still have my original objection, but I like the guy more because was able to communicate with him instead of at him.

Jim
PS: Worm, could you repeat that in English? ;)

[Worm]

I did post my post 3 times while correcting typos and adding words. Then when I finished and stupidly posted the same long thing 3 times I saw Desert Seg's post. So I deleted two of my 3 just so everyone would think Desert Seg was the one drinking red wine and was seeing triple :)

I tried to give eJm rep points and couldn't. So now I know I did give him bad anonymous rep points. When I can (before I die hopefully) I will give him a good rep for being upfront and honest.

I gave Desert Seg a good rep point because he thinks they are ridiculous. It's always nice to do something nice for someone when they say they don't want something nice. (they really do) and he deserves it.

And I gave Billy Bob Sagal a good rep point because he was whiny and saw that he got some good rep points but also got bad ones. And because of that (the bad ones) he wants to demolish the system. So maybe if we all give him good rep points he'll let the system stay and he won't whine.

BUT I agree with Billy Bob. This whole thing is about communicating openly not behind backs.

I think I really learned that from SEGsby and eJM in the last few days.

So I'll make sure to sign my name if for some reason I give someone good or bad rep points. And keep giving Billy Bob good rep points to keep him happy.

[Worm]

Jim
PS: Worm, could you repeat that in English? ;)

I apologize for several things. I've learned something from you. I posted an anonymous negative rep. to you (not really thinking about the anonymous thing, just more a thing of rating posts). I won't give any more anonymous rep points, good or bad. I realize from you that this is about communicating in the forum. And you communicate very well, honestly and upfront whether I agree with everything or not. And when I can I will give you a positive rep because of your positive communication contributions.

[Sal]

I find this whole topic ridiculous. Are we really so shallow that we constantly seek the approval of others?

Who cares who left what type of reputation? We all know what we each are capable of providing to this forum and whilst a new member may not, I bet many of the new members will figure it out pretty fast.

There were people who hadn't even realized there was a rep point feature until Plo made his first post about this oh so many months ago. Sure, there are going to abuse the system but if we let sleeping dogs lay then most people will ignore it.

Finally, I build my own opinion on a person's value, an opinion not based on reputation points or number of points, but based on their value as an overall SegwayChat member.

Steven

I agree with Steven. I don't really know if people care, pay attention to rep points. (except for some of those, of course who are posting to this thread). I went through a phase of posting positive rep points and then lagged off. Furthermore, I have received my share of negative rep points as well. I didn't care much about the points received because I was stating my mind in those posts which I elicited a negative response.

Again, our reputations are made through time and experience and through multiple interactions with folks. Our reputations are not based on a multiple-click system of ratings.

I believe a person's reputation on this site for being knowledgable about the Segway is paved through multiple interactions. A newbie to this site looking for answers will get responses from many many people. And invariably the new member will receive response to the constant participant rather than the on-again off-again poster. Everyone who posts regularly here knows a thing or two about the machines.

People who come to this site for any extended period of time will learn to trust, say Karl's opinions and experiences regarding the Segway. People will learn that Plo loves Polo, people will learn that Tarkus, among others is a staunch advocate for DRAFT and so on.

THAT is reputation. Points [should] mean nothing.

Again, I'm not keeping score, and I don't think the majority of posters are as well.

-Sal

[eJM]

Now that the administrator has recorded his opinion, this issue is dead. But it sure looks to me like you just posted several reasons why the vBulletin reputation system doesn't work, all of which I agree with. When people either disregard it, don't understand it or realize it doesn't matter, I wonder why it is left on.

Well, the answer isn't important now.

[behindblueeyes]

I am still new this forum, at times this place is very informative. And then sometimes it's just not. Just my 2cents.

[Worm]

Now that the administrator has recorded his opinion, this issue is dead. But it sure looks to me like you just posted several reasons why the vBulletin reputation system doesn't work, all of which I agree with. When people either disregard it, don't understand it or realize it doesn't matter, I wonder why it is left on.

Well, the answer isn't important now.

eJM I think you are totally wrong. Because the administrator has stated his opinion does not mean any issue is dead!

He is not a judge issuing a verdict. His opinion is just his opnion.

He just happens to be the administrator. (and I trust him and give more weight to his opinions than most others)

If he locks the thread, yes then the issue is dead. But this isn't locked.

Sal made no judgment, Sal made no verdict. Sal stated his opinion.

Absolutely no disrespect to Sal.

[Worm]

Sal, or anybody:

Is there somewhere on this site that explicitly explains how it works, how many points you get for what, when you change from "junior member" to "member" to whatever. How you get a red box under your name like a very few people have. I've looked and I can't find it.
???

[hellphish]

Sal, or anybody:

Is there somewhere on this site that explicitly explains how it works, how many points you get for what, when you change from "junior member" to "member" to whatever. How you get a red box under your name like a very few people have. I've looked and I can't find it.
???

The vBulletin manual has what you want. http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/main/reputation_intro

[KSagal]

I have found a great many things that I don't know if that many people understand about this system, but maybe that is because of my personal ignorance at many of these things...

I am a very direct man, and while that often does not sit well with some, and my lack of tact doesn't sit well with others, it is something that both my supporters and detractors alike will usually agree to...

I have found that a system that allows "Drive by Flaming" will eventually always be abused in this environment. The only way to curb this activity, is to have people identify their posts, so that they can be made accountable...

Even the measure I just suggested is not conclusive at all. Many people here use names that do not reflect anything other than a fictitious character. Some of us use our own names. (The ones that I respect) I don't have any gripe at all with cute nicknames, but those who are adults have those, and are not afraid to use their names as well. (I'll pick on Desert Seg/Steven as a good example)

In many ways, this forum is not unlike on-line dating... Every profile is that of a neurosurgeon, with a jet set lifestyle, while the reality is that most are 30 year olds that live in the "Completly separate apartment" that is in mom's cellar, and they only Jet set around, if mom let's them borrow the station waggon...

Now, I have found green blocks good (The more the better), red blocks bad, (The more the worse), and grey blocks don't count. For some time you cannot give good or bad rep points to a person you already gave any points to at all, and after a while you can, but seem to only get grey blocks...

I have had the same number of points for a long time now, according to my User CP. Even after I get a run of good or bad comments. I don't know what that means or really care...

I do know that friends of this web site get tremendous amounts of rep points, from someone friendly to them going in and manipulating the numbers... That is okay, we are playing in someone's private property, and they should be able to reward their friends any way they want.

I agree with those who have said that the system is of marginal value at all, because of the ability to have people flame a person and not be held accountable. Unfortunately, if a person is new to this forum, they may wish to use those blocks, especially if they come from other forums where that service may be better managed. If they are unfamiliar or come from forums where they are managed poorly, or not managed at all, they will have little regard for that marker...

Clearly, anyone who reads a number of my posts will see that I am not driven by trying to gain acceptance of the masses. If a bunch of people take cheap shots at me, that is their issue, not mine... But I would be a fool if I endorsed a systems that allows this...

[Worm]

Karl:
I was just jesting, sorry. I pretty much agree with you.

[Sal]

I don't know if we can turn rep points off. Pam or John, or even Frank, who have been in positions of back end control of this system would know if it can be turned off or on.

-Sal

[KSagal]

Karl:
I was just jesting, sorry. I pretty much agree with you.

I don't know what I said to make you think that I am mad at you. I must have mis-stated something.

I have no problem with Worm!

I just figured out that Worm must be conserned with, I gave a rant on using real names... That applies to the flame and run crowd. It does not really bother me if a person is a stand up person, and I do not know their name, but it does bug me when they take cheap shots, and I do not know their name. It did not occur to me that I had painted too many people with my broad brush...

There are many things and all kinds of shades of grey, that I am just not good at dealing with. I like black and white. I have a tendency to speak in absolutes, So, If anyperson who chooses to call themself by some fictional name wants to do so, Who am I to say anything about it? Just a loud mouth with an opinion on pretty much everything...

Would I rather know your real name and have you act like a bum? No. First and foremost, I would like people to act like adults. Agree or disagree, as long as everyone is civil, it matters not... But as soon as someone starts flinging poo, and they know who Karl is, but I don't know who the flinger is, then my dander is up...

So. I hope this clears some mess up that I may have caused...

[Worm]

Thank you. That was nice.

For that, if I ever need to use my trick on you, I'll warm my finger first.

[Worm]

Now I feel so good about myself I tried to give myself a good rep point. But it wouldn't let me.

Maybe if I sign up as another name also, I could give myself good rep points back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

Hell, then I could just argue and discuss and have whole threads with postings by myself responding with my other self. Then I wouldn't need any of you.

I guess I could just start my own forum with just me and me since I don't need anybody. "The Worm Chat".

It will be just like the joke of the worms one end talking to the worms other end.

[Worm]

Now I feel so good about myself I tried to give myself a good rep point. But it wouldn't let me.

Maybe if I sign up as another name also, I could give myself good rep points back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

Hell, then I could just argue and discuss and have whole threads with postings by myself responding with my other self. Then I wouldn't need any of you.

I guess I could just start my own forum with just me and me since I don't need anybody. "The Worm Chat".

It will be just like the joke of the worms one end talking to the worms other end.
Wow, I just found out that I can quote myself and respond to myself as myself.

But, I just had a freaky experience after the last post.

I hit refresh to see if anyone responded, I had recently deleted cookies, so when I hit refresh I wasn't signed in but I didn't realize it.

When you aren't signed in you can't see the button to give points.

I thought that the admins saw my post about giving rep points to myself and just had enough after Karl whining and me wanting to give points to myself, and changed the whole system just then and got rid of rep points.

Totally freaked me out. But then I realized I just wasn't signed in.

[KSagal]

Now I feel so good about myself I tried to give myself a good rep point. But it wouldn't let me.

Maybe if I sign up as another name also, I could give myself good rep points back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

Hell, then I could just argue and discuss and have whole threads with postings by myself responding with my other self. Then I wouldn't need any of you.

I guess I could just start my own forum with just me and me since I don't need anybody. "The Worm Chat".

It will be just like the joke of the worms one end talking to the worms other end.


THis is funny, but it really has been done before. I'll not get into it here, but there was a guy that really did do Exactly what you just joked about...

[eJM]

I don't know if we can turn rep points off. Pam or John, or even Frank, who have been in positions of back end control of this system would know if it can be turned off or on.

-Sal
Yes, you can and it's very simple:

Admin CP | vBulletin Options | User Reputation Options - Enable User Reputation system Yes No

There are other options in that section as well. You can also find modifications to the reputation system on vB.org (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/search.php?searchid=4997036) and other vBulletin modification sites. One site I visit (TheAdminZone.com) modified their rep system to allow only positive rep and no bad rep. But lots of sites just disable it and force members to actually talk to each other. ;)

Jim

[hellphish]

Truely. I have never seen another vbulletin site that used rep points. It reeks of 'default config.'

[Sal]

Okay folks, I have brought this topic up with the other admins of this site and we'll have a response for you soon.

-Sal

[osubrad04]

Just to echo a point of view expressed earlier, I really appreciated the reputation points and still enjoy the feature as a junior member. :) It allows new members, like myself, to gauge the "weight" of another members responses. While this may not be the best method of trust, I think it is a nice baseline for people like myself.


On another topic, thanks to everyone here for being so friendly and helpful in my search for a Segway!

[gbrandwood]

My only gripe with the reputation system is that it doesn't auto stamp an entry with a username for the recipient to see. I'm sure this could be accommodated - if not in the vbulletin software itself, then via a simple tweak to the code to automatically append the relevant username to the comment.

Oh, my other gripe is that I only have one green block! :rolleyes:

I hope the mods are looking at both sides.

[JohnG]

Reputation systems, over time, can provide other members with some additional information/insights into other members' value in the community. It is not the only indicator to do so, nor do people give it more or less weight than other indicators.

Yes, it's not perfect. Yes, it has some things we'd like to alter about it. But its general overall use here is a positive and will continue.

John

[KSagal]

Reputation systems, over time, can provide other members with some additional information/insights into other members' value in the community. It is not the only indicator to do so, nor do people give it more or less weight than other indicators.

Yes, it's not perfect. Yes, it has some things we'd like to alter about it. But its general overall use here is a positive and will continue.

John


John,

I just noticed your "uber Admin" title. Congrats, I guess.

Why do you have less than the max little green blocks, when all the other staff has them maxed out? Is your advise less valuable? I am just curious...

[gbrandwood]

(Congrats, Karl, on your 3000th post!)

[gbrandwood]

John,

I just noticed your "uber Admin" title. Congrats, I guess.

Why do you have less than the max little green blocks, when all the other staff has them maxed out? Is your advise less valuable? I am just curious...Indeed, if you look at this link, it highlights and sorts members via their reputation:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/memberlist.php?&order=DESC&sort=reputation&pp=100

Were all of these reputation points earned the hard way? :confused:

[eJM]

The vBulletin software allows administrators to change their reputation points at will. They can also change the power the reputation points they give others has. By default, the software adds a power multiple of 10 to admin reputation points.

Jim

[pam]

Admins can change anyone's rep points at will, not just their own. Ours is set with the default power of 10. Personally, I think the whole rep point issue is sorta silly. We didn't have them in the earlier software, and when the software moved, suddenly I had a bunch. I don't know that I know more than Will or Karl or a lot of others who post here, and I certainly don't know more than Bystander. I knew a lot more about my 167 than I know about my i2. BUT, if I could get rep points for every spammer I've managed to catch before it got to the forum, I'd probably deserve all the points I have LOL.

It behooves everyone to come onto the forums and watch the posters - and make their decisions about the validity of the information based on the actual posts, IMHO. Rep points should be a guide, not a rule.

Pam

[polo_pro]

I view reputation points as a "citizen's police force". When someone exhibits behavior that MIGHT need attention, on most forums the moderator has to step in and take action. Reputation points allow fellow members to instead step in and take action to discourage certain behaviors.

Now whether the moderator and every member share the same views about what bahavior to discourate...well, I seriously doubt this is the case. But that's why reputation points don't have as much influence as a moderator banning.

Simply put reputation points save the moderator's time.

ps - Long ago, I posted a few too many polls. About one a week. Someone dinged me for it (anonymously of course) with some "I disapprove" reputation points. Since then, I don't post a poll everytime one comes to mind. My point is the moderator didn't have to step in (and piss me off), and I guess my behavior was becoming annoying to at least one person. See how things were resolved quicker and more smoothly?

[hellphish]

And folks, if you really think a post is a problem, you can use the "Report post" button right next to that Rep button. If you don't think the post is so bad that it warrants getting a mod involved, then perhaps you should just PM the offender and have a chat. I still stand by my stance that annonymously dinging someone is the same as slashing their tires and running away.

[TX2Wheels]

Karl, you have always answered honestly and intelligently in all that I have read. I am 64 and not at all surprised some people will say negative comments anomously. Yes, if they don't use their identity then the Thread should not be allowed.
This forum has been so very helpful to me in many ways in my small business. In fact it has convinced me to use helments on my glides with my cuistomers and improved the way I train. Thanks for qll your in put.

Jay Guillot
TX 2 Wheels.






I just checked my reputation points again. (GO to User CP in the menu bar above, and scroll to the bottom of the page...)

And again, people slam or praise, but I don't know who.

For me, since it was suggested a long time ago, I include my screen name in all comments, as I believe that is the adult thing to do...

A complement is nice, and harmless enough if it is anonomus, but when someone says mean things, or slams another for expressing an opinion, that is the act of a very petty person...

I believe that the reputation section should automatically include the author. It should not depend on people acting like adults, because those that do, are not the ones taking cheap shots.

How does everyone else feel? Is there a value in allowing these cheap shots to continue? I should imagine if a clear consensus were to be raised, then the management of this site may respond.

Of course, my opinion may be in the minority. If that is the case, I will continue to lable my comments, non the less...

[KSagal]

I believe that the clear consensus is that the rep point system should include an automatic lable as to who left what comment...

While management seems clear that they plan to keep the rep points, everyone has aggreed that it is flawed or availble to abuse as it stands...

I also believe that the software has the capacity to add the identifier to the rep point comment... I believe that this should be changed in this manner... How about everyone else?

I really do believe that a lot of these flame and run hits will disappear once people realize they may be asked to explain themselves...

I would also add that there is no problem in adding a negative point to someone's reputation, if you believe it is fraudulent or mis-leading. I believe that warrents a negative point. I don't think that a person who has a different opinion or believes a different way is the same as a bad reputation...

I argue all day long with people that I would not consider deserving of a bad rep point from me, (They may deserve a boot in the behind for their clearly wrong thinking) but if they are honestly wrong, it is very different than if they are dishonest...

I am clearly wrong a lot. Err, UM... I ... Mean.... I enjoy a spirited debate, and do not always end a conversation with the same convictions or opinion as I started with. That is the nature of debate.

I just think that assuming that people will be stand-up is not as realistic as just automatically assigning their name to their posts... After all, we cannot post unless we sign in on this forum. No posts here are anonamous, so why should the rep point posts?

[eJM]

I also believe that the software has the capacity to add the identifier to the rep point comment... I believe that this should be changed in this manner... How about everyone else?
That also is very easy: Admin CP | Usergroups | Usergroup Manager | Edit Usergroup | User Reputation Permissions Can See Who Left User Ratings Yes No

I agree, if rep is to be used, it shouldn't be anonymous.

Jim

[BillPaxton]

yes please do enable this!!

[cruiter]

I guess I'm lucky, I can tell from all but one who left the point plus or minus. But I also admit to not being perfect, once in my life I cast a vote for the wrong president. I didn't get this old without learning something :mad: .

I also believe negative rep points for most is a double standard. When ever someone seems to really upset the apple cart, the forum gives a blast in public, and the same in a positive way seems to be true for positive posts. So if someone gets something undeserved, it kinda seems like the kind of pranks bad teens and older folks that never grew up do. We all want to be needed, loved, and respected. So if a person gives negative posts, I believe it's usually from someone that is lacking one or more of those and may even feel guilty themselves for the negative post they give someone else.

So having said that, I'm sure if I torqued someone over that, they'll give me a negative tap. Oh well, I'll just glide it off :).

Jim
I believe that the clear consensus is that the rep point system should include an automatic lable as to who left what comment...

While management seems clear that they plan to keep the rep points, everyone has aggreed that it is flawed or availble to abuse as it stands...

I also believe that the software has the capacity to add the identifier to the rep point comment... I believe that this should be changed in this manner... How about everyone else?

I really do believe that a lot of these flame and run hits will disappear once people realize they may be asked to explain themselves...

I would also add that there is no problem in adding a negative point to someone's reputation, if you believe it is fraudulent or mis-leading. I believe that warrents a negative point. I don't think that a person who has a different opinion or believes a different way is the same as a bad reputation...

I argue all day long with people that I would not consider deserving of a bad rep point from me, (They may deserve a boot in the behind for their clearly wrong thinking) but if they are honestly wrong, it is very different than if they are dishonest...

I am clearly wrong a lot. Err, UM... I ... Mean.... I enjoy a spirited debate, and do not always end a conversation with the same convictions or opinion as I started with. That is the nature of debate.

I just think that assuming that people will be stand-up is not as realistic as just automatically assigning their name to their posts... After all, we cannot post unless we sign in on this forum. No posts here are anonamous, so why should the rep point posts?

[Sal]

That also is very easy: Admin CP | Usergroups | Usergroup Manager | Edit Usergroup | User Reputation Permissions Can See Who Left User Ratings Yes No

I agree, if rep is to be used, it shouldn't be anonymous.

Jim

JGrohol should be reading this (and I am sure he is).

Thanks for all the responses. Although I disagree with many on this forum regarding the value of the point system (I find it silly and inconsequential), I will stand by the decisions of the senior administrators.

As for unblinding of the point system, there arises this complication: If at a certain point the rep points are unblinded, would that unblind ALL rep points prior to the date of the unblinding action?

If so, I believe this potential for retroactive unblinding would be unfair to all those who have posted reputation points in the past (especially to those who have posted negative ones).

As we have seen even here on these forums, negativity about topics, and people has for the most part (in my opinion) not been met with any degree of diplomacy, and administrators have had to step in multiple times to quell intense heat.

If unblinding is considered, and if retroactive unblinding cannot be avoided, the ramifications of doing so should be considereheavily.

Thank you for your time.

-Sal

[eJM]

It's just my opinion, but if someone in the past left bad rep just because they could do so with impunity, they should have the opportunity to see the consequences of their careless actions. Far too many people feel the Internet affords them the degree of anonymity that allows them to act and say things in ways that they would never do in real life. They think the Internet protects their rude and anti-social behavior.

On the other side of the coin is website staff who, rather than take the time to admonish a member, or just ignore the impulse to strike out, has left bad rep, or showed favoritism to others they wouldn't want to be known publicly for. That's a very real possibility.

My suggestion would be to erase all reputation points to date and let everyone start from scratch. This way, those who thought they would be anonymous, still are, but will not be ever again.

The idea that rep points don't mean much only really applies to those who feel that way. Some people, especially new members, might think rep points is a valuable indicator of a person's character, knowledge and/or experience. You can't moderate people's understanding. You can't ask people to read every post another person has made in order to make a determination of their value to you. We are only as valuable as the posts remembered - and for some, that isn't very many posts.

Reputation systems are almost always abused in some way, by some people. It has happened here already and, no matter how you change it, will likely be abused again. I am definitely not in favor of protecting the abusers. In fact, you can make a new Usergroup that those who abuse the system can be put into to prevent them from using the reputation system - or any other feature of the forum that has been abused by them. Reputation permissions is approved or disapproved on a usergroup by usergroup basis. You can be in more than one usergroup.

Here's a thought: Link the reputation icon to the send private message to member page. Let the person who wants to send reputation see just how easy it is to have a conversation with the person. They might make a new friend. ;)

Jim

[guyler]

Dump the rep points. Who wants them? Who needs them?

[pam]

The rep point system will remain the way it has been. There are no plans to change it at this time.

People usually only accrue negative rep points when they've p*ssed another board member off. I know that I've accrued some negative rep points (and I can see who gave me mine :) ) over the time. Usually it's someone who has disagreed with a decision I made. Once it was over moving a post from one forum to another.

Life is too darn short to spend worrying about rep points on an internet chat forum, in my opinion. We need to be outside, in the fresh air, riding our Segways.

In one respect, we're definitely a microcosm of the macrocosm. Just as in real life, if you're concerned about accruing negative rep points, then I would suggest that you treat the other forum members with civility and review your posts before you post.

Pam

[polo_pro]

As for unblinding of the point system, there arises this complication: If at a certain point the rep points are unblinded, would that unblind ALL rep points prior to the date of the unblinding action?

If so, I believe this potential for retroactive unblinding would be unfair to all those who have posted reputation points in the past (especially to those who have posted negative ones).

As we have seen even here on these forums, negativity about topics, and people has for the most part (in my opinion) not been met with any degree of diplomacy, and administrators have had to step in multiple times to quell intense heat.

If unblinding is considered, and if retroactive unblinding cannot be avoided, the ramifications of doing so should be considereheavily.

Thank you for your time.

-Sal

I don't care whether reputation comments are anonymous or not. I prefer "not anonymous", but my main concern is that the reputation mechanism continue to be used in some form.

As to the "unblinding", I'm with eJM on this. Zero out everyone's rep points and remove all rep comments. Unblind everyone, and folks with high reputation in the past will naturally float back up to the top in the coming months.

[eJM]

Life is too darn short to spend worrying about rep points on an internet chat forum, in my opinion. We need to be outside, in the fresh air, riding our Segways.

In one respect, we're definitely a microcosm of the macrocosm. Just as in real life, if you're concerned about accruing negative rep points, then I would suggest that you treat the other forum members with civility and review your posts before you post.

Pam
The Internet, and community forums in particular, are advanced and important communications mediums. It's difficult to have respect for those who treat message boards with little more regard than the cartoons on TV the kids watch after school when they should be outside playing. It's even more disconcerting when it's an administrator of a popular forum with that attitude.

SegwayChat.com is important in that it provides many of us with information regarding the safe and efficient operation of our Segways. It helps to bring people of varying socio-economic backgrounds and widely ranging geographical regions together. It gives a great many people common ground to stand on and offers them the ability to reach more people than they could otherwise to share their expertise, guidance and friendship.

It's an unfortunate fact that some people will abuse the reputation system. It hardly bothers the staff because few people complain to them about it and their own reputation is artificially higher than just about anyone else. But to say in one sentence that reputation doesn't mean anything (or very little) and in another sentence say you will allow the abuses to continue and members should walk on egg shells to avoid any appearance of controversy to anyone in particular, is less than appreciative of the gravity of this to those who hold Segway Chat at a higher value than you do.

My experience tells me that one or more people will regard my opinion and demeanor as deserving of bad reputation points. It may also illicit the comment, "if you don't like it here, find another forum (or build your own, etc.)." I am sorry if my personal opinions rile others, but I have them to share. On my own forums, I do not hold myself above reproach and have been "called on the carpet" more than once (those who know I have a flooring forum can snicker if you got 'em). So, I usually say what's on my mind and try not to have a reason to apologize (although I have been known to have to grovel before - I'm not exempt).

Jim

[Desert_Seg]

As with anything in life, the reputation point system will be barely used by some, used properly by many, and possibly abused by a few. Nothing will change this.

If you got a negative rep point....and you did nothing wrong, why should you care? Yes, it might bother you that somebody didn't like what you posted but that is their right. And if they don't want to post their name, that is, again, their right.

Let's not get too caught up in this and, therefore, not worry about a negative remark or two.

Steven

[KSagal]

For me this was not about reputations.

I have said, I lable all my entries...

I have said, I don't believe a differing opinion is a reason for a bad reputation. A deception is. I don't recall giving any negative points, but maybe I have. If I did, I must have thought they were justified at the time, but, again, I include my name in the posts...

What this is about is fairness. You have to sign in to post on this forum, and if you say something, almost anything, someone will hold you to account.

If you do the same thing in the reputation area, you can do it without any accountablility...

For a moderator, who tells us exactly who left her rep points, the exact knowledge we are asking for ourselves, that it is unimportant is to miss the point... Then to tell us that the unfairness does not matter, while demonstrating that she is not subject to that unfairness shows a disconnect.

I note that John Grohol does not have the max rep points. If he says they do not matter, I believe him, as he can max his points and did not. IF Pam or Sal says the same thing, they may mean it just as much, but they are displaying a different rule for themselves than for the rest of us... IF the rep points really don't mean anything, why did we get an analysis of the ones left here or there?

For me, I really don't care what shallow people say. I don't care if a person is so petty as to flame and run. But double standards annoy me, and cheap shots do too...

THe consensus is very clear here, from every person who does not have the ability to manipulate their own points, the points of others, and to have a 1000% advantage to start... This whole situation smells of the people saying they have no bread... And the moderators here telling us to eat cake... Well, guess what? You guys only allow yourselves the keys to the cake box...

All I suggested was fairness. I still think it makes the most sense.

You still will be the only ones with the keys to the cake box. You still will have the ultimate control. The only thing that will change, is that if someone flames and runs, we will know who. Just like you do now. Of course we will not be able to do anything about it, that will still be reserved for the moderators...

[Sal]

John and Pam have stated their opinions regarding the matter, as have I.

I think for the time being, this matter is closed: the reputation points will stay as they have been.

Thank you.