Consumer model can't balance on its own?

[ftropea]

From the SegwayChat newsroom, there is a new article from the Montclair Times entitled, "Novel Transport Vehicle Makes Its Montclair Debut."

- "Montclair businessman and real estate developer Paul Zimmerman is the first on his block to own “The Human Transporter.”"

- "Before Segway would sell the transporter to Zimmerman, he had to sit through a daylong tutorial on what makes the vehicle tick. Zimmerman attended the session Tuesday last week."

- "Zimmerman bought a deluxe model. His transporter is equipped with hunky mail pouches, the equivalent of a transporter bumper, and fenders on both wheels. Zimmerman’s model will stand by itself. The residential vehicle cannot stand on its own, he said. The bare-bones residential model costs $3,000, Zimmerman said."

http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=246

Interesting if true. So the residential model, or consumer version, may lack the ability to balance itself - a feature utilized by postal workers, for example, when they dismount and walk away from their Segway-HTs. I suppose that as long as the consumer/residential model has the kickstand - this shouldn't really be a problem.



Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

[Casey]

I don't understand that. As long as a Segway is left running it should be DS or IOW self balancing. Why would it not stand on it's own? No model will continue to stand up if turned off.

[Blinky]

Hello all,

I don't know much about mechanics, but maybe the Segway HT does not account for its own weight, free standing that is. Is it possible when standing on it, it then goes to work and then fully uses its balancing properties?

Maybe this could be(or is) a way for the Segway HT's to minimize on its run time power and motors to maximize its life span.

Just a theory.

[Casey]

If it had a weight sensor on the platform that required the presence of a rider for it to run it would shut down when the rider dismounted. But it seems to me it would make for an awkward dismount if it suddenly shut down as you stepped off. A time delay would cure that as long as you remembered to lean it against something or put down a kickstand.

[n/a]

quote:Zimmerman’s model will stand by itself. The residential vehicle cannot stand on its own, he said. The bare-bones residential model costs $3,000, Zimmerman said."

I would expect that the consumer model would still be sufficiently safe to mount and dismount. It had better be! Less balancing ability might imply less balancing chips?

[don c.]

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

quote:Zimmerman’s model will stand by itself. The residential vehicle cannot stand on its own, he said. The bare-bones residential model costs $3,000, Zimmerman said."

I would expect that the consumer model would still be sufficiently safe to mount and dismount. It had better be! Less balancing ability might imply less balancing chips?


from the Segway FAQ:

http://www.segway.com/faqs/faq.cgi?subject=1014821257&sec=4#1014821599

For E-Stand ("E-Stand" being an option available only on the 'e', or business, models of Segway): Why does there have to be weight in the bags of my Segway HT with the E-Stand option?

The E-Stand option uses weight to self-balance while a user is not on the unit. Your device should only be operated with the factory-supplied cargo bags securely installed. Removing these bags will cause the machine to drift, and eventually shut down, when E-Stand mode has been deployed.

[ftropea]

In order for a Segway-HT to balance, there needs to be enough weight located well above the platform. Remember that "balancing a broom stick on your hand" example? Kamen points out that it's easier to balance it from the handle - with the weight of the broom "up there." So it makes sense that this applies to the Segway-HT as well. It's easier for it to balance a load that located somewhere above the platform, preferably higher - where little shifts forward and backward can easily keep it balanced. That why the "E-stand" only works with the "E" model that has weighted bags fixed onto the control shaft.

So perhaps the consumer version will be "so lightweight" above the platform, that it isn't capable of balancing itself unless you jump on and provide a weight for it to compensate for. That sounds encouraging to me, because I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the consumer/pedestrian version is very light.. has a very small footprint.



Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

[Brooster]

Just for what it's worth Frank, I never saw the i-Series machine I rode balance on its own. That wasn't something that was demonstrated for me in Chicago. If it had that capability, I'd think I'd have seen it. In my back-room demo, I saw the "following mode," the quick forward "tipping" of the machine to re-initialize the gyros, etc. But I never saw it just stand there. I was given a pretty thorough discussion and demonstration of the i-Series machine and its capabilities. I could be wrong, but I don't think that happens.

It was always my assumption that the "e-Stand" technology applied only to the e-Series machine. Perhaps 4Seg can back me up on this.

Brooster

[don c.]

quote:Originally posted by Brooster

Just for what it's worth Frank, I never saw the i-Series machine I rode balance on its own. That wasn't something that was demonstrated for me in Chicago. If it had that capability, I'd think I'd have seen it. In my back-room demo, I saw the "following mode," the quick forward "tipping" of the machine to re-initialize the gyros, etc. But I never saw it just stand there. I was given a pretty thorough discussion and demonstration of the i-Series machine and its capabilities. I could be wrong, but I don't think that happens.

It was always my assumption that the "e-Stand" technology applied only to the e-Series machine. Perhaps 4Seg can back me up on this.

Brooster


http://www.segway.com/segway/specs_eseries.html

"The Segway™ HT e Series features the same performance attributes as our i Series, with several additions that enhance its value for commercial applications. First, it has been equipped with an "e-stand"—an electronic parking stand that allows the unit to balance unattended. This unique feature allows the user to transition on and off the device in the workplace with maximum efficiency. "

[ftropea]

Interesting point...

So what extra "tech" does the E series utilize that differentiates it from the other models, and gives it the ability to balance on its own - without a standing rider?

Please don't tell me it's cargo bags ;)

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

[n/a]

I would guess an extra gyro or two.

[ziggystardust_]

from what I understand the only difference between the i-series and the e-series is a software configuration. There is no difference in hardware config (other than the sidebags on either side of the e-series). in the e-series the software tells the machine to 'self balance' (e-stand) by finding it's own center of gravity and balancing. Thus the wheel will kick forward a little bit to bring the handlebar over the center in order to even out the weight from front to back and stabilize the unit in place unattended. The e-series actually NEEDS the side bags with some weight in it in order to 'center' the balancing. without the bags the wheels would have to kick forward so much to compensate for the front weight of the handle bar that it might tip over backwards or, at the very least, make it difficult to get back on. the bags with the weight (say some mail for the postal application) will even out the weight between the rear and the front and make the e-stand more natural.

[Seg-wager]

Very cool, thanks for the article! I'm only interested in it's ability to balance with someone on it, but I can see how for mail deliveries it would speed things up.

[Blinky]

quote:Very cool, thanks for the article! I'm only interested in it's ability to balance with someone on it, but I can see how for mail deliveries it would speed things up.

I don't know how much it would speed up the mail deliveries, but it sure would make it easier to carry around the mail. Since there is no more pushing and all.

Although, it is a possibility that the Segway-HT will affect where people will stick their mail boxes. Mostly everyone's mail boxes are up on their porch.

We will soon see how things will change around it!