Interesting parallelisms

[Rockyracoon]

Though I rarely posted on that_other_site, when I did so it was usually with very factual information. So please foregive my speculation on my first posting to this forum, but I was struck by the parallelisms between what Dr. Steven Greer of the Disclosure Project (okay, so I immediately lose credibility with that source) stated on a recent interview ... and Mr. Kamen's background.

Greer stated (http://www.netro.ca/asxfiles/disclosure/coasttocoast1_31_2003.asx) that he and two members of his foundation attended a test by an inventor claiming to have a device that generated electricity through the use of "zero point energy". He either stated or implied that:

The meeting with the inventor was in New Hampshire
The inventor has many times shown himself to be a genuine genius
Has been doing serious invention since he was a very young man
He has had a passion for electricity since age 7, inventing since the age of 10
Has been working on the project for seven years
It generates free electricity that can be used to desalinate or clean water in 3rd world countries
It is less than 20 lbs.
Outputs 120volts, 60 hz and several hundred watts.

Other than the source of power, it sounds so similar to Mr. Kamen's stirling. Wouldn't it be interesting if Dean has feinted with the stirling only to surprise us with something different?

Okay, I promise ... no more speculation. Mea culpa.

[JaredHT]

Rocky,

When you quote Dr. Greer, it suggests to me some of your other interests.

Just let me say, i've talk to a few fellows in that field (i.e. Bob Lazar, Dr. Greer, S. Freedmen, etc) and Dr. Greer, although a little idealistic, is a stand up guy. He's generally on the level, so I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was refering to Mr. Kamen.

Peace,

Jared HT

[nocanfly]

I think the main and crucial difference is that Kamen works within the law of physics and actually delivers real products that help real people. Greer on the other hand is a charlatan and I'm being generous with my description.

[JaredHT]

nocanfly,

although I highly doubt that greer has the 'know'how' to create much himself, I wouldn't call him a charlatan. What do you have against him??

Peace,

Jared HT

[BruceWright]

Ayayaya...

I think Scotty said it best:

"You canna change the laws of physics!"


Tom Bearden and his ufo-chasing apologist Greer (an MD?) are bilking investors and running from the law.

Besides that, Greer is probably insane. He's all over the map, chasing free energy and anti-gravity and ufo's and government cover-ups and alien weapons of mass destruction.


I have a free-energy device that's at least as good as theirs.

It's an invisible alien monkey that sits on my shoulder. He turns a crank so fast that it goes back in time. The problem is, he keeps going back in time so fast that I can never get him to actually power a lightbulb. :-(

But now I'm fearing for my life, because the oil companies and the aliens are working in concert to keep me from releasing my plan of free energy to the world!

I just need a few hundred thousand dollars in donations to work out the couple of bugs in the system. I would like to say that I could CERTAINLY have a working model ready for mass-distribution in just six months. It might be slightly longer... you never know, there might be unforseen difficulties. But absolutely by the end of the year or maybe the beginning of 2006, or 2010 at the very outside, or shortly thereafter....

THEN we'll not have to worry about power ever again!



In case you're interested, I can point you to a list of a hundred of these machines, each one producing nothing but bilked investors and a runaway inventor.

http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html

This stuff is snake oil. It's the oldest scam in the world.

If you don't understand the Second Law of Thermodynamics, I'll explain it for you: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Ask Stephen Hawking, perhaps the most brilliant mind on the planet, and he'll tell you, if free energy existed, entropy would be eliminated and time would flow in reverse.

Since we have no evidence for "effect" preceeding "cause" anywhere in the universe, I think I'm safe in assuming that "Dr." Greer will not be the first to invent it.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[JaredHT]

quote:Tom Bearden and his ufo-chasing apologist Greer (an MD?) are bilking investors and running from the law.


wow, i did not know this! interesting, i'm going to have to look more info up on this matter. However, you have to admit that the 'Disclosure' conference was pretty cool.

I tell ya what, about a year and a half ago i got some help on a book i was writing by BOB LAZAR. Man, you want to hear some good stories, lol, talk to him!!

Peace, and....well UFO's apparently,

Jared HT

[BruceWright]

Here's a great site about the history of perpetual motion machines, and why none of them ever work.

From the site:


"Usually PMM proposers have no reason or even a clue where conventional physics might be wrong. They just hope that it will be wrong in such a way as to make their pet invention work. They are like the
Hermetic philosophers and alchemists of old, who thought that if one were pure of spirit and purpose, one could acieve power over nature's laws, even the power to bend them to one's will.

Some proposals are simple enough to build in the laboratory. Yet their inventors refuse suggestions that they build and test them. Some proposals depend on a key assumption which could be easily isolated and
tested in the laboratory. Yet they won't and don't. They say, "The test wouldn't be conclusive, for there are too many problems with friction, choice of materials, precision machining, etc."

Then there are those who claim they have actually built a PMM which puts out more power than required at its input. The skeptic suggests that they divert some of the output power to drive the input, with
power left over for other things, thereby convincing everyone. They say they can't do that for the output power is in "a different form" from that required by the input, or some other reason. Always an excuse,
always an "out".

Some tell me they actually built a device which clearly violated some law of physics. I offer to test it. Then they tell me it didn't work well enough to suit them, so they already dismantled it in order to make an
improved model. Drat! "



The Museum of Unworkable Devices

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[GyroGo]

It does appear that Kamen is the inspiration for this particular Greer delusion, though can't imagine that Kamen would have anything to do with this crackpot. It gave me visions of hooking up an efficient solar dish to the improved Stirling and, while not violating any laws of physics, getting pretty cheap energy.



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StirlingInfo (www.StirlingInfo.com) StirlingChat (www.StirlingChat.com)

[Casey]

Gary, I think you can do better than cheap energy with that setup. As sunlight is completely free you would have free energy with only the cost of manufacturing the lens or dish used to concentrate the heat on the "hot" end of the Stirling.

I have envisioned this setup as well as inserting the "hot" end of a Stirling into a factory smokestack to capture the lost heat. Also hot springs or any other unused source of lost heat would do the trick. The wasted heat from volcanos etc would be a huge source of Stirling generated power.

[BruceWright]

Riding my Segway past Psychic Eye bookstore in Los Angeles, I was struck by a particularly delicious fantasy.

If someone were to come out and marvel "What is that?!!?" I would say something like this:

"It's the Segway Human Transporter. A Psychic Trance-channeler in New Hampshire was contacted by a spirit guide and told that humans must stop polluting the planet. Over a three-week period, the channeler went into a trance and using automatic writing, drew the plans in detail of this wonderful technology. I think the Intelligent Greys were the souls who brought it to us."

Then the person would say "Woah, really!"

I would then say "No, I'm lying. It was hundreds of scientists and engineers and inventors applying the laws of physics as we know them."


Hehehehe... Mean, I know.

Hey, I didn't actually DO it!

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[GyroGo]

quote:Originally posted by Casey

Gary, I think you can do better than cheap energy with that setup. As sunlight is completely free you would have free energy with only the cost of manufacturing the lens or dish used to concentrate the heat on the "hot" end of the Stirling.

I have envisioned this setup as well as inserting the "hot" end of a Stirling into a factory smokestack to capture the lost heat. Also hot springs or any other unused source of lost heat would do the trick. The wasted heat from volcanos etc would be a huge source of Stirling generated power.

Yeah, Casey. But of course we all know that nothing that involves human time and energy is free, even after you pay off the machine. We are talking economics here, because in the cost of physics, solar energy is still energy into the system and of course not free in the accounting of physics (how am I doing for a layman?)

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[Casey]

Maybe I should have said the energy to run the Stirling would be free. Of course with human nature what it is there would be the cost of labor to account for.

The solar panel on my house receives free sunshine, but the cost of the system including an 84 gallon water heater with electric backup was 1400 dollars 20 years ago installed. So the cost of heating that water was 1400X20 or $70 a year until the heater tank began leaking and got replaced with an all electric one. I kept the circuit breaker to the water heater turned off, so there was no electric use except to run a 1/100th horsepower circulating pump.

Even at that, $70 a year was far cheaper than having heated the water by electricity.