Do you want to go to Disneyland or World?

[justME]

I am here in sunny CA at the Paradise Pier with my wife. She is at an education conference for End of Life care. I came by way of an airline that allowed me to use my segway as a scooter. I AM NOT ALLOWED IN THE THEME PARKS. I can go throughout the hotel and shopping area but not the park.

NOW HERE IS THE KICKER. Disney adminstration and security and others use Segways to get all over the property, including the theme parks. They will rent me one of their three wheelers. MONEY?

I have my handicap sticker in plain sight, I am wearing shorts with both legs in braces clearly showing, and I even offered to demonstrate my limited walking ablility. (I had Charcot Merie Tooth, CMT as a child) I can only walk about 1/10 of a mile before needing to sit. If I do that throughout the day I cannot move the next day.

Please consider helping our cause by writing Disney, and others you know. A boycot is my answer. I informed Disney that I will not spend one dime more than necessary and absolutely not on any souvenirs.

please consider emailing me at rsanders11@kc.rr.com

[Tarkus]

I am here in sunny CA at the Paradise Pier with my wife. She is at an education conference for End of Life care. I came by way of an airline that allowed me to use my segway as a scooter. I AM NOT ALLOWED IN THE THEME PARKS. I can go throughout the hotel and shopping area but not the park.

NOW HERE IS THE KICKER. Disney adminstration and security and others use Segways to get all over the property, including the theme parks. They will rent me one of their three wheelers. MONEY?

I have my handicap sticker in plain sight, I am wearing shorts with both legs in braces clearly showing, and I even offered to demonstrate my limited walking ablility. (I had Charcot Merie Tooth, CMT as a child) I can only walk about 1/10 of a mile before needing to sit. If I do that throughout the day I cannot move the next day.

Please consider helping our cause by writing Disney, and others you know. A boycot is my answer. I informed Disney that I will not spend one dime more than necessary and absolutely not on any souvenirs.

please consider emailing me at rsanders11@kc.rr.com

Nothing new here. We are working on the Theme Parks.
Boycotts mean little to a BIG MOUSE.

Emails & letters will get stock responses.

do as you say spend you $$$ elsewhere, at some point Disney will relent.

Please visit us at www.DRAFT.cc

Regards,
Alan

PS-This is how the "Disney Guest" feels about it.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1044258&highlight=segway+ada

10 pages, over 3000 hits

[robochick84]

Sort of a shame to just see that thread closed. I regret not hearing about it when it was active.

I enjoyed reading it, and a few novel points that I can recall after the long read.

Disney and the rental "project"; eventhough they supposedly ride in the secluded area, they are still taking on this risk of allowing any individual who is willing to pay the price to come in and take a glide.

Everyone was discussing that there is ultimately no way to distinguish between a disabeled bodied person and an abeled bodied person. I don't know if it is politically correct, but in all of my confrontations except one, as soon as I showed my state placard card as proof of disability the subject was dropped and I was told to have a nice day. Sometimes this was done in combination with the ADA/Segway paper.

Lastly, just a thought.... everyone was so concerned about getting hit or hurt by a Segway. Has anyone ever got hit or hurt by one of those jazzy's or scooters? Let me tell you it hurts like an SOB and then some... those things weigh significantly more than a Seg. I've been hit multiple times in crowded areas and have had my foot ran over. It is customary to believe that the average Glider is going to be under a certain weight and the Segway will be 70 lbs. For myself and my segway combined I still weigh less than the AVERAGE OBESSE AMERICAN that could STEP on your foot in a crowded setting. That's just a weak arguement that was started in the thread that getting run over would cause problems.

Sorry... one more blurb..... a lawyer or someone said that an individual could never push the arguement in court because a true disabled person could never handle writing the Segway? Then what does the young girl that was spoke of in the thread that it had changed her life (I have read her story somewhere before, too). I have two very young cousins with SMA (a form of MD) - all they need is something to hold themselves up and they can maneuver and stand.... but would never be able to walk a day in their lives. In my case, you wouldn't want to spend the day with me if I had to sit for more than a couple of hours in a chair and see what it would do to my muscles.

Just my 1/2 a cent....

[justME]

Hi Group,

I took a glide for about a mile and 1/2 to buy groceries. I ate at Cocoa's on the way. I am not spending any money that I don't have to spend at or for Disney. The stragest thought came to me last night while watching the fireworks from the pool. What would Walt do? When I wish upon a star, given all the futuristic movies produced by Disney, some really don't come true.

I refuse to not enjoy life or my time here. So having fun in sunny CA.

[Tarkus]

Hi Group,

I took a glide for about a mile and 1/2 to buy groceries. I ate at Cocoa's on the way. I am not spending any money that I don't have to spend at or for Disney. The stragest thought came to me last night while watching the fireworks from the pool. What would Walt do? When I wish upon a star, given all the futuristic movies produced by Disney, some really don't come true.

I refuse to not enjoy life or my time here. So having fun in sunny CA.

Good , go enjoy.

When I posted on Disneys site I never thought it would cause the stir it did, and I posted here for help at the time.

When Disneys hand is held to the fire they will relent. But their big and it takes time.

Do what you did, spend where they want your money.

Thanks for bringing this over and keep an eye out here as I post the start to any potential problem thread here.

Disneys biggest problem is an out of control ECV problem and they know it, so they don't want to deal with another device, too bad !

This doesn't help:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10655557/site/newsweek/

Able body people using wheelchairs for fun. SICK.

I hunt for them !!

Regards,
Alan

[Tarkus]

Here's a interesting tidbit:

In Walt Disney's words: "EPCOT ... will take its cue from the new ideas and new technologies that are now emerging from the creative centers of American industry. It will be a community of tomorrow that will never be completed, but will always be introducing and testing and demonstrating new materials and systems. And EPCOT will always be a showcase to the world for the ingenuity and imagination of American free enterprise."

Yet they ban the disabled on Segways.

Some more maybe.......

October 1, 1982 was a grand opening day celebration with international performing groups representing countries from all over the world with and without pavilions in World Showcase. Water was gathered from major rivers all over the world and emptied into the lagoon from ceremonial containers to mark the opening. Located at the front of the park is a plaque bearing its opening-day dedication:

To all who come to this place of Joy, Hope and Friendship—Welcome.EPCOT is inspired by Walt Disney's creative vision. Here, human achievements are celebrated through imagination, wonders of enterprise and concepts of a future that promises new and exciting benefits for all.May EPCOT Center entertain, inform and inspire and above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere.

— E. Cardon Walker, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Walt Disney Productions

Those aren't just Hippos on "The Jungle Cruise", they are Hypocrites !

[Neelix]

I'm reading that thread (up to page 7 now), and I am starting to get very angry at this "Chuck S" character.

Is it just me or does he give the same exact argument every single time he posts? "How would they know?!" "OMG HOW WOULD DISNEY KNOW?! PEOPLE WILL LIE!" "OMG SAVE THE CHILDREN IT GOES SO FAST AND HOW WOULD DISNEY KNOW IF THEY REALLY NEEDED IT?!"

[sombody]

I will donate at least $ 100.00 toward any fund used to hire an attorney that would bring influence -to help Disney rethink their position regarding Segways.

rick

email me and let me know where to send the check
I know this would only be a start-cover the first 1/2 hr

[Sal]

I'm reading that thread (up to page 7 now), and I am starting to get very angry at this "Chuck S" character.

Is it just me or does he give the same exact argument every single time he posts? "How would they know?!" "OMG HOW WOULD DISNEY KNOW?! PEOPLE WILL LIE!" "OMG SAVE THE CHILDREN IT GOES SO FAST AND HOW WOULD DISNEY KNOW IF THEY REALLY NEEDED IT?!"

Well, in Chuck's world, NO ONE should be allowed to use any mode of transportation because of potential harm, and no one should be trusted because they could lie into using said transportation.

Glad we don't live in his world.

-Sal

[ions82]

Even if there were no ban (and I had a Segway), I still wouldn't go to Disney Parks. It's just another huge, corporate, money-making pig. Ever spoken to someone that works there? However, that's just my personal opinion on the place. It is, however, ridiculous that they are used INSIDE the park but banned for use by people that actually depend on them! Are there golf carts inside those parks, too? What does a golf cart weigh? I'm guessing around 750+ lbs. What would THAT do if it ran into someone. All it takes is a shorted circuit. Forget Disney.

[Stewbonz]

I never liked going to a Disney Park. Always felt ripped off.
See what a bottle of water will cost you in there!

[Tarkus]

Damn, Where were you guys when I needed you !!

It's not about going to Disney it's about their flagrant violation of the law.

If you want to help the fight with $$$, go the www.DRAFT.cc and donate.

We are working on this and many other access issues.

We win more then we lose..

ALan

PS-Universal-Orlando is SEg friendly for us "Gimps"

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/segforlegs/mobmain.jpg

"The Clod Squad" Jim (Sailor) Leonard (sitnseg) and yours truly.

We look dangerous don't we !!!!!!

[polo_pro]

PS-Universal-Orlando is SEg friendly for us "Gimps"
What about other amusement parks? Knott's? Legoland?

One of the best protests you can organize is routing potential customers to the competitors. That's always noticed if you can successfully do this in large numbers.

Sometimes it's not enough to start a boycott...you have to give alternatives to the consumers too.

[X-man]

I believe the Disney phenom started with Steamboat Willy - the boat sank years ago when Eisner took the helm.

[Stewbonz]

Their Park is superb. A real nice place.
Just come across a little greedy these days.

[byped]

Their Park is superb. A real nice place.
Just come across a little greedy these days.


Disney has lost alot of money these years.... it funny. Look around, think about what it takes.

I can't possibly think of a way to make that happen for ~10 an hour!

It is definately a luxury item - but amazing in it's own right.

[Stewbonz]

Consider Michael Ovitz.
He was paid $140 million for 14 months of work as president at Walt Disney

[Tarkus]

What about other amusement parks? Knott's? Legoland?

One of the best protests you can organize is routing potential customers to the competitors. That's always noticed if you can successfully do this in large numbers.

Sometimes it's not enough to start a boycott...you have to give alternatives to the consumers too.

Protest is not our best method, education is.

As far as the parks you name if you would like I will put them on the list of places to contact.

This is a big country and we have a lot of parks and the like.

The guys that started DRAFT worked on the most important issues , trains, planes, buses etc. We are now working on other areas.

the single most important thing to remember is that most places listen, and therefore I don't like to protest unless given no other choice.

Follow some of the same on Draft Chat. I am about to post on progress at a Pennsylvania Park.

[Okeechobee Wind]

I AM NOT ALLOWED IN THE THEME PARKS. I can go throughout the hotel and shopping area but not the park.

Please consider helping our cause by writing Disney, and others you know. A boycot is my answer. I informed Disney that I will not spend one dime more than necessary and absolutely not on any souvenirs.

please consider emailing me at rsanders11@kc.rr.com

The only people that ever had Disney even listen are at DRAFT.

Disney has an agenda and private Segway's are not part of it.

You must know the people at DP to understand where they are coming from. Disney does not make sense in allot of their decisions and they do not care, they are Disney.
There job is to attract and manipulate millions of individuals time and pocketbooks in the name of a mouse. Trust me, since Walt and Roy died it has been all about the money. They do not care for anyone. Not even their own.
In another life I was a cast member for almost ten years. This was from 1970 to 1979. When I choose to leave WDW, it took me almost another ten years before I could return because of the BS they represent. Why do you think it is a standard phrase to call a botched job, MICKEY MOUSE.
If you ask long time residence about WDW you will get a snicker or more. In today's world ask a cast member and you may get information that you will not even believe.
Do not think that Disney is so foolish to not understand what a Segway represents and what it is best used for in their environment.
There are NO arguments from Disney that stand up. I can guarantee that. I was having them a long time before most thought of it.
I pioneered the private Segway in Fort Wilderness and went on from there. Spending from four to six months a year in Fort Wilderness gives one allot of time to forward your cause.
Leonard was the first to bring Segways into focus with the WDW people. To see Leonard gliding down a sidewalk in Celebration would stop traffic.

Disney will do what they want when they want to do it. If you do not like it get out or we will put you out. That's the Disney motto, just do not forget to leave your money before the door knob hits you .. ... ... .

My thanks to DRAFT for everything that has been done to educate individuals in modern technology, all over the world and especially in the USA.

[julesdarcy]

I am here in sunny CA at the Paradise Pier with my wife. She is at an education conference for End of Life care. I came by way of an airline that allowed me to use my segway as a scooter. I AM NOT ALLOWED IN THE THEME PARKS. I can go throughout the hotel and shopping area but not the park.

NOW HERE IS THE KICKER. Disney adminstration and security and others use Segways to get all over the property, including the theme parks. They will rent me one of their three wheelers. MONEY?

I have my handicap sticker in plain sight, I am wearing shorts with both legs in braces clearly showing, and I even offered to demonstrate my limited walking ablility. (I had Charcot Merie Tooth, CMT as a child) I can only walk about 1/10 of a mile before needing to sit. If I do that throughout the day I cannot move the next day.

Please consider helping our cause by writing Disney, and others you know. A boycot is my answer. I informed Disney that I will not spend one dime more than necessary and absolutely not on any souvenirs.

please consider emailing me at rsanders11@kc.rr.com


As we say in Ireland, the feckin eejits. If you have a disabled sticker on your segway and they refused to let you in, you could get the cops involved. I'm sure Disney, or to be more precise, the loser who wouldn't let you in, would back down then. It depends on how strongly you feel about it.

[Okeechobee Wind]

As we say in Ireland, the feckin eejits. If you have a disabled sticker on your segway and they refused to let you in, you could get the cops involved. I'm sure Disney, or to be more precise, the loser who wouldn't let you in, would back down then. It depends on how strongly you feel about it.

Good thought but it does not work that way.
There is no absolute to the ADA. Disney says they feel the operation of a private PT would put visitors and cast members in harms way. Disney mandates require that all cast members who utilize a PT during working hours receive a special hands on course with constant improvements and mental situations that may arise.
When and if you attempt to enter a theme park on a Segway you will be detained until a supervisor or security supervisor is present to explain the situation to you. It is futile to discuss entry. They do and will offer you free use of their disability mobility device while visiting their property (theme park).
This alone gets them off the hook with the ADA.
It is their way or no way period.
I can tell you a number of stories. There was the time at Fort Wilderness when a Security Officer in a marked WDW security car slid to a stop on an angle in front of me as if he where in a felonious pursuit. I almost landed on the hood. He was a former Orange County Sheriff working holiday detail. When I asked for his name and badge number and explained I use my Segway as a disability mobility device and he almost injured me, the response was to squeal the tires and flee into the night. Disney is a place of contradiction.

[julesdarcy]

That's interesting. I still don't think they should have the right to take away your mobility device and offer you an alternative. You wouldn't see a person in a wheelchair being offered an alternative wheelchair would you?

The security officer incident is hilarious. He must have thought he was in a movie. I'm surprised he didn't pull a gun and throw you on the ground!

[sombody]

I live in SoCal -10 mi from D-land- I havent been there in 25 years. I am not disabled . I am happy to donate to draft. I hope some of the money is going toward legal fees . ( hired gun ) Education, boycotts and protest only go so far.

Tarkus - The Attorney you hire will help with the education process

Rick

I am fortunatly/unfortunatly not an attorney but I am very sympathetic to this issue .

[Tarkus]

I live in SoCal -10 mi from D-land- I havent been there in 25 years. I am not disabled . I am happy to donate to draft. I hope some of the money is going toward legal fees . ( hired gun ) Education, boycotts and protest only go so far.

Tarkus - The Attorney you hire will help with the education process

Rick

I am fortunatly/unfortunatly not an attorney but I am very sympathetic to this issue .

It will be thru the work of DRAFT, I never my said Attorney.(don't want my AOL !)

There are laws already in place and a possible change coming that will tie Disneys. hands.

As I've said , it will take time but they will relent.

Thanks to all,
Alan

[Tarkus]

The only people that ever had Disney even listen are at DRAFT.

Disney has an agenda and private Segway's are not part of it.

You must know the people at DP to understand where they are coming from. Disney does not make sense in allot of their decisions and they do not care, they are Disney.
There job is to attract and manipulate millions of individuals time and pocketbooks in the name of a mouse. Trust me, since Walt and Roy died it has been all about the money. They do not care for anyone. Not even their own.
In another life I was a cast member for almost ten years. This was from 1970 to 1979. When I choose to leave WDW, it took me almost another ten years before I could return because of the BS they represent. Why do you think it is a standard phrase to call a botched job, MICKEY MOUSE.
If you ask long time residence about WDW you will get a snicker or more. In today's world ask a cast member and you may get information that you will not even believe.
Do not think that Disney is so foolish to not understand what a Segway represents and what it is best used for in their environment.
There are NO arguments from Disney that stand up. I can guarantee that. I was having them a long time before most thought of it.
I pioneered the private Segway in Fort Wilderness and went on from there. Spending from four to six months a year in Fort Wilderness gives one allot of time to forward your cause.
Leonard was the first to bring Segways into focus with the WDW people. To see Leonard gliding down a sidewalk in Celebration would stop traffic.

Disney will do what they want when they want to do it. If you do not like it get out or we will put you out. That's the Disney motto, just do not forget to leave your money before the door knob hits you .. ... ... .

My thanks to DRAFT for everything that has been done to educate individuals in modern technology, all over the world and especially in the USA.

Sorry I didn't remember your screen name. I remember you telling me at The Ft. Wilderness thing, thanks.

As far as Disney and interns.... I can also tell some stories about family members that worked that route.

Ever notice how bad Disney Headlines vanish fast from Orlando papers.
Or how the thread I posted on their site used to show up Googled but now it's gone ?

Or how the Orlando Media and Orange Co. sheriff look the other way when its the mouse!

Here's a Headline:

DISNEY RIDES IN ORLANDO KILL MORE PEOPLE THAN SEGWAYS NATION WIDE IN 2006.

Think we will ever see it?

Thanks Again for your groundbreaking work.

Alan

[Mr. Protocol]

Thank you, Okeechobee Wind. You are the first person to answer the question I asked in another thread: how can Disney get away with banning Segways? Despite people saying portentious things like "Just because you don't see it doesn't mean nothing's happening", no one bothered to give the simple answer you gave: by offering THEIR OWN assist devices, they are off the hook with the ADA.

THAT was what I wanted to know: how they were getting away with it. Now I know, and thank you!

Frankly, all the rest of it sounds like back-room politics. Which it is. Not ineffective, but not very informative.

[polo_pro]

Thank you, Okeechobee Wind. You are the first person to answer the question I asked in another thread: how can Disney get away with banning Segways? Despite people saying portentious things like "Just because you don't see it doesn't mean nothing's happening", no one bothered to give the simple answer you gave: by offering THEIR OWN assist devices, they are off the hook with the ADA.

THAT was what I wanted to know: how they were getting away with it. Now I know, and thank you!

Frankly, all the rest of it sounds like back-room politics. Which it is. Not ineffective, but not very informative.
There must be days when they run out of assist devices due to a high number of disabled visitors. I wonder what happens if you show up at the gate with your segway (and a ticket to get in) on that day?

They probably still wouldn't let you use your own i2 segway and would force you to use one of their i167 segways taken from their tour! 8^) 8^) 8^)

[Tarkus]

There must be days when they run out of assist devices due to a high number of disabled visitors. I wonder what happens if you show up at the gate with your segway (and a ticket to get in) on that day?

They probably still wouldn't let you use your own i2 segway and would force you to use one of their i167 segways taken from their tour! 8^) 8^) 8^)

Trust me, I can line up Gimps that have been asked to leave from here to key west.

They will relent.

Alan