Hit a Pedestrian on my way home, and I FEEL GREAT!

[SEGsby]

Let me step through the events before anyone jumps to erroneous conclusions...

I walked to local Long's Pharmacy after work, then left on the Seg, carrying a bag of groceries in my left hand and used my right to steer. You know, sandwich bread and Taquitos; the staples of a bachelor diet. Mmm.

The NE winds were about 12 mph roaring off of the ocean, and were making sand drifts on the boardwalk. Bits of palm leaves littered the pavement as the wind bent them. I glided down south, towards home.

As I was moving along with the strong, dust filled winds at my back, I noticed a young black male on a skateboard staring at me, standing under a streetlight. I watched him track my progress then glance down & quickly adjust his board. Then he suddenly launched at an angle to intercept my trajectory. I kept my velocity constant as he hit the side of my wheel with his skateboard (leaving a white mark on my left hub). As we impacted I jabbed out my left hand and made a fist, while groceries dangled in doubled plastic bags below.

I heard and felt a meaty *SMACK!*. I assume I punched his shoulder as I passed. He probably twisted to the side to focus his mass and momentum upon me. I wasn't watching him so much at this point-- but it was more than clear he was --TRYING-- to f**k with me (probably push me over, or at least knock me off the machine?). I was already looking ahead, steering, in case I had to bail...

The f****r was completely deflected but I stayed upright and perfectly fine on the Seg. Herbie didn't appear to even react when he hit us. We just sailed on. I was so mad someone would try something so childish, but was elated I and my machine were fine after the event. I didn't look back until I arrived at my street to turn inland.

After arriving home and looking at my hand, I see I have a few bruised knuckles, but I wear riding gloves. I hope the moron has an *AWESOME* bruise and learned Segway's are not such easy targets.

SEGsby in the hood, yo!

[Desert_Seg]

While I'm glad you are ok and that nothing major happened, I would recommend you call the police and file a complaint.

After all, what happens if HE calls and files the complaint. The spin he would put on it would be totally different.
- He was out boarding and YOU ran into him
- You then punched him and then kept on going. (this post doesn't help your defense!)

So, call the cops, file a complaint, and next time wait for the cops to come!

Steven

[SEGsby]

I tried to call the cops the first time I was attacked, last year. I waited on the phone for 30 miniutes andnever got a response, and the one cop I did see on the street-- took off in a hurry when I tried to flag him down.

The cops are pretty useless. They just pick up the bodies. And paperwork is something they hate doing and avoid at all costs.

The dude could have had friends waiting in the shadows of the empty boardwalk shops, so hanging around is not wise.

SEGsby

While I'm glad you are ok and that nothing major happened, I would recommend you call the police and file a complaint.

After all, what happens if HE calls and files the complaint. The spin he would put on it would be totally different.
- He was out boarding and YOU ran into him
- You then punched him and then kept on going. (this post doesn't help your defense!)

So, call the cops, file a complaint, and next time wait for the cops to come!

Steven

[Desert_Seg]

Yeah, but if you call them and let them know what happened, they have to log it. With the name of the officer you reported it to and the time / date, you have a good defense.

Just a recommendation.

Steven

[SEGsby]

I'll call, but nothing will come of it.

Okay, on the phone with them now, and they don't even know what a Segway is and are asking if it's a vehical that needs to be registered...

Well, they won't fill a report until the officer talks to a Detective to find out what kind of crime was commited...

Lovely waste of time.

Segsby

[SEGsby]

Well, they actually called back when they said they would.

No report number yet, but they did decide it was a battery.

SEGsby

[Majestic]

I agree with calling the cops but I too would have been outta there. Glad you are (both) safe and sound.

[SEGsby]

If I had to hit someone (by their design or not), I'm glad it was a moron who was trying something stupid and irresponsible-- and totally failed at it.

Thanks. Other than a small white mark from the skateboard and some red knuckles, we're fine. :)

Herbie's a torque monster!

*SMACK!*

SEGsby

I agree with calling the cops but I too would have been outta there. Glad you are (both) safe and sound.

[Isidore]

I'm sure there's a really good pun in there about it being a battery but I can't quite see it... Are we are going to have to glide with medieval lances soon?

[dgbint]

I am reminded of the old story about somebody who called the police, but was met with the response, sorry we don't have a car to send.

Hang up, call again, and say I just shot this dude who attacked me.

When the police car comes, and they say, hey you didn't shoot him, you can always say, hey I thought you didn't have a car to send.

I AM JOKING !!

Don't call the police and make a false report.
It does make a good story though.

Michael

[dgbint]

On a slightly more serious tone.

If you are in CA, as per your icon, then you were a pedestrian ( whilst gliding on your Segway PT / EPAMD ) when you were attacked, assaulted or however you wish to describe the incident.

Heres the detail.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc313.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc467.htm

I hope these links work.

Michael

[Worm]

Congratulations! You handled it beautifully. What a jerk that person was, who knows what he would have done, but you got away safe.

[Suzined]

"I'm sure there's a really good pun in there about it being a battery but I can't quite see it... Are we are going to have to glide with medieval lances soon?"

Will jousting replace polo?

[KSagal]

You should take detailed photos of the mark on your segway. If the mark is on the side of the wheel, it clearly indicates that he hit you, and not the other way around.

If he counter claims that you hit him, it may be important.

[SEGsby]

Segway Jousting could be the new Polo. ;)

SEGsby

I'm sure there's a really good pun in there about it being a battery but I can't quite see it... Are we are going to have to glide with medieval lances soon?

[SEGsby]

I seriously doubt this guy knows that the internet is for anything more than porn or MySpace, and would be thusly compelled to report their misdeeds to the police. Police that probably have dealt with them before.

SEGsby

You should take detailed photos of the mark on your segway. If the mark is on the side of the wheel, it clearly indicates that he hit you, and not the other way around.

If he counter claims that you hit him, it may be important.

[nickyboy]

Segway Jousting could be the new Polo. ;)

SEGsby

Beat me too it! I was going to refer this to the link about new sports on Segways etc.

Nick

[gbrandwood]

I'm not one for violence but under the circumstances, I think you did the right thing. Just wish you'd given him a clout from me!

I think I remember reading that someone on here had some smart ars* roll their board out in front of them whilst gliding and amazingly the board broke under the wheel and the glider carried on. That's 2 for gliding and 0 for the boarders!!

[KSagal]

On some level I feel left out...

I do not recall a single time in the last 4 years when I regretted not having a stund gun with me. Never had the need.

I have been the victim of exactly 0 assults with battery.

I have been gliding within proximity of some outdoor bars or other places where foolish drunks hung out, but each and every attempted assault (Verbal) has resulted in the would be attacker being laughed at by me and often by their own peers, after my wit sliced them up a bit.

I have heard, in the distance, a rare explitive or insult hurled at me, but less than I used to hear when I used to bike on the streets more... Surely not more per hour on the road than I have ever gotten in the past.

I have had absoulutly no opportunities to beat anyone up, or to avoid being beaten up, while gliding...

What am I doing wrong?

One time, I stopped in front of a McDonnalds and several youths crowded around to ask about the seg. One kid took his finger and spun the spinner hubcap on my wheel. I gave him the stern voice, and asked if thought it was right to be touching another persons ride. And then asked what would happen if some one did that to his own stuff, or his father's car... He not only got the message, but the laughter (not in a good way) of his peers.

I really have had many a great experience, and an extreamly few bad ones.

I seem to miss much of this excitement... Poor me...

[Desert_Seg]

I seem to miss much of this excitement... Poor me...

Karl,

You aren't alone. I glide everywhere...

...To the coffee shop for my morning meetings (almost daily)
...To my daily meetings (daily)
...To the bar for my evening meetings (on average twice weekly)
...To the grocery store
...To and fro

Yes, the odd person will try to get on the Segway and yes, I've had to raise my voice once or twice, but never have I felt that I or the Segway were in danger in any way.

There was that one instance where I let the CS "roll over" and bop a kid in the head but he (and his inattentive father) deserved it.

Steven

[eJM]

...As I was moving along with the strong, dust filled winds at my back, I noticed a young black male on a skateboard staring at me, standing under a streetlight...
Nice writing style, but I can't for the life of me figure out why you thought it was important to add race to the story. Disturbing. I think if you left the word "black" out of the sentence, it would have been just as exciting to everyone.

Jim

[gbrandwood]

It would have been just as "exciting" without the strong dust references, but the guy was providing a detailed account. I didn't read it as bringing race in to it anywhere. Just as disturbing, perhaps, is that you think it does?

[Mr_Laurenzano]

Skatboarding is illegal on sidewalks in most of california. I would have hit him twice. Im ridding a skateboard right this second.
CRASH

[Worm]

Nice writing style, but I can't for the life of me figure out why you thought it was important to add race to the story. Disturbing. I think if you left the word "black" out of the sentence, it would have been just as exciting to everyone.

Jim
I'm 51, how dare he label someone young! I'm disturbed. Why did he have to mention the guy was "young". :)

[BillPaxton]

It would have been just as "exciting" without the strong dust references, but the guy was providing a detailed account. I didn't read it as bringing race in to it anywhere. Just as disturbing, perhaps, is that you think it does?
Here here Gareth...I didn't give that a second glance until ejm brought it up - and I just don't see how stating a fact is anything other than just that unless you are trying to MAKE it more than it is.

[Worm]

Let me step through the events before anyone jumps to erroneous conclusions...

I walked to local Long's Pharmacy after work, then left on the Seg, carrying a bag of groceries in my left hand and used my right to steer...

Here here Gareth.
Here here Bill

BUT, this non-issue has kept us from the real issue. This is serious!

How did Segsby walk to the pharmacy and ride Herbie home?

Was Herbie waiting at the pharmacy?

How did Herbie get to the pharmacy?

Was Herbie alone?

Did Herbie conspire with this alleged young, alleged black, alleged male?

[BillPaxton]

Here here Gareth.
Here here Bill

BUT, this non-issue has kept us from the real issue. This is serious!

How did Segsby walk to the pharmacy and ride Herbie home?

Was Herbie waiting at the pharmacy?

How did Herbie get to the pharmacy?

Was Herbie alone?

Did Herbie conspire with this alleged young, alleged black, alleged male?Anal/finger issues aside, I *love* this guy! Now we just need to substitute fingers with gratuitous insertions of polo tangents...

[polo_pro]

Segway Jousting could be the new Polo. ;)

During the long glide, we talked about this at one point. The idea I came up with was to glide backwards (with the CS behind) with a short fence seperating the two segways from colliding. Ideally people would have a large face mask covering their face, neck and part of their chest. In one hand would be a nerf-like lance and in the other hand would be a shield. Obviously "steering" is optional.

Due to the speed limiter when going in reverse, the motors might have to be reverse wired (or reversed) to allow for a full 12 MPH in reverse.

OPTA - Forget stun guns...I always carry my polo mallet with me. No one messes with someone who has a 7 foot reach and a good swing. 8^) 8^) 8^) And if asked (say by the authorities) what that is hanging from my handlebars, I just respond with, "Oh...that's my cane." 8^) 8^) 8^)

ps - I'd think a suit of some sort would be required where it ensures that the lance doesn't get caught in any joint. It may be soft, but a poke at 25 MPH could cause problems.

[SEGsby]

I was simply blocking his potential fall into my leensteer, which would probably have spun the machine to the right and thrown me off the platform at 12 mph.

That's something I really don't want to have to experience...

My gut reaction was a fist seemed safer if he was going to hit, and after the fact, was a more satisfying position to be in after he rammed the side of Herbie.

And yes, I rememeber Tim recounting how a kid deliberately rolled a skateboard out in front of him and his machine crushed it without flinching. I also recall this kid's friends laughing at the loss of his skateboard.

Same area, just more North of me.

SEGsby

I'm not one for violence but under the circumstances, I think you did the right thing. Just wish you'd given him a clout from me!

I think I remember reading that someone on here had some smart ars* roll their board out in front of them whilst gliding and amazingly the board broke under the wheel and the glider carried on. That's 2 for gliding and 0 for the boarders!!

[SEGsby]

If he was WHITE, LATINO or a FRENCH MIME, I would have put that detail in there, too. But that wasn't part of the unfortunate events of that evening...

If I knew more about them, I would have added it. But that's all I have; Age, Race and Gender. And that's what's in the post, which is the same information the police got-- just the facts.

If you experienced discomfort while reading a detailed account of a Battery against a Segway and it's owner, just because the perp's race was mentioned, then you might might need to spend some time contemplating why you felt this way.

And thanks for the complements on my writing. I try to be at least a little entertaining to help balance the controversy of my participation.

SEGsby


Nice writing style, but I can't for the life of me figure out why you thought it was important to add race to the story. Disturbing. I think if you left the word "black" out of the sentence, it would have been just as exciting to everyone.

Jim

[SEGsby]

I didn't want to say anything before, but I think Herbie has a real problem...

It's true.

I have thought about calling an intervention for him and getting some outside assistance; but I don't think it will work. I mean... He just LEANS against things and can't even support himself. It's shameful and disgraceful to view in public, and highly embarrassing to witness whenever the subject comes up. How can I say this tastefully? His friends and family would like to depend on him, but he just keeps letting us down each time the need to perform is there... It's the same old story, over and over.

After spending some time with him and getting to know him better and better each day, I've found myself asking-- What kind of EPAMD can't stand upright without external aids, or quick-fix gimmicks gleaned from reading the internet???? I know he's constantly searching for things that... you know, correct his condition. But I've come to the conclusion that it's probably an exercise in futility and may never be resolved.

I... I think he sneaks out to the Pharmacy to get drugs that will help him stay upright.

Seriously.

SEGsby


Here here Gareth.
Here here Bill

BUT, this non-issue has kept us from the real issue. This is serious!

How did Segsby walk to the pharmacy and ride Herbie home?

Was Herbie waiting at the pharmacy?

How did Herbie get to the pharmacy?

Was Herbie alone?

Did Herbie conspire with this alleged young, alleged black, alleged male?

[eJM]

Sorry, I just don't believe you. I read more than a hundred of your posts and you mention "men" and "women" when telling your stories, but not their races. This story about your alleged assault was about a young black male - not a young man. This story wasn't a police report, it was meant to be an entertaining story. Maybe it didn't seem menacing enough with just the mention of a young man with a skateboard, I don't know.

You and anyone else here can make light of it all you want. That doesn't make it any less disturbing to me and many others - perhaps more so, given the defensive posturing some of you have taken.

Jim

[SEGsby]

Your personal belief's are certainly your own, but I don't appreciate being labeled as a racist in a public forum, simply because I described an attacker with the only information I have available.

I'm disappointed you won't accept my authenticity on the issue, but not at all surprised.

SEGsby

Sorry, I just don't believe you. I read more than a hundred of your posts and you mention "men" and "women" when telling your stories, but not their races. This story about your alleged assault was about a young black male - not a young man. This story wasn't a police report, it was meant to be an entertaining story. Maybe it didn't seem menacing enough with just the mention of a young man with a skateboard, I don't know.

You and anyone else here can make light of it all you want. That doesn't make it any less disturbing to me and many others - perhaps more so, given the defensive posturing some of you have taken.

Jim

[Worm]

You and anyone else here can make light of it all you want. That doesn't make it any less disturbing to me and many others - perhaps more so, given the defensive posturing some of you have taken.

Jim
You wrote "and many others". You are the only one who said anything about being concerned.

You imagined something where nothing exists.

Worm

[Worm]

If he was WHITE, LATINO or a FRENCH MIME, I would have put that detail in there, too. But that wasn't part of the unfortunate events of that evening...

SEGsby:
You tried to slide another one by us. But I caught you!

If they were Mimes, how would you know they were French?

[SEGsby]

We all know French Mimes:

1. Wear black and white striped shirts.

2. Wear a black beret.

3. May wear a vest & sometimes use colorful suspenders to keep their pants up.

4. Use creepy white face paint with black accents around their eyes and sometimes red saturated lips.

5. Wear white gloves.

6. Never utter a word while performing.

7. Move in freakish ways that scare the crap out of normal people.

8. They sometimes mock their audience using "Physical Theater".

Wanted posters for these performers can be found here:

http://www.mimethegap.com/acts_french_mime.htm

SEGsby



SEGsby:
You tried to slide another one by us. But I caught you!

If they were Mimes, how would you know they were French?

[Worm]

oooops. I submit. I was wrong. I thought all mimes were that way. I thought being a mime meant you dressed and looked like that. I thought when you said a French mime, you just meant a mime from France. And I couldn't figure out how you would know that since they don't speak.

[SEGsby]

That's okay.

It's not a simple matter of right or wrong-- but you and everyone else reading my words should have felt very uncomfortable reading my uncensored and insensitive description of these people...

Yes, I used the politically forbidden word 'black' to describe their characteristics a number of times in my list. Admittedly, that was very very un-PC of me. And for that I should be terribly ashamed because...

I'm mostly French myself. :( C'est vrai.

And because of this, I have French-dar and can spot these silent mimes at great distances.

SEGsby


oooops. I submit. I was wrong. I thought all mimes were that way. I thought being a mime meant you dressed and looked like that. I thought when you said a French mime, you just meant a mime from France. And I couldn't figure out how you would know that since they don't speak.

[KSagal]

I find this forum informative sometimes...

I thought that white face paint and a striped shirt was more mime and less "French Mime". I did not know that there was a distinction...

When I first read about the french mime reference, I was confused. I thought that you could tell a frence mime from a non-french mime by the way they hold their hands up in front of themselves, when making believe they are in that glass box...

[Desert_Seg]

I'm even insulted now. As a person of Hispanic heritage, I'm insulted that SEGsby didn't include us in is "list". After all, are Latinos more important that Hispanics? And who in their right mind would call out a French Mime but miss the all important Puerto Rican Mimes?

Geesh, where or where is this forum going? Next thing you know somebody in NY is going to post how they were out gliding when a young PR-looking young man, in his hip-hop clothes, made a threatening gesture, causing the glider to pull out their 9mm and cap somebody's a**.

Steven

[polo_pro]

After spending some time with him and getting to know him better and better each day, I've found myself asking-- What kind of EPAMD can't stand upright without external aids, or quick-fix gimmicks gleaned from reading the internet????

Sure there's an answer to your problem...I'm surprised Karl responded without commenting on this. I have a one word answer for you:

e167

Now whether you'll be able to get Herbie programmed with E-stand, well, I don't know. But it sounds like this would satisfy your complaint, eh?

ps - By the way, my e167 is named "Silver".

[KSagal]

SEGsby

For what it is worth, I am glad that no innocent people were injured in this altercation, but I have been disturbed by it since I first read about it.

I was disturbed by the very title of the thread.

I will start by saying that everyone has their right to express themselves, and disturbing me need not have any bearing on other people's activities, but I suspect that I am not the only person who feels uncomfortable here.

First off, this forum is used by many people, many looking for information to use against segways, their operation, and their operators. When we post, we should realize that we are in the public square, and what we say, especially if irresponsible, can come back to haunt us, or other seggers...

This has happened before. This forum was used to vent some frustrations that were meant for the segging community, but made it out to the greater press, and used against a segger in a different community...

As for the event itself, there are many ways to look at it...

Psychology is a funny thing. Often times I have found that you will find what you are looking for. It is far harder to find what you are not looking for... Clearly there are also forces that will find you, regardless of your stance, at least some people find this to be true. I usually don't.

To take pride in successfully besting an attacker is fine. But, for me, out foxing him makes more sense...

The statement was made that there was fear that there may have been accomplices in wait. If that were so, then would a hit and run be the best plan of action, given the 12.5 mph max speed?

If a collision was imminent, I ask why? You saw him comming. You saw him setting up. You saw him commit to the hit. Why didn't you just stop short? He would have sailed right in front of you, and there would have been no chance for him to stop as fast as you. Then you could have just glode away, without incident.

I know that many people may see this as shying away from the challenge. To be honest, I am not challenged by young men on skateboards. I do not feel the need to demonstrate my ability to withstand their attack, because I know my own place, my own worth, and my own value. I know this even if they don't...

There are many cultures that judge a measure of a man by the enemies he has... I am better than to have such an insignificant enemy.

Now, it is quite possible that your story did not detail the opportunities you had or exercised to avoid this altercation, because you saw no alternatives... I don't have a way to know.

I do know that you spoke of the value of being armed. You spoke of the need for it. That says to me that you anticipate trouble.

I spoke of the lack of need to be armed. I spoke of ways to modify my life and my glide path to take me out of the need to be armed. We are different...

I am not offering my alternative thought process as a judgement of right or wrong, what is right for me may not be for you, but on the equal footing, what is right for you may be wrong for me...

On the detail of adding that the young man was black. I would have said it as well. I spoke with my Wife on this, as she has a very different perspective than I. I am quite confident that I would have mentioned that he was black, because, even though I attempt to not be particularly racest, when boiled down, my upbringing has lead me to the base reaction that a young black man may indeed be a slightly larger risk than a young white man. I am a white guy from the suburbs. I would think that on a base level, any minority would add a value of unfamiliarity, and that increases my level of wariness...

My position is not politically correct, but it is honest. By the way, if I were black, and I was predjudice against a black guy vs a white guy, it would still be statisticly valid. Being racest, or profiling, is not restricted to cross ethnic groupings...

In speaking with my better half, I realized my predjudice. She would base her profile on his attire. She is more PC than me, most times, but would base her risk assessment on his clothes and infer from that his socio-economic position. Is that less racest? I don't know.

Any way you do it, it is human nature. Anyone who says they do not have pre-concieved ideas is either an idiot, or telling a lie. Thinking something and acting in a racest way are two very different things...

My personal impression, is that they reason that the man was described as black was to increased the perception of danger. It may have been intentional or from your subconscience, but it was inserted for that reason.

My offerings here are intended to inspire introspection in us all. I make no judgements as to what any other person should have done. All I say is what I would have done, or hope that I would have done, had I been in the same situation... Of course, that is pure fantasy, because even if I was on the same street at the same day, and observed by the same people, there is no way to tell if they would have reacted the same, or if I would have assessed the whole thing and decided on a different route...

I am sure there are several people who must be chomping at the bit to comment, or tear me apart for this honesty... Go to it!

[KSagal]

Sure there's an answer to your problem...I'm surprised Karl responded without commenting on this. I have a one word answer for you:

e167

Now whether you'll be able to get Herbie programmed with E-stand, well, I don't know. But it sounds like this would satisfy your complaint, eh?


I was pre-occupied with post # 42...


Actually, I was under the impression that SEGsby has an i2. I suffer from the same problem, in that I have an e-167, which is like the Lone Ranger's 'Silver'. It is my trusty steed, and when I get off, it is smart enough to ground rein and wait for me...

my i2, is like a young colt... never stays where you put him, even if you are still standing on the platform, he still turn around and wanders... The other day I leaned him against a fence post, turned my back, and 60 seconds later, he turned 180 degrees and ran off into a snow bank... Dumb kid stuff. I will be happy when it grows up with the kickstand, and a couple upgrades of the software. ( I am aware of none at this point, but feel it is enevitable, as my 167 has had 10, 12, 12.1, 14, 14.1, and 14.2 that I can recall.)

Truely, I will not be satisfied till I have an e2. I expect to have a long wait...

[PeteInLongBeach]

SEGsby

If a collision was imminent, I ask why? You saw him comming. You saw him setting up. You saw him commit to the hit. Why didn't you just stop short? He would have sailed right in front of you, and there would have been no chance for him to stop as fast as you. Then you could have just glode away, without incident.

Considering you weren't there, you're making a lot of assumptions...

I didn't interpret the scenario that way at all. It sounded like it was much less expected, much quicker, and his response seemed to be an emergency/evasive reponse. Not much time for monday morning quarterbacking or 20/20 hindsight under those circumstances. He was defending himself against an attack. By the time he logically analyzed the threat to any degree, he could have been flung off into the street. Then what would we be discussing right now?

Who are we to be judgemental?

[Desert_Seg]

...It sounded like it was much less expected, much quicker, and his response seemed to be an emergency/evasive reponse...

Not being judgmental but like Karl I believe this was a measured response, not an emergency / evasive response. I quote:

"I watched him track my progress then glance down & quickly adjust his board. Then he suddenly launched at an angle to intercept my trajectory. I kept my velocity constant as he hit the side of my wheel with his skateboard (leaving a white mark on my left hub). As we impacted I jabbed out my left hand and made a fist, while groceries dangled in doubled plastic bags below."

This is much more than emergency, this is almost a planned action on the part of both parties.

Steven

[Worm]

I guess we need a reenactment, with all Segchat members watching.

With a French Mime on the side who knows american sign language signing in english for the english speaking hard of hearing.

[ryan_walters]

If I knew more about them, I would have added it. But that's all I have; Age, Race and Gender. And that's what's in the post, which is the same information the police got-- just the facts.

SEGsby

I don't understand this either. What is the PC way to say someone is 'black'? "A young male with light-ness challenged skin"?

I've seen other people phonetically spell out peoples particular accents. I don't recall anybody accusing them of being racist, either directly, or indirectly.

[ryan_walters]

I do know that you spoke of the value of being armed. You spoke of the need for it. That says to me that you anticipate trouble.

While attending high school, growing up in a small town (~2000 people) on Vancouver Island in BC, I seriously considered bringing a folding 'pocket' knife along with me. After being physically threatened numerous times, and assulted once, I don't think it would have been out of line. The authorities, couldn't, or wouldn't do anything. Was I anticipating trouble? Definately. I think a lot of times, our instinct about when we're in danger, is right.

[guyler]

While attending high school, growing up in a small town (~2000 people) on Vancouver Island in BC, I seriously considered bringing a folding 'pocket' knife along with me. After being physically threatened numerous times, and assulted once, I don't think it would have been out of line. The authorities, couldn't, or wouldn't do anything. Was I anticipating trouble? Definately. I think a lot of times, our instinct about when we're in danger, is right.

It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. This applies both to seat belts and a 9mm (or equivalent) in the pocket.

[GadgetmanKen]

You know this could lead to more trouble, don't you? As in, how young was this black male? Minor perhaps, or older? Remembering some advice given to the college student who had threats made online to him from classmates, the consensus was for him to avoid the same routes he normally was making for awhile, or indefinately. And, a police report as you did. Correct?

I would avoid the boardwalk for awhile, in case he comes back for more. IE; revenge. Cause your worst fears may be, that he has friends waiting for you the next time. If you are on the boardwalk daily there's a good chance you might see him again. Perhaps maybe some type of legal equalizer may be needed, say pepper spray, or something. Perhaps he was going to ask you some questions and didn't stop in time, who knows. You could be wanted for assult, maybe on a minor, and they haven't got all the evidence, or pieces together, yet. Any ways no one can tell what they would have actually done, till it happens to them. It ain't over till the fat lady sings. Oooops, now I'm not being politically correct. Good luck, and be careful out there.

[KSagal]

First off, I never said anyone did anything wrong.

I did say, that I expect I may have done something different, but that is not the same as saying someone else is wrong, so do not 'read' into it. I am a different person, and handle myself in a different way than others may...

I said that he was expecting touble. I did not say that he was wrong to expect trouble. If someone prepares for something that they have come to believe will happen, that is not a bad thing, and no one will be able to spin my words to make it seem that I feel it is bad.

If I choose to deal with the presumtion that something will happen a particular way and another person with the same presumtion chooses to deal with it differently does not mean that someone is wrong. It means that there is more than one way to deal with a situation...

I did say, and I say again, I would likely choose to deal with the situation that was described differently than the author dealt with it, and that is all I said. I am happy to defend my position.

This is not a judgement evaluation. It is an alternative to the presentation that was made.

Is anyone here really willing to say AGAIN that there is no room for me to state my opinions? And I agree that it is difficult to say with certainty how a person would deal with a particular situation, if they were not there, it is not difficult to state how a person may have previously dealt with a similar situation in their previous life experience...

I don't know how old most people posting here are, or their life experiences... I am a disabled veteran of the United States Army, have lived in several places around the world, have visited at least 20 different countries, am a private pilot, a liscensed skydive instructor, a talk show host on cable, run for and won public office, competed and won bicycle races in my youth, climbed the tallest Alp in Germany (After I had my right knee reconstructed) and have had a number of other experiences in my life. I am now happily a Dad and Huspand, home owner, landlord, Zoning appeals officer, and engineer.

I believe that my experince in life has been sufficient to predict how I would deal with a young man on a skateboard with an anti social intent. And with all that, I may predict wrong. But I can reasonably predict.

If people want to say that it is okay to hit this guy, as the title of this thread says, that is fine. I just offered an alternative...

[BillPaxton]

Last night I was with two old friends in a restaurant and my friend (Ray) realized I had no fork. He mentioned this to his wife Anna and she immediately stood up and went to the table beside which had two occupants and four place settings. She politely asked if she could 'borrow' a fork and the guy said something like 'this is our table, find your own.'
Now Ray stewed over this for half the night and Anna was horrified (she's European but not a mime). I told them at least 10 times, don't waste a minute of your life on their ignorance. At the end of the night after everyone cooled their jets, they realized that they ruined their nights (and ours) harping on someone else's stupidity, and we all left content.

-What I'm getting at is that you can go back and forth all week saying 'this one is racist' - 'that one doesn't understand' and BLAH BLAH BLAH but what matters is, Segsby, we all*know* you aren't racist, despite what some may accuse you of, so why is everyone who KNOWS Segsby getting their panties in a bunch defending what we all know to be a STUPID statement?
We all know there are idiots out there, and if there were any universal law, it SHOULD be "Stupid should HURT". Don't defend against an action that needs no defense, life is WAY too short and we should be gliding instead of typing.
+B

[Worm]

and Anna was horrified (she's European but not a mime).


Are most Europeans Mimes?

Are most Mimes French?

Are French Mimes only French?

[BillPaxton]

Are most Europeans Mimes?

Are most Mimes French?

Are French Mimes only French?
I can't say for sure, but I *can* tell you a horrified Eurpoean is MUCH more fun to watch than a mime. Well, sometimes...

...Maybe I am prejudiced against mimes....

[Worm]

I just know I'm going to have Mime nightmares tonight.

At least they'll be quiet nightmares.

Oh my god, what if they speak?

Now I'm scared to go to sleep.

[KSagal]

Sometimes I wonder how this thread would have turned out if instead of using his fist, SEGsby used a wet finger and ...

Now, that would have inspired some comments!

[KSagal]

What exactly would a mime do, if they were about to be bit by a dog?

Can a mime lick their finger?

Would it matter if the dog is a French Poodle?

Are French Poodles actually mimes?

There are so many questions...

What does a mime wear under their gloves?

What happens if a mime has to burb or fart?

Can a mime have a dog?

Does a mime's dog have to wear a beret?

[eJM]

What I'm getting at is that you can go back and forth all week saying 'this one is racist' - 'that one doesn't understand' and BLAH BLAH BLAH but what matters is, Segsby, we all*know* you aren't racist, despite what some may accuse you of, so why is everyone who KNOWS Segsby getting their panties in a bunch defending what we all know to be a STUPID statement?
Not all of us know he isn't racist and you certainly don't know me well enough to label my comments stupid. In fact, I never said SEGsby was racist. I take issue with his use of race to spice up his story. I stated my opinions. I don't much care if some of you make light of them, but calling me or my statements stupid shows ignorance of the issue.

Someone wiser than most of us in this discussion has mentioned that this can be seen by a great many people. I run a forum that gets visited by 60 - 80 members during any 24 hour period, but few of them realize that we get over 1,000 visitors every day. I have a feeling the numbers are much higher than that here. So, for the guy who had a problem with me saying me and many others found this disturbing, I may be the lone voice, but I have no doubt I am not alone in my opinions.

Jim

[Sharkie]

What exactly would a mime do, if they were about to be bit by a dog?

Can a mime lick their finger?

Would it matter if the dog is a French Poodle?

Are French Poodles actually mimes?

There are so many questions...

What does a mime wear under their gloves?

What happens if a mime has to burb or fart?

Can a mime have a dog?

Does a mime's dog have to wear a beret?

Probably one of Karl's best posts ever! I am having a tough time typing as I roll around on the floor laughing!!!!

[Jet]

Sorry, I just don't believe you. Jim

I believe him. I have met him. You should see where he lives - Lots of interesting people. Just down the road from Venice Beach.

[Worm]

So, for the guy who had a problem with me saying me and many others found this disturbing, I may be the lone voice, but I have no doubt I am not alone in my opinions.

Jim

But you speak only for yourself. As I do and the several others that disagree with you. But we don't try to sound holier than thou by saying "and many others". Don't purport to speak for others to support your personal opinion/beliefs.

[nickyboy]

Are most Europeans Mimes?

Are most Mimes French?

Are French Mimes only French?


What is a Mime?

Sorry, I guess it's an Americanism, but as an Englishman (part of Europe but definately not a European!;) ) I have not got a clue as to what your refering!

Nick

[guyler]

A mime is a silent actor. I think in England the term is mummer.

[SegwayDan]

I think if we could somehow have gotten the story from the other guy it would have sounded a lot different.

From your account, though, it seems to have been more of a duck and run than any "victory" on your part.

Couldn't it have been that this kid just wanted to "meet you" or size you up?

Smashing into your ride with his board may have just been a jesture of aggressiveness to see what you'd do or how you'd handle it.

I think you flunked the test. In any event, your encounter with another human being was not very successful, to say nothing of your dubious "Segway ambassadorship" in this instance.

[eJM]

But you speak only for yourself. As I do and the several others that disagree with you. But we don't try to sound holier than thou by saying "and many others". Don't purport to speak for others to support your personal opinion/beliefs.
You're right, I do speak only for myself. But if I was foolish enough to believe I would be the only one disturbed by the connotations of that message, I would have kept my mouth shut. As it is, I read the papers and Internet news sites, watch too much TV and live in a multi-cultural and diverse community. So, I have no doubt there are many others and that it's not a "holier than thou" approach.

[Worm]

You're right, I do speak only for myself. But if I was foolish enough to believe I would be the only one disturbed by the connotations of that message, I would have kept my mouth shut. As it is, I read the papers and Internet news sites, watch too much TV and live in a multi-cultural and diverse community. So, I have no doubt there are many others and that it's not a "holier than thou" approach.

Please don't keep your mouth shut even if you believe you are the only one to have a certain opinion. You have every right to your opinion. Just don't say "and many others" when you are not speaking for anyone else directly.

[Worm]

I think if we could somehow have gotten the story from the other guy it would have sounded a lot different.

From your account, though, it seems to have been more of a duck and run than any "victory" on your part.

Couldn't it have been that this kid just wanted to "meet you" or size you up?

Smashing into your ride with his board may have just been a jesture of aggressiveness to see what you'd do or how you'd handle it.

I think you flunkded the test. In any event, your encounter with another human being was not very successful, to say nothing of your dubious "Segway ambassadorship" in this instance.

He flunked a test of "a jesture of aggressiveness" by not running, or talking his way out?

How do you say he should have passed a test of "a jesture of aggressiveness?

Surrendering immediately?

I think SEGsby did fine.

(And, I think this happened too fast for a wet finger in the butt.)

[Timezkware Tim]

Here's my opinion:

When telling or writing a story, you describe people and things by what stands out, by what differentiates that person or object from similar persons or objects in the area.

If Segs was in a predominately African-American area, and everyone on the boardwalk was African-American, he probably wouldn't have said the "black" youth. I glide on this boardwalk everyday and describing someone that way is not surprising.

In other words, if this were an area predominately African-American, and there was a caucasian in the story, he might have said "the white guy approached me". That wouldn't mean he has anything against "whites" either.

In a predominantly Caucasian area where everyone on the boardwalk was Caucasian, it's doubtful that he would describe an individual as "the white guy". On the Venice boardwalk where Segs was, African-Americans are the minority.

I don't think that describing someone by their physical characteristics is necessarily racist. Being politically correct is important, but one cannot automatically ring the racist alarm just because their physical features are mentioned in a story. People these days are sometimes much too sensetive to equal rights and are confused as to what is appropriate and are afraid to mention ANYTHING if it has to do with race.

The only thing innappropriate was using the term "black". "Black", "Negro", "and "Colored" are dated terms. When referring to that race, the only appropriate term is, "African-American".

As far as the Venice boardwalk being a dangerous place, Segs mentioned that the youth was "standing under a streetlamp". People usually don't use this phrase in daytime situations. I'm willing to bet this happened at night (Perhaps Segs will tell us). The beach at night and the beach during the day are two different animals. At night when closed to the public you're always on your guard because there are many, many more transients and troublemakers (of all colors) than in the daytime with millions of tourists.

As far as backing off or stopping when someone comes at you very quickly, it might be next to impossible depending how far away they are, how fast they are going, and how much warning you have. Below is the re-post from last year on the same boardwalk when a skateboard was quickly shot out at me. I had no time to stop as it all happened in about 1 second.

Today i was gliding past the Sea Castle, just south of the pier, where the concrete walk is really wide, and a kid standing just behind the building (I could see his shadow) purposley shot his skateboard across the walk right in my path. The sadistic little goonie wanted to see me faceplant, just for fun.

I had no choice but to bear down and be prepared to dive off and try to roll. Low and behold, when Ginger met the skateboard, CRACK! board gets crushed and instantly smashed in 2 pieces. Ginger never slowed down or missed a beat. It was like going over a little bump. That'll show the little weisenheimer, lol.

Tim


Tim

[polo_pro]

Folks, rather than arguing and trying to tear each other down with words that'll be lost as soon as this thread falls off the first page, I'd like to suggest something else. Everyone on this forum has a "reputation"...for most people it's a green square just below their name. Any reader can influence a person's reputation for good or bad.

To do this, just go to the small scale icon in the bottom right of their post. Clicking it gives you a window where you can say "I approve" or "I disapprove". You also get a comment field where you can express your opinion and sign your name (if you want). If you don't put your name, then the person will never know who made the comment and changed their reputation. I generally discourage people from doing this.

If a person gets many "I disapproves", then the square under their name becomes red. If enough people disapprove, then it'll become two red squares. Or for that matter, two green squares if lots of people like what someone says.

You can raise or lower a person's reputation for any reason. Heck, someone (who didn't sign their name) even lowered my reputation for telling people how to do change other people's reputation! I guess that person just prefers everyone remain ignorant...

ps - I like reputation because in my opinion in reduces the bickering. It takes disagreements offline and people don't feel a need to complain (or "nice job") in threads. Instead they just raise or lower a person's reputation and that follows them around showing all new chat members what everyone thinks of the person.

[SegwayDan]

No he didn't. He went into fear and fled. He didn't even look back to see what happend to the guy.

Would YOU want to live with the possible consequences of such a clash? Would YOU like to wonder from here out if the other guy is going to make another "attack?" I call that more fear. Will Segsby avoid that area now? What will he do the next time?

And why didn't he simply stop or slow down to avoid the collision in the first place?

Any way you look at it, it's NOT the sort of thing anyone but a ghetto thug would be "proud" of. It's certainly something Segway Inc. wouldn't want to publicize as a customer success story.

I just think Segsby could and SHOULD have handled the whole thing much better.

[Desert_Seg]

...The only thing innappropriate was using the term "black". "Black", "Negro", "and "Colored" are dated terms. When referring to that race, the only appropriate term is, "African-American"...

Tim

Racism is a funny thing (not funny ha ha but funny how people view it). Using the term black isn't necessarily racist, in many ways it might be indicative of where you grew up or even the environ in which you live, work, and play.

However, the appropriate term isn't "African American"....it is "American of African descent".

While I am 50% Hispanic, I am not Hispanic-American. I am an American first, but an American who has a rich Hispanic history, a history of which I am as proud of as I am of being an American. But, I am an American first and foremost.

What binds us as Americans is our nationality. If we begin to separate ourselves based on race (African-American, Hispanic-American, Asian-American...) than we risk creating a segregated community, and, unfortunately, we can already see this happening.

Yes, we should all feel proud of our heritage but we should also remember that we are Americans first, and proud to be so.

Steven
(end of rant)

[KSagal]

What happens if the guy's family was from Haiti? I am confused. I don't particularly like lables anyway...

I surely don't want anyone to realize that my skin is closer to pink than to white. Maybe I should call myself tan with striations of light red...

Just so people know what to call me, I prefer to be called an American of tan and light red countenance, who is follically challenged, under tall for his weight, and swaggers, but it has nothing to do with his re-assembled knees. Please do not condense this into a word or two, they would be inaccurate...

[Timezkware Tim]

Racism is a funny thing (not funny ha ha but funny how people view it). Using the term black isn't necessarily racist, in many ways it might be indicative of where you grew up or even the environ in which you live, work, and play.

However, the appropriate term isn't "African American"....it is "American of African descent".

While I am 50% Hispanic, I am not Hispanic-American. I am an American first, but an American who has a rich Hispanic history, a history of which I am as proud of as I am of being an American. But, I am an American first and foremost.

What binds us as Americans is our nationality. If we begin to separate ourselves based on race (African-American, Hispanic-American, Asian-American...) than we risk creating a segregated community, and, unfortunately, we can already see this happening.

Yes, we should all feel proud of our heritage but we should also remember that we are Americans first, and proud to be so.

Steven
(end of rant)

I don't want to get too convoluted on this tangent, but as far as I know from seeing an NAACP press conference several years ago followed by many news stories on the subject, Americans of African descent now want to be referred to as African-Americans, and not "Americans of African descent", "Afro-Americans", "Blacks", "Negros", or "Colored People" when described vocally or in print. This is now well known common terminology here in the US, and has been used in the press for several years.

BTW, I was just correcting Segby's use of the term in a semantical way, and not commenting on any intent of the terms involved.

Also, good luck with the Cubbies, Steven. It's going to be a good year for both of us. Make sure you Tivo ESPN Sunday night to see some really good baseball. :D

Tim

[Desert_Seg]

I don't want to get too convoluted on this tangent, but as far as I know from seeing an NAACP press conference several years ago followed by many news stories on the subject, Americans of African descent now want to be referred to as African-Americans, and not "Americans of African descent", "Afro-Americans", "Blacks", "Negros", or "Colored People" when described vocally or in print. This is now well known common terminology here in the US, and has been used in the press for several years.

Be that as it may, or as NAACP may want it, I will continue to call them Americans of African Descent....as they are Americans first.

Also, good luck with the Cubbies, Steven. It's going to be a good year for both of us. Make sure you Tivo ESPN Sunday night to see some really good baseball. :D

I'm with you on this. I had made a special effort to be back in the US for this game but....as Murphy would have it, I can't leave until Sunday night (0120 our time) so the game will be ongoing as I land in London. I will, however, catch game two, sitting in Virginia Beach with my kids and brand new grandkid!

Steven

[hellphish]

No black person that I know refers to themselves as african-american. They just say "black." My Coworker, who is Jamacian, invited me out with him and his buddies. He said "Hey, do you want to roll out with some of my homies? It will be a bunch of scary black dudes, but if I say you're cool, you're cool." He didn't say "a bunch of african american fellows." Terms like "African-American" and "Caucasian" are for police officers and people with sticks up their butts.

BTW, regarding reputation on the forums. It doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't help solve debates either. All it does is let you annonymously slap someone else in the face, behind their back. It is like disagreeing with someone, then sneaking out to the parking lot and slashing their tires because they pissed you off. "Oh that'll show him!" Just take your issues to a PM if you're worried about cluttering up a thread.

PS. I used to work with an egyptian man at the Outback Steakhouse. I used to call him an African and it would always make him a little peeved. I really miss working there actually. Working in close quarters with funny and energetic people was really enjoyable.

[Worm]

No black person that I know refers to themselves as african-american. They just say "black." My Coworker, who is Jamacian, invited me out with him and his buddies. He said "Hey, do you want to roll out with some of my homies? It will be a bunch of scary black dudes, but if I say you're cool, you're cool." He didn't say "a bunch of african american fellows." Terms like "African-American" and "Caucasian" are for police officers and people with sticks up their butts.

BTW, regarding reputation on the forums. It doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't help solve debates either. All it does is let you annonymously slap someone else in the face, behind their back. It is like disagreeing with someone, then sneaking out to the parking lot and slashing their tires because they pissed you off. "Oh that'll show him!" Just take your issues to a PM if you're worried about cluttering up a thread.

PS. I used to work with an egyptian man at the Outback Steakhouse. I used to call him an African and it would always make him a little peeved. I really miss working there actually. Working in close quarters with funny and energetic people was really enjoyable.

I agree.

Even on the TV news, whether a black or white newscaster, I hear the terms Black and African-American used interchangeably. Often the same newscaster using both terms in the same story.

And I also wholeheartedly agree, that I am an American first.

I agree about "discussing" here and not constantly slapping reputations. If comments are through "reputation slaps", then there would be a lot less discussing. And this would be a lot less interesting. You are discussing here because you are interested. And just maybe the more provocative the more you are interested.

[eJM]

Everyone on this forum has a "reputation"...for most people it's a green square just below their name. Any reader can influence a person's reputation for good or bad.
I had forgotten about that feature. I don't use it on my forum because too many people abuse it. Some people use it as a drive-by or hit and run tactic. Take for instance the 4 cowards who left me bad rep:

You have absolutely no right to INFER racist characteristics to someone protecting themselves.
He wasn't protecting himself. He knew far enough in advance to take evasive action. He chose to clash with the guy. And I have as much right as anyone to voice my opinion. You gave me bad rep for having one.

why so negative to our friends? We know these people for a long time, why would you publicly call them racist? This is a PM issue unless you are just stirring the pot.
SEGsby isn't my friend, he's just another member of the same forum I belong to. He has yet to prove he is a friend of mine. Such is the way of the world. And as I mentioned before you gave me bad rep, I didn't call him racist. I had an issue with the use of the term "black". You gave me bad rep because you thought I said something I didn't.

Unnecessary concern about comment- not a racial comment
It was unnecessary concern to you. Who are you to tell me what to be concerned about? I felt it was an inappropriate description that was added only to increase the sense of danger. I felt that was completely unwarranted. You gave me bad rep because I don't have the same values you have.

Focusing the thread on race was inappropriate
Well, I hope you gave bad rep to all of the others who decided to drag this out. It wasn't my focus. I made a comment about it being disturbing and all of a sudden it is the new topic de jour. You gave me bad rep because you think I have more power than I do.

None of you wanted me to know who you were, which to me is a cowardly act. I have been involved in one capacity or another in forums since 1992 and this is nothing new. I see new members get trounced on by the regulars pretty often. I don't care about green or red buttons. I care about communication skills. That was the premise for my initial remarks. I am sorry some of you don't understand that.

Jim

[Desert_Seg]

Segsby....little did you know that your one little post would generate 8 pages of comments...and still counting.

We've covered the gamut on this one thread. If we could only add politics and religion we might get Buckaroo Banzai back posting!

Steven

[Timezkware Tim]

No black person that I know refers to themselves as african-american. They just say "black."

OK., one last comment on this subject just to be clear. Since it hyjacks the thread, please don't respond to me here. If you want to talk about this further, let's PM it with the interested parties.

In my opinion, it's important that the correct terms are used in our society, even if others misuse them. For example, Asian people are no longer referred to as "Oriental". Oriental is a word to describe an inanimate object such as a sauce or a rug. Reffering to an Asian as an Oriental is now considered an insult. We should respect any group that adopts their identity, even if some people in that group still use the wrong term.

Some older people (of all backgrounds) still use the term Negro, but that doesn't make it right. I'm not offering a subjective opinion, I'm talking about reality here. 20 years ago, the people of African descent in this country en masse decided that they wanted to be referred to as "African-American". If you say that "No black person that I know refers to themselves as african-american", you must know very few African-Americans. Most African-Americans prefer the correct term. I hear and read it every day from people of all races. Pick up any newspaper or national publication, including African-American publications or turn on the TV and you'll see what I mean.

In the mid sixties, the African-American community in the US were commonly reffered to as coloreds or colored people. When the term "black" was adopted, many people who were slow to change continued to use colored people. After some time, this eventually was dropped as "black" became the accepted term. (When was the last time you heard "Coloreds" used?)

"African-American" is now the accepted term, even though some people still use "black". "Black" will eventually be dropped as most people of that race consider it to be improper. Below is a excerp from Wikipedia describing the history of the terms. If this is still unclear, please do some research. I'm talking about well documented history, not just an opinion.

The bottom line is that "Black" is considered improper and should not be used, even if some African-Americans still use it.

(From Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American#The_term_.22African_American.22 )

...In the 1980s the term African American was coined on the model of, for example, German American. It was largely popularized by Jesse Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson), and quickly adopted by major newspapers. Many blacks in America expressed a preference for the term as it was formed in the same way as the names for other ethnic groups. Some argued further that, because of the historical circumstances surrounding the capture, enslavement and systematic attempts to de-Africanize blacks in the U.S. under chattel slavery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chattel_slavery), most African Americans are unable to trace their ancestry to a specific African nation; hence, the entire continent serves as a geographic marker.

[Sal]

I am going to move this thread off-topic so the current discussion can continue within the context of the original thread.

Very interesting discussion by the way.

Thanks,
Sal

[Worm]

Tim:

You used the following quote to illustrate that the term "black" is wrong. Your quote included: "Many blacks in America" and to de-Africanize blacks"


Quote:
...In the 1980s the term African American was coined on the model of, for example, German American. It was largely popularized by Jesse Jackson, and quickly adopted by major newspapers. Many blacks in America expressed a preference for the term as it was formed in the same way as the names for other ethnic groups. Some argued further that, because of the historical circumstances surrounding the capture, enslavement and systematic attempts to de-Africanize blacks in the U.S. under chattel slavery, most African Americans are unable to trace their ancestry to a specific African nation; hence, the entire continent serves as a geographic marker.

[hellphish]

I'd like to point out that Jamaica isn't in Africa. My black friend at work is neither African nor American.

I do have issue with calling black people "blacks" just as I have an issue with people calling white people "whites." It makes it look like you're picking teams.

BTW, what do the initials "NAACP" stand for?

EDIT: It stands for "National Association for the Advancement of Colored People."

[polo_pro]

I prefer to be called "the polo player formerly known as prin...I mean, plomoh".

(ah...classic OPTA...but sadly this thread found it's way to OT before I could do my handy work)

[KSagal]

As an American of Tan countenance with light red striations, I find it intersesting that at least one person here, and it seems to me that more than one person has seen fit to lecture us on the proper way to call very large groups of people.

I recall and will not recheck that I was told that "this is how these people choose to be called"... According to whom?

I was insulted reading at least one very clearly written lecture, as if some other person has knowledge that is not available to others. He even said that he has more experience, yet how could he possibly know what experiences others on this board have?

I'll not quote this particular post or that, several here have been over the top. I am sure that some people here will be insulted that I have called them on this, and some that I do not even recall will insist that I am only singling them out, but that does not matter...

I don't think one person can or should present themself as knowing the will and desire of large groups of people. Within large groups there are always variations... I believe it is reasonable to request that people not be derogatory in their lables but the definition of this or that being derogatory is not up to one person, regardless of how much that person deems themself 'in the know'....

I will use an example... Hebrew is an ancient language, commonly spoken historically by Jews. Yiddish is a more recient language (with elements of Hebrew, German, Rusian, and other Slavic dialects) , commonly spoken by Jews from certain areas in europe originally, and then by their decendents.

If a non Jew were to refer to a person as speaking "Jewish" I would not really know if they were refering to Hebrew, or Yiddish, but I could and have said in the past that they were being politically incorrect, and somewhat insensitive. This is a position that I am familiar with...

My mother is in her late 70s. On more than one occasion, she has told me this or that was said in 'Jewish'. I believe she was referring to Yiddish, but I am her son. Should I 'correct' her? Who is it that is insulted by that term? Is she not someone who is in the group that would be defended by me telling other people not to use that term?

I know black people who refer to themselves as black. I know black people (and I use that term out of respect for the people that CHOOSE to call themselves that, who am I to call them African anything, since they come from the carribian?) I am happy to refer to a person in the manner that either they refer to themselves, or in a manner that is consistant with what they have asked me to call them.

Personally, I think that many people are too thin skinned about much of this. An insult is an insult, and a complement is a complement and a neutral word is a neutral word... Intonation can make the most benign word into a complement or insult.

I have fairly well had my fill of all this. I have already posted that I believe the reason that we are even talking about this is that a young man was called black in a story, and I believe that there was an attempt to increase the perception of potential danger by using that descriptor. It may have been accurate, politically correct or otherwize, but it was used to further the sense of danger, in that particular instance. I am not saying that I was insulted, or that choice of adjectives was not appropriate, I am saying that it was appropriate for what was being attempted to be conveyed, and it worked for me... I also indicated that it did not work for others.

One more time, I am honest, and I am subjective as a result of being a human being, and draw upon my personal experiences and the things I have learned. I judge situations by the tools I have available, and strive to give the benifit of the doubt when I can, and further strive to be more and better than the results of just what someone else told me, and strive to act better than my many many teachers...

I also take extream efforts to teach the same...

[hellphish]

Personally, I think that many people are too thin skinned about much of this. An insult is an insult, and a complement is a complement and a neutral word is a neutral word... Intonation can make the most benign word into a complement or insult.

Thank you Karl! You nailed it. Way to end the thread. :)

[SEGsby]

If there was a firmware update that let Herbie stand up on his own, be it E-Stand or E-Park, I'd go for it. :)

It would be a huge help while I attach the leenstear lock..

SEGsby

Sure there's an answer to your problem...I'm surprised Karl responded without commenting on this. I have a one word answer for you:

e167

Now whether you'll be able to get Herbie programmed with E-stand, well, I don't know. But it sounds like this would satisfy your complaint, eh?

ps - By the way, my e167 is named "Silver".

[SEGsby]

eJM has been awesome, and I want people to leave eJM alone. This person's brave enough to say what they truly eel and believe, despite my disagreement over their position. They have the right to chose how they see the universe around them-- just like each of us must.

And that's cool. This is what freedom is all about-- choice, thought and dialog. And there certainly has been a lot of dialog on this topic...

But it's the people who whisper to conspire behind people's backs that I can't stand... And that is not how eJM has handled the situation. That impresses me greatly.

I agree with Worm 100%. Please don't keep your mouth shut. Please do NOT STOP contributing to this subculture! Diversity is what we need, and that is what makes us all grow, think and improve as incomplete beings who try to make things better around us.

Disagreement and misunderstanding and overreaction may exist now, but the future can be better because of it. Much better, if we let it.

Oh, and I can't find any pics of Amish Mimes...

SEGsby

Please don't keep your mouth shut even if you believe you are the only one to have a certain opinion. You have every right to your opinion. Just don't say "and many others" when you are not speaking for anyone else directly.

[BillPaxton]

Yes Worm - please don't stop. You are a breath of fresh air. But you must stop mocking my past life as a mime...

[SEGsby]

All people are colored.

Human skin is generally less than 1% different, when one compares DNA between all the known races. The only notable difference is the amount of Melanin produced, which gives all humans a distinctive coloration. Individual variation, age, health and exposure to the Sun can of course, alter the appearance of any skin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin

The name of this organization has always confused me, since all people are by default, colored in some fashion. Even albinos (not a race), who are the whitest of all the humans on planet earth, are probably not being represented by this group-- as it seems to organizationally, politically & linguistically imply that White is not a color.

Perhaps I'm confused on this subject?

SEGsby

...EDIT: It stands for "National Association for the Advancement of Colored People."

[eJM]

Thank you, SEGsby, I appreciate every word of your last post (you people are too quick - I refer to post #87 (http://forums.segwaychat.com/showpost.php?p=139989&postcount=87).). Drive-by rep shooter number 5 (another coward who didn't want to give a name) seems to think I joined with a chip on my shoulder. I'm glad to see that may not be the case with you - besides the fact that I joined almost 6 months ago and have yet to challenge anyone to a duel.

It has been an interesting discussion and I am glad to know a few of the members a little better because of it. Thanks again for the kind words. Maybe some of your good manners will rub off on a few others.

Jim

[SEGsby]

Naw, you're fine. I appreciate someone who's willing to play devil's advocate instead of drinking cool-aide like most folk seem to, 'cause it's less confrontational & more socially acceptable...

Since I've joined here, I've learned a lot about myself thru other people's posts, such as:

1. I'm a worthless whiner and whenever I complain about accessories, it's either a dead horse topic, or I'm just a broken record that does no one any good.

2. I love to electrocute people with stun guns. Because I carry one for self defense, that must mean that I'm itching to use it on someone; though I never have. Yet.

3. I beg people to beat me up and attack me when I ride my segway. Perhaps they can spot my evil chi at 30 feet and scream 'DANGER!' to warn others, or perhaps it's my fear of falling that they mistake as evil intent, or I'm so dorky looking as I glide, I must be an easy target, and thus, deserve everything I get coming to me.

4. I'm mean to people who are mean to me, so that makes me the bigger a$$hole.

5. Mimes are people too, no matter their nationality or brand of face paint.

As for manners, you'll find I don't have many. But welcome to Segchat, where we're all individuals just trying to get along and have fun with this Segway thing-- and sometimes don't!

Don't fret about the points, be they cowardly given or not. As controversial as I tend to be here, I can't worry much about what others think. If I did, I would not be using my Segway in public. They hate me, you know.

SEGsby

[Worm]

SEGsby:

Bravo! Excellent! Well said!

(I guess you don't know about the cool-aid from the 60's)

Maybe you could change your avatar to a sideview of a dork on a segway, zapping an old lady with a stun gun, while running over a young male?

[SEGsby]

Worm, don't be weird... *smack*

Two days ago, I crashed Herbie in a 6 inch deep drift of beach sand on the boardwalk. I didn't see it in the dark, until it was too late. Funny how time seems to slow down, and you remember things that normally, you don't see. Like, the wheels on the seg spinning in slo-mo, as it tried to get a grip on a surface, kicking up sprays of sand as it flailed and rotated to the left... I lost traction and fell over the handlebars, landing on my right side. The deep piles of sand were leftovers from that windy evening when I got broadsided by a skateboarder earlier in the week. I'm thinking ETT's would be useful here, if the city isn't going to clean this stuff up.

But as I went to the local dealer today to see if they had replacement parts for me, they all knew about the incident I wrote about earlier in the week, and were asking questions about it. I was a little embarrassed but I tried to clarify things for them a bit better.

One of the questions asked, was very strange, I thought. They wanted to know if I was a writer. I told them I wasn't. I just do computer graphics for a local studio here, in their commercial division. But I did try to explain that when I post, I try not to be boring-- which sometimes gets me in a bit of trouble. I think trying to paint mental images & entertain with words helps make up for me not being much of a statesman when I glide and people give me a hard time about it. It's also somewhat therapeutic.

BTW, the Santa Monica Dealer had a new Infokey Dock and handlebars for Herbie in stock! Tressa put on the new dock and I'll mess with the grips when I get home from work later tonight. Besides some bruising, both Herbie and I are fine. :)

SEGsby

[KSagal]

SEGsby,

Sorry to hear about your mishap. I am glad you are okay, and your seg will be...

It would be a tremendous loss to this forum if you were out of commission... Who would we all complain about? Other people do worse things, but you are more fun to pile on...

Your writing skills come into this... It is no fun to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. You, on the other hand are lots of fun. Every pass or volly has a comeback... Great for the debate, and all sides get well represented...

Keep it up. I cannot wait till your next adventure...

[Sharkie]

Worm, don't be weird... *smack*

Two days ago, I crashed Herbie in a 6 inch deep drift of beach sand on the boardwalk. I didn't see it in the dark, until it was too late. Funny how time seems to slow down, and you remember things that normally, you don't see. Like, the wheels on the seg spinning in slo-mo, as it tried to get a grip on a surface, kicking up sprays of sand as it flailed and rotated to the left... I lost traction and fell over the handlebars, landing on my right side. The deep piles of sand were leftovers from that windy evening when I got broadsided by a skateboarder earlier in the week. I'm thinking ETT's would be useful here, if the city isn't going to clean this stuff up.
SEGsby

Unfortunately, ETT's wouldn't help in this situation. Soft or loose sand is one of the few things I dreaded when I rode a motorcycle. Nothing will give you traction when the surface itself is not stable. While ETT's may grip the sand better, if the sand itself moves, that's not much help. The only thing you can do in this sort of situation is be extra vigilant for this type of obstacle, and either avoid it or be extra careful when you traverse it. Unfortunately, some things are a problem with pretty much any sort of tire.

Jim

[KSagal]

I had a similar incident a few months ago. I was gliding along a clean sidewalk several days after a snow storm... The season was not new, so there were frozen snow banks on both sides of the sidewalk...

At one point (I would guess I was going about 8 mph) I passed a small breach in the snow bank and hit about 6 inches of a blown in snow drift. (Almost identical to SEGsby's)

My i2 first slowed down because of the drag of going into the soft snow, but my body did not, this caused me to lean forward, which gave the input to increase speed, which was tough on standard tires, in snow deep enough that it was piling up in front of the batteries...

I considered this a resistance/drag event as much as a traction event... Well, the tires were not up to the drag and increase, and I went down. (Very embarrassing, but at least it was on snow... Soft)

I had considered at the time if I had been on my e instead, which has my Ketts mounted, it would likely have not gone down the same way... I believe that when the big lug tires hit that soft snow, they may have had enough grip to climb the hill. Maybe not. I have done similar obsticals before, but each situation is unique...

Anyway, it has stopped snowing, and I now have VERY aggressive tires on the i2 as well...

By the way, I agree that Segway ETTs, both gen 1 and gen 2 would not have been able to get thru this particular problem, because they could not have bitten into the hill of snow or sand well enough... They are great at slippery, but not so much at slippery/ with the extra drag component...

[BillPaxton]

I'm bidding on a pair of KETTs right now and the auction ends in 45 minutes!! (c'mon Karl, keep the K in there)

[KSagal]

I am not sure what Bill is bidding on, but Ketts are a specific tire, not the same as the michelin etts sold by segway...

THe Ketts I sold were chen Shin tires, with a japanese trials tread pattern... very knobby, but with a smooth ride. I also had super ketts, which were also chen shin tires with a more aggressive knobby tread pattern.

THe ketts were 500% more aggressive than the ETTs.

Then, on the west coast, some of the guys found a tire, made by Kings, with a similar trials tire tread. These were marginally larger in the sidewall. Still a great tire if you can get them to fit under the fenders...

I bought several sets of the tires, sold a number of sets, and then the manufacturer stopped making that tire. And the Kings were a much worse fit that many could not use.

I now have dozens of tires, and some fit, some don't and most are right on the very edge of being usable, or just onto the side of too big.

I have my original Ketts design on my e-167, and they are great. I am experimenting with a very aggressive tire that is now on my i2, but the ride is a bit choppy. More like the super ketts. I am still looking for the tire with the perfect combo of knob and smooth ride...

[BillPaxton]

I am not sure what Bill is bidding on, but Ketts are a specific tire, not the same as the michelin etts sold by segway...

The Ketts I sold were chen Shin tires
well I lost 'em anyway. Went for $179! I bought chen shin's but they were the wrong radius and the correct one is DISCONTINUED! I had the good fortune to ride on Antony's KETTs in November and I really liked the grip of them.
We rode for 8 hours through wet cobblestone and I never lost traction (well, maybe once for a second going up stairs...but who is dumb enough to try that..)

[SEGsby]

Thanks... I think?

If I get mugged or stabbed, I'll be sure to let you all know. ;)

SEGsby

..

Keep it up. I cannot wait till your next adventure...

[KSagal]

Thanks... I think?

If I get mugged or stabbed, I'll be sure to let you all know. ;)

SEGsby


If you get tazered, be sure to include the video...LOL

Copy my icon, blow it up to poster size and mount it to the front of your seg... That should clear the way for you...

With the loss of clarity of an enlargement that big, you will get the reputation of being on the 'Godzilla Glider' and the masses will scatter before you...

[SEGsby]

:(

SEGsby

If you get tazered, be sure to include the video...LOL

Copy my icon, blow it up to poster size and mount it to the front of your seg... That should clear the way for you...

With the loss of clarity of an enlargement that big, you will get the reputation of being on the 'Godzilla Glider' and the masses will scatter before you...