NTSB or FAA Regulation about lions

[Exclusive Estates]

I look through the sites but couldn't find any papers regarding the amount/size requirements to be able to take them aboard a plane, they did have a fire regarding experimental lions pack for a car, it was 6 feet of batteries encased in fiberglass shell, but no other notices, there has to be a size/weight limit on how big a lion is before the reject it being on the plane, and just because they say you cant dosnt make it so, the NTSB or FAA has to make the policy. all computers have 1-3 of these batteries some are quite large so that the person can use it for 12+ hours during a flight.. so does anyone have a link? if not then they have to let it on as a mobility device even with lions batteries.

[Red Seg]

This might be what (or at least close to) regulations we are dealing with...

Transportation of Lithium Batteries (http://hazmat.dot.gov/regs/notices/nprm/2002_11989.htm)

[KSagal]

I look through the sites but couldn't find any papers regarding the amount/size requirements to be able to take them aboard a plane, they did have a fire regarding experimental lions pack for a car, it was 6 feet of batteries encased in fiberglass shell, but no other notices, there has to be a size/weight limit on how big a lion is before the reject it being on the plane, and just because they say you cant dosnt make it so, the NTSB or FAA has to make the policy. all computers have 1-3 of these batteries some are quite large so that the person can use it for 12+ hours during a flight.. so does anyone have a link? if not then they have to let it on as a mobility device even with lions batteries.


Considering the fact that not flying or even shipping the batteries except under excruciatingly complex conditions is a major inconvenience and negative impact on sales and marketing, I do not think the manufacturer would have made the comment without reason.

Since they have a legal department, and a horse in the race, I will heed their advise, and offer what effort I can to help fix this situation, rather than rely on the search techniques that may or may not be sufficient...

We shall see...

[fredkap]

From Segway Inc's web site:

Q. Can I travel with lithium-ion batteries?
You can ship your lithium-ion battery-equipped machine anywhere by ground transportation. However, our lithium-ion batteries are not appropriate to be shipped by air at this time (including airline travel).

http://www.segway.com/segway/lithium_ion.html

Thus as I have been told, regardless of whether your use of a Segway is for mobility impairment or not, it is a felony to take a Saphion lithium ion onto an airplane at this time. Shipping batteries unattached to a Segway base by ground transportation requires haz-mat labeling.

Fred

[Desert_Seg]

....
Shipping batteries unattached to a Segway base by ground transportation requires haz-mat labeling.

Fred

Fred,

To be correct, all shipments of LIon batteries, whether or not attached to a Segway, require haz-mat labeling.

So, ANYTIME you ship a LIon you MUST include the haz-mat labeling AND the battery MSDS.

Steven

[Exclusive Estates]

these are the regulations that I know of, as far as I can tell you can ship the batteries by air, but not on a passenger plane, only a cargo only filght if the above a certain level of lithium, does anyone have the specks on the lithium batteries?

http://www.ultralifebatteries.com/documents/whitepapers/Ultralife_Batteries_Lithium_Battery_Transportation _Regulations.pdf

whether segay has a dog in the fight or not, doesnt compleatly look at every loop hole... I have shiped thousands of items by cargo flights, they usally take a day longer for pickup, so the batteries could be shiped 1-2 day prior, and picked up at the cargo terminal upon arrival.

[Stan671]

whether segway has a dog in the fight or not, doesnt compleatly look at every loop holeI feel confident that the Segway company has thoroughly examined the rules from every angle to figure out what is required in the shipping of thier Lithium Ion batteries. It is in Segway's best interest to do so.

At the last SegwayFest in Washington, DC, we asked the engineers about the regulations and the amount of Lithium and/or "equivelent Lithium" in the Segway batteries were told that they are way over the limit and that there was no way to make them a little smaller and get in under the rules.

My understanding of the rules for air travel is as follows:

1. NEVER, EVER allowed on a passenger aircraft under any circumstances!!!

2. When the batteries are attached to the Segway HT, then the entire assembly (which may be just the platform with attached batteries) can be shipped via AIR CARGO ONLY. And I also believe that there is no HazMat cert needed by the shipper. This is how Segway factory and Segway dealers can air ship the entire unit in the original box.

2. Lithium-Ion batteries alone and not attached to the Segway must be shipped ground transportation and only by a HazMat certified shipper. When I bought my Li-Ion batteries from Jared in Ohio, they had to be drop shipped from Segway in NH because Jared was not certified.

[Exclusive Estates]

thanks Stan that's what I made out of the rules also, air cargo is viable option on a extended vacation or to segfest

[Desert_Seg]

...My understanding of the rules for air travel is as follows:...

[COLOR=navy]2. Lithium-Ion batteries alone and not attached to the Segway must be shipped ground transportation and only by a HazMat certified shipper. When I bought my Li-Ion batteries from Jared in Ohio, they had to be drop shipped from Segway in NH because Jared was not certified.

Stan,

One correction, Li-Ion's can be shipped by air cargo even when they are not attached. Else how could we get our spare baterries? :-)

However, it is MUCH cheaper to go by ground, especially with HazMat.

Steven

[DaKine]

Any news about aftermarket batteries for air travel?

[quade]

Sure would be a lot easier if there was a nationwide Segway rental system.

Obviously the market today can't support this, but imagine just being able to pick up a Segway at your destination as easily as you pick up a rental car now.

[scotty1024]

The reason I suspect Segway isn't being more out front on this issue is something I'm growing increasingly concerned about with my own i2: battery damage.

You can say what you want about battery chemistry safety but the bottom line is that the Segway batteries have 428 watt hours of energy in them. An average laptop battery has 45 watt hours. You've seen the photos of a laptop battery going up in flames, now image how much more damage nearly 10 times the energy could do.

If one of the cells becomes physically damaged by shock the damage very likely won't be visible. But the damage could result in a catastrophic mechanical failure that results in the 428 watt hours being dumped in a very short period of time creating a hot ignition source capable of starting fires in even otherwise flame resistant materials.

After seeing how embarrassing the sidewalks are around here I can easily see how some batteries are dying a premature death due to shock induced damage. As I run my mind over the stresses a damaged battery would be subjected to in a passenger plane's cargo compartment during take off I can see how Segway just wouldn't want to go there.

All I can see for it is to buy another set. So my question is: can I order a set of batteries from Segway to be picked up at SegwayFest 2008??? And will there be a UPS table setup there to handle shipping them out at the end of the festival?

[jgbackes]

The Segway batteries are not prone to runaway heating. They do not use the Lithium cobalt chemistry that laptops do. Lithium iron phosphate is used instead, there are some very cool videos at the Valance site showing bullet punctures of both types.