iTalk

[Brooster]

Okay, I pretty much want one ...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3168733759916419298

[Sal]

Don't you love the enginuity of the Mac Zealots out there? This has been a viral video floating around the net for quite some time. Purely vaporware, but elegant and lustworthy nonetheless.

From all the Apple Podcasts I listen to on a regular basis here's the concensus on the new Apple "phone."

It will be CDMA. Have two batteries (one for the phone, the other for the mp3 and PDA), it will come in two flavors 2GB and 4GB. $280 / $380. It'll have WiFi, Bluetooth, it will not have the "i" in its name. Apple is working on it being available on multiple carriers (non GSM). Here is the kicker, it'll be made out of zirconium alloy, a ceramic type hardened radiotransparent material.

-Sal

[drmarty]

I still want it. I want them both.

Sold. Signm me up.

Marty

[Sal]

Was was I (and the podcasts I listened to) ever wrong about the details...

Though it is an expensive, and sexy device.

-Sal

P.S. I'll stick with my RAZR for now, wait until Rev 2 or 3, and wait for my Sprint Contract to expire.

[drmarty]

TADA

It was announced today by that new company, Apple Inc. They used to be Apple Computer Inc until now. Lost their computer.

Jobs showed the iTalk. Not at all like the beautiful thing in the video. And $500 for the small one and $600 or at least more for the one with larger memory. Coming out in June. And thru Cingular.

Saw it in the papers.

Anybody know more about it?

Marty

Or would that be bigger memory? More memory? Yea that's it.

[bentbiker]

TADA


Anybody know more about it?

Marty


Watch Steve introduce the iPhone at:

http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/j47d52oo/event/

Runs OS X
BT (comes w BT earpiece) and wi-fi
Functions as video iPod with large screen
Touchscreen keypad only when you need it
Full webrowsing capability and special agreement w Google Maps
Full HTML emails pushed to your phone via Yahoo
1/2 thickness of Treo and approx same footprint
2 megapixel camera
Auto switches to landscape mode when accelerometer senses twist.
Price of Cingular service not announced
Due in June

[pam]

Apple is about to be sued by Cisco Systems over the use of the name iPhone. Cisco had an iPhone software. Should be interesting to watch.
Pam

[Timezkware Tim]

Cingular might be debuting it, but eventually, shouldn't any carrier be able to use it eventually? I thought there was an esclusivity law about that. Anybody know?

The phone number on the phone in the video is actually the Apple store in Palo Alto, CA. Their store must be getting a lot of calls this week, lol.

Tim

[Brooster]

Okay, so it wasn't real ... damn! But hopefully in the not-too-distant future we'll be seeing things like this, and even better.

I have a Verizon V3 Razr, which I'm more than happy with for now. It's a good, reliable and very capable machine.

The worst thing about this is that I now have that tune stuck in my head! If this was a real product, it would be an awesome commercial. No words spoken, just ... what needs to be shown.

If only the producer of this commercial could hook up with Segway ...

Best,
Broo

[bystander]

Apple is about to be sued by Cisco Systems over the use of the name iPhone. Cisco had an iPhone software. Should be interesting to watch.
PamHere it starts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/technology/11apple.html?ref=business

Also, "Apple" also dropped the word "Computer" from their name recently.

[Desert_Seg]

iPhone - iSaw iLiked iNeed iWant

Though Broo's video was much nicer this is a good start for any phone. Now we sit back and watch the Cisco / Apple battle.

Question - Does anybody know if the iPhone is going to also be a PDA? I don't think so but would hope so.

Steven

[sfrantz]

It will run a smaller version of OS X, so it is actually a personal computer. It has address book, calendar, etc. Everything my PDA does and more.

I have a Treo 700 (which I love) but I'm hoping for an iPhone (or whatever it will be called by then) from Santa in June.
(Are you reading this Santa?)

Steve

iPhone - iSaw iLiked iNeed iWant

Question - Does anybody know if the iPhone is going to also be a PDA? I don't think so but would hope so.

Steven

[citivolus]

While the new iPhone(TM)(R)(?) looks to be the next great thing in cell city, I think the bigger news is that Apple is seriously morphing into a different entity. I feel that just as important is the introduction of the AppleTV because it shows where Apple is headed. Apple introduces a phone that can directly connect to iTunes and a networked TV appliance. Full entertainment integration? Not quite, there is one thing missing... Where is the gaming platform? I think it won't be long before both iPhone and AppleTV integrate gaming. Now only if there was an online store where you could buy games for the iPhone and AppleTV... oh wait!

[Sal]

The worst thing about this is that I now have that tune stuck in my head! If this was a real product, it would be an awesome commercial. No words spoken, just ... what needs to be shown.

If only the producer of this commercial could hook up with Segway ...

Best,
Broo

Broo, if you didn't know, the tune is from a great band: Zero7. The name of the tune is Waiting Line, it was a song from the Garden State soundtrack.

-Sal

[Sal]

Well, we'll have to see whether Apple continues to call it iPhone with the CISCO lawsuit filed. I thought I heard Steve say during his keynote that they're working on ironing out the paperwork with the name. I guess those talks fell apart.

Oh well.... The name isn't going to sell the product... I think those who have already seen it are in love with it.

I'd love to see it up close and personal and see what the baby OS X is like. And Apple's inkwell is a PERFECT companion to multitouch for this baby.

I'm happy with my Sprint RAZR, but when my contract is up... Apple will have probably revised the iPhone three times over, and maybe work out all the bugs. THAT's when I'll consider a purchase.

-Sal

[florin]

Ok, I know that certain telecom things are not possible in the USA, but I do hope they will add the following features to the european version:

- MMS
- GPRS
- UMTS

I'm also curious about the battery life when it's idle, will it last a day? or is the 12 hours the max. you can get?

Will the visual voice-mail stuff also integrated in other countries?

Does it has SIM-lock? Can you insert a SIM card in it, or is it build in?

Is it possible to install third-party software on it, or do you have to buy every piece of software via Apple? When will there be information available for third parties to develop software on it.

Is the screen scratch resistance? Or is it the first time you want to clean the screen, directly having scratches.

(In case your wondering: yes, I work in the telecom business)

[hellphish]

Cingular might be debuting it, but eventually, shouldn't any carrier be able to use it eventually? I thought there was an esclusivity law about that. Anybody know?

The phone number on the phone in the video is actually the Apple store in Palo Alto, CA. Their store must be getting a lot of calls this week, lol.

Tim

The phone will be able to be unlocked and used on other phone networks. Most features of the phone should work, except for the data stuff, such as:

random access voicemail
push email
internet access (no reason wifi won't work tho)



The iPhone demos really impressed me, its a great looking interface. IMO, this v1 model of it is not going to be worth buying. Lets look at why:

No 3rd party apps. Much of the success of other smartphones can be credited to the 3rd party developers who write interesting software for your phone. You'll only find Apple software on here. Not even your favorite OSX dashboard widget will work.

No tactile interface Apple has made a bold move by throwing out all the buttons in favor of a touchscreen-only interface. Too bold, IMO. You can't touchtype on a piece of glass. If I have forgotten to silence my iPhone and it goes off in a meeting, I wonder if I'll be able to silence it without taking it out of my pocket and searching for the silence button. No buttons on a phone means more time spent looking at it. (it is pretty though)

Cingular/GSM/EDGE only And a two-year contract. EDGE may be marketed as a fast service, but its only 40k. That is about as fast as the fastest dialup. I'm not super-familiar with Cingular's data plans anymore, but IIRC for a decent calling plan and unlimited data, you're looking at about 80 dollars a month. Assuming 500 dollars for the iPhone, using this phone will cost you 2400 dollars. (it is pretty though)

5 hour battery life during use. Many convergence devices suffer from poor battery life, and this is no exception. If I am on a long flight and I run down my iPod battery watching a movie, its not a big deal, I can charge it later when I get home. Running down the battery on the iPhone will mean no more communication with your favorite remote humans. Not to sound too FUDish, but IMO it is downright dangerous to be without your phone. Recharging once daily is bad enough on my sidekick. The thing has about 30 hours of standby. If I forget to plug it in at night, I wake up in the morning to the sound of "Plug me back in!!"

Don't call me a hater, because I'm amazed at the things they have done to make this an easily used device. At this point though, it just isn't practical for me, and I'm sure many others. First gen Apple hardware has a knack for being.... crappy. Overheating and paint-chipping laptops, I'm looking at you. But fear not, Apple also tends to put out their most expensive, all-in-one devices first. I don't think it will be long until you see a WiFi/widescreen iPod-only version of this, minus the phone (and vice-versa). Lord knows that they are doing many, many things right with this phone.

[bystander]

More things we don't know.

Battery. From a cellphone approach, the battery is always snap-on replaceable. From an ipod approach, the battery is built-in. Which will this be? Seems to me a lot of heartache can be avoided with the conventional cellphone approach on this one.

Keypad / lens. Will this turn into a big consumer hand-wringing issue? Will the dependence on the front lens doing double duty as the keypad cause smudging and scratching to spoil the view of the LCD? Will there be a field-replaceable lens / keypad offered? Or only after a general uproar and design tweak?

Actual deployment date. Any bets on how long after June it will be until this gets into general consumer's hands? Or will there conveniently be a delay in the FCC approval, or a delay in manufacturing?

Don't mean to sound too skeptical, after all, were just italking here...

[Timezkware Tim]

It sounds like a great computerphonething. I just hope it doesn't weigh as much as a gold ingot, or cost as much.

Tim

[bentbiker]

The phone will be able to be unlocked and used on other phone networks. Most features of the phone should work, except for the data stuff, such as:

random access voicemail
push email
internet access (no reason wifi won't work tho)



The iPhone demos really impressed me, its a great looking interface. IMO, this v1 model of it is not going to be worth buying. Lets look at why:

No 3rd party apps. Much of the success of other smartphones can be credited to the 3rd party developers who write interesting software for your phone. You'll only find Apple software on here. Not even your favorite OSX dashboard widget will work. I didn't see anything that said Apple will not allow 3rd party software development; where did you see that?

No tactile interface Apple has made a bold move by throwing out all the buttons in favor of a touchscreen-only interface. Too bold, IMO. You can't touchtype on a piece of glass. If I have forgotten to silence my iPhone and it goes off in a meeting, I wonder if I'll be able to silence it without taking it out of my pocket and searching for the silence button. No buttons on a phone means more time spent looking at it. (it is pretty though). Are you telling me that you can touch type on a 2" x 2" keyboard? If your phone goes off in a meeting, you've already disrupted the meeting, haven't you? What's the big deal if you need to take it out of your pocket. I've never seen anybody capable of turning off today's models without looking at it.

Cingular/GSM/EDGE only And a two-year contract. EDGE may be marketed as a fast service, but its only 40k. That is about as fast as the fastest dialup. I'm not super-familiar with Cingular's data plans anymore, but IIRC for a decent calling plan and unlimited data, you're looking at about 80 dollars a month. Assuming 500 dollars for the iPhone, using this phone will cost you 2400 dollars. (it is pretty though) The point is that people are currently paying this same monthly service and getting far less. If your assumption is correct on the charge, those people will be thrilled.

5 hour battery life during use. Many convergence devices suffer from poor battery life, and this is no exception. If I am on a long flight and I run down my iPod battery watching a movie, its not a big deal, I can charge it later when I get home. Running down the battery on the iPhone will mean no more communication with your favorite remote humans. Not to sound too FUDish, but IMO it is downright dangerous to be without your phone. Recharging once daily is bad enough on my sidekick. The thing has about 30 hours of standby. If I forget to plug it in at night, I wake up in the morning to the sound of "Plug me back in!!" If you plan on continuing to carry your old cellphone and an iPod, why not carry the new iPhone, selling your iPod, and carrying the old cellphone as an emergency phone in your briefcase (just move the SIM card over and turn it on)? If you forget to charge the unit at night, and forget to turn it off overnight, shouldn't you be punished by having to use the previously mentioned emergency backup phone?

Don't call me a hater, because I'm amazed at the things they have done to make this an easily used device. At this point though, it just isn't practical for me, and I'm sure many others. First gen Apple hardware has a knack for being.... crappy. Overheating and paint-chipping laptops, I'm looking at you. But fear not, Apple also tends to put out their most expensive, all-in-one devices first. I don't think it will be long until you see a WiFi/widescreen iPod-only version of this, minus the phone (and vice-versa). Lord knows that they are doing many, many things right with this phone.It has been a long time since I can remember any significant problem with an Apple gen1 product -- maybe 3-4 years since the problem you mention with the Titanium. All the iPods have gone wonderfully, and the transition to the entire lineup of Intel computers has gone unbelievably smoothly and fast. If you want to wait a couple years and don't get excited about having the newest and greatest, you will almost assuredly save one or two hundred bucks as prices drop, but it sure sounds like you're trying to talk yorself out of something you want -- in case you didn't notice, it sure is pretty.

Hellfish, are you related to Swedefish?

[bentbiker]

More things we don't know.

Battery. From a cellphone approach, the battery is always snap-on replaceable. From an ipod approach, the battery is built-in. Which will this be? Seems to me a lot of heartache can be avoided with the conventional cellphone approach on this one. From what I understand, the battery is NOT user replaceable, and I agree this is a negative. Don't know why Apple continues down this path.

Keypad / lens. Will this turn into a big consumer hand-wringing issue? Will the dependence on the front lens doing double duty as the keypad cause smudging and scratching to spoil the view of the LCD? Will there be a field-replaceable lens / keypad offered? Or only after a general uproar and design tweak? I asked the same thing and it sounds as if a film overlay is the only protection anticipated, and although they work great on current screens like the Treo, I wonder what they might do to this new-technology touchscreen that is supposedly more precise than anything to date.

Actual deployment date. Any bets on how long after June it will be until this gets into general consumer's hands? Or will there conveniently be a delay in the FCC approval, or a delay in manufacturing? I'll bet I can buy an iPhone before I can buy a stand for my I2. Apple previously had a horrible time hitting their ETA's, but they've hit or beat most dates over the last few years. The FCC can be a pain, but 6 months is a long time.

Don't mean to sound too skeptical, after all, were just italking here...
************

[Brooster]

Broo, if you didn't know, the tune is from a great band: Zero7. The name of the tune is Waiting Line, it was a song from the Garden State soundtrack.

-Sal

Awesome! Thanks Sal! You are a wealth of knowledge, Sir.

Broo

[bystander]

From what I understand, the battery is NOT user replaceable, and I agree this is a negative. Don't know why Apple continues down this path.
I'm a bit concerned they'll want to keep the SIM card locked inside too, along with the battery. Wouldn't that be a shot in the foot?


I'll bet I can buy an iPhone before I can buy a stand for my I2. Apple previously had a horrible time hitting their ETA's, but they've hit or beat most dates over the last few years. The FCC can be a pain, but 6 months is a long time.

I don't know that all six of those months are the FCC's fault. If you don't see some news from the FCC watching sites in the next couple of weeks, then it could be that Apple still doesn't have all it's ducks in a row.

And, Apple is targeting to sell a million of these things in a world-wide 1 billion item market. That's a base unit, not an accessory. I don't know if the sales estimates on gen2 PTs are beyond 5 to 10 K yet. And that (the kickstand) is an accessory, not a base unit. So I don't know if it's a directly comparable situation.

One interesting thing is that Apple didn't let the "FCC leak" occur, preferring to publicly disclose details, _before_ the FCC's approval process spilt the beans. The up side is, Apple is more in charge of the hype and glory, but the downside is, if the approval process doesn't go as planned, the release date gets pushed back. Which is another "lemonade" opportunity if there's some other reason to delay (that Apple doesn't want to talk about), Apple can blame it on the red tape at the FCC.

[bentbiker]

I'm a bit concerned they'll want to keep the SIM card locked inside too, along with the battery. Wouldn't that be a shot in the foot?


Steve showed the SIM card being inserted into the edge.

[citivolus]

It doesn't look good. It seems the iPhone is going to be sleek, sexy and chaste. Without 3rd party apps and 3G, it isn't going to be using ichat or skype on your WiFi link. I'm sure that is because it might cut into Cingular's profits.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=16926&pagtype=allchandate

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36919

[Sal]

It doesn't look good. It seems the iPhone is going to be sleek, sexy and chaste. Without 3rd party apps and 3G, it isn't going to be using ichat or skype on your WiFi link. I'm sure that is because it might cut into Cingular's profits.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=16926&pagtype=allchandate

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36919

I agree, I still can't quite figure out why Apple continues to pair with Cingular (agreed, that the ROKR was a huge flop). For a company on the cutting edge of design and functionality, it makes no sense.

Furthermore, I think AppleTV is also a good idea, but crippled in its capabilities, but that's should be another topic.

Maybe this is wishful thinking, but I do believe that the introduction of the iPhone is Apple's 2nd foray into tablet computing... I HOPE...

(long live the Newton - WAY ahead of its time)

-Sal

[bentbiker]

It doesn't look good. It seems the iPhone is going to be sleek, sexy and chaste. Without 3rd party apps and 3G, it isn't going to be using ichat or skype on your WiFi link. I'm sure that is because it might cut into Cingular's profits.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=16926&pagtype=allchandate

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36919
As I read it, 3rd party s/w developers can still develop for the iPhone, it is just that it would have to be marketed through Apple. It could be argued that such an arrangement would be best for the developer anyway, giving them more exposure than they might be able to get on their own. They've also left the door open for changes down the road; it could be that they just do not yet have the developers' tools for the new version of the OS.

[hellphish]

You are absolutely right about the 3rd party developers. What I meant to say is that no unsigned code (http://www.google.com/search?q=pocket+PC+applications) will be able to run on this. This is a departure from other smart phones, if I understand correctly.

Are you telling me that you can touch type on a 2" x 2" keyboard? Yes. I've used qwerty layouts since I was 3 years old. I understand that I am not the majority here. Also, don't forget about speed dial entries. Most phones allow you to hold a single button to dial a pre-determined contact. I think locating a button takes about a half-second glance. On the iPhone its menus, menus, menus. If your phone goes off in a meeting, you've already disrupted the meeting, haven't you? I have, the difference is that my pants are muffling the sound. If I pull out the phone, I lose that lowpass filter my pants are providing, and everyone gets to hear my annoying ringtone even louder, as well as see my pretty phone. What's the big deal if you need to take it out of your pocket. I've never seen anybody capable of turning off today's models without looking at it. We should meet sometime. I'm very nice in person. :)

With the correction of the "3rd Party Apps (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/technology/11cnd-apple.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)" I believe that all my points in bold (http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?p=134162#post134162) are still things that need to be tested by others before I seriously consider an iPhone. (and I am considering one) :D :D

[citivolus]

As I read it, 3rd party s/w developers can still develop for the iPhone, it is just that it would have to be marketed through Apple.
While it might arguably give developers more exposure, it also places the software under Apple's control allowing them to choke out any potential competition, ie skype. I just have a very big problem with people telling me what apps I may run on my phone
...it could be that they just do not yet have the developers' tools for the new version of the OS.
I would be surprised, shocked in fact, if they didn't simply use the latest version of xcode for development. Since xcode is based around the gnu toolchain, it is already cross platform and if the iPhone is just running a tiny version of OS X, porting apps should be fairly simple.

If Apple wants to go down that road, it's fine by me. I'll stick with carrying multiple devices until I can get what I want, although the MotoRizr (http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=3014) Z6 (http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS8033931935.html) looks promising.

[bentbiker]

We should meet sometime. I'm very nice in person.I'm sure you are a nice person. I realize that I probably come off as overly protective of this product and perhaps Apple in general, but if you'll forgive the mixing of threads and metaphors, I see the same thing being done here as is being done in Holland to the Segway. Instead of praising ten things this product does better than anything on the market, there is a concentration on the fact that the iPhone doesn't appear to have a brake. You don't have to kill my Segway just because you want to stick with your bike.**********

[hellphish]

I think you messed up your quote tags there. I didn't say that :) I think you may be right in a way, but I don't want to bring the topic of segways into the off-topic area.

As much as Jobs would like to think that the iPhone trounces all the other smartphones, the truth is that the smartphones do way, way more. They have real functionality, in an admittedly poorer interface. I've already said that this apple-gizmo does many things right, but to bill it as a smartphone when all other smartphones have more impressive features is just plain wrong. The iPhone is a fashion phone. It's a shiny gizmo for execs to pull out. All phones are lifestyle devices. For some people, the 4 year old black and white Nokia with phone and SMS only fits their lifestyle perfectly. Smartphones are phones that you can get WORK done on; open excel sheets, word docs, corporate email. Apple's phone is going to be for people who live the "iLife" who's lifestyles invlove sending photos to people, looking at their album art, and recharging their battery often. Job's claims of unsigned apps destroying the experience or ruining cingular's network are all total lies. Cingular has had blackberries with user-installable apps for a while, I don't think anyone has crashed their network yet.

[citivolus]

So if iPhone is tied to Cingular and Cingular is going to be AT&T (http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=23308), will that mean the Sherman Antitrust Act will be used to break the iPhone into pieces? Heck, I've got a nephew that can do that. :p

[Timezkware Tim]

Keypad / lens. Will this turn into a big consumer hand-wringing issue? Will the dependence on the front lens doing double duty as the keypad cause smudging and scratching to spoil the view of the LCD? Will there be a field-replaceable lens / keypad offered? Or only after a general uproar and design tweak?


Here's my take:

Most novices with touch-screen tech push the lens/screen as if it were a button at first, but adapt to just lightly tapping it as that's all you need to do (I've taught this to many new EEs). You're more likely to wear out a traditional solenoid type keypad before a touch screen, especially if you text a lot.

Tim

[bystander]

Here's my take:

Most novices with touch-screen tech push the lens/screen as if it were a button at first, but adapt to just lightly tapping it as that's all you need to do (I've taught this to many new EEs). You're more likely to wear out a traditional solenoid type keypad before a touch screen, especially if you text a lot.

TimI wasn't really concerned about wearing out the touchpad function, it was more about incidental contact (by newbies) that would make the screen look bad and make people upset.

Remember what happened on the ipod nano release? All the upset over scratched screens? And that didn't even have a touch interface on the screen area.

Since we're (now) talking about novices, won't they contact the screen enough to scratch it while they're still learning?

And if they show off their new pretty little phone to their friends, the friends will be stomping around with their fingers out of ignorance.

Unless they have some kind of "replace the first lens free" policy, we're going to see a lot of whining.

[citivolus]

Unless they have some kind of "replace the first lens free" policy, we're going to see a lot of whining.
I don't see any way around the whining regardless of any policies and not just about the screen. Heck, it has started already and I freely plead guilty. :p

[citivolus]

NY Times David Pogue made up a list of FAQ's
Part 1 (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/the-ultimate-iphone-frequently-asked-questions/) says batteries are not user replaceable.
Part 2 (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/13/ultimate-iphone-faqs-list-part-2/) has bright moments but then gets darker.
:(